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Re: [gaykingdom] Re: gay marrige

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  • datyl1@aol.com
    I m another one who paid money in and would like to know status of passports - Daniel Tyler ************************************** See what s free at
    Message 1 of 12 , Jun 18, 2007
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      I'm another one who paid money in and would like to know status of passports - Daniel Tyler



      See what's free at AOL.com.
    • datyl1@aol.com
      Jon - If you hear any updates, could you let me know also? Thanks, Daniel Tyler, datyl1@aol.com ************************************** See what s free at
      Message 2 of 12 , Jun 18, 2007
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        Jon - If you hear any updates, could you let me know also?   Thanks, Daniel Tyler, datyl1@...



        See what's free at AOL.com.
      • William J. Freeman
        Which highlights how spurious our positions have become on several issues. Passports ought to issue. The printer was paid to print them, the artwork was
        Message 3 of 12 , Jun 19, 2007
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          Which highlights how spurious our positions have become on several issues.

          Passports ought to issue. The printer was paid to print them, the artwork was
          approved and edited and edited again prior to reaching a stage of readiness, then a secession
          which was not a planned event altered the terrain.

          So at a minimum we have to agree on some basic reorganization structure for the government before
          we can pursue any "official" acts. Otherwise, we are active players in the suicide of this early misadventure.

          I take it by your tone that you are ready to help construct new structures and develop a positive position for our entity. I think there were several of us that wanted to see this project through, and that
          we still collectively share a dream - and a belief that the dream can find roots in the here and now.
          >
          > From: "jon_matlick" <jon_matlick@...>
          > Date: 2007/06/18 Mon AM 11:52:48 EST
          > To: gaykingdom@yahoogroups.com
          > Subject: [gaykingdom] Re: gay marrige
          >
          > Ok...so it has now been over half a year since you said
          > "...In the next 60 days, something substantive will be sent out to the
          > group..."
          > We're still waiting.
          > And what about passports?
          > Granted they would be worthless for travel as they represent no
          > country, but those of us who paid good money for them ought to at
          > least actually get one to have of a souvenir of this ....don't you
          > think, or do you like our money too much to spend it on what it was
          > paid for?
          > Curious minds want to know...
          >
          > --- In gaykingdom@yahoogroups.com, Enrique J Pérez <ejp13@...> wrote:
          > >
          >
          > > >
          > > >
          > > Don't write our group as of yet. The Governing Council is alive and
          > > well working diligently to reorganize and continue the effort in a more
          > > realistic and constructive fashion. Meaningful things require effort,
          > > thought, and time to create and execute.
          > >
          > > After we seceded and separated ourselves from Dale (and Lochlan) and
          > his
          > > Kingdom, we have had little to no contact. We are aware of his modern
          > > and artistically pleasing website.
          > >
          > > In the next 60 days, something substantive will be sent out to the
          > group.
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > Enrique P.
          > > Governing Council
          > >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > Yahoo! Groups Links
          >
          >
          >
          >
        • William J. Freeman
          The blackest of pots and kettles aside, it is singular that you might be the one stating such a proposition publicly. Notwithstanding your distancing yourself
          Message 4 of 12 , Jun 19, 2007
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            The blackest of pots and kettles aside, it is singular that you might be the one stating such a proposition publicly. Notwithstanding your distancing yourself from your prior office, and your stated unwillingness to partcipate in anything "gay kingdom", for you now to demand action of that entity and in a capacity of which you have particular insider knowledge shakes my own faith in your integrity or motive.

            I am in San Francisco for pride. I have been actively engaging elders in our gay community, telling them of our work and seeking their guidance. That is the reason I have traveled from Alabama to be here now. My work here has been highly directed in this way.

            I believe that you, as the LP of the former kingdom, and absent any release from your obligation by the court, and your deference to your ward's wishes over the best interest of the kingdom have all worked together, in my opinion, to place upon you the same responsibility I work under now. I do not believe HIM could, under any lawful mechanism, dismiss you as his conservator and guardian. Certainly only your acquiescence to his will would have such an effect, and only then if you were discharged from your duties in the same manner you obtained them - which you were not.

            My position as LC of the Kingdom presents similar general problems, as I have an allegiance now to the Unified Gay Tribe which is the governed body previously known as the gay kingdom. My own view is that the elected parliament, having seceeded from the gay kingdom, is the entity which must now issue the processed passports. My authority to do so was protected under the secession document.
            However, many other parts of the government suffered disproportionately from the upset our demented monarch caused by his concurrence in and deference to your appointment only later to be met with his resistance and illegal dismissal, which you chose rationally to embrace.

            I have not appointed another LP because in my opinion HIM is literally a king without country or import. His goal, as it was agreed by the former government officials, was to capitalize without any controls on the gay world's desire that the kingdom might prosper. Our goal was never to build a gay resort on an island for personal pecuniary gain - but to establish an order of government by which our tribe could obtain that which it has always had but never enjoyed - autonomous rule and control over our own society, with a demand for the respect of basic human rights and other civil rights of LGBTi peoples worldwide who would be perceived as citizens of the gay tribe.

            Before passports issue, I think it is critical that the existing parliament be convened, or failing that that a new parliament be raised from our gay elders across the globe. Once both legislative and judicial authority are restored by operative institutions in these capacities, some mechanism to effect executive order within the kingdom can be wrought.

            How this should best be accomplished is NOT an issue solely for the judiciary or the parliament, but is an undertaking which must be shared of the two. If the current parliament is unable or unwilling to reconstitute itself for these purposes, perhaps the judiciary has little choice but to state the obvious and seek reconciliation. Since both Enrique Perez and I are living together for the next two weeks, this has and will continue to be a focus of our work. My expectation is that the parliament will call a general election to replace members who have abandoned their obligation for whatever reason, but again, it is not for me as judiciary to mandate the electoral process. It is a matter for the parliament to regulate on its own if it is able to do so.

            In the early exuberance of our kingdom, it was also easier to both reach consensus and to raise the resources required for secure global election of the first elected gay parliament. Those resources must also be redeveloped for our present work. This is a considerable undertaking beyond the capacity of the existing leadership to "snap their fingers and create." I am reluctant to discuss current policy in this forum because of our history which as we both know it, was infiltrated with individuals who were counter-intelligence operatives keen to obstruct our deployment of the world's first gay government, but think this limited discourse about the work of the past many many months sufficient to inform most that reorganization is continuing and that elections shall occur when the original globally-elected gay parliament expires by operation of law, or the existing parliament fails to protect itself as an institution to such a degree as to require action from the judiciary. This point has not, in my judgment, arisen, and some basic notions of nation building mandate that our nation cannot walk before it stands, and it cannot yet stand of its own.

            This reduces to a position in which citizens of the tribe will either trust their elected officials and their judiciary or through political means seek further change in the existing system. Certainly moving forward is critical to our purpose, but learning from the mistakes of our past may be even more important to our future success. For those of us tormented that we must endure a period of resolution and reconstruction before we can stand, your words are wise and have merit - but from an officer of the tribe who has not been as active in the process as I would have hoped, the criticism is a bit hypocritical at best. You were expressly invited to the summit here in San Francisco, and your response to me was that I must be crazy attended gay pride in San Francisco. You said this, presumably knowing that the elders of our community are here, and in order to achieve their insight we needed to be here.

            For those interested in our work, or to casually discuss our progress, I have been routinely speaking with elders at Twin Peaks, and actively seeking out those that will be found. I do not believe finding Bill Freeman (the bearded guy from Alabama) in San Francisco given this information is beyond anyone's capacity. Joe Grande will be joining Enrique Perez and I on Friday and we will all be present at the Gay Pride parade.

            I am pleased your interest in the movement has been rekindled, and look forward to our work gaining momentum, but we cannot resort to leadership devolving into two or three person's hands again. Our work is important and it must continue unabated.

            -Bill Freeman, Lord Chancellor
            Unified Gay Tribe
            >
            > From: Jon Matlick <jon_matlick@...>
            > Date: 2007/06/19 Tue AM 06:32:06 EST
            > To: gaykingdom@yahoogroups.com
            > Subject: Re: [gaykingdom] Re: gay marrige
            >
            > It has been just short of two years since the secession and since then the "governing council" has been for the most part incommunicado. Don't you think that is sufficient time for "basic reorganization". Nobody is asking for miracles, but a "government" that does not in any way communicate with its constituency does not instill any confidence. A not so great sovereign once said that "nothing is getting done but a lot of talk" (or something to that effect) and much as I dislike agreeing with him, in this case, he was partially correct. I say partially, because we haven't even heard the "governing council" talk, let alone act.
            >
            >
            >
            > "William J. Freeman" <wjf@...> wrote: Which highlights how spurious our positions have become on several issues.
            >
            > Passports ought to issue. The printer was paid to print them, the artwork was
            > approved and edited and edited again prior to reaching a stage of readiness, then a secession
            > which was not a planned event altered the terrain.
            >
            > So at a minimum we have to agree on some basic reorganization structure for the government before
            > we can pursue any "official" acts. Otherwise, we are active players in the suicide of this early misadventure.
            >
            > I take it by your tone that you are ready to help construct new structures and develop a positive position for our entity. I think there were several of us that wanted to see this project through, and that
            > we still collectively share a dream - and a belief that the dream can find roots in the here and now.
            > >
            > > From: "jon_matlick" <jon_matlick@...>
            > > Date: 2007/06/18 Mon AM 11:52:48 EST
            > > To: gaykingdom@yahoogroups.com
            > > Subject: [gaykingdom] Re: gay marrige
            > >
            > > Ok...so it has now been over half a year since you said
            > > "...In the next 60 days, something substantive will be sent out to the
            > > group..."
            > > We're still waiting.
            > > And what about passports?
            > > Granted they would be worthless for travel as they represent no
            > > country, but those of us who paid good money for them ought to at
            > > least actually get one to have of a souvenir of this ....don't you
            > > think, or do you like our money too much to spend it on what it was
            > > paid for?
            > > Curious minds want to know...
            > >
            > > --- In gaykingdom@yahoogroups.com, Enrique J Pérez <ejp13@...> wrote:
            > > >
            > >
            > > > >
            > > > >
            > > > Don't write our group as of yet. The Governing Council is alive and
            > > > well working diligently to reorganize and continue the effort in a more
            > > > realistic and constructive fashion. Meaningful things require effort,
            > > > thought, and time to create and execute.
            > > >
            > > > After we seceded and separated ourselves from Dale (and Lochlan) and
            > > his
            > > > Kingdom, we have had little to no contact. We are aware of his modern
            > > > and artistically pleasing website.
            > > >
            > > > In the next 60 days, something substantive will be sent out to the
            > > group.
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > > Enrique P.
            > > > Governing Council
            > > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > Yahoo! Groups Links
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > ---------------------------------
            > Looking for a deal? Find great prices on flights and hotels with Yahoo! FareChase.
            >
          • Larry Bulechek
            Is this still going on? Its been years....either build the country or let it go. ... From: gaykingdom@yahoogroups.com [mailto:gaykingdom@yahoogroups.com] On
            Message 5 of 12 , Aug 19, 2007
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              Message
              Is this still going on?   Its been years....either build the country or let it go.
               
              -----Original Message-----
              From: gaykingdom@yahoogroups.com [mailto:gaykingdom@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of jon_matlick
              Sent: Sunday, August 19, 2007 5:20 PM
              To: gaykingdom@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: [gaykingdom] Re: gay marrige

              Still no word.
              I rest my case.

              --- In gaykingdom@yahoogro ups.com, Jon Matlick <jon_matlick@ ...> wrote:
              >
              > Nice rhetoric. I
              >
              > Tthat being said, it is not and never was my intention to engage in
              a "pissing contest" with you or anyone else. I have said my piece and
              will not continue this discussion.
              >
              > The elected - not appointed - officials, if they do indeed even
              exist, might take note of this exchange and choose to be more diligent
              in keeping their constituency informed. The people can than decide
              based on their responses or lack of responses whether or not any
              confidence should be placed in their commitment and or abilities to do
              what they were elected to do. So far I would have to give them a vote
              of "No Confidence"
              >

            • Jerry Durand
              ... Build it before the rising oceans flood it? Could be a new news angle, Entire Country Under Water! -- Jerry Durand, Durand Interstellar, Inc.
              Message 6 of 12 , Aug 20, 2007
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                At 06:43 PM 8/19/2007, Larry Bulechek wrote:
                Is this still going on?   Its been years....either build the country or let it go.

                Build it before the rising oceans flood it?  Could be a new news angle, "Entire Country Under Water!"



                --
                Jerry Durand, Durand Interstellar, Inc.  www.interstellar.com
                tel: +1 408 356-3886, USA toll free: 1 866 356-3886
                Skype:  jerrydurand
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