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Re: [gaykingdom] Re: a gay nation, another point....

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  • ridgeet roy
    Cant we start with from a small town or city ? Donald Kirby wrote: Not only is the problem momentum, but aversion to real action. No
    Message 1 of 8 , Jan 19, 2006
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      Cant we start with from a small town or city ?

      Donald Kirby <kndmgck@...> wrote:
      Not only is the problem momentum, but aversion to real action. No land is avalible unless taken; and no political bodie willingly gives up any power, be it people, land or otherwise. The only way to achieve and maintain a seperate nation for a homeland is if people are willing to fight for it. Any group that is oppressed cannot achieve freedom until they are willing to shed blood-not just theirs but that of others as well, Until the GLBT community is ready to do as the founding fathers of  almost every other nation on earth did no "GLBT Homeland" will ever exist. WE-as a whole- can whine and pout and cry and try to use courts and polititians(most of which are corrupt or imbeciles) and achieve nothing- or WE can pick a spot, settle there, and fight for what we want. History has shown that such things have one price: blood. Ours and theirs. Even the followers of the Blessed Ghandi shed their own blood. But we who speak of a gay homeland don't want a homeland bad enough to such a thing. It might muss our hair.
          Does this sound a little militaristic? It should. It is reality, it is history, it is the Truth.

      Viktor Zimmermann <viktor.zimmermann@...> wrote:
      Steff,

      you rise a topic which probably many wanted to stir but never dared.
      The very idea of a queer nation is much older than is generally
      believed, and there were always less or more active phases in the
      development of this idea. There are many conceptions existing: from "I
      hate straights" to "Gay Parallel Republic" and of course the one-man
      show of Mr. Anderson. Search for "Queer nationalism" on Google and you
      will certainly find some interesting articles.

      Well, to answer your question - I must tell you, that most actors in
      the gay nationalism movement seem somewhat uncertain about what to do
      next now. You see, the idea is that much high-flown that most people
      are very euphoric in the first days/weeks, but they let their support
      drop when some real things have to be done - e.g. signing of official
      documents for registration, paying membership dues or simply
      participating in some tiresome debates. Whenever something real must
      be done, we loose faith and hide in corners, waiting for somebody else
      making the next step.

      Most of us seem unable to overcome past differences and are trapped in
      our ego-centrism. Even if history has proved that our opponents behold
      right, we cannot make a step towards them and acknowledge our
      misjudgment. It's not the "us against them" matter, fellows: it's
      about the ability to accept differences of political views. If we
      could find a way to communicate to eachother directly and not through
      our lawyers, it would be a small, but important progress.

      However, this movement is certainly not dead. Whereas I suppose that
      the remains of Kingdom's government are also planning some re-
      organization, it's not the only place in the world to discuss the gay
      self-determination. You might find it interesting to peer into the
      "Gay Homeland" discussion group as well:

      http://forum.gayhomeland.org

      There we are discussing some aspects of gay nationalism as such, now
      independently from the republican/monarchist mindstate. The forum is
      open to anybody intersted in the gay life and is not strictly bound to
      only republican supporters.

      I hope that this message will be not understood as an unfriendly
      attempt to draw subscribers of this group into our own forum. It's
      just a hand, stretched out to this group and all actively interested
      in the discussion, inclusively the moderators/government.

      We must recognize that all previous efforts obviously HAVE failed and
      we are in need of a serious discussion before we start a next try.
      What do we want to achieve at the long-term, what can we achieve
      within the next few years? It obviously does NOT suffice to "declare
      independency" and choose an island on the map to be regarded as our
      property.

      Come back to Earth, buddies, leave the sulling corner and let's talk
      about the enterprise like grown-ups.

      Viktor Zimmermann







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    • someonenotfamous
      Donald, blood does not have to be shed, the Coral Sea Islands were chosen by the Gay activists because they are an uninhabited external territory/colony of
      Message 2 of 8 , Jan 19, 2006
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        Donald, blood does not have to be shed, the Coral Sea Islands were
        chosen by the Gay activists because they are an uninhabited external
        territory/colony of Australia. This means under international law
        and the Charter of the United Nations and the Constituion of
        Australia as an External Overseas Territory the UN Law of "All
        external Territories have a right to self government and self
        determination" applies. The Coral Sea Islands as a territory has
        the same legal standing in the world as say Gibralter does to
        England or Tahiti does to France and under International law must be
        allowed to Self determine, it has its own United Nations country
        code of CR and is intitled to its own top level domain if it becomes
        inhapited. So the Aussies gays and lesbians who raised the rainbow
        flaf there were certainly onto something

        Sally

        --- In gaykingdom@yahoogroups.com, Donald Kirby <kndmgck@y...> wrote:
        >
        > Not only is the problem momentum, but aversion to real action. No
        land is avalible unless taken; and no political bodie willingly
        gives up any power, be it people, land or otherwise. The only way
        to achieve and maintain a seperate nation for a homeland is if
        people are willing to fight for it. Any group that is oppressed
        cannot achieve freedom until they are willing to shed blood-not
        just theirs but that of others as well, Until the GLBT community is
        ready to do as the founding fathers of almost every other nation
        on earth did no "GLBT Homeland" will ever exist. WE-as a whole- can
        whine and pout and cry and try to use courts and polititians(most
        of which are corrupt or imbeciles) and achieve nothing- or WE can
        pick a spot, settle there, and fight for what we want. History has
        shown that such things have one price: blood. Ours and theirs. Even
        the followers of the Blessed Ghandi shed their own blood. But we
        who speak of a gay homeland don't want a homeland bad enough to
        > such a thing. It might muss our hair.
        > Does this sound a little militaristic? It should. It is
        reality, it is history, it is the Truth.
        >
        > Viktor Zimmermann <viktor.zimmermann@g...> wrote: Steff,
        >
        > you rise a topic which probably many wanted to stir but never
        dared.
        > The very idea of a queer nation is much older than is generally
        > believed, and there were always less or more active phases in
        the
        > development of this idea. There are many conceptions existing:
        from "I
        > hate straights" to "Gay Parallel Republic" and of course the one-
        man
        > show of Mr. Anderson. Search for "Queer nationalism" on Google
        and you
        > will certainly find some interesting articles.
        >
        > Well, to answer your question - I must tell you, that most
        actors in
        > the gay nationalism movement seem somewhat uncertain about what
        to do
        > next now. You see, the idea is that much high-flown that most
        people
        > are very euphoric in the first days/weeks, but they let their
        support
        > drop when some real things have to be done - e.g. signing of
        official
        > documents for registration, paying membership dues or simply
        > participating in some tiresome debates. Whenever something real
        must
        > be done, we loose faith and hide in corners, waiting for
        somebody else
        > making the next step.
        >
        > Most of us seem unable to overcome past differences and are
        trapped in
        > our ego-centrism. Even if history has proved that our opponents
        behold
        > right, we cannot make a step towards them and acknowledge our
        > misjudgment. It's not the "us against them" matter, fellows:
        it's
        > about the ability to accept differences of political views. If
        we
        > could find a way to communicate to eachother directly and not
        through
        > our lawyers, it would be a small, but important progress.
        >
        > However, this movement is certainly not dead. Whereas I suppose
        that
        > the remains of Kingdom's government are also planning some re-
        > organization, it's not the only place in the world to discuss
        the gay
        > self-determination. You might find it interesting to peer into
        the
        > "Gay Homeland" discussion group as well:
        >
        > http://forum.gayhomeland.org
        >
        > There we are discussing some aspects of gay nationalism as such,
        now
        > independently from the republican/monarchist mindstate. The
        forum is
        > open to anybody intersted in the gay life and is not strictly
        bound to
        > only republican supporters.
        >
        > I hope that this message will be not understood as an unfriendly
        > attempt to draw subscribers of this group into our own forum.
        It's
        > just a hand, stretched out to this group and all actively
        interested
        > in the discussion, inclusively the moderators/government.
        >
        > We must recognize that all previous efforts obviously HAVE
        failed and
        > we are in need of a serious discussion before we start a next
        try.
        > What do we want to achieve at the long-term, what can we achieve
        > within the next few years? It obviously does NOT suffice
        to "declare
        > independency" and choose an island on the map to be regarded as
        our
        > property.
        >
        > Come back to Earth, buddies, leave the sulling corner and let's
        talk
        > about the enterprise like grown-ups.
        >
        > Viktor Zimmermann
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
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      • Viktor Zimmermann
        Dear Sally, what s your definition for troublemaker ? If this is somebody who is asking too many questions, which other people are unwilling to answer
        Message 3 of 8 , Jan 27, 2006
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          Dear Sally,

          what's your definition for "troublemaker"? If this is somebody who is
          asking too many questions, which other people are unwilling to answer
          honestly, so yes - I am. I love asking questions.

          Indeed, upon I began asking questions, some other people began to do
          alike. The answers were not satisfying - you can't seriously blame ME
          for this? The "gayrepublic group" was formed by individuals, who have
          left this group by free pieces anyway, or were urged to leave. I never
          was telling the world anything more, than Mr. Freeman and Mr. Peréz
          are telling now as well (see gaykingdom.org) - just a couple of
          monthes earlier. And, if you please, what have I to do with the final
          break-up between Mr. Anderson and the rest of his kingdom? No, dear -
          it was a logical consequence, and most of the troubles were caused by
          Mr. Anderson himself - he proved to be extremely gifted in loosing
          trust from many good people, who at beginning took this project
          seriously and invested lots of time and work into it.

          Now to my own business, upon request. Well, a "recent threat of suing"
          from Gunnar? Not at all recent and, no offense - Gunnar talks lot of
          things when he is angry. ;D You can ask him if you wish - he is member
          of this group. As for "lies and rumor" you should check the "Gayzette"
          in this group's file section (with official apologize from "HIM Dale"
          for fraudulent pictures on the old website), as well as the new
          gaykingdom.org website - obviously, in the meanwhile Dale is the only
          one who believes the very fairytales he told us 1 year ago. Our
          website was changed 3 monthes after the conflict with Dale and this
          occasion had nothing to do with him or his "legal actions". I hope
          this helps.

          Generally, it is nothing dishonest or compromizing to be sued by
          certain people - it only indicates that one has crossed their
          interests in some way. And, no offense - Dale would have had his
          reasons to actually NOT going to the court - his chances to win the
          threatend lawsuit were not that good, I guess.

          Semper Augustus,

          Vicky :)

          --- In gaykingdom@yahoogroups.com, "someonenotfamous"
          <someonenotfamous@y...> wrote:
          >
          > Victor, you of all people should practise what you preach!!! You
          > were one of the main trouble makers and are one of the people who
          > caused much damage to the kingdom and formed the breakaway republic
          > group, you then posted lies and rumour on your gat republic web site
          > that resulted in HIM Dale taking legal action against you and you
          > had to remove the offending information, you have also had to endure
          > other legal threats against you by members of your own republic
          > group such as Gunther and his recent threat of suing you, so maybe
          > you should take a look at yourself before lectuing others.
          >
          > Sally
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