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Re: [gaykingdom] Re: Please check your religion at the door

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  • James Nunn
    It appears the simplest way to deal with this is have, as part of the Constitution, a reference that states the Gay Kingdom will not recognize, support or
    Message 1 of 11 , Oct 19, 2005
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      It appears the simplest way to deal with this is have, as part of the Constitution, a reference that states "the Gay Kingdom will not recognize, support or oppose any one religious tradition over another." To ensure that this never changes (or at least makes it difficult to change), the Constitutional Amendment process should stipulate that this section (or the section that covers the "Bill of Rights") may only be amended with an affirmative vote of no less than 90% (or some other figure), and that that vote must be confirmed by a second vote no earlier than three months after the first vote, with the same percentage.

      This would clearly put this matter back into the hands of the people of the Kingdom.

      Just a thought.

      James

      On 10/18/05, Gart <gzeebregts@...> wrote:
      Hi Louis,

      First of all; thanks everyone who responded to my posting. I
      appreciate you taking the time to put your points across.
      Louis, I don't see how you compare religion to sexuality. The two
      have nothing in common whatsoever. You ask me; where do we stop. It
      is actually quite easy. In these matters you can only stop at zero,
      so everyone is clear on the matter. Faith should be a private thing
      and believers of any persuasion should not flaunt their religious
      convictions but keep them to themselves.

      Let me stress once again that I think anyone and everyone should be
      free to believe what they want. Anyway, how are you going to stop
      someone from believing, and why should you want to?

      The Gay Kingdom as a political body wants to remain 'neutral' on
      religious matters. I think that would be a mistake. Religious
      movements of any kind could gain power and influence while the gay
      government tries to maintain its neutrality. The results could be
      disastrous. It wouldn't be the first time. So instead of maintaining
      neutrality, the gay government should draw the line right from the
      start: at zero.

      This means that believers of any kind should not be allowed to form
      organizations for any other purpose than to celebrate their faith
      amongst themselves, in their own houses, mosks, temples, churches,
      whatever. No religious group should have leaders that oversee more
      than their own group or house. Religious groups that take their
      leadership and direction from non-gay leaders outside of the gay
      kingdom (most notably the catholic church) should not be allowed to
      establish chapters in the gay kingdom at all. Religious leaders
      should not be allowed to engage in any political activity, not even
      in political endorsements. And of course religious groups should not
      be tax-exempt, but just get tax deductions for the charity work they
      do.

      As a non-believer and a gay man who knows his history, I take
      offense when confronted with what should be the personal beliefs of
      others. Apart from my personal opinion about religion and religious
      beliefs, I want to reserve the right to be spared the unsollicited
      and unwanted expressions of other people's personal matters.
      Discretion and respect are the key. I don't want strangers to
      intrude on my life with anything from loud pounding music, garbage
      and dog shit, and public conversations on cell phones, to their
      yeast infections on private body parts. Their spiritual beliefs are
      also on this list.

      I don't presume to have all the answers, but I think it is important
      and useful to have the debate on religion (and spirituality) in the
      gay kingdom. I think, as the first state worldwide to truly abolish
      religion from government and public life, we could set an example
      for the rest of the world. For religion is not just the root of all
      anti-gay violence and oppression, it is also the cause of most armed
      conflicts throughout history.

      Gart
      Amsterdam



      --- In gaykingdom@yahoogroups.com, "SEBama1" <sebama1@g...> wrote:
      >
      > Gart,
      >     For one, I appreciate the fact that you have been keeping up
      with the debates. However, I have to compare the "checking of your
      religion at the door" with the idea of "checking your sexuality at
      the door".
      >     With all this in mind I have but one question to ask you Gart,
      just for you (and anyone else in this thought pattern) to ponder on.
      At what point do we stop?
      > Stop telling people what or how to believe, think, live? Oh, and
      who may I ask is to make this decision?
      >     Can someone tell me when do we stop limiting others rights as
      we are already limited in our current societies.
      >
      > Louis Trusty
      >







      YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS






      --
      James D. Nunn <jdnunn@...>
      "When we lose the right to be different, we lose the right to be free." Charles Evans Hughes
    • Anthony N. Urwin
      Mooi geschreven! Anthony Amsterdam ________________________________ Van: gaykingdom@yahoogroups.com namens Gart Verzonden: wo 19-10-2005 0:24 Aan:
      Message 2 of 11 , Oct 25, 2005
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        Mooi geschreven!

        Anthony
        Amsterdam

        ________________________________

        Van: gaykingdom@yahoogroups.com namens Gart
        Verzonden: wo 19-10-2005 0:24
        Aan: gaykingdom@yahoogroups.com
        Onderwerp: [gaykingdom] Re: Please check your religion at the door


        Hi Louis,

        First of all; thanks everyone who responded to my posting. I
        appreciate you taking the time to put your points across.
        Louis, I don't see how you compare religion to sexuality. The two
        have nothing in common whatsoever. You ask me; where do we stop. It
        is actually quite easy. In these matters you can only stop at zero,
        so everyone is clear on the matter. Faith should be a private thing
        and believers of any persuasion should not flaunt their religious
        convictions but keep them to themselves.

        Let me stress once again that I think anyone and everyone should be
        free to believe what they want. Anyway, how are you going to stop
        someone from believing, and why should you want to?

        The Gay Kingdom as a political body wants to remain 'neutral' on
        religious matters. I think that would be a mistake. Religious
        movements of any kind could gain power and influence while the gay
        government tries to maintain its neutrality. The results could be
        disastrous. It wouldn't be the first time. So instead of maintaining
        neutrality, the gay government should draw the line right from the
        start: at zero.

        This means that believers of any kind should not be allowed to form
        organizations for any other purpose than to celebrate their faith
        amongst themselves, in their own houses, mosks, temples, churches,
        whatever. No religious group should have leaders that oversee more
        than their own group or house. Religious groups that take their
        leadership and direction from non-gay leaders outside of the gay
        kingdom (most notably the catholic church) should not be allowed to
        establish chapters in the gay kingdom at all. Religious leaders
        should not be allowed to engage in any political activity, not even
        in political endorsements. And of course religious groups should not
        be tax-exempt, but just get tax deductions for the charity work they
        do.

        As a non-believer and a gay man who knows his history, I take
        offense when confronted with what should be the personal beliefs of
        others. Apart from my personal opinion about religion and religious
        beliefs, I want to reserve the right to be spared the unsollicited
        and unwanted expressions of other people's personal matters.
        Discretion and respect are the key. I don't want strangers to
        intrude on my life with anything from loud pounding music, garbage
        and dog shit, and public conversations on cell phones, to their
        yeast infections on private body parts. Their spiritual beliefs are
        also on this list.

        I don't presume to have all the answers, but I think it is important
        and useful to have the debate on religion (and spirituality) in the
        gay kingdom. I think, as the first state worldwide to truly abolish
        religion from government and public life, we could set an example
        for the rest of the world. For religion is not just the root of all
        anti-gay violence and oppression, it is also the cause of most armed
        conflicts throughout history.

        Gart
        Amsterdam


        --- In gaykingdom@yahoogroups.com, "SEBama1" <sebama1@g...> wrote:
        >
        > Gart,
        > For one, I appreciate the fact that you have been keeping up
        with the debates. However, I have to compare the "checking of your
        religion at the door" with the idea of "checking your sexuality at
        the door".
        > With all this in mind I have but one question to ask you Gart,
        just for you (and anyone else in this thought pattern) to ponder on.
        At what point do we stop?
        > Stop telling people what or how to believe, think, live? Oh, and
        who may I ask is to make this decision?
        > Can someone tell me when do we stop limiting others rights as
        we are already limited in our current societies.
        >
        > Louis Trusty
        >







        ________________________________

        YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS



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