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Religion as a catalyst for effective change

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  • wjf@bellsouth.net
    I think that s generally right. In the EU, it would be a real problem for a candidate for political office to proclaim a religious basis as a mandate for
    Message 1 of 1 , Oct 18, 2005
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      I think that's generally right.

      In the EU, it would be a real problem for a candidate for political office to proclaim a religious basis as a mandate for popular support: something akin to "I believe in Santa Claus, and that makes me a good person you can trust. You should elect me as your leader/judge/apparatchik."

      This is just one of the problems that resulted in the formation of the Unified Gay Tribe as a movement. We reached a point where it became apparent that while the arguments being used against us as gay persons, however fallacious or ridiculous, were nonetheless effective, and it became necessary for us, as a collective society, to acknowledge the deprivation of rights on the basis of our culture and the religious exercise of others directed toward the violation of our basic human rights.

      In my state, Alabama, the defrocked Chief Judge, Roy Moore, is likely to run for governor (CEO) of the state, and he stands a better than average chance of being elected, notwithstanding his violation of his ethical oath as a lawyer and judge and his deliberate disobedience to a superior court, his habit of having people seeking divorces recount their religious involvements under oath, and the widely unreported fact that while serving in the military, he slept with sandbags lining his cot, because he feared his own men would murder him in his sleep.

      In America, people have not yet realized that religion is not a proper basis for good government - even the contrary may be true: the current government of George Bush spends a considerable amount of taxpayer dollars to support "Faith-based initiatives." These initiatives use the public largess to strengthen and support these religious attitudes that, so far as members of the Gay Tribe are concerned, are immediately about the work of dehumanizing us as people and as expeditiously as possible marginalizing our culture through the application of moral precepts that violate even the most basic Christian doctrine.

      Personally, I have had now a time of introspection and a chance to think on this issue at some depth. We are moving forward with our efforts to further organize our Unified Gay Tribe, establish respect for our basic human rights and our distinctive culture among diverse societies, and create the legal framework that will secure protections for members of our Unified Gay Tribe under existing laws which prohibit discrimination amongst members of diverse cultures in many existing nations. We are also moving forward with our international work to secure international access to justice when our basic human rights are violated because of our culture.

      >
      > From: "Anthony N. Urwin" <anthony.urwin@...>
      > Date: 2005/10/18 Tue AM 04:27:44 EDT
      > To: <gaykingdom@yahoogroups.com>
      > Subject: RE: [gaykingdom] Please check your religion at the door
      >
      > Hello ALL:
      >
      >
      >
      > I would tend to agree with Gart. I live in the Netherlands
      > as well, and we have essentially a complete secular society and
      > government with complete rights for gays and lesbians. If that isn't a
      > model for this "venture" into a gay state, I don't know what country
      > would be. I would definitely say that the NL is far more secular in
      > government policies and legal legislation than the United States. This
      > is most evidently seen when the Dutch government passed gay marriage. It
      > was not a religious battle. I think what Gart is saying, correct me if I
      > am wrong, is that religion has absolutely no place in politics, running
      > affairs of state or even being mentioned in a constitution, save
      > mentioning that religion is a freedom that you can enjoy; period.
      > Religion organized or otherwise should never be mentioned in any
      > official capacity. I think it's simpler for everyone and makes more
      > logistical sense. Religion is just one of those things that really
      > offend people no matter where you come from. Most of peoples dislike
      > toward gays and lesbians stems from religion. If for example you see
      > that a tree you have planted is becoming sick and weak. With further
      > inspection you see that it is the soil. Do you keep allowing the soil to
      > remain to kill the tree or do you remove the soil all together and plant
      > it in new fresh soil not tainted by the old soil?
      >
      >
      >
      > Well, just my thoughts...and thanks for listening...
      >
      >
      >
      > Anthony
      >
      >
      >
      > ________________________________
      >
      > From: gaykingdom@yahoogroups.com [mailto:gaykingdom@yahoogroups.com] On
      > Behalf Of SEBama1
      > Sent: Tuesday, October 18, 2005 06:23
      > To: gaykingdom@yahoogroups.com
      > Subject: Re: [gaykingdom] Please check your religion at the door
      >
      >
      >
      > Gart,
      >
      > For one, I appreciate the fact that you have been keeping up with
      > the debates. However, I have to compare the "checking of your religion
      > at the door" with the idea of "checking your sexuality at the door".
      >
      > With all this in mind I have but one question to ask you Gart, just
      > for you (and anyone else in this thought pattern) to ponder on. At what
      > point do we stop?
      >
      > Stop telling people what or how to believe, think, live? Oh, and who may
      > I ask is to make this decision?
      >
      > Can someone tell me when do we stop limiting others rights as we are
      > already limited in our current societies.
      >
      >
      >
      > Louis Trusty
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > From: Gart <mailto:gzeebregts@...>
      >
      > To: gaykingdom@yahoogroups.com
      >
      > Sent: Saturday, October 15, 2005 11:32 AM
      >
      > Subject: [gaykingdom] Please check your religion at the door
      >
      >
      >
      > Hi all!
      >
      > I have been following the debates here for a while now, and I
      > would like to make a suggestion: Please check your religion at the door,
      > or for future immigrants into the gay kingdom; at customs upon entry.
      >
      > Religion has brought us nothing but pain and suffering and is
      > the direct cause of all anti-gay discrimination worldwide. Therefore it
      > is one of the main reasons why we want a sovereign state to begin with.
      >
      > In my humble opinion, there is no god. I don't even believe in
      > Santa Claus, and I can see him!
      >
      > Everyone is free to believe whatever they want, of course, but
      > faith is a private matter and it should remain that way. It is
      > irritating to me that god gets dragged into these debates all the time.
      > I think we should establish that the foundation of the gay kingdom is
      > strictly a legal and political matter, and specifically a non-religious
      > one.
      >
      > Even in a gay state, religion can become a source of division
      > and conflict. I say; outlaw and abolish all organized religion from the
      > gay state and make it a constitutional amendment that organized religion
      > has no place there.
      >
      >
      >
      > Gart
      >
      > Amsterdam
      >
      >
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