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Re: Gunnar has resigned

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  • wyn_chrs
    Joe, I understand your reasoning for having a soveriegn, but when you point out that it is the Privy Councils job of advising the crown, I am unsure why, Bill
    Message 1 of 18 , Apr 28, 2005
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      Joe,

      I understand your reasoning for having a soveriegn, but when you
      point out that it is the Privy Councils job of advising the crown, I
      am unsure why, Bill has made it known that he and the privy council
      are the ones making the decisions and that the crown is really just
      for show, kind of like The Queen of England, just a figure head, so
      this is why I feel like this is really a dictatorship not a
      monarcarcy or a republic, and Yes I have problems with Bill, I do
      believe that he judges people and that he is a dictator, and those
      that dont agree with him are damned, this is my personal issues with
      him not with the rest of you, I am hoping that this dream comes to
      fruitation I really do.

      Don is doing ok, he has been going through some chemo and some
      radiation treatments, he has been a little weak but he is doing ok,
      he is in high spirits, and he is actually getting ready for our trip
      to Dharmashala India, since we are both practicing Tibeatan
      Bhuddihists, we are going to india to have a personal meeting with
      his Holiness The Dalai Lhama, also Don will see his Tibeatan Doctor,
      which he sees twice a year, so hopefully his doctor might be able to
      help with some form of Tibeatan medicine, for the cancer as well as
      Dons mediction for AIDS that he gets. Thank you for asking I know
      Don really appriciates it, he says to tell you all hello, and he says
      that even though he no longer believes in this group because of his
      own personal reasons, he says he made good friends here and he wants
      you all to know that he thinks you all are great and to take care.


      Chris




      --- In gaykingdom@yahoogroups.com, Joe Grande <wsbridgeman@y...>
      wrote:
      > Chris;
      >
      > In any group there will be disagreements on policy and form. While
      Don and many others strongly feel the GLK should move from a Kingdom
      to a Democracy, the fact is the GLK was formed on the premise of a
      Kingdom with a Sovereign. Without the Sovereign we have no claim on
      Cato. Without the Sovereign, those living in Australia could be
      arrested for treason. Those that started this dream are using the
      laws of Australia and Great Briton to lay a claim on Cato.
      >
      > As for the Privy Council hindering the making of laws, it is the
      responsibility to advise the Crown on all matters that affect the
      Crown and the Kingdom. The Assembly is only a part of the
      government -- they are not the whole government. I was always
      willing to work with Jaix and Gunnar. They were not willing to work
      with me or the other members of the Privy Council. Don, I feel, got
      caught up in the disagreements and failed to do research on his own
      to get all the facts. He listened to only one side.
      >
      > By the way, How is Don's health? How is he doing?
      >
      > Thanks for the opportunity to share my thoughts on this subject.
      >
      > Joe Grande
      >
      >
      > wyn_chrs <dclar36@c...> wrote:
      > Joe
      >
      > you are right you never personally disagreed with Don, and he has
      > said this to me, but you as a member of "the privy Council" has
      > disagreed with some of the ideas that he had and that he thought
      > should be a part of this group, like the fact that he thought this
      > should be a demoracy where the crown and the privy council should
      > allow the elected government to make laws, not hinder them, and
      this
      > is what he thought the Privy council was doing.
      >
      > and yes some NEW members of the parliment before they became part
      of
      > the elected governemnt, accused DON of high treasons becuase of his
      > thoughts and views, which is totally over the top.
      >
      >
      > BUT I believe that this could be a good group
      >
      > Chris
      >
      >
      >
      > -- In gaykingdom@yahoogroups.com, Joe Grande <wsbridgeman@y...>
      wrote:
      > > Sorry folks, but I can not let this go without a comment.
      > >
      > > Chris, you state, "If some one, Like my partner or Gunner or Jaix
      > dint agree with Bill or joe. or Jon or...".
      > >
      > >
      > > I do not remember ever having a disagreement with your partner.
      My
      > memory may be failing me, I am getting up in years, but I do not
      > remember him or me disagreeing publicly on anything. As for Jaix
      and
      > Gunnar, there should never be any doubt that we not once ever
      agreed
      > on anything.
      > >
      > > From the first day Jaix and Gunnar joined this group, they
      > disagreed 100% with what the group stood for and the founding
      > principles. THEY and not I are the one's that disagreed with the
      > founding documents of the GLK. THEY and not me are the one's that
      > stated publicly the sovereign had to go.
      > >
      > > Treason? I'm not sure I'm willing to get out the firing squad.
      > However I did not then, and I do not now, understand why anyone
      would
      > join this group and from the very first day do all they could to
      tear
      > it down and reconstruct it in a manner that was pleasing to them,
      > eliminating the founding documents and eliminating anyone that was
      a
      > member before them.
      > >
      > > They left voluntarily. No one "drove them out of town on a
      rail".
      > They willingly decided this world was big enough for a second, or
      > third, GLBT country. I have wished them all the best of luck. I
      > have NEVER spoken ill of them or their group. I wish that were
      true
      > on their part.
      > >
      > > Chris, you are always welcome to be a member of the original
      group
      > working for the original GLBT country on the planet. Your ideas
      and
      > constructive comments are always welcomed and solicited. We have
      an
      > elected Assembly. We have founding documents that are still in
      force
      > and in original format from the day they were written. I thank you
      > for your comments and I hope we will 'see' more of you and you will
      > be more active in our dream.
      > >
      > > Joe Grande, MPC
      > > Seattle
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > wyn_chrs <dclar36@c...> wrote:
      > > Not Again,
      > >
      > > Hello You all dont know me but you will because I am going to
      > > introduce myself to you, My name is Chris, I am Don Clarks
      Partner,
      > > he used to be a member of the Government,but he resigned due to
      the
      > > fact that you all just fight and that there was no real freedom
      of
      > > speech here or any freedom, I stayed because I believed that this
      > > could be a great thing and that the idea was a real good thing,
      but
      > I
      > > am begining to rethink that now. all I am seeing is a group of
      > > people hell bent on the idea that they are right and if you dont
      > > believe in what they do or dont do what they want you to or say
      > what
      > > you want them to, then they are wrong they are traitors or they
      > have
      > > commited High crimes of treason against the crown. If some one,
      > Like
      > > my partner or Gunner or Jaix dint agree with Bill or joe. or Jon
      or
      > > Jase or any other member of the Puupet sham of parliment, then
      they
      > > are commiting High Treason or They should just be banned from the
      > > group and that thier citesinshipto the GLK revocted, So I ask
      you,
      > > How is this any different then what the NAZIS did? If you could
      > have
      > > people shot for disagreeing with you I am not so sure you wouldnt
      > do
      > > it. I think the anology or the Nazis is a good one. I personally
      at
      > > this time think that this "country" or group is on a very wrong
      > > track, this is a "country" that is no better then that of a
      > > dictorship, this is a group that has a sham of a "king" which is
      > > really just the puppet of a supreme court Judge Bill, who has the
      > > advisors of a privy council, But it all just a sham a front for a
      > > dictator named Bill Freeman. this is no better then what we have
      > > here in The USA with our current President George Bush, when Bush
      > > doesnt get what he wants he just changes the rules, if you
      > dontagree
      > > with him then he does something to get rid of you or does
      something
      > > to change the laws, no different then what is going on here. You
      > all
      > > will disagree with me, and Bill or another Member of the Puppet
      > > government will proably ban me, bit I needed to say this.
      > >
      > > I dont want to leave, I want to stay and really see if this can
      get
      > > off the ground, I want to stay and have you all prove me and Don
      > > wrong, I really want to believe that this is a free country and
      > that
      > > this is a refuge to all gay people around the world, Prove me
      wrong
      > I
      > > dare all of you
      > >
      > > Chris
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > --- In gaykingdom@yahoogroups.com, redaktion.knesebeck@g... wrote:
      > > > ADVERTISEMENT
      > >
      > >
      > > Thanks again, Jase.
      > >
      > > Very insightful. But i have been called a traitor in this group.
      > That
      > > is a proven fact. Find the Forum Jon quoted from right here:
      > > http://thelastbaron.com/index.php?topic=11.0 - just to make sure
      > that
      > > you get a copy not worked on.
      > >
      > > Best regards to you all
      > > Günter Knesebeck
      > > technically MLA still - (I didn't sent a resignation to the Lord
      > > Protector, nor to the President of the Assembly. But according to
      > > existing law in the GLK i have to do this) - but that's really
      > > technically. Sadly enough, I had to find out that something like
      > > a "Law", as we call it usually, is not in use in the GLK. Same
      > > situations threatened differently, both founded on the same law,
      is
      > > more than a bit strange. And a reason to resign indeed. So for
      all,
      > > and for Joe Grande's special joy an excitement, I resign. I
      really
      > > do hope you can bring the Issue forward. I will for sure do. Best
      > > wishes to all (including Joe Grande) in general and to Jase,
      Bill,
      > > and Jon in particular.
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > At 22:58 27.04.05, Jase wrote:
      > >
      > > Oy, Just what we need.... another scandal! ;0)
      > >
      > > I don't think anyone ever called Gunnar a traitor. Merely
      questions
      > > were raised about his doing by-laws for another group which we
      > > assumed was for the GLR. If it was for something that wasn't a
      > > government or movement contrary to ours, I believe all would have
      > > been left alone. IF it was contrary, I think there would be a
      > > conflict and we would have asked that this conflict be remedied.
      I
      > > don't think we solved the problem correctly. In the future, if
      > > someone finds something that might be in conflict to our mission,
      I
      > > believe we should politely ask the person to explain if
      > > this "possible" conflict is in fact that, a conflict. To accuse
      > > someone and "demand" an answer within a certain timeline, I think
      > the
      > > person would have no other response but to be hostile. These are
      > > trying times, my fellow legislators.... we need to move with
      > passion,
      > > but also with smarts.
      > >
      > > This message isn't meant to be a critique or accuse anyone of
      > > anything. This is just my observation on this ordeal and how I
      > think
      > > it could have been handled better.
      > >
      > > I think we need to add a clause to our constitution stating that
      > any
      > > actions that run contrary to the mission of the Gay Lesbian
      Kingdom
      > > shall be not allowed. Any actions seen as a conflict need to be
      > > explained and remedied if said actions are in fact deemed a
      > conflict.
      > >
      > > This way we have a set guideline, and a way to ask the person to
      > > explain themselves without being accusatory and causing grief and
      > > anger to be present. That way future "assumed" conflicts won't
      > cause
      > > people to resign their posts before a "real" conflict has been
      > > established. We need to be able to move forward, and if we keep
      > > loosing people the mission won't be able to continue. For now we
      > > might be able to keep a quorum without Gunnar, but in the future
      if
      > > our attitudes and the way we ask information of others, we may
      > loose
      > > too many people and our mission will be stalled.
      > >
      > > And for Gunnar to compare our tactics to that of Nazi's is a
      scary
      > > thought. I think using those words was a tad strong, especially
      to
      > > this Jew. But as we say, each person is entitled to his/her
      > opinion,
      > > and our actions and the way we handled them may have provoked
      this
      > > response.
      > >
      > > Just a thought... or two ;0)
      > >
      > >
      > > www.neonjase.com
      > > -------Original Message-------
      > >
      > > From: Jon Matlick
      > > Date: 04/26/05 22:03:56
      > > To: Louis Trusty; Dallas Vinson; Dan Fowler; Enrique J Pérez;
      > > Gunter
      > > Knesebeck; Gunter Van C; Jack Blue; Jason Ruel; Karress Rhodes
      > > Cc: William Freeman; Bill Freeman; Joe Grande
      > > Subject: Gunnar has resigned
      > >
      > >
      > > Günter,
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > Your resignation has been accepted.
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > Jon Matlick
      > >
      > > Lord Protector
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > GLR Forum
      > >
      > > Gunnar
      > >
      > > Administrator
      > > Jr. Member
      > > Offline
      > >
      > > Gender:
      > > Posts: 3
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > Counter Intelligencene against Mindcontrolling
      > >
      > > « on: Today at 19:22:54 »
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > This is a special post for some guys of the old gaykingdom group.
      > > It's in the meantime a proven fact, that they come here and try
      to
      > > find out about the "government" of the GLR. At the Moment, such a
      > > government does not exist. But it appears to be kinda hostile
      > > activity against the gay kingdom, to be an Administrator in here.
      > > This needs some explaination. The group I'm referring to is a
      group
      > > claiming to consist out of the members of the United Gay Tribe.
      > There
      > > are currently no laws, which would disallow to work for other
      > > Organisations as well. To me, being a born German, it looks like
      > the
      > > Blockwart behavoir in the Nazi Era. In Germany this is over. If
      > > the "Gay Kingdom" wants to continue this, well... . I'm afraid I
      > > can't be proud any longer being gay.
      > > I am deeply ashamed because I have supported the Idea of the Gay
      > > Kingdom before. So I will stop this support immediately. I don't
      > want
      > > to have anything to do with people behaving and acting like
      Nazis.
      > > The "Gay" Kingdom should be deeply ashamed to use the word "gay"
      in
      > > it's Name. It doesn't forward the interests of LGBT people. It's
      > > simply a Role game (you can subscribe to it - special offer $50).
      > > Finally, and for the official records of the gay kingdom: I
      resign
      > > from my post as a member of the legislative Assembly.
      > > Usually i stick to my word. But if I have to recognize later,
      that
      > I
      > > have given my Word to Nazis, which are into all but gay rights,
      > which
      > > are to control (!) what I do and what I think - NO, THANKS
      > > I hope you all appreciate my point of view.
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > Up Thread | Message Index | View Source | Unwrap Lines Message
      > 1989
      > > of 1989 < Previous | Next >
      > > Message # Search:
      > >
      > >
      > >
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    • Jase
      Chris, As a recently elected member of parliament, please do not compare me with previous acts committed by previous parliaments. I believe if you had the
      Message 2 of 18 , Apr 28, 2005
      • 0 Attachment
        Chris,
         
        As a recently elected member of parliament, please do not compare me with previous acts committed by previous parliaments. I believe if you had the entire conversation you will see I never once accused him of anything, nor anyone else. I never once called someone a traitor, and I, on numerous occasions cautioned the other members of the MP, PC, and anyone else involved to word their words wisely and make sure something that was a conflict of interest was actually there. Please learn all the facts before you name someone as a culprit of doing something. In fact, Gunnar thanks me for my words many times in this conversation which you were not privy to, but for the last message.
         
        And once again, lets not call people Nazi's.. for this Jew will never, and has never been one, will be one, or appreciates ever being called one.
         
        These are my opinions and hurt, and no one else's. 
         
        -------Original Message-------
         
        From: wyn_chrs
        Date: 04/28/05 00:11:09
        Subject: [gaykingdom] Re: Gunnar has resigned
         
        Not Again,
         
        Hello You all dont  know me but  you will because I am going to
        introduce myself to you, My name is Chris, I am Don Clarks Partner,
        he used to be a member of the Government,but he resigned due to the
        fact that you all just fight and that there was no real freedom of
        speech here or any freedom, I stayed because I believed that this
        could be a great thing and that the idea was a real good thing, but I
        am begining to rethink that now.  all I am seeing is a group of
        people hell bent on the idea that they are right and if you dont
        believe in what they do or dont do what they want you to or say what
        you want them to, then they are wrong they are traitors or they have
        commited High crimes of treason against the crown. If some one, Like
        my partner or Gunner or Jaix dint agree with Bill or joe. or Jon or
        Jase or any other member of the Puupet sham of parliment, then they
        are commiting High Treason or They should just be banned from the
        group and that thier citesinshipto the GLK revocted, So I ask you,
        How is this any different then what the NAZIS did? If you could have
        people shot for disagreeing with you I am not so sure you wouldnt do
        it. I think the anology or the Nazis is a good one. I personally at
        this time think that this "country" or group is on a very wrong
        track, this is a "country" that is no better then that of a
        dictorship, this is a group that has a sham of a "king" which is
        really just the puppet of a supreme court Judge Bill, who has the
        advisors of a privy council, But it all just a sham a front for a
        dictator named Bill Freeman.  this is no better then what we have
        here in The USA with our current President George Bush, when Bush
        doesnt get what he wants he just changes the rules,  if you dontagree
        with him then he does something to get rid of you or does something
        to change the laws, no different then what is going on here.  You all
        will disagree with me, and Bill or another Member of the Puppet
        government will proably ban me, bit I needed to say this.
         
        I dont want to leave, I want to stay and really see if this can get
        off the ground, I want to stay and have you all prove me and Don
        wrong, I really want to believe that this is a free country and that
        this is a refuge to all gay people around the world, Prove me wrong I
        dare all of you
         
        Chris
         
         
         
         
        > ADVERTISEMENT
         
         
        Thanks again, Jase.
         
        Very insightful. But i have been called a traitor in this group. That
        is a proven fact. Find the Forum Jon quoted from right here:
        you get a copy not worked on.
         
        Best regards to you all
        Günter Knesebeck
        technically MLA still - (I didn't sent a resignation to the Lord
        Protector, nor to the President of the Assembly. But according to
        existing law in the GLK i have to do this) - but that's really
        technically. Sadly enough, I had to find out that something like
        a "Law", as we call it usually, is not in use in the GLK. Same
        situations threatened differently, both founded on the same law, is
        more than a bit strange. And a reason to resign indeed. So for all,
        and  for Joe Grande's special joy an excitement, I resign. I really
        do hope you can bring the Issue forward. I will for sure do. Best
        wishes to all (including Joe Grande) in general and to Jase, Bill,
        and Jon in particular.
         
         
         
        At 22:58 27.04.05, Jase wrote:
         
        Oy, Just what we need.... another scandal! ;0)
         
        I don't think anyone ever called Gunnar a traitor. Merely questions
        were raised about his doing by-laws for another group which we
        assumed was for the GLR. If it was for something that wasn't a
        government or movement contrary to ours, I believe all would have
        been left alone. IF it was contrary, I think there would be a
        conflict and we would have asked that this conflict be remedied. I
        don't think we solved the problem correctly. In the future, if
        someone finds something that might be in conflict to our mission, I
        believe we should politely ask the person to explain if
        this "possible" conflict is in fact that, a conflict. To accuse
        someone and "demand" an answer within a certain timeline, I think the
        person would have no other response but to be hostile. These are
        trying times, my fellow legislators.... we need to move with passion,
        but also with smarts.
         
        This message isn't meant to be a critique or accuse anyone of
        anything. This is just my observation on this ordeal and how I think
        it could have been handled better.
         
        I think we need to add a clause to our constitution stating that any
        actions that run contrary to the mission of the Gay Lesbian Kingdom
        shall be not allowed. Any actions seen as a conflict need to be
        explained and remedied if said actions are in fact deemed a conflict.
         
        This way we have a set guideline, and a way to ask the person to
        explain themselves without being accusatory and causing grief and
        anger to be present. That way future "assumed" conflicts won't cause
        people to resign their posts before a "real" conflict has been
        established. We need to be able to move forward, and if we keep
        loosing people the mission won't be able to continue. For now we
        might be able to keep a quorum without Gunnar, but in the future if
        our attitudes and the way we ask information of others, we may loose
        too many people and our mission will be stalled.
         
        And for Gunnar to compare our tactics to that of Nazi's is a scary
        thought. I think using those words was a tad strong, especially to
        this Jew. But as we say, each person is entitled to his/her opinion,
        and our actions and the way we handled them may have provoked this
        response.
         
        Just a thought... or two  ;0)
         
         
        -------Original Message-------
         
        From: Jon Matlick
        Date: 04/26/05 22:03:56
        To: Louis Trusty; Dallas Vinson; Dan Fowler; Enrique J Pérez;
        Gunter
        Knesebeck; Gunter Van C; Jack Blue; Jason Ruel; Karress Rhodes
        Cc: William Freeman; Bill Freeman; Joe Grande
        Subject: Gunnar has resigned
         
         
        Günter,
         
         
         
          Your resignation has been accepted.
         
         
         
        Jon Matlick
         
        Lord Protector
         
         
         
        GLR Forum
         
        Gunnar
         
        Administrator
        Jr. Member
        Offline
         
        Gender:
        Posts: 3
         
         
         
         
         
        Counter Intelligencene against Mindcontrolling
         
        « on: Today at 19:22:54 »
         
         
         
         
         
         
        This is a special post for some guys of the old gaykingdom group.
        It's in the meantime a proven fact, that they come here and try to
        find out about the "government" of the GLR. At the Moment, such a
        government does not exist. But it appears to be kinda hostile
        activity against the gay kingdom, to be an Administrator in here.
        This needs some explaination. The group I'm referring to is a group
        claiming to consist out of the members of the United Gay Tribe. There
        are currently no laws, which would disallow to work for other
        Organisations as well. To me, being a born German, it looks like the
        Blockwart behavoir in the Nazi Era. In Germany this is over. If
        the "Gay Kingdom" wants to continue this, well... . I'm afraid I
        can't be proud any longer being gay.
        I am deeply ashamed because I have supported the Idea of the Gay
        Kingdom before. So I will stop this support immediately. I don't want
        to have anything to do with people behaving and acting like Nazis.
        The "Gay" Kingdom should be deeply ashamed to use the word "gay" in
        it's Name. It doesn't forward the interests of LGBT people. It's
        simply a Role game (you can subscribe to it - special offer $50).
        Finally, and for the official records of the gay kingdom: I resign
        from my post as a member of the legislative Assembly.
        Usually i stick to my word. But if I have to recognize later, that I
        have given my Word to Nazis, which are into all but gay rights, which
        are to control (!) what I do and what I think - NO, THANKS
        I hope you all appreciate my point of view.
         
         
         
         
         
         
         
         
         
         
         
         
         
         
         
         
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      • Donald Clark
        I wasnt comparing you,itisothermembers that were jsut elected, and they know whom they are. Donald W Clark II DonClarkII@yahoo.com ... From: Jase To:
        Message 3 of 18 , Apr 28, 2005
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          I wasnt comparing you,itisothermembers that were jsut elected, and they know whom they are.
          Donald W Clark II
           
          ----- Original Message -----
          From: Jase
          Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2005 2:04 PM
          Subject: Re: [gaykingdom] Re: Gunnar has resigned

          Chris,
           
          As a recently elected member of parliament, please do not compare me with previous acts committed by previous parliaments. I believe if you had the entire conversation you will see I never once accused him of anything, nor anyone else. I never once called someone a traitor, and I, on numerous occasions cautioned the other members of the MP, PC, and anyone else involved to word their words wisely and make sure something that was a conflict of interest was actually there. Please learn all the facts before you name someone as a culprit of doing something. In fact, Gunnar thanks me for my words many times in this conversation which you were not privy to, but for the last message.
           
          And once again, lets not call people Nazi's.. for this Jew will never, and has never been one, will be one, or appreciates ever being called one.
           
          These are my opinions and hurt, and no one else's. 
           
          -------Original Message-------
           
          From: wyn_chrs
          Date: 04/28/05 00:11:09
          Subject: [gaykingdom] Re: Gunnar has resigned
           
          Not Again,
           
          Hello You all dont  know me but  you will because I am going to
          introduce myself to you, My name is Chris, I am Don Clarks Partner,
          he used to be a member of the Government,but he resigned due to the
          fact that you all just fight and that there was no real freedom of
          speech here or any freedom, I stayed because I believed that this
          could be a great thing and that the idea was a real good thing, but I
          am begining to rethink that now.  all I am seeing is a group of
          people hell bent on the idea that they are right and if you dont
          believe in what they do or dont do what they want you to or say what
          you want them to, then they are wrong they are traitors or they have
          commited High crimes of treason against the crown. If some one, Like
          my partner or Gunner or Jaix dint agree with Bill or joe. or Jon or
          Jase or any other member of the Puupet sham of parliment, then they
          are commiting High Treason or They should just be banned from the
          group and that thier citesinshipto the GLK revocted, So I ask you,
          How is this any different then what the NAZIS did? If you could have
          people shot for disagreeing with you I am not so sure you wouldnt do
          it. I think the anology or the Nazis is a good one. I personally at
          this time think that this "country" or group is on a very wrong
          track, this is a "country" that is no better then that of a
          dictorship, this is a group that has a sham of a "king" which is
          really just the puppet of a supreme court Judge Bill, who has the
          advisors of a privy council, But it all just a sham a front for a
          dictator named Bill Freeman.  this is no better then what we have
          here in The USA with our current President George Bush, when Bush
          doesnt get what he wants he just changes the rules,  if you dontagree
          with him then he does something to get rid of you or does something
          to change the laws, no different then what is going on here.  You all
          will disagree with me, and Bill or another Member of the Puppet
          government will proably ban me, bit I needed to say this.
           
          I dont want to leave, I want to stay and really see if this can get
          off the ground, I want to stay and have you all prove me and Don
          wrong, I really want to believe that this is a free country and that
          this is a refuge to all gay people around the world, Prove me wrong I
          dare all of you
           
          Chris
           
           
           
           
          > ADVERTISEMENT
           
           
          Thanks again, Jase.
           
          Very insightful. But i have been called a traitor in this group. That
          is a proven fact. Find the Forum Jon quoted from right here:
          you get a copy not worked on.
           
          Best regards to you all
          Günter Knesebeck
          technically MLA still - (I didn't sent a resignation to the Lord
          Protector, nor to the President of the Assembly. But according to
          existing law in the GLK i have to do this) - but that's really
          technically. Sadly enough, I had to find out that something like
          a "Law", as we call it usually, is not in use in the GLK. Same
          situations threatened differently, both founded on the same law, is
          more than a bit strange. And a reason to resign indeed. So for all,
          and  for Joe Grande's special joy an excitement, I resign. I really
          do hope you can bring the Issue forward. I will for sure do. Best
          wishes to all (including Joe Grande) in general and to Jase, Bill,
          and Jon in particular.
           
           
           
          At 22:58 27.04.05, Jase wrote:
           
          Oy, Just what we need.... another scandal! ;0)
           
          I don't think anyone ever called Gunnar a traitor. Merely questions
          were raised about his doing by-laws for another group which we
          assumed was for the GLR. If it was for something that wasn't a
          government or movement contrary to ours, I believe all would have
          been left alone. IF it was contrary, I think there would be a
          conflict and we would have asked that this conflict be remedied. I
          don't think we solved the problem correctly. In the future, if
          someone finds something that might be in conflict to our mission, I
          believe we should politely ask the person to explain if
          this "possible" conflict is in fact that, a conflict. To accuse
          someone and "demand" an answer within a certain timeline, I think the
          person would have no other response but to be hostile. These are
          trying times, my fellow legislators.... we need to move with passion,
          but also with smarts.
           
          This message isn't meant to be a critique or accuse anyone of
          anything. This is just my observation on this ordeal and how I think
          it could have been handled better.
           
          I think we need to add a clause to our constitution stating that any
          actions that run contrary to the mission of the Gay Lesbian Kingdom
          shall be not allowed. Any actions seen as a conflict need to be
          explained and remedied if said actions are in fact deemed a conflict.
           
          This way we have a set guideline, and a way to ask the person to
          explain themselves without being accusatory and causing grief and
          anger to be present. That way future "assumed" conflicts won't cause
          people to resign their posts before a "real" conflict has been
          established. We need to be able to move forward, and if we keep
          loosing people the mission won't be able to continue. For now we
          might be able to keep a quorum without Gunnar, but in the future if
          our attitudes and the way we ask information of others, we may loose
          too many people and our mission will be stalled.
           
          And for Gunnar to compare our tactics to that of Nazi's is a scary
          thought. I think using those words was a tad strong, especially to
          this Jew. But as we say, each person is entitled to his/her opinion,
          and our actions and the way we handled them may have provoked this
          response.
           
          Just a thought... or two  ;0)
           
           
          -------Original Message-------
           
          From: Jon Matlick
          Date: 04/26/05 22:03:56
          To: Louis Trusty; Dallas Vinson; Dan Fowler; Enrique J Pérez;
          Gunter
          Knesebeck; Gunter Van C; Jack Blue; Jason Ruel; Karress Rhodes
          Cc: William Freeman; Bill Freeman; Joe Grande
          Subject: Gunnar has resigned
           
           
          Günter,
           
           
           
            Your resignation has been accepted.
           
           
           
          Jon Matlick
           
          Lord Protector
           
           
           
          GLR Forum
           
          Gunnar
           
          Administrator
          Jr. Member
          Offline
           
          Gender:
          Posts: 3
           
           
           
           
           
          Counter Intelligencene against Mindcontrolling
           
          « on: Today at 19:22:54 »
           
           
           
           
           
           
          This is a special post for some guys of the old gaykingdom group.
          It's in the meantime a proven fact, that they come here and try to
          find out about the "government" of the GLR. At the Moment, such a
          government does not exist. But it appears to be kinda hostile
          activity against the gay kingdom, to be an Administrator in here.
          This needs some explaination. The group I'm referring to is a group
          claiming to consist out of the members of the United Gay Tribe. There
          are currently no laws, which would disallow to work for other
          Organisations as well. To me, being a born German, it looks like the
          Blockwart behavoir in the Nazi Era. In Germany this is over. If
          the "Gay Kingdom" wants to continue this, well... . I'm afraid I
          can't be proud any longer being gay.
          I am deeply ashamed because I have supported the Idea of the Gay
          Kingdom before. So I will stop this support immediately. I don't want
          to have anything to do with people behaving and acting like Nazis.
          The "Gay" Kingdom should be deeply ashamed to use the word "gay" in
          it's Name. It doesn't forward the interests of LGBT people. It's
          simply a Role game (you can subscribe to it - special offer $50).
          Finally, and for the official records of the gay kingdom: I resign
          from my post as a member of the legislative Assembly.
          Usually i stick to my word. But if I have to recognize later, that I
          have given my Word to Nazis, which are into all but gay rights, which
          are to control (!) what I do and what I think - NO, THANKS
          I hope you all appreciate my point of view.
           
           
           
           
           
           
           
           
           
           
           
           
           
           
           
           
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        • Joe Grande
          Please insure Don stays in touch. MAny of us keep him in our daily prayers. wyn_chrs wrote:Joe, I understand your reasoning for
          Message 4 of 18 , Apr 28, 2005
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            Please insure Don stays in touch.  MAny of us keep him in our daily prayers.

            wyn_chrs <dclar36@...> wrote:
            Joe,

            I understand your reasoning for having a soveriegn, but when you
            point out that it is the Privy Councils job of advising the crown, I
            am unsure why, Bill has made it known that he and the privy council
            are the ones making the decisions and that the crown is really just
            for show, kind of like The Queen of England, just a figure head, so
            this is why I feel like this is really a dictatorship not a
            monarcarcy or a republic, and Yes I have problems with Bill, I do
            believe that he judges people and that he is a dictator, and those
            that dont agree with him are damned, this is my personal issues with
            him not with the rest of you, I am hoping that this dream comes to
            fruitation I really do.

            Don is doing ok, he has been going through some chemo and some
            radiation  treatments, he has been a little weak but he is doing ok,
            he is in high spirits, and he is actually getting ready for our trip
            to Dharmashala India, since we are both practicing Tibeatan
            Bhuddihists, we are going to india to have a personal meeting with
            his Holiness The Dalai Lhama, also Don will see his Tibeatan Doctor,
            which he sees twice a year, so hopefully his doctor might be able to
            help with some form of Tibeatan medicine, for the cancer as well as
            Dons mediction for AIDS that he gets.  Thank you for asking I know
            Don really appriciates it, he says to tell you all hello, and he says
            that even though he no longer believes in this group because of his
            own personal reasons, he says he made good friends here and he wants
            you all to know that he thinks you all are great and to take care.


            Chris




            --- In gaykingdom@yahoogroups.com, Joe Grande <wsbridgeman@y...>
            wrote:
            > Chris;

            > In any group there will be disagreements on policy and form.  While
            Don and many others strongly feel the GLK should move from a Kingdom
            to a Democracy, the fact is the GLK was formed on the premise of a
            Kingdom with a Sovereign.  Without the Sovereign we have no claim on
            Cato.  Without the Sovereign, those living in Australia could be
            arrested for treason.  Those that started this dream are using the
            laws of Australia and Great Briton to lay a claim on Cato.
            >
            > As for the Privy Council hindering the making of laws, it is the
            responsibility to advise the Crown on all matters that affect the
            Crown and the Kingdom.  The Assembly is only a part of the
            government -- they are not the whole government.  I was always
            willing to work with Jaix and Gunnar.  They were not willing to work
            with me or the other members of the Privy Council.  Don, I feel, got
            caught up in the disagreements and failed to do research on his own
            to get all the facts.  He listened to only one side.
            >
            > By the way, How is Don's health?  How is he doing?
            >
            > Thanks for the opportunity to share my thoughts on this subject.
            >
            > Joe Grande
            >
            >
            > wyn_chrs <dclar36@c...> wrote:
            > Joe
            >
            > you are right you never personally disagreed with Don, and he has
            > said this to me, but you as a member of "the privy Council" has
            > disagreed with some of the ideas that he had and that he thought
            > should be a part of this group, like the fact that he thought this
            > should be a demoracy where the crown and the privy council should
            > allow the elected government to make laws, not hinder them, and
            this
            > is what he thought the Privy council was doing.
            >
            > and yes some NEW members of the parliment before they became part
            of
            > the elected governemnt, accused DON of high treasons becuase of his
            > thoughts and views, which is totally over the top.
            >
            >
            > BUT I believe that this could be a good group
            >
            > Chris
            >
            >
            >
            > -- In gaykingdom@yahoogroups.com, Joe Grande <wsbridgeman@y...>
            wrote:
            > > Sorry folks, but I can not let this go without a comment. 
            > > 
            > > Chris, you state, "If some one, Like my partner or Gunner or Jaix
            > dint agree with Bill or joe. or Jon or...".
            > > 
            > >
            > > I do not remember ever having a disagreement with your partner. 
            My
            > memory may be failing me, I am getting up in years, but I do not
            > remember him or me disagreeing publicly on anything.  As for Jaix
            and
            > Gunnar, there should never be any doubt that we not once ever
            agreed
            > on anything.
            > > 
            > > From the first day Jaix and Gunnar joined this group, they
            > disagreed 100% with what the group stood for and the founding
            > principles.  THEY and not I are the one's that disagreed with the
            > founding documents of the GLK.  THEY and not me are the one's that
            > stated publicly the sovereign had to go. 
            > > 
            > > Treason?  I'm not sure I'm willing to get out the firing squad. 
            > However I did not then, and I do not now, understand why anyone
            would
            > join this group and from the very first day do all they could to
            tear
            > it down and reconstruct it in a manner that was pleasing to them,
            > eliminating the founding documents and eliminating anyone that was
            a
            > member before them.
            > > 
            > > They left voluntarily.  No one "drove them out of town on a
            rail". 
            > They willingly decided this world was big enough for a second, or
            > third, GLBT country.  I have wished them all the best of luck.  I
            > have NEVER spoken ill of them or their group.  I wish that were
            true
            > on their part.
            > > 
            > > Chris, you are always welcome to be a  member of the original
            group
            > working for the original GLBT country on the planet.  Your ideas
            and
            > constructive comments are always welcomed and solicited.  We have
            an
            > elected Assembly.  We have founding documents that are still in
            force
            > and in original format from the day they were written.  I thank you
            > for your comments and I hope we will 'see' more of you and you will
            > be more active in our dream.
            > > 
            > > Joe Grande, MPC
            > > Seattle
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > wyn_chrs <dclar36@c...> wrote:
            > > Not Again,
            > >
            > > Hello You all dont  know me but  you will because I am going to
            > > introduce myself to you, My name is Chris, I am Don Clarks
            Partner,
            > > he used to be a member of the Government,but he resigned due to
            the
            > > fact that you all just fight and that there was no real freedom
            of
            > > speech here or any freedom, I stayed because I believed that this
            > > could be a great thing and that the idea was a real good thing,
            but
            > I
            > > am begining to rethink that now.  all I am seeing is a group of
            > > people hell bent on the idea that they are right and if you dont
            > > believe in what they do or dont do what they want you to or say
            > what
            > > you want them to, then they are wrong they are traitors or they
            > have
            > > commited High crimes of treason against the crown. If some one,
            > Like
            > > my partner or Gunner or Jaix dint agree with Bill or joe. or Jon
            or
            > > Jase or any other member of the Puupet sham of parliment, then
            they
            > > are commiting High Treason or They should just be banned from the
            > > group and that thier citesinshipto the GLK revocted, So I ask
            you,
            > > How is this any different then what the NAZIS did? If you could
            > have
            > > people shot for disagreeing with you I am not so sure you wouldnt
            > do
            > > it. I think the anology or the Nazis is a good one. I personally
            at
            > > this time think that this "country" or group is on a very wrong
            > > track, this is a "country" that is no better then that of a
            > > dictorship, this is a group that has a sham of a "king" which is
            > > really just the puppet of a supreme court Judge Bill, who has the
            > > advisors of a privy council, But it all just a sham a front for a
            > > dictator named Bill Freeman.  this is no better then what we have
            > > here in The USA with our current President George Bush, when Bush
            > > doesnt get what he wants he just changes the rules,  if you
            > dontagree
            > > with him then he does something to get rid of you or does
            something
            > > to change the laws, no different then what is going on here.  You
            > all
            > > will disagree with me, and Bill or another Member of the Puppet
            > > government will proably ban me, bit I needed to say this.
            > >
            > > I dont want to leave, I want to stay and really see if this can
            get
            > > off the ground, I want to stay and have you all prove me and Don
            > > wrong, I really want to believe that this is a free country and
            > that
            > > this is a refuge to all gay people around the world, Prove me
            wrong
            > I
            > > dare all of you
            > >
            > > Chris
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > --- In gaykingdom@yahoogroups.com, redaktion.knesebeck@g... wrote:
            > > > ADVERTISEMENT
            > >
            > >
            > > Thanks again, Jase.
            > >
            > > Very insightful. But i have been called a traitor in this group.
            > That
            > > is a proven fact. Find the Forum Jon quoted from right here:
            > > http://thelastbaron.com/index.php?topic=11.0 - just to make sure
            > that
            > > you get a copy not worked on.
            > >
            > > Best regards to you all
            > > G�nter Knesebeck
            > > technically MLA still - (I didn't sent a resignation to the Lord
            > > Protector, nor to the President of the Assembly. But according to
            > > existing law in the GLK i have to do this) - but that's really
            > > technically. Sadly enough, I had to find out that something like
            > > a "Law", as we call it usually, is not in use in the GLK. Same
            > > situations threatened differently, both founded on the same law,
            is
            > > more than a bit strange. And a reason to resign indeed. So for
            all,
            > > and  for Joe Grande's special joy an excitement, I resign. I
            really
            > > do hope you can bring the Issue forward. I will for sure do. Best
            > > wishes to all (including Joe Grande) in general and to Jase,
            Bill,
            > > and Jon in particular.
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > At 22:58 27.04.05, Jase wrote:
            > >
            > > Oy, Just what we need.... another scandal! ;0)
            > >
            > > I don't think anyone ever called Gunnar a traitor. Merely
            questions
            > > were raised about his doing by-laws for another group which we
            > > assumed was for the GLR. If it was for something that wasn't a
            > > government or movement contrary to ours, I believe all would have
            > > been left alone. IF it was contrary, I think there would be a
            > > conflict and we would have asked that this conflict be remedied.
            I
            > > don't think we solved the problem correctly. In the future, if
            > > someone finds something that might be in conflict to our mission,
            I
            > > believe we should politely ask the person to explain if
            > > this "possible" conflict is in fact that, a conflict. To accuse
            > > someone and "demand" an answer within a certain timeline, I think
            > the
            > > person would have no other response but to be hostile. These are
            > > trying times, my fellow legislators.... we need to move with
            > passion,
            > > but also with smarts.
            > >
            > > This message isn't meant to be a critique or accuse anyone of
            > > anything. This is just my observation on this ordeal and how I
            > think
            > > it could have been handled better.
            > >
            > > I think we need to add a clause to our constitution stating that
            > any
            > > actions that run contrary to the mission of the Gay Lesbian
            Kingdom
            > > shall be not allowed. Any actions seen as a conflict need to be
            > > explained and remedied if said actions are in fact deemed a
            > conflict.
            > >
            > > This way we have a set guideline, and a way to ask the person to
            > > explain themselves without being accusatory and causing grief and
            > > anger to be present. That way future "assumed" conflicts won't
            > cause
            > > people to resign their posts before a "real" conflict has been
            > > established. We need to be able to move forward, and if we keep
            > > loosing people the mission won't be able to continue. For now we
            > > might be able to keep a quorum without Gunnar, but in the future
            if
            > > our attitudes and the way we ask information of others, we may
            > loose
            > > too many people and our mission will be stalled. 
            > >
            > > And for Gunnar to compare our tactics to that of Nazi's is a
            scary
            > > thought. I think using those words was a tad strong, especially
            to
            > > this Jew. But as we say, each person is entitled to his/her
            > opinion,
            > > and our actions and the way we handled them may have provoked
            this
            > > response.
            > >
            > > Just a thought... or two  ;0)
            > >
            > >
            > > www.neonjase.com
            > > -------Original Message-------
            > >
            > > From: Jon Matlick
            > > Date: 04/26/05 22:03:56
            > > To: Louis Trusty; Dallas Vinson; Dan Fowler; Enrique J P�rez;
            > > Gunter
            > > Knesebeck; Gunter Van C; Jack Blue; Jason Ruel; Karress Rhodes
            > > Cc: William Freeman; Bill Freeman; Joe Grande
            > > Subject: Gunnar has resigned
            > >
            > >
            > > G�nter,
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > Your resignation has been accepted.
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > Jon Matlick
            > >
            > > Lord Protector
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > GLR Forum
            > >
            > > Gunnar 
            > >
            > > Administrator
            > > Jr. Member
            > > Offline
            > >
            > > Gender: 
            > > Posts: 3
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > Counter Intelligencene against Mindcontrolling
            > >
            > > � on: Today at 19:22:54 �
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > This is a special post for some guys of the old gaykingdom group.
            > > It's in the meantime a proven fact, that they come here and try
            to
            > > find out about the "government" of the GLR. At the Moment, such a
            > > government does not exist. But it appears to be kinda hostile
            > > activity against the gay kingdom, to be an Administrator in here.
            > > This needs some explaination. The group I'm referring to is a
            group
            > > claiming to consist out of the members of the United Gay Tribe.
            > There
            > > are currently no laws, which would disallow to work for other
            > > Organisations as well. To me, being a born German, it looks like
            > the
            > > Blockwart behavoir in the Nazi Era. In Germany this is over. If
            > > the "Gay Kingdom" wants to continue this, well... . I'm afraid I
            > > can't be proud any longer being gay.
            > > I am deeply ashamed because I have supported the Idea of the Gay
            > > Kingdom before. So I will stop this support immediately. I don't
            > want
            > > to have anything to do with people behaving and acting like
            Nazis.
            > > The "Gay" Kingdom should be deeply ashamed to use the word "gay"
            in
            > > it's Name. It doesn't forward the interests of LGBT people. It's
            > > simply a Role game (you can subscribe to it - special offer $50).
            > > Finally, and for the official records of the gay kingdom: I
            resign
            > > from my post as a member of the legislative Assembly.
            > > Usually i stick to my word. But if I have to recognize later,
            that
            > I
            > > have given my Word to Nazis, which are into all but gay rights,
            > which
            > > are to control (!) what I do and what I think - NO, THANKS
            > > I hope you all appreciate my point of view.
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >    
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          • Donald Clark
            sorry I use Dons email address since we are partners. Chris ... From: Jase To: gaykingdom@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2005 2:47 PM Subject: Re:
            Message 5 of 18 , Apr 28, 2005
            • 0 Attachment
              sorry I use Dons email address since we are partners.
               
               
              Chris
              ----- Original Message -----
              From: Jase
              Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2005 2:47 PM
              Subject: Re: [gaykingdom] Re: Gunnar has resigned

              Chris, or Don, whomever responded :0)
               
              I only felt the need to comment since my name was specifically mentioned in the email with reference to comparing us to Nazi's.
               
              If you didn't mean me, then I am sorry, I misread your words.
               
              Tell Don hi for me, and he is constantly in my prayers. I hope they find something to help him that doesn't cause so much damage or pain. 
               
              -------Original Message-------
               
              Date: 04/28/05 13:34:55
              Subject: Re: [gaykingdom] Re: Gunnar has resigned
               
              I wasnt comparing you,itisothermembers that were jsut elected, and they know whom they are.
              Donald W Clark II
               
              ----- Original Message -----
              From: Jase
              Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2005 2:04 PM
              Subject: Re: [gaykingdom] Re: Gunnar has resigned

              Chris,
               
              As a recently elected member of parliament, please do not compare me with previous acts committed by previous parliaments. I believe if you had the entire conversation you will see I never once accused him of anything, nor anyone else. I never once called someone a traitor, and I, on numerous occasions cautioned the other members of the MP, PC, and anyone else involved to word their words wisely and make sure something that was a conflict of interest was actually there. Please learn all the facts before you name someone as a culprit of doing something. In fact, Gunnar thanks me for my words many times in this conversation which you were not privy to, but for the last message.
               
              And once again, lets not call people Nazi's.. for this Jew will never, and has never been one, will be one, or appreciates ever being called one.
               
              These are my opinions and hurt, and no one else's. 
               
              -------Original Message-------
               
              From: wyn_chrs
              Date: 04/28/05 00:11:09
              Subject: [gaykingdom] Re: Gunnar has resigned
               
              Not Again,
               
              Hello You all dont  know me but  you will because I am going to
              introduce myself to you, My name is Chris, I am Don Clarks Partner,
              he used to be a member of the Government,but he resigned due to the
              fact that you all just fight and that there was no real freedom of
              speech here or any freedom, I stayed because I believed that this
              could be a great thing and that the idea was a real good thing, but I
              am begining to rethink that now.  all I am seeing is a group of
              people hell bent on the idea that they are right and if you dont
              believe in what they do or dont do what they want you to or say what
              you want them to, then they are wrong they are traitors or they have
              commited High crimes of treason against the crown. If some one, Like
              my partner or Gunner or Jaix dint agree with Bill or joe. or Jon or
              Jase or any other member of the Puupet sham of parliment, then they
              are commiting High Treason or They should just be banned from the
              group and that thier citesinshipto the GLK revocted, So I ask you,
              How is this any different then what the NAZIS did? If you could have
              people shot for disagreeing with you I am not so sure you wouldnt do
              it. I think the anology or the Nazis is a good one. I personally at
              this time think that this "country" or group is on a very wrong
              track, this is a "country" that is no better then that of a
              dictorship, this is a group that has a sham of a "king" which is
              really just the puppet of a supreme court Judge Bill, who has the
              advisors of a privy council, But it all just a sham a front for a
              dictator named Bill Freeman.  this is no better then what we have
              here in The USA with our current President George Bush, when Bush
              doesnt get what he wants he just changes the rules,  if you dontagree
              with him then he does something to get rid of you or does something
              to change the laws, no different then what is going on here.  You all
              will disagree with me, and Bill or another Member of the Puppet
              government will proably ban me, bit I needed to say this.
               
              I dont want to leave, I want to stay and really see if this can get
              off the ground, I want to stay and have you all prove me and Don
              wrong, I really want to believe that this is a free country and that
              this is a refuge to all gay people around the world, Prove me wrong I
              dare all of you
               
              Chris
               
               
               
               
              > ADVERTISEMENT
               
               
              Thanks again, Jase.
               
              Very insightful. But i have been called a traitor in this group. That
              is a proven fact. Find the Forum Jon quoted from right here:
              you get a copy not worked on.
               
              Best regards to you all
              Günter Knesebeck
              technically MLA still - (I didn't sent a resignation to the Lord
              Protector, nor to the President of the Assembly. But according to
              existing law in the GLK i have to do this) - but that's really
              technically. Sadly enough, I had to find out that something like
              a "Law", as we call it usually, is not in use in the GLK. Same
              situations threatened differently, both founded on the same law, is
              more than a bit strange. And a reason to resign indeed. So for all,
              and  for Joe Grande's special joy an excitement, I resign. I really
              do hope you can bring the Issue forward. I will for sure do. Best
              wishes to all (including Joe Grande) in general and to Jase, Bill,
              and Jon in particular.
               
               
               
              At 22:58 27.04.05, Jase wrote:
               
              Oy, Just what we need.... another scandal! ;0)
               
              I don't think anyone ever called Gunnar a traitor. Merely questions
              were raised about his doing by-laws for another group which we
              assumed was for the GLR. If it was for something that wasn't a
              government or movement contrary to ours, I believe all would have
              been left alone. IF it was contrary, I think there would be a
              conflict and we would have asked that this conflict be remedied. I
              don't think we solved the problem correctly. In the future, if
              someone finds something that might be in conflict to our mission, I
              believe we should politely ask the person to explain if
              this "possible" conflict is in fact that, a conflict. To accuse
              someone and "demand" an answer within a certain timeline, I think the
              person would have no other response but to be hostile. These are
              trying times, my fellow legislators.... we need to move with passion,
              but also with smarts.
               
              This message isn't meant to be a critique or accuse anyone of
              anything. This is just my observation on this ordeal and how I think
              it could have been handled better.
               
              I think we need to add a clause to our constitution stating that any
              actions that run contrary to the mission of the Gay Lesbian Kingdom
              shall be not allowed. Any actions seen as a conflict need to be
              explained and remedied if said actions are in fact deemed a conflict.
               
              This way we have a set guideline, and a way to ask the person to
              explain themselves without being accusatory and causing grief and
              anger to be present. That way future "assumed" conflicts won't cause
              people to resign their posts before a "real" conflict has been
              established. We need to be able to move forward, and if we keep
              loosing people the mission won't be able to continue. For now we
              might be able to keep a quorum without Gunnar, but in the future if
              our attitudes and the way we ask information of others, we may loose
              too many people and our mission will be stalled.
               
              And for Gunnar to compare our tactics to that of Nazi's is a scary
              thought. I think using those words was a tad strong, especially to
              this Jew. But as we say, each person is entitled to his/her opinion,
              and our actions and the way we handled them may have provoked this
              response.
               
              Just a thought... or two  ;0)
               
               
              -------Original Message-------
               
              From: Jon Matlick
              Date: 04/26/05 22:03:56
              To: Louis Trusty; Dallas Vinson; Dan Fowler; Enrique J Pérez;
              Gunter
              Knesebeck; Gunter Van C; Jack Blue; Jason Ruel; Karress Rhodes
              Cc: William Freeman; Bill Freeman; Joe Grande
              Subject: Gunnar has resigned
               
               
              Günter,
               
               
               
                Your resignation has been accepted.
               
               
               
              Jon Matlick
               
              Lord Protector
               
               
               
              GLR Forum
               
              Gunnar
               
              Administrator
              Jr. Member
              Offline
               
              Gender:
              Posts: 3
               
               
               
               
               
              Counter Intelligencene against Mindcontrolling
               
              « on: Today at 19:22:54 »
               
               
               
               
               
               
              This is a special post for some guys of the old gaykingdom group.
              It's in the meantime a proven fact, that they come here and try to
              find out about the "government" of the GLR. At the Moment, such a
              government does not exist. But it appears to be kinda hostile
              activity against the gay kingdom, to be an Administrator in here.
              This needs some explaination. The group I'm referring to is a group
              claiming to consist out of the members of the United Gay Tribe. There
              are currently no laws, which would disallow to work for other
              Organisations as well. To me, being a born German, it looks like the
              Blockwart behavoir in the Nazi Era. In Germany this is over. If
              the "Gay Kingdom" wants to continue this, well... . I'm afraid I
              can't be proud any longer being gay.
              I am deeply ashamed because I have supported the Idea of the Gay
              Kingdom before. So I will stop this support immediately. I don't want
              to have anything to do with people behaving and acting like Nazis.
              The "Gay" Kingdom should be deeply ashamed to use the word "gay" in
              it's Name. It doesn't forward the interests of LGBT people. It's
              simply a Role game (you can subscribe to it - special offer $50).
              Finally, and for the official records of the gay kingdom: I resign
              from my post as a member of the legislative Assembly.
              Usually i stick to my word. But if I have to recognize later, that I
              have given my Word to Nazis, which are into all but gay rights, which
              are to control (!) what I do and what I think - NO, THANKS
              I hope you all appreciate my point of view.
               
               
               
               
               
               
               
               
               
               
               
               
               
               
               
               
              Up Thread | Message Index | View Source | Unwrap Lines  Message 1989
              of 1989  < Previous  |  Next >
                Message #   Search:
               
               
               
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              Privacy Policy - Copyright/IP Policy - Terms of Service - Guidelines -
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            • Jase
              Chris, or Don, whomever responded :0) I only felt the need to comment since my name was specifically mentioned in the email with reference to comparing us to
              Message 6 of 18 , Apr 28, 2005
              • 0 Attachment
                Chris, or Don, whomever responded :0)
                 
                I only felt the need to comment since my name was specifically mentioned in the email with reference to comparing us to Nazi's.
                 
                If you didn't mean me, then I am sorry, I misread your words.
                 
                Tell Don hi for me, and he is constantly in my prayers. I hope they find something to help him that doesn't cause so much damage or pain. 
                 
                -------Original Message-------
                 
                Date: 04/28/05 13:34:55
                Subject: Re: [gaykingdom] Re: Gunnar has resigned
                 
                I wasnt comparing you,itisothermembers that were jsut elected, and they know whom they are.
                Donald W Clark II
                 
                ----- Original Message -----
                From: Jase
                Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2005 2:04 PM
                Subject: Re: [gaykingdom] Re: Gunnar has resigned

                Chris,
                 
                As a recently elected member of parliament, please do not compare me with previous acts committed by previous parliaments. I believe if you had the entire conversation you will see I never once accused him of anything, nor anyone else. I never once called someone a traitor, and I, on numerous occasions cautioned the other members of the MP, PC, and anyone else involved to word their words wisely and make sure something that was a conflict of interest was actually there. Please learn all the facts before you name someone as a culprit of doing something. In fact, Gunnar thanks me for my words many times in this conversation which you were not privy to, but for the last message.
                 
                And once again, lets not call people Nazi's.. for this Jew will never, and has never been one, will be one, or appreciates ever being called one.
                 
                These are my opinions and hurt, and no one else's. 
                 
                -------Original Message-------
                 
                From: wyn_chrs
                Date: 04/28/05 00:11:09
                Subject: [gaykingdom] Re: Gunnar has resigned
                 
                Not Again,
                 
                Hello You all dont  know me but  you will because I am going to
                introduce myself to you, My name is Chris, I am Don Clarks Partner,
                he used to be a member of the Government,but he resigned due to the
                fact that you all just fight and that there was no real freedom of
                speech here or any freedom, I stayed because I believed that this
                could be a great thing and that the idea was a real good thing, but I
                am begining to rethink that now.  all I am seeing is a group of
                people hell bent on the idea that they are right and if you dont
                believe in what they do or dont do what they want you to or say what
                you want them to, then they are wrong they are traitors or they have
                commited High crimes of treason against the crown. If some one, Like
                my partner or Gunner or Jaix dint agree with Bill or joe. or Jon or
                Jase or any other member of the Puupet sham of parliment, then they
                are commiting High Treason or They should just be banned from the
                group and that thier citesinshipto the GLK revocted, So I ask you,
                How is this any different then what the NAZIS did? If you could have
                people shot for disagreeing with you I am not so sure you wouldnt do
                it. I think the anology or the Nazis is a good one. I personally at
                this time think that this "country" or group is on a very wrong
                track, this is a "country" that is no better then that of a
                dictorship, this is a group that has a sham of a "king" which is
                really just the puppet of a supreme court Judge Bill, who has the
                advisors of a privy council, But it all just a sham a front for a
                dictator named Bill Freeman.  this is no better then what we have
                here in The USA with our current President George Bush, when Bush
                doesnt get what he wants he just changes the rules,  if you dontagree
                with him then he does something to get rid of you or does something
                to change the laws, no different then what is going on here.  You all
                will disagree with me, and Bill or another Member of the Puppet
                government will proably ban me, bit I needed to say this.
                 
                I dont want to leave, I want to stay and really see if this can get
                off the ground, I want to stay and have you all prove me and Don
                wrong, I really want to believe that this is a free country and that
                this is a refuge to all gay people around the world, Prove me wrong I
                dare all of you
                 
                Chris
                 
                 
                 
                 
                > ADVERTISEMENT
                 
                 
                Thanks again, Jase.
                 
                Very insightful. But i have been called a traitor in this group. That
                is a proven fact. Find the Forum Jon quoted from right here:
                you get a copy not worked on.
                 
                Best regards to you all
                Günter Knesebeck
                technically MLA still - (I didn't sent a resignation to the Lord
                Protector, nor to the President of the Assembly. But according to
                existing law in the GLK i have to do this) - but that's really
                technically. Sadly enough, I had to find out that something like
                a "Law", as we call it usually, is not in use in the GLK. Same
                situations threatened differently, both founded on the same law, is
                more than a bit strange. And a reason to resign indeed. So for all,
                and  for Joe Grande's special joy an excitement, I resign. I really
                do hope you can bring the Issue forward. I will for sure do. Best
                wishes to all (including Joe Grande) in general and to Jase, Bill,
                and Jon in particular.
                 
                 
                 
                At 22:58 27.04.05, Jase wrote:
                 
                Oy, Just what we need.... another scandal! ;0)
                 
                I don't think anyone ever called Gunnar a traitor. Merely questions
                were raised about his doing by-laws for another group which we
                assumed was for the GLR. If it was for something that wasn't a
                government or movement contrary to ours, I believe all would have
                been left alone. IF it was contrary, I think there would be a
                conflict and we would have asked that this conflict be remedied. I
                don't think we solved the problem correctly. In the future, if
                someone finds something that might be in conflict to our mission, I
                believe we should politely ask the person to explain if
                this "possible" conflict is in fact that, a conflict. To accuse
                someone and "demand" an answer within a certain timeline, I think the
                person would have no other response but to be hostile. These are
                trying times, my fellow legislators.... we need to move with passion,
                but also with smarts.
                 
                This message isn't meant to be a critique or accuse anyone of
                anything. This is just my observation on this ordeal and how I think
                it could have been handled better.
                 
                I think we need to add a clause to our constitution stating that any
                actions that run contrary to the mission of the Gay Lesbian Kingdom
                shall be not allowed. Any actions seen as a conflict need to be
                explained and remedied if said actions are in fact deemed a conflict.
                 
                This way we have a set guideline, and a way to ask the person to
                explain themselves without being accusatory and causing grief and
                anger to be present. That way future "assumed" conflicts won't cause
                people to resign their posts before a "real" conflict has been
                established. We need to be able to move forward, and if we keep
                loosing people the mission won't be able to continue. For now we
                might be able to keep a quorum without Gunnar, but in the future if
                our attitudes and the way we ask information of others, we may loose
                too many people and our mission will be stalled.
                 
                And for Gunnar to compare our tactics to that of Nazi's is a scary
                thought. I think using those words was a tad strong, especially to
                this Jew. But as we say, each person is entitled to his/her opinion,
                and our actions and the way we handled them may have provoked this
                response.
                 
                Just a thought... or two  ;0)
                 
                 
                -------Original Message-------
                 
                From: Jon Matlick
                Date: 04/26/05 22:03:56
                To: Louis Trusty; Dallas Vinson; Dan Fowler; Enrique J Pérez;
                Gunter
                Knesebeck; Gunter Van C; Jack Blue; Jason Ruel; Karress Rhodes
                Cc: William Freeman; Bill Freeman; Joe Grande
                Subject: Gunnar has resigned
                 
                 
                Günter,
                 
                 
                 
                  Your resignation has been accepted.
                 
                 
                 
                Jon Matlick
                 
                Lord Protector
                 
                 
                 
                GLR Forum
                 
                Gunnar
                 
                Administrator
                Jr. Member
                Offline
                 
                Gender:
                Posts: 3
                 
                 
                 
                 
                 
                Counter Intelligencene against Mindcontrolling
                 
                « on: Today at 19:22:54 »
                 
                 
                 
                 
                 
                 
                This is a special post for some guys of the old gaykingdom group.
                It's in the meantime a proven fact, that they come here and try to
                find out about the "government" of the GLR. At the Moment, such a
                government does not exist. But it appears to be kinda hostile
                activity against the gay kingdom, to be an Administrator in here.
                This needs some explaination. The group I'm referring to is a group
                claiming to consist out of the members of the United Gay Tribe. There
                are currently no laws, which would disallow to work for other
                Organisations as well. To me, being a born German, it looks like the
                Blockwart behavoir in the Nazi Era. In Germany this is over. If
                the "Gay Kingdom" wants to continue this, well... . I'm afraid I
                can't be proud any longer being gay.
                I am deeply ashamed because I have supported the Idea of the Gay
                Kingdom before. So I will stop this support immediately. I don't want
                to have anything to do with people behaving and acting like Nazis.
                The "Gay" Kingdom should be deeply ashamed to use the word "gay" in
                it's Name. It doesn't forward the interests of LGBT people. It's
                simply a Role game (you can subscribe to it - special offer $50).
                Finally, and for the official records of the gay kingdom: I resign
                from my post as a member of the legislative Assembly.
                Usually i stick to my word. But if I have to recognize later, that I
                have given my Word to Nazis, which are into all but gay rights, which
                are to control (!) what I do and what I think - NO, THANKS
                I hope you all appreciate my point of view.
                 
                 
                 
                 
                 
                 
                 
                 
                 
                 
                 
                 
                 
                 
                 
                 
                Up Thread | Message Index | View Source | Unwrap Lines  Message 1989
                of 1989  < Previous  |  Next >
                  Message #   Search:
                 
                 
                 
                ----------------------------------------------------------------------
                ----------
                 
                Copyright © 2005 Yahoo! Inc. All rights reserved.
                Privacy Policy - Copyright/IP Policy - Terms of Service - Guidelines -
                  Help
                 
                 
                 
                 
                 
                 
                 
                 
                 
                 
                ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~-->
                Give the gift of life to a sick child.
                Support St. Jude Children's Research Hospital's 'Thanks & Giving.'
                --------------------------------------------------------------------~->
                 
                 
                Yahoo! Groups Links
                 
                <*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
                 
                <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                 
                <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
                 
                 
                 
                 
                 
                 
                 
              • wyn_chrs
                Jase, jase I do see that I did mention you in my posting, but I only meant that you are a member of the parliment which is truly a sham and really just a
                Message 7 of 18 , Apr 28, 2005
                • 0 Attachment
                  Jase,

                  jase I do see that I did mention you in my posting, but I only meant
                  that you are a member of the parliment which is truly a sham and
                  really just a puppet for Bill, and that certain members of
                  parliment, Dallas, enrique, Dan, and certain other Members if you
                  disagree with them they yell foul. I believe that The Parliment will
                  not acomplish anything as long as the government is a dictatorship
                  rather then a real republic.

                  bieng democratic doesnt mean that you cant have a monaracacy look at
                  England they are democratic yet they have a queen, here we have a
                  dictator.

                  And I do believe that there are members in this group that have acted
                  just like the Nazis, and I will say that they have also acted just
                  like President Bush, silencing those who diagree with his views,
                  changing the rules when he doesnt get his way, and I will continue to
                  say this, and I am sorry if this makes you uncomfortable but in my
                  opionion this is the truth and how I feel.

                  I am hoping that I Can be proven wrong.


                  --- In gaykingdom@yahoogroups.com, "Jase" <neonjase@l...> wrote:
                  > Chris,
                  >
                  > As a recently elected member of parliament, please do not compare
                  me with
                  > previous acts committed by previous parliaments. I believe if you
                  had the
                  > entire conversation you will see I never once accused him of
                  anything, nor
                  > anyone else. I never once called someone a traitor, and I, on
                  numerous
                  > occasions cautioned the other members of the MP, PC, and anyone else
                  > involved to word their words wisely and make sure something that
                  was a
                  > conflict of interest was actually there. Please learn all the facts
                  before
                  > you name someone as a culprit of doing something. In fact, Gunnar
                  thanks me
                  > for my words many times in this conversation which you were not
                  privy to,
                  > but for the last message.
                  >
                  > And once again, lets not call people Nazi's.. for this Jew will
                  never, and
                  > has never been one, will be one, or appreciates ever being called
                  one.
                  >
                  > These are my opinions and hurt, and no one else's.
                  >
                  >
                  > www.neonjase.com
                  > -------Original Message-------
                  >
                  > From: wyn_chrs
                  > Date: 04/28/05 00:11:09
                  > To: gaykingdom@yahoogroups.com
                  > Subject: [gaykingdom] Re: Gunnar has resigned
                  >
                  > Not Again,
                  >
                  > Hello You all dont know me but you will because I am going to
                  > introduce myself to you, My name is Chris, I am Don Clarks Partner,
                  > he used to be a member of the Government,but he resigned due to the
                  > fact that you all just fight and that there was no real freedom of
                  > speech here or any freedom, I stayed because I believed that this
                  > could be a great thing and that the idea was a real good thing, but
                  I
                  > am begining to rethink that now. all I am seeing is a group of
                  > people hell bent on the idea that they are right and if you dont
                  > believe in what they do or dont do what they want you to or say what
                  > you want them to, then they are wrong they are traitors or they have
                  > commited High crimes of treason against the crown. If some one, Like
                  > my partner or Gunner or Jaix dint agree with Bill or joe. or Jon or
                  > Jase or any other member of the Puupet sham of parliment, then they
                  > are commiting High Treason or They should just be banned from the
                  > group and that thier citesinshipto the GLK revocted, So I ask you,
                  > How is this any different then what the NAZIS did? If you could have
                  > people shot for disagreeing with you I am not so sure you wouldnt do
                  > it. I think the anology or the Nazis is a good one. I personally at
                  > this time think that this "country" or group is on a very wrong
                  > track, this is a "country" that is no better then that of a
                  > dictorship, this is a group that has a sham of a "king" which is
                  > really just the puppet of a supreme court Judge Bill, who has the
                  > advisors of a privy council, But it all just a sham a front for a
                  > dictator named Bill Freeman. this is no better then what we have
                  > here in The USA with our current President George Bush, when Bush
                  > doesnt get what he wants he just changes the rules, if you
                  dontagree
                  > with him then he does something to get rid of you or does something
                  > to change the laws, no different then what is going on here. You
                  all
                  > will disagree with me, and Bill or another Member of the Puppet
                  > government will proably ban me, bit I needed to say this.
                  >
                  > I dont want to leave, I want to stay and really see if this can get
                  > off the ground, I want to stay and have you all prove me and Don
                  > wrong, I really want to believe that this is a free country and that
                  > this is a refuge to all gay people around the world, Prove me wrong
                  I
                  > dare all of you
                  >
                  > Chris
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > --- In gaykingdom@yahoogroups.com, redaktion.knesebeck@g... wrote:
                  > > ADVERTISEMENT
                  >
                  >
                  > Thanks again, Jase.
                  >
                  > Very insightful. But i have been called a traitor in this group.
                  That
                  > is a proven fact. Find the Forum Jon quoted from right here:
                  > http://thelastbaron.com/index.php?topic=11.0 - just to make sure
                  that
                  > you get a copy not worked on.
                  >
                  > Best regards to you all
                  > Günter Knesebeck
                  > technically MLA still - (I didn't sent a resignation to the Lord
                  > Protector, nor to the President of the Assembly. But according to
                  > existing law in the GLK i have to do this) - but that's really
                  > technically. Sadly enough, I had to find out that something like
                  > a "Law", as we call it usually, is not in use in the GLK. Same
                  > situations threatened differently, both founded on the same law, is
                  > more than a bit strange. And a reason to resign indeed. So for all,
                  > and for Joe Grande's special joy an excitement, I resign. I really
                  > do hope you can bring the Issue forward. I will for sure do. Best
                  > wishes to all (including Joe Grande) in general and to Jase, Bill,
                  > and Jon in particular.
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > At 22:58 27.04.05, Jase wrote:
                  >
                  > Oy, Just what we need.... another scandal! ;0)
                  >
                  > I don't think anyone ever called Gunnar a traitor. Merely questions
                  > were raised about his doing by-laws for another group which we
                  > assumed was for the GLR. If it was for something that wasn't a
                  > government or movement contrary to ours, I believe all would have
                  > been left alone. IF it was contrary, I think there would be a
                  > conflict and we would have asked that this conflict be remedied. I
                  > don't think we solved the problem correctly. In the future, if
                  > someone finds something that might be in conflict to our mission, I
                  > believe we should politely ask the person to explain if
                  > this "possible" conflict is in fact that, a conflict. To accuse
                  > someone and "demand" an answer within a certain timeline, I think
                  the
                  > person would have no other response but to be hostile. These are
                  > trying times, my fellow legislators.... we need to move with
                  passion,
                  > but also with smarts.
                  >
                  > This message isn't meant to be a critique or accuse anyone of
                  > anything. This is just my observation on this ordeal and how I think
                  > it could have been handled better.
                  >
                  > I think we need to add a clause to our constitution stating that any
                  > actions that run contrary to the mission of the Gay Lesbian Kingdom
                  > shall be not allowed. Any actions seen as a conflict need to be
                  > explained and remedied if said actions are in fact deemed a
                  conflict.
                  >
                  > This way we have a set guideline, and a way to ask the person to
                  > explain themselves without being accusatory and causing grief and
                  > anger to be present. That way future "assumed" conflicts won't cause
                  > people to resign their posts before a "real" conflict has been
                  > established. We need to be able to move forward, and if we keep
                  > loosing people the mission won't be able to continue. For now we
                  > might be able to keep a quorum without Gunnar, but in the future if
                  > our attitudes and the way we ask information of others, we may loose
                  > too many people and our mission will be stalled.
                  >
                  > And for Gunnar to compare our tactics to that of Nazi's is a scary
                  > thought. I think using those words was a tad strong, especially to
                  > this Jew. But as we say, each person is entitled to his/her opinion,
                  > and our actions and the way we handled them may have provoked this
                  > response.
                  >
                  > Just a thought... or two ;0)
                  >
                  >
                  > www.neonjase.com
                  > -------Original Message-------
                  >
                  > From: Jon Matlick
                  > Date: 04/26/05 22:03:56
                  > To: Louis Trusty; Dallas Vinson; Dan Fowler; Enrique J Pérez;
                  > Gunter
                  > Knesebeck; Gunter Van C; Jack Blue; Jason Ruel; Karress Rhodes
                  > Cc: William Freeman; Bill Freeman; Joe Grande
                  > Subject: Gunnar has resigned
                  >
                  >
                  > Günter,
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Your resignation has been accepted.
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Jon Matlick
                  >
                  > Lord Protector
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > GLR Forum
                  >
                  > Gunnar
                  >
                  > Administrator
                  > Jr. Member
                  > Offline
                  >
                  > Gender:
                  > Posts: 3
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Counter Intelligencene against Mindcontrolling
                  >
                  > « on: Today at 19:22:54 »
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > This is a special post for some guys of the old gaykingdom group.
                  > It's in the meantime a proven fact, that they come here and try to
                  > find out about the "government" of the GLR. At the Moment, such a
                  > government does not exist. But it appears to be kinda hostile
                  > activity against the gay kingdom, to be an Administrator in here.
                  > This needs some explaination. The group I'm referring to is a group
                  > claiming to consist out of the members of the United Gay Tribe.
                  There
                  > are currently no laws, which would disallow to work for other
                  > Organisations as well. To me, being a born German, it looks like the
                  > Blockwart behavoir in the Nazi Era. In Germany this is over. If
                  > the "Gay Kingdom" wants to continue this, well... . I'm afraid I
                  > can't be proud any longer being gay.
                  > I am deeply ashamed because I have supported the Idea of the Gay
                  > Kingdom before. So I will stop this support immediately. I don't
                  want
                  > to have anything to do with people behaving and acting like Nazis.
                  > The "Gay" Kingdom should be deeply ashamed to use the word "gay" in
                  > it's Name. It doesn't forward the interests of LGBT people. It's
                  > simply a Role game (you can subscribe to it - special offer $50).
                  > Finally, and for the official records of the gay kingdom: I resign
                  > from my post as a member of the legislative Assembly.
                  > Usually i stick to my word. But if I have to recognize later, that I
                  > have given my Word to Nazis, which are into all but gay rights,
                  which
                  > are to control (!) what I do and what I think - NO, THANKS
                  > I hope you all appreciate my point of view.
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
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                • Jase
                  no problem! I was just confused there for a moment! LOL www.neonjase.com ... From: Donald Clark Date: 04/28/05 14:01:56 To: gaykingdom@yahoogroups.com
                  Message 8 of 18 , Apr 28, 2005
                  • 0 Attachment
                    no problem!  I was just confused there for a moment!  LOL 
                     
                    -------Original Message-------
                     
                    Date: 04/28/05 14:01:56
                    Subject: Re: [gaykingdom] Re: Gunnar has resigned
                     
                    sorry I use Dons email address since we are partners.
                     
                     
                    Chris
                    ----- Original Message -----
                    From: Jase
                    Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2005 2:47 PM
                    Subject: Re: [gaykingdom] Re: Gunnar has resigned

                    Chris, or Don, whomever responded :0)
                     
                    I only felt the need to comment since my name was specifically mentioned in the email with reference to comparing us to Nazi's.
                     
                    If you didn't mean me, then I am sorry, I misread your words.
                     
                    Tell Don hi for me, and he is constantly in my prayers. I hope they find something to help him that doesn't cause so much damage or pain. 
                     
                    -------Original Message-------
                     
                    Date: 04/28/05 13:34:55
                    Subject: Re: [gaykingdom] Re: Gunnar has resigned
                     
                    I wasnt comparing you,itisothermembers that were jsut elected, and they know whom they are.
                    Donald W Clark II
                     
                    ----- Original Message -----
                    From: Jase
                    Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2005 2:04 PM
                    Subject: Re: [gaykingdom] Re: Gunnar has resigned

                    Chris,
                     
                    As a recently elected member of parliament, please do not compare me with previous acts committed by previous parliaments. I believe if you had the entire conversation you will see I never once accused him of anything, nor anyone else. I never once called someone a traitor, and I, on numerous occasions cautioned the other members of the MP, PC, and anyone else involved to word their words wisely and make sure something that was a conflict of interest was actually there. Please learn all the facts before you name someone as a culprit of doing something. In fact, Gunnar thanks me for my words many times in this conversation which you were not privy to, but for the last message.
                     
                    And once again, lets not call people Nazi's.. for this Jew will never, and has never been one, will be one, or appreciates ever being called one.
                     
                    These are my opinions and hurt, and no one else's. 
                     
                    -------Original Message-------
                     
                    From: wyn_chrs
                    Date: 04/28/05 00:11:09
                    Subject: [gaykingdom] Re: Gunnar has resigned
                     
                    Not Again,
                     
                    Hello You all dont  know me but  you will because I am going to
                    introduce myself to you, My name is Chris, I am Don Clarks Partner,
                    he used to be a member of the Government,but he resigned due to the
                    fact that you all just fight and that there was no real freedom of
                    speech here or any freedom, I stayed because I believed that this
                    could be a great thing and that the idea was a real good thing, but I
                    am begining to rethink that now.  all I am seeing is a group of
                    people hell bent on the idea that they are right and if you dont
                    believe in what they do or dont do what they want you to or say what
                    you want them to, then they are wrong they are traitors or they have
                    commited High crimes of treason against the crown. If some one, Like
                    my partner or Gunner or Jaix dint agree with Bill or joe. or Jon or
                    Jase or any other member of the Puupet sham of parliment, then they
                    are commiting High Treason or They should just be banned from the
                    group and that thier citesinshipto the GLK revocted, So I ask you,
                    How is this any different then what the NAZIS did? If you could have
                    people shot for disagreeing with you I am not so sure you wouldnt do
                    it. I think the anology or the Nazis is a good one. I personally at
                    this time think that this "country" or group is on a very wrong
                    track, this is a "country" that is no better then that of a
                    dictorship, this is a group that has a sham of a "king" which is
                    really just the puppet of a supreme court Judge Bill, who has the
                    advisors of a privy council, But it all just a sham a front for a
                    dictator named Bill Freeman.  this is no better then what we have
                    here in The USA with our current President George Bush, when Bush
                    doesnt get what he wants he just changes the rules,  if you dontagree
                    with him then he does something to get rid of you or does something
                    to change the laws, no different then what is going on here.  You all
                    will disagree with me, and Bill or another Member of the Puppet
                    government will proably ban me, bit I needed to say this.
                     
                    I dont want to leave, I want to stay and really see if this can get
                    off the ground, I want to stay and have you all prove me and Don
                    wrong, I really want to believe that this is a free country and that
                    this is a refuge to all gay people around the world, Prove me wrong I
                    dare all of you
                     
                    Chris
                     
                     
                     
                     
                    > ADVERTISEMENT
                     
                     
                    Thanks again, Jase.
                     
                    Very insightful. But i have been called a traitor in this group. That
                    is a proven fact. Find the Forum Jon quoted from right here:
                    you get a copy not worked on.
                     
                    Best regards to you all
                    Günter Knesebeck
                    technically MLA still - (I didn't sent a resignation to the Lord
                    Protector, nor to the President of the Assembly. But according to
                    existing law in the GLK i have to do this) - but that's really
                    technically. Sadly enough, I had to find out that something like
                    a "Law", as we call it usually, is not in use in the GLK. Same
                    situations threatened differently, both founded on the same law, is
                    more than a bit strange. And a reason to resign indeed. So for all,
                    and  for Joe Grande's special joy an excitement, I resign. I really
                    do hope you can bring the Issue forward. I will for sure do. Best
                    wishes to all (including Joe Grande) in general and to Jase, Bill,
                    and Jon in particular.
                     
                     
                     
                    At 22:58 27.04.05, Jase wrote:
                     
                    Oy, Just what we need.... another scandal! ;0)
                     
                    I don't think anyone ever called Gunnar a traitor. Merely questions
                    were raised about his doing by-laws for another group which we
                    assumed was for the GLR. If it was for something that wasn't a
                    government or movement contrary to ours, I believe all would have
                    been left alone. IF it was contrary, I think there would be a
                    conflict and we would have asked that this conflict be remedied. I
                    don't think we solved the problem correctly. In the future, if
                    someone finds something that might be in conflict to our mission, I
                    believe we should politely ask the person to explain if
                    this "possible" conflict is in fact that, a conflict. To accuse
                    someone and "demand" an answer within a certain timeline, I think the
                    person would have no other response but to be hostile. These are
                    trying times, my fellow legislators.... we need to move with passion,
                    but also with smarts.
                     
                    This message isn't meant to be a critique or accuse anyone of
                    anything. This is just my observation on this ordeal and how I think
                    it could have been handled better.
                     
                    I think we need to add a clause to our constitution stating that any
                    actions that run contrary to the mission of the Gay Lesbian Kingdom
                    shall be not allowed. Any actions seen as a conflict need to be
                    explained and remedied if said actions are in fact deemed a conflict.
                     
                    This way we have a set guideline, and a way to ask the person to
                    explain themselves without being accusatory and causing grief and
                    anger to be present. That way future "assumed" conflicts won't cause
                    people to resign their posts before a "real" conflict has been
                    established. We need to be able to move forward, and if we keep
                    loosing people the mission won't be able to continue. For now we
                    might be able to keep a quorum without Gunnar, but in the future if
                    our attitudes and the way we ask information of others, we may loose
                    too many people and our mission will be stalled.
                     
                    And for Gunnar to compare our tactics to that of Nazi's is a scary
                    thought. I think using those words was a tad strong, especially to
                    this Jew. But as we say, each person is entitled to his/her opinion,
                    and our actions and the way we handled them may have provoked this
                    response.
                     
                    Just a thought... or two  ;0)
                     
                     
                    -------Original Message-------
                     
                    From: Jon Matlick
                    Date: 04/26/05 22:03:56
                    To: Louis Trusty; Dallas Vinson; Dan Fowler; Enrique J Pérez;
                    Gunter
                    Knesebeck; Gunter Van C; Jack Blue; Jason Ruel; Karress Rhodes
                    Cc: William Freeman; Bill Freeman; Joe Grande
                    Subject: Gunnar has resigned
                     
                     
                    Günter,
                     
                     
                     
                      Your resignation has been accepted.
                     
                     
                     
                    Jon Matlick
                     
                    Lord Protector
                     
                     
                     
                    GLR Forum
                     
                    Gunnar
                     
                    Administrator
                    Jr. Member
                    Offline
                     
                    Gender:
                    Posts: 3
                     
                     
                     
                     
                     
                    Counter Intelligencene against Mindcontrolling
                     
                    « on: Today at 19:22:54 »
                     
                     
                     
                     
                     
                     
                    This is a special post for some guys of the old gaykingdom group.
                    It's in the meantime a proven fact, that they come here and try to
                    find out about the "government" of the GLR. At the Moment, such a
                    government does not exist. But it appears to be kinda hostile
                    activity against the gay kingdom, to be an Administrator in here.
                    This needs some explaination. The group I'm referring to is a group
                    claiming to consist out of the members of the United Gay Tribe. There
                    are currently no laws, which would disallow to work for other
                    Organisations as well. To me, being a born German, it looks like the
                    Blockwart behavoir in the Nazi Era. In Germany this is over. If
                    the "Gay Kingdom" wants to continue this, well... . I'm afraid I
                    can't be proud any longer being gay.
                    I am deeply ashamed because I have supported the Idea of the Gay
                    Kingdom before. So I will stop this support immediately. I don't want
                    to have anything to do with people behaving and acting like Nazis.
                    The "Gay" Kingdom should be deeply ashamed to use the word "gay" in
                    it's Name. It doesn't forward the interests of LGBT people. It's
                    simply a Role game (you can subscribe to it - special offer $50).
                    Finally, and for the official records of the gay kingdom: I resign
                    from my post as a member of the legislative Assembly.
                    Usually i stick to my word. But if I have to recognize later, that I
                    have given my Word to Nazis, which are into all but gay rights, which
                    are to control (!) what I do and what I think - NO, THANKS
                    I hope you all appreciate my point of view.
                     
                     
                     
                     
                     
                     
                     
                     
                     
                     
                     
                     
                     
                     
                     
                     
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                  • William J. Freeman
                    Geez, Chris, Lighten up, buddy. What do you expect from a divorce lawyer? When I m not busily damning people, I m sawing their kids in two so each parent gets
                    Message 9 of 18 , Apr 28, 2005
                    • 0 Attachment
                      Geez, Chris,
                       
                      Lighten up, buddy.
                       
                      What do you expect from a divorce lawyer?  When I'm not busily damning people, I'm sawing their kids in two
                      so each parent gets their visitation (I'm joking, of course!).
                       
                      When you get into the details of why things are the way they are, sometimes you discover things that you didn't
                      know before.  I think several people entered the GLK as elected officials with motives other than to provide good
                      and faithful service to the Kingdom.  Certainly Jaix has never hid the fact that he intended the present governments
                      overthrow.  Just because we disagreed with Jaix, and stopped that effort, doesn't mean that anyone was damned.
                       
                      I do think it is a true pity that Don's health didn't allow him to continue serving in the Assembly.  Every time that
                      I spoke with Don he was kind, gentle and understanding - and even though we may have disagreed on the
                      technical details, it was always good talking to him.  I'm sorry he came along at a time when counter-revolution
                      was a problem we had to deal with.  I'm sure he wishes things could have been different too.
                       
                      While I've got you, I would like to make arrangements to get Don's headset.  We've had a couple instances now
                      where having an extra headset for newly elected officials would have been nice.  I'd be happy to send you a
                      postage paid return box for the headset if it isn't a burden for anyone.  I've sent Jaix one several weeks ago and
                      it appears he intends to retain his headset - he hasn't sent his back.  Perhaps it is of some use to him in the
                      GLR movement. I know it is a lot to ask.
                       
                      I think that it is great that you and Don will be seeing the Dali Llama.  Please ask him to pray for and consider
                      the struggles of gay people living under oppressive conditions such as exist here in the United States.  I know
                      that Don will have his prayers and well wishes, and that they will mean a lot to him. 
                       
                      Cheers,
                       
                      -Bill Freeman
                       
                      -----Original Message-----
                      From: gaykingdom@yahoogroups.com [mailto:gaykingdom@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of wyn_chrs
                      Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2005 12:27 PM
                      To: gaykingdom@yahoogroups.com
                      Subject: [gaykingdom] Re: Gunnar has resigned

                      Joe,

                      I understand your reasoning for having a soveriegn, but when you
                      point out that it is the Privy Councils job of advising the crown, I
                      am unsure why, Bill has made it known that he and the privy council
                      are the ones making the decisions and that the crown is really just
                      for show, kind of like The Queen of England, just a figure head, so
                      this is why I feel like this is really a dictatorship not a
                      monarcarcy or a republic, and Yes I have problems with Bill, I do
                      believe that he judges people and that he is a dictator, and those
                      that dont agree with him are damned, this is my personal issues with
                      him not with the rest of you, I am hoping that this dream comes to
                      fruitation I really do.

                      Don is doing ok, he has been going through some chemo and some
                      radiation  treatments, he has been a little weak but he is doing ok,
                      he is in high spirits, and he is actually getting ready for our trip
                      to Dharmashala India, since we are both practicing Tibeatan
                      Bhuddihists, we are going to india to have a personal meeting with
                      his Holiness The Dalai Lhama, also Don will see his Tibeatan Doctor,
                      which he sees twice a year, so hopefully his doctor might be able to
                      help with some form of Tibeatan medicine, for the cancer as well as
                      Dons mediction for AIDS that he gets.  Thank you for asking I know
                      Don really appriciates it, he says to tell you all hello, and he says
                      that even though he no longer believes in this group because of his
                      own personal reasons, he says he made good friends here and he wants
                      you all to know that he thinks you all are great and to take care.


                      Chris




                      --- In gaykingdom@yahoogroups.com, Joe Grande <wsbridgeman@y...>
                      wrote:
                      > Chris;

                      > In any group there will be disagreements on policy and form.  While
                      Don and many others strongly feel the GLK should move from a Kingdom
                      to a Democracy, the fact is the GLK was formed on the premise of a
                      Kingdom with a Sovereign.  Without the Sovereign we have no claim on
                      Cato.  Without the Sovereign, those living in Australia could be
                      arrested for treason.  Those that started this dream are using the
                      laws of Australia and Great Briton to lay a claim on Cato.
                      >
                      > As for the Privy Council hindering the making of laws, it is the
                      responsibility to advise the Crown on all matters that affect the
                      Crown and the Kingdom.  The Assembly is only a part of the
                      government -- they are not the whole government.  I was always
                      willing to work with Jaix and Gunnar.  They were not willing to work
                      with me or the other members of the Privy Council.  Don, I feel, got
                      caught up in the disagreements and failed to do research on his own
                      to get all the facts.  He listened to only one side.
                      >
                      > By the way, How is Don's health?  How is he doing?
                      >
                      > Thanks for the opportunity to share my thoughts on this subject.
                      >
                      > Joe Grande
                      >
                      >
                      > wyn_chrs <dclar36@c...> wrote:
                      > Joe
                      >
                      > you are right you never personally disagreed with Don, and he has
                      > said this to me, but you as a member of "the privy Council" has
                      > disagreed with some of the ideas that he had and that he thought
                      > should be a part of this group, like the fact that he thought this
                      > should be a demoracy where the crown and the privy council should
                      > allow the elected government to make laws, not hinder them, and
                      this
                      > is what he thought the Privy council was doing.
                      >
                      > and yes some NEW members of the parliment before they became part
                      of
                      > the elected governemnt, accused DON of high treasons becuase of his
                      > thoughts and views, which is totally over the top.
                      >
                      >
                      > BUT I believe that this could be a good group
                      >
                      > Chris
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > -- In gaykingdom@yahoogroups.com, Joe Grande <wsbridgeman@y...>
                      wrote:
                      > > Sorry folks, but I can not let this go without a comment. 
                      > > 
                      > > Chris, you state, "If some one, Like my partner or Gunner or Jaix
                      > dint agree with Bill or joe. or Jon or...".
                      > > 
                      > >
                      > > I do not remember ever having a disagreement with your partner. 
                      My
                      > memory may be failing me, I am getting up in years, but I do not
                      > remember him or me disagreeing publicly on anything.  As for Jaix
                      and
                      > Gunnar, there should never be any doubt that we not once ever
                      agreed
                      > on anything.
                      > > 
                      > > From the first day Jaix and Gunnar joined this group, they
                      > disagreed 100% with what the group stood for and the founding
                      > principles.  THEY and not I are the one's that disagreed with the
                      > founding documents of the GLK.  THEY and not me are the one's that
                      > stated publicly the sovereign had to go. 
                      > > 
                      > > Treason?  I'm not sure I'm willing to get out the firing squad. 
                      > However I did not then, and I do not now, understand why anyone
                      would
                      > join this group and from the very first day do all they could to
                      tear
                      > it down and reconstruct it in a manner that was pleasing to them,
                      > eliminating the founding documents and eliminating anyone that was
                      a
                      > member before them.
                      > > 
                      > > They left voluntarily.  No one "drove them out of town on a
                      rail". 
                      > They willingly decided this world was big enough for a second, or
                      > third, GLBT country.  I have wished them all the best of luck.  I
                      > have NEVER spoken ill of them or their group.  I wish that were
                      true
                      > on their part.
                      > > 
                      > > Chris, you are always welcome to be a  member of the original
                      group
                      > working for the original GLBT country on the planet.  Your ideas
                      and
                      > constructive comments are always welcomed and solicited.  We have
                      an
                      > elected Assembly.  We have founding documents that are still in
                      force
                      > and in original format from the day they were written.  I thank you
                      > for your comments and I hope we will 'see' more of you and you will
                      > be more active in our dream.
                      > > 
                      > > Joe Grande, MPC
                      > > Seattle
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > wyn_chrs <dclar36@c...> wrote:
                      > > Not Again,
                      > >
                      > > Hello You all dont  know me but  you will because I am going to
                      > > introduce myself to you, My name is Chris, I am Don Clarks
                      Partner,
                      > > he used to be a member of the Government,but he resigned due to
                      the
                      > > fact that you all just fight and that there was no real freedom
                      of
                      > > speech here or any freedom, I stayed because I believed that this
                      > > could be a great thing and that the idea was a real good thing,
                      but
                      > I
                      > > am begining to rethink that now.  all I am seeing is a group of
                      > > people hell bent on the idea that they are right and if you dont
                      > > believe in what they do or dont do what they want you to or say
                      > what
                      > > you want them to, then they are wrong they are traitors or they
                      > have
                      > > commited High crimes of treason against the crown. If some one,
                      > Like
                      > > my partner or Gunner or Jaix dint agree with Bill or joe. or Jon
                      or
                      > > Jase or any other member of the Puupet sham of parliment, then
                      they
                      > > are commiting High Treason or They should just be banned from the
                      > > group and that thier citesinshipto the GLK revocted, So I ask
                      you,
                      > > How is this any different then what the NAZIS did? If you could
                      > have
                      > > people shot for disagreeing with you I am not so sure you wouldnt
                      > do
                      > > it. I think the anology or the Nazis is a good one. I personally
                      at
                      > > this time think that this "country" or group is on a very wrong
                      > > track, this is a "country" that is no better then that of a
                      > > dictorship, this is a group that has a sham of a "king" which is
                      > > really just the puppet of a supreme court Judge Bill, who has the
                      > > advisors of a privy council, But it all just a sham a front for a
                      > > dictator named Bill Freeman.  this is no better then what we have
                      > > here in The USA with our current President George Bush, when Bush
                      > > doesnt get what he wants he just changes the rules,  if you
                      > dontagree
                      > > with him then he does something to get rid of you or does
                      something
                      > > to change the laws, no different then what is going on here.  You
                      > all
                      > > will disagree with me, and Bill or another Member of the Puppet
                      > > government will proably ban me, bit I needed to say this.
                      > >
                      > > I dont want to leave, I want to stay and really see if this can
                      get
                      > > off the ground, I want to stay and have you all prove me and Don
                      > > wrong, I really want to believe that this is a free country and
                      > that
                      > > this is a refuge to all gay people around the world, Prove me
                      wrong
                      > I
                      > > dare all of you
                      > >
                      > > Chris
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > --- In gaykingdom@yahoogroups.com, redaktion.knesebeck@g... wrote:
                      > > > ADVERTISEMENT
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > Thanks again, Jase.
                      > >
                      > > Very insightful. But i have been called a traitor in this group.
                      > That
                      > > is a proven fact. Find the Forum Jon quoted from right here:
                      > > http://thelastbaron.com/index.php?topic=11.0 - just to make sure
                      > that
                      > > you get a copy not worked on.
                      > >
                      > > Best regards to you all
                      > > Günter Knesebeck
                      > > technically MLA still - (I didn't sent a resignation to the Lord
                      > > Protector, nor to the President of the Assembly. But according to
                      > > existing law in the GLK i have to do this) - but that's really
                      > > technically. Sadly enough, I had to find out that something like
                      > > a "Law", as we call it usually, is not in use in the GLK. Same
                      > > situations threatened differently, both founded on the same law,
                      is
                      > > more than a bit strange. And a reason to resign indeed. So for
                      all,
                      > > and  for Joe Grande's special joy an excitement, I resign. I
                      really
                      > > do hope you can bring the Issue forward. I will for sure do. Best
                      > > wishes to all (including Joe Grande) in general and to Jase,
                      Bill,
                      > > and Jon in particular.
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > At 22:58 27.04.05, Jase wrote:
                      > >
                      > > Oy, Just what we need.... another scandal! ;0)
                      > >
                      > > I don't think anyone ever called Gunnar a traitor. Merely
                      questions
                      > > were raised about his doing by-laws for another group which we
                      > > assumed was for the GLR. If it was for something that wasn't a
                      > > government or movement contrary to ours, I believe all would have
                      > > been left alone. IF it was contrary, I think there would be a
                      > > conflict and we would have asked that this conflict be remedied.
                      I
                      > > don't think we solved the problem correctly. In the future, if
                      > > someone finds something that might be in conflict to our mission,
                      I
                      > > believe we should politely ask the person to explain if
                      > > this "possible" conflict is in fact that, a conflict. To accuse
                      > > someone and "demand" an answer within a certain timeline, I think
                      > the
                      > > person would have no other response but to be hostile. These are
                      > > trying times, my fellow legislators.... we need to move with
                      > passion,
                      > > but also with smarts.
                      > >
                      > > This message isn't meant to be a critique or accuse anyone of
                      > > anything. This is just my observation on this ordeal and how I
                      > think
                      > > it could have been handled better.
                      > >
                      > > I think we need to add a clause to our constitution stating that
                      > any
                      > > actions that run contrary to the mission of the Gay Lesbian
                      Kingdom
                      > > shall be not allowed. Any actions seen as a conflict need to be
                      > > explained and remedied if said actions are in fact deemed a
                      > conflict.
                      > >
                      > > This way we have a set guideline, and a way to ask the person to
                      > > explain themselves without being accusatory and causing grief and
                      > > anger to be present. That way future "assumed" conflicts won't
                      > cause
                      > > people to resign their posts before a "real" conflict has been
                      > > established. We need to be able to move forward, and if we keep
                      > > loosing people the mission won't be able to continue. For now we
                      > > might be able to keep a quorum without Gunnar, but in the future
                      if
                      > > our attitudes and the way we ask information of others, we may
                      > loose
                      > > too many people and our mission will be stalled. 
                      > >
                      > > And for Gunnar to compare our tactics to that of Nazi's is a
                      scary
                      > > thought. I think using those words was a tad strong, especially
                      to
                      > > this Jew. But as we say, each person is entitled to his/her
                      > opinion,
                      > > and our actions and the way we handled them may have provoked
                      this
                      > > response.
                      > >
                      > > Just a thought... or two  ;0)
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > www.neonjase.com
                      > > -------Original Message-------
                      > >
                      > > From: Jon Matlick
                      > > Date: 04/26/05 22:03:56
                      > > To: Louis Trusty; Dallas Vinson; Dan Fowler; Enrique J Pérez;
                      > > Gunter
                      > > Knesebeck; Gunter Van C; Jack Blue; Jason Ruel; Karress Rhodes
                      > > Cc: William Freeman; Bill Freeman; Joe Grande
                      > > Subject: Gunnar has resigned
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > Günter,
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > Your resignation has been accepted.
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > Jon Matlick
                      > >
                      > > Lord Protector
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > GLR Forum
                      > >
                      > > Gunnar 
                      > >
                      > > Administrator
                      > > Jr. Member
                      > > Offline
                      > >
                      > > Gender: 
                      > > Posts: 3
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > Counter Intelligencene against Mindcontrolling
                      > >
                      > > « on: Today at 19:22:54 »
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > This is a special post for some guys of the old gaykingdom group.
                      > > It's in the meantime a proven fact, that they come here and try
                      to
                      > > find out about the "government" of the GLR. At the Moment, such a
                      > > government does not exist. But it appears to be kinda hostile
                      > > activity against the gay kingdom, to be an Administrator in here.
                      > > This needs some explaination. The group I'm referring to is a
                      group
                      > > claiming to consist out of the members of the United Gay Tribe.
                      > There
                      > > are currently no laws, which would disallow to work for other
                      > > Organisations as well. To me, being a born German, it looks like
                      > the
                      > > Blockwart behavoir in the Nazi Era. In Germany this is over. If
                      > > the "Gay Kingdom" wants to continue this, well... . I'm afraid I
                      > > can't be proud any longer being gay.
                      > > I am deeply ashamed because I have supported the Idea of the Gay
                      > > Kingdom before. So I will stop this support immediately. I don't
                      > want
                      > > to have anything to do with people behaving and acting like
                      Nazis.
                      > > The "Gay" Kingdom should be deeply ashamed to use the word "gay"
                      in
                      > > it's Name. It doesn't forward the interests of LGBT people. It's
                      > > simply a Role game (you can subscribe to it - special offer $50).
                      > > Finally, and for the official records of the gay kingdom: I
                      resign
                      > > from my post as a member of the legislative Assembly.
                      > > Usually i stick to my word. But if I have to recognize later,
                      that
                      > I
                      > > have given my Word to Nazis, which are into all but gay rights,
                      > which
                      > > are to control (!) what I do and what I think - NO, THANKS
                      > > I hope you all appreciate my point of view.
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >    
                      > > Up Thread | Message Index | View Source | Unwrap Lines  Message
                      > 1989
                      > > of 1989  < Previous  |  Next > 
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                    • Viktor Zimmermann
                      Dear Bill, you probably will be surprise to read a message from me in this group. As our ways parted 2 monthes ago, I prefered to critic your way of leading
                      Message 10 of 18 , Apr 28, 2005
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                        Dear Bill,

                        you probably will be surprise to read a message from me in this group.
                        As our ways parted 2 monthes ago, I prefered to critic your way of
                        leading this group from outside and give you peace on your own
                        terrain. But this recent post urges me to post a comment on the way
                        how you are dealing with people.

                        In your posting, cited below, you are publicly accusing Donald and
                        Jaix of theft, though wrapping your accusation in a honey-sweet words.
                        If you really would just appreciate to get anything wich belongs you
                        back, you would certainly choose the way of private communication. The
                        true intention of your posting is, knowing Dons weak health, to hurt
                        him by public insult and to present members and current leaders of Gay
                        and Lesbian Republic (GLR) as thieves. [Besides: Jaix is not related
                        to GLR, as you are falsely stating, though a personal friend of mine]

                        Whereas I cannot speak for Jaix, Gunnar, Jonathan, Don, Beatrice (all
                        the former Assembly members) and leave their proprietary matters to
                        themselves, I would like to remember you that you still have 41 USD
                        from me for a certificate I once applyed for and never received. Yes,
                        it's true that I never sent you the application back, but how could I
                        do this, if the application form was hastily copy-pasted from the
                        US-citizenship application form? There still are 41 Dollar in your
                        pocket for a never-fullfiled service. OK, take the money and run, but
                        don't play this comedy with the headsets here. People sitting in a
                        glasshouse really are well-advised not to throw with stones on others.

                        If you disagree with the policy of our organization (www.gayrepublic.
                        org) and the democratic idea behind it, so please explain your views
                        openly and publicly, instead of abusing the most vulnerable member of
                        our group for your purposes. Donald really does not deserve this kind
                        of treatment.

                        As I probably will not post in this group very often, I would
                        appreciate to answer to one of recent posts by Joe Grande. Joe, you
                        blame us for critisizing the leadership of this group and state (to
                        distinguish your noble nature) that you never critisize our group in
                        turn. Well, on this place I ask you publicly: WHY don't you do this?
                        As we were members of this group, you never spared with critic and
                        sometimes neither with injurig words (we played hard as well,
                        therefore it's OK). But out of what reason you are that much tactful
                        now? To be honest, my friend, aren't you rather worried that people
                        find out how to come to our website and maybe form an opinion on their
                        own?

                        Regards,

                        Vicky

                        --- In gaykingdom@yahoogroups.com, "William J. Freeman" <wjf@b...>
                        wrote:
                        > [...]
                        > We've had a couple instances now
                        > where having an extra headset for newly elected officials would have
                        been
                        > nice. I'd be happy to send you a
                        > postage paid return box for the headset if it isn't a burden for
                        anyone.
                        > I've sent Jaix one several weeks ago and
                        > it appears he intends to retain his headset - he hasn't sent his
                        back.
                        > Perhaps it is of some use to him in the
                        > GLR movement. I know it is a lot to ask.
                        > [...]
                        > -Bill Freeman
                      • Jimmy
                        I am doing something I probably should not, by not reading any messages after this on before replying he may have never meant to make it seem like it, but it
                        Message 11 of 18 , Apr 28, 2005
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                          I am doing something I probably should not, by not reading any messages after this on before replying he may have never meant to make it seem like it, but it seemed like it when every apology he made referred to one illness or another when he made it. As for the high treason part my message as I remember it only referred to one person in particular and that was Jax. Now I will apologize here and now to him Don for the crutch remark, but I will not apologize for something it did not aim at him specifically.

                           

                          Jimmy


                          From: gaykingdom@yahoogroups.com [mailto: gaykingdom@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Donald Clark
                          Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2005 10:05 AM
                          To: gaykingdom@yahoogroups.com
                          Subject: Re: [gaykingdom] Re: Gunnar has resigned

                           

                           

                          Now wait one minute I am going to disagree with you on one thing, FonNever Used his Illness as a crutch, and I think that you need to apologise for that remark, in fact if anything he should have been commended for even staying on as a member of parliment foraslongas he did, because it did damage his health staying here on this group and having to deal with all the stress that it brought on.  and at least he did apologise when he blew his top,  at least he was a gentlemen and admitted when he was wrong, Yes Don has a bad temper and yes he blew his top, but when he did he apologised for it, and do you think that he had reasons for getting angry?  I know I do, there were people like yourself, who did blamehimfor HIGH TREASON and yesI have read your message and there was not an assumetion it was out and out there,

                           

                          and everything I have said in my emails are from my point of view not my partners or anyones elses, and so please dont assume anything different.

                           

                          Chris 

                          ----- Original Message -----

                          From: Jimmy

                          Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2005 11:07 AM

                          Subject: RE: [gaykingdom] Re: Gunnar has resigned

                           

                          Chris,

                           

                          Ok now that I have read the last couple of messages. As a member of the GLK and not the in a position of power I think I can say this with out any major damage to anyone’s agendas.  I have seen some of the stuff that has been said publicly and privately about and by Günter and from it all he was doing things out side the GLK that was not kosure. His resignation seems like the best thing for all parties. As for Don, if I remember right, and I am not saying I am remembering right But, I was the one that sent the message that was assumed to be accusing him of high treason and got blown out of proportion. But I was tired of him blowing his top and the sugarcoating the apology for doing so using his illness as his crutch. I truly am sorry and wish the best to him but just because you are sick for any reason there is only so much you can blame on it. And before you condemn anyone I would ask you to see it from your point and not filtered by the feelings of your partner or anyone else.

                           

                          I think I have said enough.

                           

                          Jimmy


                          From: gaykingdom@yahoogroups.com [mailto: gaykingdom@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of wyn_chrs
                          Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2005 7:46 AM
                          To: gaykingdom@yahoogroups.com
                          Subject: [gaykingdom] Re: Gunnar has resigned

                           

                          Joe

                          you are right you never personally disagreed with Don, and he has
                          said this to me, but you as a member of "the privy Council" has
                          disagreed with some of the ideas that he had and that he thought
                          should be a part of this group, like the fact that he thought this
                          should be a demoracy where the crown and the privy council should
                          allow the elected government to make laws, not hinder them, and this
                          is what he thought the Privy council was doing.

                          and yes some NEW members of the parliment before they became part of
                          the elected governemnt, accused DON of high treasons becuase of his
                          thoughts and views, which is totally over the top.


                          BUT I believe that this could be a good group

                          Chris



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