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Moreto think about

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  • Enrique J Pérez
    Today, A fellow citizen found this message posted on a public forum and informed me about it s disturbing content: Gunnar Joined: 13 Feb 2005 Posts: 22 Posted:
    Message 1 of 5 , Apr 3, 2005
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      Today,

      A fellow citizen found this message posted on a public forum and informed me about it's disturbing content:

      Gunnar



      Joined: 13 Feb 2005
      Posts: 22

      PostPosted: Sun 03 Apr 2005 00:51 0    Post subject: And now??Reply with quote

      The Idea is important, especially in those countries, where GLBT people are opressed and outcast. It is not that easy for gays living in these countries. I'm way lucky there, because I'm German, living in Germany. It's not too hard for me... . But I see that it is way harder for others, not limited to, but including citizens of the UK and USA. There this Idea seems to be badly needed. Badly needed as a kind of a psycological "crutch" I guess.
      Hope is a powerfull force. With having "Land in sight" life is somewhat easier. Question to be asked is, if there is really land in Sight, or if this all is just an illusion. If the last one applies, then it will be hard for those who now hope, if this turns out to be an Illusion.
      I don't want to refer to things done or not done in this Kingdom. But as far as I can see, the way this "Government" behaves - that isn't done. Perhaps they will learn, perhaps they will not.

      On a personal note I might add that I was, after "abstain" from the Kingdom for a few days, able to laugh again. Should I really continue to work for this and having pain in my stomach every time i open an email from them on my computer? Should I more or less quit my social life, meeting friends and stuff, getting lonely just for an Idea I don't need?

      I don't need the Kingdom, and I honestly do not know if that Kingdom needs me.

      Please respond.

      Gunnar

      I wanted every citizen to see this posting for themselves made by a member of the Assembly (who signed it) who has always publicly demanded transperancy from everyone, but he himself decided to be less than transparent and posted this message in his own public forum rather than in our official public forum.  The reasons for his own failure of transparency are his own.

      I will refrain from drawing my own conclusions as to this lastest revelation.  I only wish to express publically my personal disappointment and dismay of this member's actions.

      Sincerely,



      Enrique Pérez
      acting President elect
      GLK Assembly
    • Donald Clark II
      I must say that I am also disapointed, I thought this was all behind us. I resigned because I thought because of my health reasons that someone more able to
      Message 2 of 5 , Apr 3, 2005
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        I must say that I am also disapointed, I thought this was all behind us.  I resigned because I thought because of my health reasons that someone more able to handle the stress without hurting themsleves could do a better job, but what is going on here in this message is not cool.  He should have posted this here as well, then it might have looked better.  Now dont get me wrong I am not saying that Gunnar did not commit treason or anything as dramatic as that, and Anyone who says he is or did is wrong and has no idea about free speech.
         
         
         
        Donald W Clark II
         
        ----- Original Message -----
        Sent: Sunday, April 03, 2005 4:48 PM
        Subject: [gaykingdom] Moreto think about

        Today,

        A fellow citizen found this message posted on a public forum and informed me about it's disturbing content:

        Gunnar



        Joined: 13 Feb 2005
        Posts: 22

        PostPosted: Sun 03 Apr 2005 00:51 0    Post subject: And now??Reply with quote

        The Idea is important, especially in those countries, where GLBT people are opressed and outcast. It is not that easy for gays living in these countries. I'm way lucky there, because I'm German, living in Germany. It's not too hard for me... . But I see that it is way harder for others, not limited to, but including citizens of the UK and USA. There this Idea seems to be badly needed. Badly needed as a kind of a psycological "crutch" I guess.
        Hope is a powerfull force. With having "Land in sight" life is somewhat easier. Question to be asked is, if there is really land in Sight, or if this all is just an illusion. If the last one applies, then it will be hard for those who now hope, if this turns out to be an Illusion.
        I don't want to refer to things done or not done in this Kingdom. But as far as I can see, the way this "Government" behaves - that isn't done. Perhaps they will learn, perhaps they will not.

        On a personal note I might add that I was, after "abstain" from the Kingdom for a few days, able to laugh again. Should I really continue to work for this and having pain in my stomach every time i open an email from them on my computer? Should I more or less quit my social life, meeting friends and stuff, getting lonely just for an Idea I don't need?

        I don't need the Kingdom, and I honestly do not know if that Kingdom needs me.

        Please respond.

        Gunnar

        I wanted every citizen to see this posting for themselves made by a member of the Assembly (who signed it) who has always publicly demanded transperancy from everyone, but he himself decided to be less than transparent and posted this message in his own public forum rather than in our official public forum.  The reasons for his own failure of transparency are his own.

        I will refrain from drawing my own conclusions as to this lastest revelation.  I only wish to express publically my personal disappointment and dismay of this member's actions.

        Sincerely,



        Enrique Pérez
        acting President elect
        GLK Assembly
      • Donald Clark II
        sorry I meant to say I dont think Gunnar commited treason!!!! Donald W Clark II DonClarkII@yahoo.com ... From: Donald Clark II To: gaykingdom@yahoogroups.com
        Message 3 of 5 , Apr 3, 2005
        • 0 Attachment
          sorry I meant to say I dont think Gunnar commited treason!!!!
           
          Donald W Clark II
           
          ----- Original Message -----
          Sent: Sunday, April 03, 2005 5:25 PM
          Subject: Re: [gaykingdom] Moreto think about

          I must say that I am also disapointed, I thought this was all behind us.  I resigned because I thought because of my health reasons that someone more able to handle the stress without hurting themsleves could do a better job, but what is going on here in this message is not cool.  He should have posted this here as well, then it might have looked better.  Now dont get me wrong I am not saying that Gunnar did not commit treason or anything as dramatic as that, and Anyone who says he is or did is wrong and has no idea about free speech.
           
           
           
          Donald W Clark II
           
          ----- Original Message -----
          Sent: Sunday, April 03, 2005 4:48 PM
          Subject: [gaykingdom] Moreto think about

          Today,

          A fellow citizen found this message posted on a public forum and informed me about it's disturbing content:

          Gunnar



          Joined: 13 Feb 2005
          Posts: 22

          PostPosted: Sun 03 Apr 2005 00:51 0    Post subject: And now??Reply with quote

          The Idea is important, especially in those countries, where GLBT people are opressed and outcast. It is not that easy for gays living in these countries. I'm way lucky there, because I'm German, living in Germany. It's not too hard for me... . But I see that it is way harder for others, not limited to, but including citizens of the UK and USA. There this Idea seems to be badly needed. Badly needed as a kind of a psycological "crutch" I guess.
          Hope is a powerfull force. With having "Land in sight" life is somewhat easier. Question to be asked is, if there is really land in Sight, or if this all is just an illusion. If the last one applies, then it will be hard for those who now hope, if this turns out to be an Illusion.
          I don't want to refer to things done or not done in this Kingdom. But as far as I can see, the way this "Government" behaves - that isn't done. Perhaps they will learn, perhaps they will not.

          On a personal note I might add that I was, after "abstain" from the Kingdom for a few days, able to laugh again. Should I really continue to work for this and having pain in my stomach every time i open an email from them on my computer? Should I more or less quit my social life, meeting friends and stuff, getting lonely just for an Idea I don't need?

          I don't need the Kingdom, and I honestly do not know if that Kingdom needs me.

          Please respond.

          Gunnar

          I wanted every citizen to see this posting for themselves made by a member of the Assembly (who signed it) who has always publicly demanded transperancy from everyone, but he himself decided to be less than transparent and posted this message in his own public forum rather than in our official public forum.  The reasons for his own failure of transparency are his own.

          I will refrain from drawing my own conclusions as to this lastest revelation.  I only wish to express publically my personal disappointment and dismay of this member's actions.

          Sincerely,



          Enrique Pérez
          acting President elect
          GLK Assembly
        • gunnarcologne
          Dear fellow citizens, I wonder why MLA Enrique Pérez posted my message on my forum right here, WITHOUT posting the reply posted by a former member of the
          Message 4 of 5 , Apr 5, 2005
          • 0 Attachment
            Dear fellow citizens,

            I wonder why MLA Enrique Pérez posted my message on my forum right
            here, WITHOUT posting the reply posted by a former member of the
            Privy Council. I think it explain very much, and the government
            should admit it also.
            I did not post my message here, because I was afraid that it could
            shatter the whole group again. I don't post what I talk about to my
            personal friends also.
            And I think, that transparency of a government - for example giving
            exact figures on it's expenses - is something different from privacy.
            The PC member Bill Freeman asked me once to tell everything I do to
            HIM Dale, and I denied that, using the words:" I will not tell Dale
            if I jack off or not."
            Privacy is something needed for everyone. Said member of the
            Legislative Assembly aparently think, that every citizen serving in
            the Assembly should be made of glass. I don't think so.
            I have ever - ever - said, that I don't want to be a YESSIR man - I'm
            not a slave of anything or anyone, nor do I belong to the military.
            The GLK wants freedom for gays. It don't serve this goal well, if it
            appears to be a place, where one can't have privacy, where one can't
            have even the freedom of THOUGHT. "The gay Kingdom is nothing less
            than a democracy," Member of the Privy Council Joe Bridgeman has once
            stated. I couldn't believe it as he did so.
            But I was wrong, it seems. And Joe Bridgeman was right.
            THE GLK IS NOTHING LESS THAN A DEMOCRACY.
            This is, however, not treason: It's stated as an opinion. This is
            also NOT a resignation.
            Enjoy the message i have attached.
            Best regards

            Günter Knesebeck
            MLA

            Note: If someone does think this message has perhaps been changed or
            edited, (s)he may have a look at the forum on www.gaynewsboard.net
            ----------------------------------------------------------------------

            Feral



            Anmeldungsdatum: 22.03.2005
            Beiträge: 2

            Verfasst am: Mo 04 Apr 2005 19:03 0 Titel: Pain in the
            Stomach

            ----------------------------------------------------------------------
            ----------

            I know exactly what you mean, Günter.

            The Gay Kingdom is a difficult idea to bring to reality. It will
            require a great deal of effort on the part of those who attempt to
            accomplish it. I do not refer to the tasks of taking a case before
            the International Court of Justice or obtaining independence from
            Australia. The foremost difficulty facing the Gay Kingdom is its own
            people. Can they go one week without declaring one or another of
            their members an `enemy of the state'? Can they realize that
            other
            Gay people are the only allies they will ever get and begin treating
            them that way? The enemies of the Gay people are numerous and
            obvious. It is odd that it should be so difficult to know who the
            friends of the Gay people are, but it seems to be very difficult
            indeed.

            I have always thought that the Gay Kingdom was more valuable as an
            idea than as an island. Care can and should be taken to make that
            idea worth the devotion that so many people seem to be willing to
            give it. All ideas eventually grow into reality if properly cared
            for. It takes time. It is also necessary to realize who your allies
            are. Not everyone needs the idea of the Gay Kingdom, but there are
            those who do need it.

            It could be said that this idea is not worth the trouble it costs. It
            has been said by many people, even some of those who created it.

            It could also be said that the idea is worth any cost, and this too
            has been said by many people, even some of those who created it.

            Realistically, what is this idea worth, not to you, but to others?








            --- In gaykingdom@yahoogroups.com, Enrique J Pérez <ejp13@i...>
            wrote:
            >
          • Joe Grande
            Just what the hell are you rambling about? What are you on? Damn man get a grip. Post something that is coherent, or don’t post at all. What a
            Message 5 of 5 , Apr 5, 2005
            • 0 Attachment

              Just what the hell are you rambling about?  What are you on?  Damn man get a

              grip.  Post something that is coherent, or don�t post at all.  What a

              disappointment you have been as a member of the Assembly.  I regret the vote I

              threw away on your behalf.

               

              Joe Grande

              Seattle



              gunnarcologne <gunnarcologne@...> wrote:

              Dear fellow citizens,

              I wonder why MLA Enrique P�rez posted my message on my forum right
              here, WITHOUT posting the reply posted by a former member of the
              Privy Council. I think it explain very much, and the government
              should admit it also.
              I did not post my message here, because I was afraid that it could
              shatter the whole group again. I don't post what I talk about to my
              personal friends also.
              And I think, that transparency of a government - for example giving
              exact figures on it's expenses - is something different from privacy.
              The PC member Bill Freeman asked me once to tell everything I do to
              HIM Dale, and I denied that, using the words:" I will not tell Dale
              if I jack off or not."
              Privacy is something needed for everyone. Said member of the
              Legislative Assembly aparently think, that every citizen serving in
              the Assembly should be made of glass. I don't think so.
              I have ever - ever - said, that I don't want to be a YESSIR man - I'm
              not a slave of anything or anyone, nor do I belong to the military.
              The GLK wants freedom for gays. It don't serve this goal well, if it
              appears to be a place, where one can't have privacy, where one can't
              have even the freedom of THOUGHT. "The gay Kingdom is nothing less
              than a democracy," Member of the Privy Council Joe Bridgeman has once
              stated. I couldn't believe it as he did so.
              But I was wrong, it seems. And Joe Bridgeman was right.
              THE GLK IS NOTHING LESS THAN A DEMOCRACY.
              This is, however, not treason: It's stated as an opinion. This is
              also NOT a resignation.
              Enjoy the message i have attached.
              Best regards

              G�nter Knesebeck
              MLA

              Note: If someone does think this message has perhaps been changed or
              edited, (s)he may have a look at the forum on www.gaynewsboard.net
              ----------------------------------------------------------------------

              Feral



              Anmeldungsdatum: 22.03.2005
              Beitr�ge: 2

              Verfasst am: Mo 04 Apr 2005 19:03 0    Titel: Pain in the
              Stomach    

              ----------------------------------------------------------------------
              ----------

              I know exactly what you mean, G�nter.

              The Gay Kingdom is a difficult idea to bring to reality. It will
              require a great deal of effort on the part of those who attempt to
              accomplish it. I do not refer to the tasks of taking a case before
              the International Court of Justice or obtaining independence from
              Australia. The foremost difficulty facing the Gay Kingdom is its own
              people. Can they go one week without declaring one or another of
              their members an `enemy of the state'? Can they realize that
              other
              Gay people are the only allies they will ever get and begin treating
              them that way? The enemies of the Gay people are numerous and
              obvious. It is odd that it should be so difficult to know who the
              friends of the Gay people are, but it seems to be very difficult
              indeed.

              I have always thought that the Gay Kingdom was more valuable as an
              idea than as an island. Care can and should be taken to make that
              idea worth the devotion that so many people seem to be willing to
              give it. All ideas eventually grow into reality if properly cared
              for. It takes time. It is also necessary to realize who your allies
              are. Not everyone needs the idea of the Gay Kingdom, but there are
              those who do need it.

              It could be said that this idea is not worth the trouble it costs. It
              has been said by many people, even some of those who created it.

              It could also be said that the idea is worth any cost, and this too
              has been said by many people, even some of those who created it.

              Realistically, what is this idea worth, not to you, but to others?








              --- In gaykingdom@yahoogroups.com, Enrique J P�rez <ejp13@i...>
              wrote:
              >



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