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Re: "Sigurd-fund" - a direct loans fund and agreement with Iceland

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  • Chris
    Gunnar In my view the Euro is unsustainable as a purely monetary union and the fiscal backing will never be there for anything more. A Baltic/Nordic clearing
    Message 1 of 6 , Mar 13, 2010
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      Gunnar

      In my view the Euro is unsustainable as a purely monetary union and the fiscal backing will never be there for anything more.

      A Baltic/Nordic clearing union, on the other hand, is eminently possible, and it is quite feasible to create and maintain a common currency within such a union. Due to its carbon-based energy backing the Norwegian krone is the natural candidate for a classic central bank issued'deficit-based' currency.

      I have a different architecture in mind, however, based upon units redeemable in payment for energy. One of Iceland's major exports is the energy embedded in aluminium production of course, but there's no reason why a supergrid could not connect to Iceland through the Faroes.

      Best Regards

      Chris

      --- In gang8@yahoogroups.com, Gunnar Tómasson <gunnar.tomasson@...> wrote:
      >
      > Arno,
      >
      >
      >
      > Again, this is welcome news.
      >
      >
      >
      > The government of the Faroe Islands graciously extended an unconditional
      > loan to Iceland soon after October 2008.
      >
      >
      >
      > It is a foregone conclusion that Iceland will not become a member of the
      > European Union any time soon in the face of strong popular opposition both
      > on principle and in view of the EU's de facto support of the UK and Dutch
      > claims on Iceland without any basis in law.
      >
      >
      >
      > In any case, the current economic/euro problems within the EU may eventually
      > make its current set-up unsustainable.
      >
      >
      >
      > In that case, the question arises whether Norway, Iceland, the Faroe Islands
      > and the Baltic states (?), may not find it in their joint interest to set up
      > some sort of a cooparative framework - one that would safeguard the common
      > political/economic interests of the countries in the North/Arctic area.
      >
      >
      >
      > Gunnar
      >
      >
      >
      > _____
      >
      > From: gang8@yahoogroups.com [mailto:gang8@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Arno
      > Mong Daastoel
      > Sent: 12. mars 2010 1:17
      > To: gang8@yahoogroups.com
      > Subject: [gang8] "Sigurd-fund" - a direct loans fund and agreement with
      > Iceland
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > Gunnar,
      >
      > I forgot to mention that the "populist" Progress Party was the first party
      > to support Iceland and strongly so.
      >
      > The conservatives, as usual, drag their feet.
      >
      > The leader of the socialist left party SV has, once again, shown her true
      > colours by not supporting Iceland and I don't think she will last long.
      >
      > A rank and file leader of the socialist left party SV, Dag Seierstad, and
      > the financial spokeman of the Center (farmers) Party , Per Olaf Lundteigen,
      > are suggesting a direct loans fund and agreement with Iceland that does not
      > go through the IMF (named "Sigurd-fund" for fun, after our present finance
      > minister, a very down to earth man).
      >
      >
      > Arno
      >
      >
      > http://www.abcnyhet
      > <http://www.abcnyheter.no/nyheter/okonomi/100204/lanserer-sigbjorn-fond-isla
      > nd> er.no/nyheter/okonomi/100204/lanserer-sigbjorn-fond-island
      >
      >
      > Lanserer Sigbjørn-fond for Island
      >
      >
      > SVs Dag Seierstad og Sps Per Olaf Lundteigen vil ha regjeringen til å støtte
      > Island nå. - La oss opprette et Sigbjørn-fond for Island! foreslår
      > Seierstad.
      >
      > <http://e2.emediate.se/eas?camp=39134::cu=11379::no=74240::ty=ct> Klikk
      > her!
      >
    • G W Gardiner
      Great, but with Norway in, would it not be over-valued? Geoff From: Chris Sent: Saturday, March 13, 2010 4:53 PM To: gang8@yahoogroups.com Subject: [gang8] Re:
      Message 2 of 6 , Mar 18, 2010
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        Great, but with Norway in, would it not be over-valued?
         
        Geoff

        From: Chris
        Sent: Saturday, March 13, 2010 4:53 PM
        Subject: [gang8] Re: "Sigurd-fund" - a direct loans fund and agreement with Iceland

         

        Gunnar

        In my view the Euro is unsustainable as a purely monetary union and the fiscal backing will never be there for anything more.

        A Baltic/Nordic clearing union, on the other hand, is eminently possible, and it is quite feasible to create and maintain a common currency within such a union. Due to its carbon-based energy backing the Norwegian krone is the natural candidate for a classic central bank issued'deficit- based' currency.

        I have a different architecture in mind, however, based upon units redeemable in payment for energy. One of Iceland's major exports is the energy embedded in aluminium production of course, but there's no reason why a supergrid could not connect to Iceland through the Faroes.

        Best Regards

        Chris

        --- In gang8@yahoogroups. com, Gunnar Tómasson <gunnar.tomasson@ ...> wrote:

        >
        > Arno,
        >
        >
        >
        > Again, this is welcome news.
        >
        >
        >
        > The government of the Faroe Islands graciously extended an
        unconditional
        > loan to Iceland soon after October 2008.
        >
        >
        >
        > It is a foregone conclusion that Iceland will not become a
        member of the
        > European Union any time soon in the face of strong popular
        opposition both
        > on principle and in view of the EU's de facto support of
        the UK and Dutch
        > claims on Iceland without any basis in law.
        >
        >
        >
        > In any case, the current economic/euro problems
        within the EU may eventually
        > make its current set-up
        unsustainable.
        >
        >
        >
        > In that case, the question
        arises whether Norway, Iceland, the Faroe Islands
        > and the Baltic states
        (?), may not find it in their joint interest to set up
        > some sort of a
        cooparative framework - one that would safeguard the common
        >
        political/economic interests of the countries in the North/Arctic area.
        >
        >
        >
        > Gunnar
        >
        >
        >
        > _____
        >
        > From:
        href="mailto:gang8%40yahoogroups.com">gang8@yahoogroups. com [mailto:gang8@yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Arno
        > Mong Daastoel
        > Sent: 12. mars 2010 1:17
        > To:
        href="mailto:gang8%40yahoogroups.com">gang8@yahoogroups. com
        >
        Subject: [gang8] "Sigurd-fund" - a direct loans fund and agreement with
        >
        Iceland
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > Gunnar,
        >
        > I forgot to mention that the "populist" Progress Party was the first
        party
        > to support Iceland and strongly so.
        >
        > The
        conservatives, as usual, drag their feet.
        >
        > The leader of the
        socialist left party SV has, once again, shown her true
        > colours by not
        supporting Iceland and I don't think she will last long.
        >
        > A rank
        and file leader of the socialist left party SV, Dag Seierstad, and
        > the
        financial spokeman of the Center (farmers) Party , Per Olaf Lundteigen,
        >
        are suggesting a direct loans fund and agreement with Iceland that does not
        > go through the IMF (named "Sigurd-fund" for fun, after our present
        finance
        > minister, a very down to earth man).
        >
        >
        >
        Arno
        >
        >
        >
        href="http://www.abcnyhet">http://www.abcnyhet
        > <
        href="http://www.abcnyheter.no/nyheter/okonomi/100204/lanserer-sigbjorn-fond-isla">http://www.abcnyhet er.no/nyheter/ okonomi/100204/ lanserer- sigbjorn- fond-isla
        >
        nd> er.no/nyheter/ okonomi/100204/ lanserer- sigbjorn- fond-island
        >
        >
        > Lanserer Sigbjørn-fond for Island
        >
        >
        >
        SVs Dag Seierstad og Sps Per Olaf Lundteigen vil ha regjeringen til å støtte
        > Island nå. - La oss opprette et Sigbjørn-fond for Island!
        foreslår
        > Seierstad.
        >
        > <
        href="http://e2.emediate.se/eas?camp=39134::cu=11379::no=74240::ty=ct">http://e2.emediate. se/eas?camp= 39134::cu= 11379::no= 74240::ty= ct> Klikk
        > her!
        >

      • Arno Mong Daastoel
        Indeed a problem for our (remaining) industry. But perhaps the problems of other nations will even this out? Arno On 18.03.2010 20:52, G W Gardiner wrote:
        Message 3 of 6 , Mar 18, 2010
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          Indeed a problem for our (remaining) industry.
          But perhaps the problems of other nations will even this out?
          Arno

          On 18.03.2010 20:52, G W Gardiner wrote:
          Great, but with Norway in, would it not be over-valued?
           
          Geoff

          From: Chris
          Sent: Saturday, March 13, 2010 4:53 PM
          Subject: [gang8] Re: "Sigurd-fund" - a direct loans fund and agreement with Iceland

           

          Gunnar

          In my view the Euro is unsustainable as a purely monetary union and the fiscal backing will never be there for anything more.

          A Baltic/Nordic clearing union, on the other hand, is eminently possible, and it is quite feasible to create and maintain a common currency within such a union. Due to its carbon-based energy backing the Norwegian krone is the natural candidate for a classic central bank issued'deficit- based' currency.

          I have a different architecture in mind, however, based upon units redeemable in payment for energy. One of Iceland's major exports is the energy embedded in aluminium production of course, but there's no reason why a supergrid could not connect to Iceland through the Faroes.

          Best Regards

          Chris

          --- In gang8@yahoogroups. com, Gunnar Tómasson <gunnar.tomasson@ ...> wrote:
          >
          > Arno,
          >
          >
          >
          > Again, this is welcome news.
          >
          >
          >
          > The government of the Faroe Islands graciously extended an unconditional
          > loan to Iceland soon after October 2008.
          >
          >
          >
          > It is a foregone conclusion that Iceland will not become a member of the
          > European Union any time soon in the face of strong popular opposition both
          > on principle and in view of the EU's de facto support of the UK and Dutch
          > claims on Iceland without any basis in law.
          >
          >
          >
          > In any case, the current economic/euro problems within the EU may eventually
          > make its current set-up unsustainable.
          >
          >
          >
          > In that case, the question arises whether Norway, Iceland, the Faroe Islands
          > and the Baltic states (?), may not find it in their joint interest to set up
          > some sort of a cooparative framework - one that would safeguard the common
          > political/economic interests of the countries in the North/Arctic area.
          >
          >
          >
          > Gunnar
          >
          >
          >
          > _____
          >
          > From: gang8@yahoogroups. com [mailto:gang8@yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Arno
          > Mong Daastoel
          > Sent: 12. mars 2010 1:17
          > To: gang8@yahoogroups. com
          > Subject: [gang8] "Sigurd-fund" - a direct loans fund and agreement with
          > Iceland
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > Gunnar,
          >
          > I forgot to mention that the "populist" Progress Party was the first party
          > to support Iceland and strongly so.
          >
          > The conservatives, as usual, drag their feet.
          >
          > The leader of the socialist left party SV has, once again, shown her true
          > colours by not supporting Iceland and I don't think she will last long.
          >
          > A rank and file leader of the socialist left party SV, Dag Seierstad, and
          > the financial spokeman of the Center (farmers) Party , Per Olaf Lundteigen,
          > are suggesting a direct loans fund and agreement with Iceland that does not
          > go through the IMF (named "Sigurd-fund" for fun, after our present finance
          > minister, a very down to earth man).
          >
          >
          > Arno
          >
          >
          > http://www.abcnyhet
          > <http://www.abcnyhet er.no/nyheter/ okonomi/100204/ lanserer- sigbjorn- fond-isla
          > nd> er.no/nyheter/ okonomi/100204/ lanserer- sigbjorn- fond-island
          >
          >
          > Lanserer Sigbjørn-fond for Island
          >
          >
          > SVs Dag Seierstad og Sps Per Olaf Lundteigen vil ha regjeringen til å støtte
          > Island nå. - La oss opprette et Sigbjørn-fond for Island! foreslår
          > Seierstad.
          >
          > <http://e2.emediate. se/eas?camp= 39134::cu= 11379::no= 74240::ty= ct> Klikk
          > her!
          >

        • Chris
          Geoff Of course it would, which is why a Nordic clearing union the way I envisage it would not utilise a fiat currency issued either by any of its member
          Message 4 of 6 , Mar 19, 2010
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            Geoff

            Of course it would, which is why a Nordic clearing union the way I envisage it would not utilise a 'fiat' currency issued either by any of its member states or by a central issuer as envisaged (say) by Keynes for the Bancor.

            I set out my view of how a networked monetary architecture could look
            in Kragero last year, as Arno will attest, and this is what I said...

            http://www.slideshare.net/ChrisJCook/money-30

            The Swiss WIR is a step on the way to this decentralised architecture, as is the fascinating Ecuador 'FactoRepo' initiative currently under development where VAT-registered businesses may discount VAT invoices directly with the Central Bank.

            In both cases the source of the credit is the trade buyer, and in both cases no fiat currency changes hands: instead goods and services change hands by reference to the Swiss franc, and dollar respectively.

            Note here that Ecuador is dollarised, and they wish to keep the dollar as a unit of measure - since Ecuadoreans trust it - but get rid of dependence on the Fed.

            Best Regards

            Chris



            --- In gang8@yahoogroups.com, "G W Gardiner" <geoffrey.gardiner@...> wrote:
            >
            > Great, but with Norway in, would it not be over-valued?
            >
            > Geoff
            >
            >
            > From: Chris
            > Sent: Saturday, March 13, 2010 4:53 PM
            > To: gang8@yahoogroups.com
            > Subject: [gang8] Re: "Sigurd-fund" - a direct loans fund and agreement with Iceland
            >
            >
            >
            > Gunnar
            >
            > In my view the Euro is unsustainable as a purely monetary union and the fiscal backing will never be there for anything more.
            >
            > A Baltic/Nordic clearing union, on the other hand, is eminently possible, and it is quite feasible to create and maintain a common currency within such a union. Due to its carbon-based energy backing the Norwegian krone is the natural candidate for a classic central bank issued'deficit-based' currency.
            >
            > I have a different architecture in mind, however, based upon units redeemable in payment for energy. One of Iceland's major exports is the energy embedded in aluminium production of course, but there's no reason why a supergrid could not connect to Iceland through the Faroes.
            >
            > Best Regards
            >
            > Chris
            >
            > --- In gang8@yahoogroups.com, Gunnar Tómasson <gunnar.tomasson@> wrote:
            > >
            > > Arno,
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > Again, this is welcome news.
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > The government of the Faroe Islands graciously extended an unconditional
            > > loan to Iceland soon after October 2008.
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > It is a foregone conclusion that Iceland will not become a member of the
            > > European Union any time soon in the face of strong popular opposition both
            > > on principle and in view of the EU's de facto support of the UK and Dutch
            > > claims on Iceland without any basis in law.
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > In any case, the current economic/euro problems within the EU may eventually
            > > make its current set-up unsustainable.
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > In that case, the question arises whether Norway, Iceland, the Faroe Islands
            > > and the Baltic states (?), may not find it in their joint interest to set up
            > > some sort of a cooparative framework - one that would safeguard the common
            > > political/economic interests of the countries in the North/Arctic area.
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > Gunnar
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > _____
            > >
            > > From: gang8@yahoogroups.com [mailto:gang8@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Arno
            > > Mong Daastoel
            > > Sent: 12. mars 2010 1:17
            > > To: gang8@yahoogroups.com
            > > Subject: [gang8] "Sigurd-fund" - a direct loans fund and agreement with
            > > Iceland
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > Gunnar,
            > >
            > > I forgot to mention that the "populist" Progress Party was the first party
            > > to support Iceland and strongly so.
            > >
            > > The conservatives, as usual, drag their feet.
            > >
            > > The leader of the socialist left party SV has, once again, shown her true
            > > colours by not supporting Iceland and I don't think she will last long.
            > >
            > > A rank and file leader of the socialist left party SV, Dag Seierstad, and
            > > the financial spokeman of the Center (farmers) Party , Per Olaf Lundteigen,
            > > are suggesting a direct loans fund and agreement with Iceland that does not
            > > go through the IMF (named "Sigurd-fund" for fun, after our present finance
            > > minister, a very down to earth man).
            > >
            > >
            > > Arno
            > >
            > >
            > > http://www.abcnyhet
            > > <http://www.abcnyheter.no/nyheter/okonomi/100204/lanserer-sigbjorn-fond-isla
            > > nd> er.no/nyheter/okonomi/100204/lanserer-sigbjorn-fond-island
            > >
            > >
            > > Lanserer Sigbjørn-fond for Island
            > >
            > >
            > > SVs Dag Seierstad og Sps Per Olaf Lundteigen vil ha regjeringen til å støtte
            > > Island nå. - La oss opprette et Sigbjørn-fond for Island! foreslår
            > > Seierstad.
            > >
            > > <http://e2.emediate.se/eas?camp=39134::cu=11379::no=74240::ty=ct> Klikk
            > > her!
            > >
            >
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