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Electrical Generation Mutation 4th ed

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  • Robert Weber
    Hi all, A player asked me if his electrical generation mutation could be used to charge up batteries & power cells. I m using 4th ed rules, which tells how
    Message 1 of 22 , Mar 1, 2006
      Hi all,
       
       A player asked me if his electrical generation mutation could be used to charge up batteries & power cells. I'm using 4th ed rules, which tells how much damage the mutation can cause every round, but the description is completely void of other uses, besides damage.
       
      I've got my own answer for this, which is "No, electrical generation cannot be used for any other practical use, besides causing harm." but I wanted to get other people's rulings on this mutation, 4th ed or otherwise.
       
      Also, can the damage caused be used against bots ala, EMP?
       
      Thanx!
      Bobjester


      Bobjester at bobjester28@...
      “If he thinks we’re trying to assassinate him, I think that we really ought to go ahead and do it. It’s a whole lot cheaper than starting a war.” –Reverend Pat Robertson, calling for the assassination of Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez.
       
      "There he goes, one of God's own prototypes. A high powered mutant of some
      kind, never even considered for mass production. Too weird to live, too rare
      to die." --Raoul Duke, Fear & Loathing in Las Vegas

      "You people voted for Hubert Humphrey! And you killed Jesus!!"
      --Raoul Duke, Fear & Loathing in Las Vegas

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    • Rick Massey
      Electricity is electricity. If it can be used to do damage, it can be used to charge things or power things. However, the frequency might be wrong or erratic,
      Message 2 of 22 , Mar 1, 2006
        Electricity is electricity. If it can be used to do damage, it can be used
        to charge things or power things. However, the frequency might be wrong or
        erratic, the current will definitely be DC, and the voltage and amperage
        could be off.

        A bank of filters would facilitate using this mutation to power things. If
        they happen to find one lying around, then they're in luck.

        -----Original Message-----
        From: gammaworld@yahoogroups.com [mailto:gammaworld@yahoogroups.com] On
        Behalf Of Robert Weber
        Sent: Wednesday, March 01, 2006 10:45 PM
        To: gammaworld@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: [gwmg] - Electrical Generation Mutation 4th ed

        Hi all,

        A player asked me if his electrical generation mutation could be used to
        charge up batteries & power cells. I'm using 4th ed rules, which tells how
        much damage the mutation can cause every round, but the description is
        completely void of other uses, besides damage.

        I've got my own answer for this, which is "No, electrical generation cannot
        be used for any other practical use, besides causing harm." but I wanted to
        get other people's rulings on this mutation, 4th ed or otherwise.

        Also, can the damage caused be used against bots ala, EMP?

        Thanx!
        Bobjester


        Bobjester at bobjester28@...

        "If he thinks we're trying to assassinate him, I think that we really ought
        to go ahead and do it. It's a whole lot cheaper than starting a war."
        -Reverend Pat Robertson, calling for the assassination of Venezuelan
        President Hugo Chavez.

        "There he goes, one of God's own prototypes. A high powered mutant of some
        kind, never even considered for mass production. Too weird to live, too rare
        to die." --Raoul Duke, Fear & Loathing in Las Vegas

        "You people voted for Hubert Humphrey! And you killed Jesus!!"
        --Raoul Duke, Fear & Loathing in Las Vegas

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      • Bob Crichton
        Well, if the player is clever enough to ask... My take on this would be to sort-of allow it. Require an expensive & fragile custom gadget designed by a
        Message 3 of 22 , Mar 1, 2006
          Well, if the player is clever enough to ask...

          My take on this would be to "sort-of" allow it. Require an expensive & fragile custom gadget designed by a high-level Examiner as a power converter.

          Or tell him "Electricity? What does that have to do with the Magic of the Ancients? You wouldn't know anything about that."

          Or allow it, with a good chance the cell gets fried - or, better yet, the cell gets undetectably damaged, and fries whatever he puts it in. (Well, looks like the power regulator blew - you just destroyed a 2000 domar rifle to save a 400 domar power cell. Bummer.) 

          Think of it as a taser - really high voltage, low current. There's not a lot of power there, it's just in a hazardous form.

          I personally allow damage to robots, but never really thought about it- EMP works for me.

          I think 3rd edition had something in the rules about powering cybernetic implants with that mutation, or maybe one of the old Dragon articles...

          -Bob Crichton

          Robert Weber wrote:
          Hi all,
           
           A player asked me if his electrical generation mutation could be used to charge up batteries & power cells. I'm using 4th ed rules, which tells how much damage the mutation can cause every round, but the description is completely void of other uses, besides damage.
           
          I've got my own answer for this, which is "No, electrical generation cannot be used for any other practical use, besides causing harm." but I wanted to get other people's rulings on this mutation, 4th ed or otherwise.
           
          Also, can the damage caused be used against bots ala, EMP?
           
          Thanx!
          Bobjester


          Bobjester at bobjester28@...
          “If he thinks we’re trying to assassinate him, I think that we really ought to go ahead and do it. It’s a whole lot cheaper than starting a war.” –Reverend Pat Robertson, calling for the assassination of Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez.
           
          "There he goes, one of God's own prototypes. A high powered mutant of some
          kind, never even considered for mass production. Too weird to live, too rare
          to die." --Raoul Duke, Fear & Loathing in Las Vegas

          "You people voted for Hubert Humphrey! And you killed Jesus!!"
          --Raoul Duke, Fear & Loathing in Las Vegas

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        • Elizabeth Woodward
          EMP stands for Electro Magnetic Pulse. Electricity Generation generates electricity not magnetism. Elizabeth W. Robert Weber wrote: Hi
          Message 4 of 22 , Mar 2, 2006
            EMP stands for Electro Magnetic Pulse. Electricity Generation generates electricity not magnetism.
             
            Elizabeth W.


            Robert Weber <bobjester28@...> wrote:
            Hi all,
             
             A player asked me if his electrical generation mutation could be used to charge up batteries & power cells. I'm using 4th ed rules, which tells how much damage the mutation can cause every round, but the description is completely void of other uses, besides damage.
             
            I've got my own answer for this, which is "No, electrical generation cannot be used for any other practical use, besides causing harm." but I wanted to get other people's rulings on this mutation, 4th ed or otherwise.
             
            Also, can the damage caused be used against bots ala, EMP?
             
            Thanx!
            Bobjester


            Bobjester at bobjester28@...
            “If he thinks we’re trying to assassinate him, I think that we really ought to go ahead and do it. It’s a whole lot cheaper than starting a war.” –Reverend Pat Robertson, calling for the assassination of Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez.
             
            "There he goes, one of God's own prototypes. A high powered mutant of some
            kind, never even considered for mass production. Too weird to live, too rare
            to die." --Raoul Duke, Fear & Loathing in Las Vegas

            "You people voted for Hubert Humphrey! And you killed Jesus!!"
            --Raoul Duke, Fear & Loathing in Las Vegas
            __________________________________________________
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          • Ralph Glatt
            Personally, I d consider the charge that came from the electrical generation mutation to be static energy, same as a lightning bolt. Ever hear of anyone being
            Message 5 of 22 , Mar 2, 2006
              Personally, I'd consider the charge that came from the electrical generation mutation to be static energy, same as a lightning bolt. Ever hear of anyone being able to recharge a battery with a lightning bolt?
               
               
              Ralph

              Robert Weber <bobjester28@...> wrote:
              Hi all,
               
               A player asked me if his electrical generation mutation could be used to charge up batteries & power cells. I'm using 4th ed rules, which tells how much damage the mutation can cause every round, but the description is completely void of other uses, besides damage.
               
              I've got my own answer for this, which is "No, electrical generation cannot be used for any other practical use, besides causing harm." but I wanted to get other people's rulings on this mutation, 4th ed or otherwise.
               
              Also, can the damage caused be used against bots ala, EMP?
               
              Thanx!
              Bobjester


              Bobjester at bobjester28@...
              “If he thinks we’re trying to assassinate him, I think that we really ought to go ahead and do it. It’s a whole lot cheaper than starting a war.” –Reverend Pat Robertson, calling for the assassination of Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez.
               
              "There he goes, one of God's own prototypes. A high powered mutant of some
              kind, never even considered for mass production. Too weird to live, too rare
              to die." --Raoul Duke, Fear & Loathing in Las Vegas

              "You people voted for Hubert Humphrey! And you killed Jesus!!"
              --Raoul Duke, Fear & Loathing in Las Vegas
              __________________________________________________
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              Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
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            • Soylent Green
              I’d tackle the issue of whether the electrical generation mutation can be used to recharge batteries from a different perspective. Questioning the science of
              Message 6 of 22 , Mar 2, 2006
                I�d tackle the issue of whether the electrical generation mutation can be
                used to recharge batteries from a different perspective. Questioning the
                science of GW is a really, really bad idea in my opinion. For me if a group
                of players sat down together and agreed to play GW, they have agreed to
                abide by the laws of comic-book science, the sort of fast and loose science
                that will allow bites from radio active spiders to grant you superpowers and
                in which, to quote the 4th edition, entropy is convenient.

                So regardning the question about electrical generation and batteries,
                personally I think it passes the comic-book science test. The real question
                is whether it adds or detracts from the fun in the campaign. As a rule, it
                is normally better to say yes to players, especially in cases usch as this
                in which they show creativity. Being able to do unorthodox things, use
                abilites in ways not covered by the rules is one of the things that make pen
                & paper rpgs stand out over computer games.

                The exception is if the player is actively seeking ways to clearly exploit
                the rules to gain disporortionate advantage. So, for instance if the
                battery-charging powers simply means he is made welcome by the settlements
                he visits, I would think that is okay. If the player instead just
                obsessively spends all game session recharging bateries to sell so that he
                can then buy a black ray gun, then you have a problem.



                >From: Robert Weber <bobjester28@...>
                >Reply-To: gammaworld@yahoogroups.com
                >To: gammaworld@yahoogroups.com
                >Subject: [gwmg] - Electrical Generation Mutation 4th ed
                >Date: Wed, 1 Mar 2006 20:44:40 -0800 (PST)
                >
                >Hi all,
                >
                > A player asked me if his electrical generation mutation could be used
                >to charge up batteries & power cells. I'm using 4th ed rules, which tells
                >how much damage the mutation can cause every round, but the description is
                >completely void of other uses, besides damage.
                >
                > I've got my own answer for this, which is "No, electrical generation
                >cannot be used for any other practical use, besides causing harm." but I
                >wanted to get other people's rulings on this mutation, 4th ed or otherwise.
                >
                > Also, can the damage caused be used against bots ala, EMP?
                >
                > Thanx!
                > Bobjester
                >
                >
                > Bobjester at bobjester28@...
                > �If he thinks we�re trying to assassinate him, I think that we really
                >ought to go ahead and do it. It�s a whole lot cheaper than starting a war.�
                >�Reverend Pat Robertson, calling for the assassination of Venezuelan
                >President Hugo Chavez.
                >
                >
                > "There he goes, one of God's own prototypes. A high powered mutant of
                >some
                >kind, never even considered for mass production. Too weird to live, too
                >rare
                >to die." --Raoul Duke, Fear & Loathing in Las Vegas
                >
                >"You people voted for Hubert Humphrey! And you killed Jesus!!"
                >--Raoul Duke, Fear & Loathing in Las Vegas
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >__________________________________________________
                >Do You Yahoo!?
                >Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
                >http://mail.yahoo.com
              • Mars
                I agree that it should be possible. The mutant would need either training in controlling their ability or an adapter. I once saw a picture in a science book of
                Message 7 of 22 , Mar 2, 2006
                  I agree that it should be possible. The mutant would need either
                  training in controlling their ability or an adapter. I once saw a
                  picture in a science book of an electric eel being used to light up a
                  bank of incandescent bulbs.

                  Mars


                  --- In gammaworld@yahoogroups.com, "Soylent Green" <gsoylent@...>
                  wrote:>
                  > So regardning the question about electrical generation and
                  batteries,
                  > personally I think it passes the comic-book science test. The real
                  question
                  > is whether it adds or detracts from the fun in the campaign. As a
                  rule, it
                  > is normally better to say yes to players, especially in cases usch
                  as this
                  > in which they show creativity. Being able to do unorthodox things,
                  use
                  > abilites in ways not covered by the rules is one of the things that
                  make pen
                  > & paper rpgs stand out over computer games.
                • Robert Weber
                  Okay, unless a bot had shielding, could an electrical generation attack harm it by frying its unprotected circuits, or alternately, could an electrical shock
                  Message 8 of 22 , Mar 2, 2006
                    Okay, unless a 'bot had shielding, could an electrical generation attack harm it by frying its unprotected circuits, or alternately, could an electrical shock scramble it's programming?
                     
                    Besides, my PC's shouldn't know anything about EMP anyhoo. Hell, I barely do, that's why I asked the list. ;)

                    Elizabeth Woodward <eaw541335@...> wrote:
                    EMP stands for Electro Magnetic Pulse. Electricity Generation generates electricity not magnetism.


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                  • Rick Massey
                    Most people don t know anything about EMP. That s why we have people frying cars and portable computers that aren t plugged in with it in stories and games.
                    Message 9 of 22 , Mar 2, 2006
                      Most people don't know anything about EMP. That's why we have people frying
                      cars and portable computers that aren't plugged in with it in stories and
                      games.

                      Pet peeve of mine.

                      -----Original Message-----
                      From: gammaworld@yahoogroups.com [mailto:gammaworld@yahoogroups.com] On
                      Behalf Of Robert Weber
                      Sent: Thursday, March 02, 2006 6:07 PM
                      To: gammaworld@yahoogroups.com
                      Subject: Re: [gwmg] - Electrical Generation Mutation 4th ed

                      Okay, unless a 'bot had shielding, could an electrical generation attack
                      harm it by frying its unprotected circuits, or alternately, could an
                      electrical shock scramble it's programming?

                      Besides, my PC's shouldn't know anything about EMP anyhoo. Hell, I barely
                      do, that's why I asked the list. ;)

                      Elizabeth Woodward <eaw541335@...> wrote:
                      EMP stands for Electro Magnetic Pulse. Electricity Generation generates
                      electricity not magnetism.

                      ________________________________

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                    • Motatumbo@aol.com
                      Hey all, There have already been some good answers on this already. I do like the fact (don t remember who said it) about the characters not knowing what
                      Message 10 of 22 , Mar 2, 2006
                        Hey all,
                         
                        There have already been some good answers on this already.  I do like the fact (don't remember who said it) about the characters not knowing what powers the energy cells of the Ancients.  But, if there is a non-meta-gaming way for them to know this info, I'd give them an opportunity to try it.  The tough part is how.  If the character just tries to zap the electricity in, I'd have the cell blow up.  It really comes down to if the PC can either control the amount of current/electricity/what have you into the cell or if they need that expensive Examiner gizmo to do it. 
                         
                        And if you allow the PC to have the ability to control the electricty output (which isn't too far fetched since the mutation allows you to zap off less than full damage as the mutation regenerates), perhaps that much focus or concentration takes all the juice the PC has for "X" amount of time (hours, days, weeks?) as a side effect.
                         
                        As for EMP, I wouldn't allow the mutation to do that.  To me it's just straight zap.  Let them find an EMP grenade or make an alternative EMP mutation.
                         
                        Regards,
                        Matt
                         
                        -----Original Message-----
                        From: Robert Weber <bobjester28@...>
                        To: gammaworld@yahoogroups.com
                        Sent: Wed, 1 Mar 2006 20:44:40 -0800 (PST)
                        Subject: [gwmg] - Electrical Generation Mutation 4th ed

                        Hi all,
                         
                         A player asked me if his electrical generation mutation could be used to charge up batteries & power cells. I'm using 4th ed rules, which tells how much damage the mutation can cause every round, but the description is completely void of other uses, besides damage.
                         
                        I've got my own answer for this, which is "No, electrical generation cannot be used for any other practical use, besides causing harm." but I wanted to get other people's rulings on this mutation, 4th ed or otherwise.
                         
                        Also, can the damage caused be used against bots ala, EMP?
                         
                        Thanx!
                        Bobjester


                        Bobjester at bobjester28@...
                        "If he thinks we're trying to assassinate him, I think that we really ought to go ahead and do it. It's a whole lot cheaper than starting a war." -Reverend Pat Robertson, calling for the assassination of Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez.
                         
                        "There he goes, one of God's own prototypes. A high powered mutant of some
                        kind, never even considered for mass production. Too weird to live, too rare
                        to die." --Raoul Duke, Fear & Loathing in Las Vegas

                        "You people voted for Hubert Humphrey! And you killed Jesus!!"
                        --Raoul Duke, Fear & Loathing in Las Vegas
                        __________________________________________________
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                        Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
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                      • Robert Weber
                        Thanks all, for your answers. What you ve all said so far has helped me get a better idea of how much the electrical generation mutation can do in my game. And
                        Message 11 of 22 , Mar 2, 2006
                          Thanks all, for your answers. What you've all said so far has helped me get a better idea of how much the electrical generation mutation can do in my game.
                           
                          And someone a few posts ago asked if I said no b/c the player in question has a habit of doing this with all rules? Lets just say that I was warned by someone who used to game with him often. That's why I want to know as much as I can (as far as a simple game is concerned) about the impact of a yes or no answer will have, and leaving me with the leash in case I need to reign in the player in question.
                          ;)
                          Bobjester

                          Rick Massey <seafox@...> wrote:
                          Most people don't know anything about EMP. That's why we have people frying
                          cars and portable computers that aren't plugged in with it in stories and
                          games.

                          Pet peeve of mine.


                          Relax. Yahoo! Mail virus scanning helps detect nasty viruses!
                        • Rick Massey
                          If the PC can control their amount of zap, then we re talking about a walking defibrillator. /Could be very useful. ... From: gammaworld@yahoogroups.com
                          Message 12 of 22 , Mar 2, 2006
                            If the PC can control their amount of zap, then we're talking about a
                            walking defibrillator. /Could be very useful.

                            -----Original Message-----
                            From: gammaworld@yahoogroups.com [mailto:gammaworld@yahoogroups.com] On
                            Behalf Of Motatumbo@...
                            Sent: Thursday, March 02, 2006 6:49 PM
                            To: gammaworld@yahoogroups.com
                            Subject: Re: [gwmg] - Electrical Generation Mutation 4th ed

                            Hey all,

                            There have already been some good answers on this already. I do like the
                            fact (don't remember who said it) about the characters not knowing what
                            powers the energy cells of the Ancients. But, if there is a non-meta-gaming
                            way for them to know this info, I'd give them an opportunity to try it. The
                            tough part is how. If the character just tries to zap the electricity in,
                            I'd have the cell blow up. It really comes down to if the PC can either
                            control the amount of current/electricity/what have you into the cell or if
                            they need that expensive Examiner gizmo to do it.

                            And if you allow the PC to have the ability to control the electricty output
                            (which isn't too far fetched since the mutation allows you to zap off less
                            than full damage as the mutation regenerates), perhaps that much focus or
                            concentration takes all the juice the PC has for "X" amount of time (hours,
                            days, weeks?) as a side effect.

                            As for EMP, I wouldn't allow the mutation to do that. To me it's just
                            straight zap. Let them find an EMP grenade or make an alternative EMP
                            mutation.

                            Regards,
                            Matt

                            -----Original Message-----
                            From: Robert Weber <bobjester28@...>
                            To: gammaworld@yahoogroups.com
                            Sent: Wed, 1 Mar 2006 20:44:40 -0800 (PST)
                            Subject: [gwmg] - Electrical Generation Mutation 4th ed


                            Hi all,

                            A player asked me if his electrical generation mutation could be used to
                            charge up batteries & power cells. I'm using 4th ed rules, which tells how
                            much damage the mutation can cause every round, but the description is
                            completely void of other uses, besides damage.

                            I've got my own answer for this, which is "No, electrical generation cannot
                            be used for any other practical use, besides causing harm." but I wanted to
                            get other people's rulings on this mutation, 4th ed or otherwise.

                            Also, can the damage caused be used against bots ala, EMP?

                            Thanx!
                            Bobjester


                            Bobjester at bobjester28@...
                            <javascript:parent.ComposeTo('bobjester28@...');>

                            "If he thinks we're trying to assassinate him, I think that we really ought
                            to go ahead and do it. It's a whole lot cheaper than starting a war."
                            -Reverend Pat Robertson, calling for the assassination of Venezuelan
                            President Hugo Chavez.

                            "There he goes, one of God's own prototypes. A high powered mutant of some
                            kind, never even considered for mass production. Too weird to live, too rare
                            to die." --Raoul Duke, Fear & Loathing in Las Vegas

                            "You people voted for Hubert Humphrey! And you killed Jesus!!"
                            --Raoul Duke, Fear & Loathing in Las Vegas
                            __________________________________________________
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                            Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
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                          • Christopher Hinderliter
                            Robert Weber wrote: Hi all, A player asked me if his electrical generation mutation could be used to charge up batteries &
                            Message 13 of 22 , Mar 3, 2006
                              Robert Weber <bobjester28@...> wrote:
                              Hi all,
                               
                               A player asked me if his electrical generation mutation could be used to charge up batteries & power cells. I'm using 4th ed rules, which tells how much damage the mutation can cause every round, but the description is completely void of other uses, besides damage.
                               
                              I've got my own answer for this, which is "No, electrical generation cannot be used for any other practical use, besides causing harm." but I wanted to get other people's rulings on this mutation, 4th ed or otherwise.
                               
                              Also, can the damage caused be used against bots ala, EMP?

                              Hi.
                              Everyone has raised some interesting points regarding this. The way I see it, however, is that the question really comes down to two issues, gamebalance and roleplaying.

                              In the area of gamebalance, I say that there is a reason that the solar charger is Tech V, and that the Atomic Power Cell, which lasts 100 times as long as the chemical power cell, is considered "a rare and valuable artifact."  My inner-GM shudders at the thought of a group of characters running around with an endless supply of power for weapons.  If this had been intended, there would be no need for power cells at all

                              If the characters want  an unendless supply of energy, let them have a  quest for power,  in which they find out about the existence of a crate of solar power cells or of an intact solar charger, which they can acquire from the cryptic alliance/creature/dangerous locale/trader who wants something specific by....

                              Which brings me to role-playing opportunities.  Let the character who wants to know if his electrical generation can charge up batteries attempt to do so, then randomly roll to determine the results (after all, even if it were possible to do, he shouldn't know how much energy would be required or how much would be beyond the tollerances). So roleplay the experience, describing what happens and the results on the character or environment.

                              You could set up a chart using a d10 to determine the results (as if using the Use Artifacts Diagram).  For example:

                              1=Dangerous Event, for example - a chemical cell explodes, doing damage; a hydrogen cell is damaged and leaks a poisonous or irritating gas, doing damage (low intensity due to a combination of elements altered by the electrical flow that are carried on the otherwise-safe hydrogen leak);  the containment for an atomic energy cell is destroyed, causing it to leak radiation or causing it to explode, the next time it is used; etc.
                              2-4=Artifact Breaks -  The cell or  contacts on the cell are damaged, causing it to be ruined.
                              5-8= Nothing Happens
                              9= Assumed Useless - the discharge eliminates any remaining  charge on the cell, making it seemed ruined, but the hydrogen or chemical cell could still be recharged by a solar charger artifact
                              10= True Function - a success, sort of, after experimenting, the character learns that the mutation will not work to recharge batteries in this way, but learns that the cell could be recharged with the proper equipment...

                              There are other roleplaying opportunities that could come out of this. The character need to find a healer to replace the fingers lost by his power-cell turned firecracker; the characer learns how to use the mutation to make a cell unstable enought to work as a small explosive under specific conditions leading to the ability to make James Bond style escape, in some scenario later on; the character starts asking others about this and learns of the existence of an ancient solar charger (stolen from a person/community) which needs to be returned...; etc.

                              It is amazing how many opportunities will present themselves in this manner, when you start thinking about it.  That is why pencil & paper rpgs are vastly superior to computer games. IMHO

                              - Chris


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                            • Rat Traveller
                              Hey OK here s my opinion take it or leave it. The control required for recharging a power cell would have to be on an order most characters would not achieve
                              Message 14 of 22 , Mar 3, 2006
                                Hey
                                   OK here's my opinion take it or leave it. The control required for recharging a power cell would have to be on an order most characters would not achieve during their game play lifetimes. Sure they can change the damage done from a zap but recharging is different.
                                 
                                   1) recharging takes minutes or hours not the seconds a zap does
                                   2) to recharge requires current to travel through the storage cell both in and out along a negative to positive line
                                   3) while the PC would be charging they are not resting themselves and would soon deplete themselves
                                 
                                 
                                Now if you are running a game where mutations are treated as feats with progression levels then I could see this as something to work up to but still requiring a high level of control.
                                 
                                Plot idea. The village over the hill has kidnapped Grop our living generator. You must get her back our in 72 hours the power cells running the Ancient machinery keeping your mother alive will fail and she'll die.
                                 
                                RAT

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                              • Rat Traveller
                                Yes. That was the point of the original Back to the Future Go Flux Capacitor RAT Ralph Glatt wrote: Personally, I d consider the charge
                                Message 15 of 22 , Mar 3, 2006
                                  Yes. That was the point of the original Back to the Future
                                   
                                  Go Flux Capacitor
                                   
                                  RAT

                                  Ralph Glatt <ralphglatt@...> wrote:
                                  Personally, I'd consider the charge that came from the electrical generation mutation to be static energy, same as a lightning bolt. Ever hear of anyone being able to recharge a battery with a lightning bolt?
                                   
                                   
                                  Ralph


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                                • Rick Massey
                                  Another option is to have the cell overcharge, destroying the object it was put in. I d use the difficult artifact use chart for early attempts, and then
                                  Message 16 of 22 , Mar 3, 2006
                                    Another option is to have the cell overcharge, destroying the object it was
                                    put in.

                                    I'd use the difficult artifact use chart for early attempts, and then
                                    downscale it as the player does it successfully more often. This means that
                                    he won't always get it right, and sometimes have a bad consequence.

                                    I still think some kind of filter would be needed, and probably some type of
                                    transformer as well, for this to work. Mutants are usually not familiar with
                                    volts and amps, so they have no easy way to calibrate things unless someone
                                    far more experienced in the ways of the ancients helps them. Add to this the
                                    fact that the intelligences most familiar with ancient ways, robots,
                                    computers, think tanks, and androids, wouldn't want someone who understands
                                    electricity and can use it at will to have the knowledge to do damage to
                                    them and their installations at will that can be permanent.

                                    -----Original Message-----
                                    From: gammaworld@yahoogroups.com [mailto:gammaworld@yahoogroups.com] On
                                    Behalf Of Christopher Hinderliter
                                    Sent: Friday, March 03, 2006 11:08 AM
                                    To: gammaworld@yahoogroups.com
                                    Subject: Re: [gwmg] - Electrical Generation Mutation 4th ed

                                    Robert Weber <bobjester28@...> wrote:

                                    Hi all,

                                    A player asked me if his electrical generation mutation could be
                                    used to charge up batteries & power cells. I'm using 4th ed rules, which
                                    tells how much damage the mutation can cause every round, but the
                                    description is completely void of other uses, besides damage.

                                    I've got my own answer for this, which is "No, electrical generation
                                    cannot be used for any other practical use, besides causing harm." but I
                                    wanted to get other people's rulings on this mutation, 4th ed or otherwise.

                                    Also, can the damage caused be used against bots ala, EMP?


                                    Hi.
                                    Everyone has raised some interesting points regarding this. The way I see
                                    it, however, is that the question really comes down to two issues,
                                    gamebalance and roleplaying.

                                    In the area of gamebalance, I say that there is a reason that the solar
                                    charger is Tech V, and that the Atomic Power Cell, which lasts 100 times as
                                    long as the chemical power cell, is considered "a rare and valuable
                                    artifact." My inner-GM shudders at the thought of a group of characters
                                    running around with an endless supply of power for weapons. If this had
                                    been intended, there would be no need for power cells at all

                                    If the characters want an unendless supply of energy, let them have a
                                    quest for power, in which they find out about the existence of a crate of
                                    solar power cells or of an intact solar charger, which they can acquire from
                                    the cryptic alliance/creature/dangerous locale/trader who wants something
                                    specific by....

                                    Which brings me to role-playing opportunities. Let the character who wants
                                    to know if his electrical generation can charge up batteries attempt to do
                                    so, then randomly roll to determine the results (after all, even if it were
                                    possible to do, he shouldn't know how much energy would be required or how
                                    much would be beyond the tollerances). So roleplay the experience,
                                    describing what happens and the results on the character or environment.

                                    You could set up a chart using a d10 to determine the results (as if using
                                    the Use Artifacts Diagram). For example:

                                    1=Dangerous Event, for example - a chemical cell explodes, doing damage; a
                                    hydrogen cell is damaged and leaks a poisonous or irritating gas, doing
                                    damage (low intensity due to a combination of elements altered by the
                                    electrical flow that are carried on the otherwise-safe hydrogen leak); the
                                    containment for an atomic energy cell is destroyed, causing it to leak
                                    radiation or causing it to explode, the next time it is used; etc.
                                    2-4=Artifact Breaks - The cell or contacts on the cell are damaged,
                                    causing it to be ruined.
                                    5-8= Nothing Happens
                                    9= Assumed Useless - the discharge eliminates any remaining charge on the
                                    cell, making it seemed ruined, but the hydrogen or chemical cell could still
                                    be recharged by a solar charger artifact 10= True Function - a success, sort
                                    of, after experimenting, the character learns that the mutation will not
                                    work to recharge batteries in this way, but learns that the cell could be
                                    recharged with the proper equipment...

                                    There are other roleplaying opportunities that could come out of this. The
                                    character need to find a healer to replace the fingers lost by his
                                    power-cell turned firecracker; the characer learns how to use the mutation
                                    to make a cell unstable enought to work as a small explosive under specific
                                    conditions leading to the ability to make James Bond style escape, in some
                                    scenario later on; the character starts asking others about this and learns
                                    of the existence of an ancient solar charger (stolen from a
                                    person/community) which needs to be returned...; etc.

                                    It is amazing how many opportunities will present themselves in this manner,
                                    when you start thinking about it. That is why pencil & paper rpgs are
                                    vastly superior to computer games. IMHO

                                    - Chris


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                                  • Robert Weber
                                    Right Matt, I m very pleased with the different answers on this subject, and all of them will come in handy. As far as the EMP effects, I guess I was thinking
                                    Message 17 of 22 , Mar 3, 2006
                                      Right Matt,
                                       
                                      I'm very pleased with the different answers on this subject, and all of them will come in handy. As far as the EMP effects, I guess I was thinking that the effects were similar, if not different in implementation, to a lightning strike.
                                       
                                      Is an EMP burst much like solar flares affecting computers, telecommunications, etc? And are the effects temporary? Where a lightning bolt permanently fries any unprotected circuitry?
                                       
                                      What's confusing to me (and apparently some authors & game designers) is that EMP is often associated with nuclear power or detonations(?)
                                       
                                      But I've gotten the answers I need on this subject, and I plan on writing it up as an addendum to the Electrical Generation mutation description. (Eventually)
                                       
                                      Bobjester

                                      Motatumbo@... wrote:
                                      There have already been some good answers on this already.  I do like the fact (don't remember who said it) about the characters not knowing what powers the energy cells of the Ancients.  But, if there is a non-meta-gaming way for them to know this info, I'd give them an opportunity to try it.  The tough part is how.  If the character just tries to zap the electricity in, I'd have the cell blow up.  It really comes down to if the PC can either control the amount of current/electricity/what have you into the cell or if they need that expensive Examiner gizmo to do it. 
                                       
                                      And if you allow the PC to have the ability to control the electricty output (which isn't too far fetched since the mutation allows you to zap off less than full damage as the mutation regenerates), perhaps that much focus or concentration takes all the juice the PC has for "X" amount of time (hours, days, weeks?) as a side effect.
                                       
                                      As for EMP, I wouldn't allow the mutation to do that.  To me it's just straight zap.  Let them find an EMP grenade or make an alternative EMP mutation.


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                                    • Rick Massey
                                      EMP is a buildup of static electricity. Any electronic device connected to long continuous pieces of metal will suffer the effects of the static electricity
                                      Message 18 of 22 , Mar 3, 2006
                                        EMP is a buildup of static electricity. Any electronic device connected to
                                        long continuous pieces of metal will suffer the effects of the static
                                        electricity building up along its length, causing a power surge

                                        Nuclear explosions cause ionization of the atmosphere, creating just this
                                        type of charge.

                                        EMP will destroy a computer or microwave connected to the wall socket unless
                                        isolation transformers are in place. It won't destroy your cell phone, but
                                        it will destroy the cell tower, again unless isolation transformers are in
                                        place. (They usually are, because cell towers are big honkin' lightning
                                        rods) The main switching center of your cell phone service is probably
                                        toast, though. EMP will also not shut down your car or fry your laptop,
                                        though if the laptop is plugged in, your charger is screwed.

                                        Isolating things in a Faraday Cage, like you see in a lot of secure
                                        installations, also will protect the devices.

                                        That is my short primer on EMP. It gets accused of a lot of things it can't
                                        do because people don't do their research.

                                        -----Original Message-----
                                        From: gammaworld@yahoogroups.com [mailto:gammaworld@yahoogroups.com] On
                                        Behalf Of Robert Weber
                                        Sent: Friday, March 03, 2006 6:24 PM
                                        To: gammaworld@yahoogroups.com
                                        Subject: Re: [gwmg] - Electrical Generation Mutation 4th ed

                                        Right Matt,

                                        I'm very pleased with the different answers on this subject, and all of them
                                        will come in handy. As far as the EMP effects, I guess I was thinking that
                                        the effects were similar, if not different in implementation, to a lightning
                                        strike.

                                        Is an EMP burst much like solar flares affecting computers,
                                        telecommunications, etc? And are the effects temporary? Where a lightning
                                        bolt permanently fries any unprotected circuitry?

                                        What's confusing to me (and apparently some authors & game designers) is
                                        that EMP is often associated with nuclear power or detonations(?)

                                        But I've gotten the answers I need on this subject, and I plan on writing it
                                        up as an addendum to the Electrical Generation mutation description.
                                        (Eventually)

                                        Bobjester

                                        Motatumbo@... wrote:
                                        There have already been some good answers on this already. I do like the
                                        fact (don't remember who said it) about the characters not knowing what
                                        powers the energy cells of the Ancients. But, if there is a non-meta-gaming
                                        way for them to know this info, I'd give them an opportunity to try it. The
                                        tough part is how. If the character just tries to zap the electricity in,
                                        I'd have the cell blow up. It really comes down to if the PC can either
                                        control the amount of current/electricity/what have you into the cell or if
                                        they need that expensive Examiner gizmo to do it.

                                        And if you allow the PC to have the ability to control the electricty output
                                        (which isn't too far fetched since the mutation allows you to zap off less
                                        than full damage as the mutation regenerates), perhaps that much focus or
                                        concentration takes all the juice the PC has for "X" amount of time (hours,
                                        days, weeks?) as a side effect.

                                        As for EMP, I wouldn't allow the mutation to do that. To me it's just
                                        straight zap. Let them find an EMP grenade or make an alternative EMP
                                        mutation.

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                                      • Robert Weber
                                        Thanks Chris. I was going to make a table similar to the one you posted. You saved me some work! :) Bobjester Wonder Twin powers, activate! Christopher
                                        Message 19 of 22 , Mar 3, 2006
                                          Thanks Chris.
                                          I was going to make a table similar to the one you posted. You saved me some work! :)
                                           
                                          Bobjester
                                          Wonder Twin powers, activate!

                                          Christopher Hinderliter <hinderli1@...> wrote:
                                          Hi.
                                          Everyone has raised some interesting points regarding this. The way I see it, however, is that the question really comes down to two issues, gamebalance and roleplaying.

                                          In the area of gamebalance, I say that there is a reason that the solar charger is Tech V, and that the Atomic Power Cell, which lasts 100 times as long as the chemical power cell, is considered "a rare and valuable artifact."  My inner-GM shudders at the thought of a group of characters running around with an endless supply of power for weapons.  If this had been intended, there would be no need for power cells at all

                                          If the characters want  an unendless supply of energy, let them have a  quest for power,  in which they find out about the existence of a crate of solar power cells or of an intact solar charger, which they can acquire from the cryptic alliance/creature/dangerous locale/trader who wants something specific by....

                                          Which brings me to role-playing opportunities.  Let the character who wants to know if his electrical generation can charge up batteries attempt to do so, then randomly roll to determine the results (after all, even if it were possible to do, he shouldn't know how much energy would be required or how much would be beyond the tollerances). So roleplay the experience, describing what happens and the results on the character or environment.

                                          You could set up a chart using a d10 to determine the results (as if using the Use Artifacts Diagram).  For example:

                                          1=Dangerous Event, for example - a chemical cell explodes, doing damage; a hydrogen cell is damaged and leaks a poisonous or irritating gas, doing damage (low intensity due to a combination of elements altered by the electrical flow that are carried on the otherwise-safe hydrogen leak);  the containment for an atomic energy cell is destroyed, causing it to leak radiation or causing it to explode, the next time it is used; etc.
                                          2-4=Artifact Breaks -  The cell or  contacts on the cell are damaged, causing it to be ruined.
                                          5-8= Nothing Happens
                                          9= Assumed Useless - the discharge eliminates any remaining  charge on the cell, making it seemed ruined, but the hydrogen or chemical cell could still be recharged by a solar charger artifact
                                          10= True Function - a success, sort of, after experimenting, the character learns that the mutation will not work to recharge batteries in this way, but learns that the cell could be recharged with the proper equipment...

                                          There are other roleplaying opportunities that could come out of this. The character need to find a healer to replace the fingers lost by his power-cell turned firecracker; the characer learns how to use the mutation to make a cell unstable enought to work as a small explosive under specific conditions leading to the ability to make James Bond style escape, in some scenario later on; the character starts asking others about this and learns of the existence of an ancient solar charger (stolen from a person/community) which needs to be returned...; etc.

                                          It is amazing how many opportunities will present themselves in this manner, when you start thinking about it.  That is why pencil & paper rpgs are vastly superior to computer games. IMHO

                                          - Chris


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                                        • Ralph Glatt
                                          Now that I think about it, there was an episode of Thundaar the Barbarian where someone made a sword that had a battery charged by red lightning. After
                                          Message 20 of 22 , Mar 4, 2006
                                            Now that I think about it, there was an episode of Thundaar the Barbarian where someone made a sword that had a battery charged by "red lightning."
                                             
                                            After reading some of the responses here, I  think I like the idea of it being difficult but not impossible to charge batteries with the Electrical discharge mutation.
                                             
                                             
                                            Ralph

                                            Rat Traveller <ratcamp33@...> wrote:
                                            Yes. That was the point of the original Back to the Future
                                             
                                            Go Flux Capacitor
                                             
                                            RAT

                                            Ralph Glatt <ralphglatt@...> wrote:
                                            Personally, I'd consider the charge that came from the electrical generation mutation to be static energy, same as a lightning bolt. Ever hear of anyone being able to recharge a battery with a lightning bolt?
                                             
                                             
                                            Ralph


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                                          • Mars
                                            The Riverworld series by Phillip J. Farmer (a sort of PA environment) The Riverboat is powered by Battacitors. They are a hybrid form of batteries and
                                            Message 21 of 22 , Mar 4, 2006
                                              The Riverworld series by Phillip J. Farmer (a sort of PA environment)
                                              The Riverboat is powered by Battacitors. They are a hybrid form of
                                              batteries and capacitors that can absorb a lightning surge and deliver
                                              steady power. Quite a few harvestable ideas in this series. For
                                              example, the riverboat's main guns use steam power to shoot dense
                                              plastic bullets.

                                              Mars


                                              --- In gammaworld@yahoogroups.com, Ralph Glatt <ralphglatt@...> wrote:
                                              >
                                              > Now that I think about it, there was an episode of Thundaar the
                                              Barbarian where someone made a sword that had a battery charged
                                              by "red lightning."

                                              > Personally, I'd consider the charge that came from the
                                              electrical generation mutation to be static energy, same as a
                                              lightning bolt. Ever hear of anyone being able to recharge a battery
                                              with a lightning bolt?
                                              >
                                              >
                                              > Ralph
                                            • Vanzirra Dreelantar
                                              If you check out Paul s site, you should find a mtation on one of my files that covers things like charging up power cells. (It s been a while but I think the
                                              Message 22 of 22 , Mar 4, 2006
                                                If you check out Paul's site, you should find a mtation on one of my
                                                files that covers things like charging up power cells. (It's been a
                                                while but I think the mutation is called Mental Battery) It also allows
                                                the mutant to provide power to an item in his/her/its
                                                hand/paw/flipper/whatever.

                                                This mutation is not strong enough to cause damage, so it fits right in
                                                with your ruling that Electrical Generation could not be used for
                                                charging up power cells.

                                                Zirra


                                                --- In gammaworld@yahoogroups.com, Robert Weber <bobjester28@...> wrote:
                                                >
                                                > Hi all,
                                                >
                                                > A player asked me if his electrical generation mutation could be
                                                used to charge up batteries & power cells. I'm using 4th ed rules,
                                                which tells how much damage the mutation can cause every round, but the
                                                description is completely void of other uses, besides damage.
                                                >
                                                > I've got my own answer for this, which is "No, electrical
                                                generation cannot be used for any other practical use, besides causing
                                                harm." but I wanted to get other people's rulings on this mutation, 4th
                                                ed or otherwise.
                                                >
                                                > Also, can the damage caused be used against bots ala, EMP?
                                                >
                                                > Thanx!
                                                > Bobjester
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