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Re: [gamedesign-l] Long range movement

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  • James Ramirez
    ... You are asking about two different issues: 1. How do I deal with long distance projection of force? 2. How do I deal with strategic naval movement? You may
    Message 1 of 6 , Feb 1, 2001
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      >Any suggestions on computer or board games that dealt with this issue
      >realistically on a centuries timescale would be helpful. I realize there's
      >the possibility it hasn't been done before. If so, what would irritate you
      >naval guys the most about doing it wrong? Bear in mind that this isn't
      >going to be a game about every single doo-dad that was ever fitted on a
      >ship. Think BIG PICTURE. How fleets behaved at the strategic level in
      >different historical eras.

      You are asking about two different issues:

      1. How do I deal with long distance projection of force?
      2. How do I deal with strategic naval movement?

      You may find some of the numerous resources [real and web] on Go [also known as
      igo, weiqi, or baduk] useful for the former since the game is focused on
      projection of force. Of particular use, I imagine, would be Go-playing programs.

      For the latter, I would suggest moving away from the traditional abstractions of
      support, colonization and settlements used in Civilization II and Alpha
      Centauri. Key limitations in strategic naval power were how long a vessel [or
      fleet] could support itself which led to the kind of 'take-the-coast' attitudes
      you mention when this figure was measured in months rather than years. Concepts
      that would need addressing include: foraging, non-city ports [ie places the crew
      could set up to maintain or repair the vessel], supplies and everyman
      technologies [ie some measure of what things could be repaired by crew -
      brigatines vs nuclear submarines, etc].

      As well as considering turn length [which I would suggest making one month] you
      need more granularity in effective ranges for shipboard weapons [or port
      emplacements or aircraft-borne weapons] and vision for obvious reasons. Alpha
      Centauri has two ranges 'assault' and 'artillery', three if you include 'missile
      unit'. You would need several more flavours of 'artillery'.

      You would need to put together a far more complete diplomatic system than I have
      seen elsewhere. You may want to examine the merit of including a "restlessness"
      rating [ie Where neutral or unfriendly powers have units nearby one another,
      there is an increasing risk of hostilities breaking out or some kind of ground
      action. See what happens diplomatically whenever China stages war-games near
      Taiwan, for example]. This would neccesitate some measure of what overt stance a
      player currently had, as well as was currently aiming towards, for another [ie I
      have a stance of 'friendly' towards a power, and am aiming towards being
      'allied'. By reducing my troop levels along a common border I can improve how
      near I am to the new stance].

      Regards,

      James
    • John Ludlow
      Ah, I see what you mean. Each turn represents too much time. You could do a Shogun style thing - each turn is a season. But you have to be careful - what if
      Message 2 of 6 , Feb 3, 2001
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        Ah, I see what you mean. Each turn represents too much time. You could do
        a Shogun style thing - each turn is a season. But you have to be careful -
        what if you are waiting for something that does take 20 years. Doing it at
        a season a turn will mean it'll take 80 turns, as opposed to Civ's 20.

        I suggested an RTS with variable game speed - does that help you?
      • Geoff Howland
        ... Havent seen it in action yet, but its got an impressive array of art across times. They had a calendar thing of all the ages in PC Gamer a while back.
        Message 3 of 6 , Feb 3, 2001
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          > One thing I forgot - take a look at Empire Earth. It's a new game, trying
          > to be Civ crossed with AOE2. Will it work? I can't say - only seen a
          > trailer.

          Havent seen it in action yet, but its got an impressive array of art across times. They
          had a calendar thing of all the ages in PC Gamer a while back. Quite cool looking in that
          regard no matter how its plays.

          -Geoff
        • John Ludlow
          One thing I forgot - take a look at Empire Earth. It s a new game, trying to be Civ crossed with AOE2. Will it work? I can t say - only seen a trailer.
          Message 4 of 6 , Feb 3, 2001
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            One thing I forgot - take a look at Empire Earth. It's a new game, trying
            to be Civ crossed with AOE2. Will it work? I can't say - only seen a
            trailer.
          • Brandon J. Van Every
            ... http://www.sierrastudios.com/games/empireearth/ Nice eye candy. Read a number of the designer diaries. Looks to be a game of historical flavor, rather
            Message 5 of 6 , Feb 3, 2001
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              > One thing I forgot - take a look at Empire Earth. It's a new game, trying
              > to be Civ crossed with AOE2. Will it work? I can't say - only seen a
              > trailer.

              http://www.sierrastudios.com/games/empireearth/

              Nice eye candy. Read a number of the designer diaries. Looks to be a game
              of historical flavor, rather than historical logic, which is more the puzzle
              I'm after. Judging by their descriptions I would expect a zillion flavorful
              things, and the question is whether those zillion things play well. Pretty
              much a matter of artistry that we won't know until we try it. But in any
              event, the title looks rather high budget and should keep the genre of
              Civ-ish games alive.


              Cheers, www.3DProgrammer.com
              Brandon Van Every Seattle, WA
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