Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.
 

Re: [Gabon Discussion] re: "Bongo on Terrorism"

Expand Messages
  • dupont3@juno.com
    Yes, I have seen how the some Gabonese people live. I have been to poorly supplied hospitals and schools. I have seen what you consider to be the obvious
    Message 1 of 24 , Aug 20, 2003
      Yes, I have seen how the some Gabonese people live. I have been to poorly
      supplied hospitals and schools. I have seen what you consider to be the
      obvious hypocrisy.
      But I know that here in America the lifestyle of many poor people is no
      different. It is just on a different scale. Most poor people here in the
      US do not have health insurance. While rich people spend money lavishly
      in the midst of a lot of pain and suffering. Homeless people abound on
      the streets and our political system although 2 party, disenfranchises
      many potentially great opponents. It is like. "been there done that" when
      you try to focus on that type of stuff when talking about a nations
      development in a capitalist system. Maybe a socialist system like in
      Cuba would better achieve what you want in Gabon.
      I think that a healthy dose of idealism is what it takes to jump start
      any successful capitalist economy. There is nothing wrong with a healthy
      dose of idealism, in fact, one can argue that idealistic values are the
      foundations of a healthy democracy. The hard part is getting people to
      believe in the face of the harsh realities of capitalism.
      Now to say that a majority of people do not support President Bongo is
      not true. He has won elections fair and square, for all that's worth
      and beyond that is the most capable person for the job. The man is a
      national treasure! Why would you want him out?
      If you can not work with leaders like President Bongo then you are not
      being realistic about facing the challenges of such underdeveloped
      nations in Africa.You might be afraid to deal with the hard issues and
      instead choose to focus on the stuff that makes good soap opera.
      I say lets look at the big picture when it comes to world poverty. Step
      back and look at this picture and you will see that the difference points
      to the policies of the so-called first world nations and not that of a
      few seemingly wealthy(and well meaning) leaders who are still poor in
      comparison.

      Ciao,
      dupont


      On Tue, 19 Aug 2003 19:36:16 +0000 "C Yombi" <c_yombi@...>
      writes:
      > With all due respect,
      > You have visited Gabon but have you lived on the people's level?
      > Have you
      > seen all of the largess that Bongo has spread to only his"friends"?
      > Have you
      > seen the prisons and the schools? Have you seen all of the obvious
      > hypocrisy? Do you realize that Bongo only repaired the national
      > train
      > service so he could send his fleet of expensive cars to Franceville
      > for his
      > annual vacation? How many Gabonese can take a vacation to the
      > capital
      > annually? Any nation that has to rely on Peace Corps to distribute
      > condoms
      > while trucks get to every corner distributing soft drinks has a
      > problem and
      > it starts with the government.
      >
      > Also, when a majority of the population does not support the
      > president and
      > had little or no voice to change this, is this a great democracy?
      > Another
      > principle of the United State's founding fathers was freedom of
      > choice. Have
      > you ever heard of Neo-colonialism?
      >
      > How can individuals work toward supporting their governments and
      > country if
      > the government is taking food out of their mouths and spending it on
      > lavish
      > trips to Paris? Have you been to rural health clinics where women
      > struggle
      > to keep their children healthy or talked to primary school students
      > who have
      > no teachers? May be a less idealistic and more realistic approach to
      > the
      > reality of one party governments in Africa would be a better
      > approach.
      >
      > Carol
      >
      >
      >
      > >From: dupont3@...
      > >Reply-To: gabondiscussion@yahoogroups.com
      > >To: gabondiscussion@yahoogroups.com
      > >Subject: Re: [Gabon Discussion] re: "Bongo on Terrorism"
      > >Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2003 10:05:13 -0700
      > >
      > >Well , with all due respect, I think that concentrating on Bongo's
      > bank
      > >account will get you nowhere.
      > >Ever thought about working with the President to solve some of the
      > >nations problems?
      > >Here in America we have many of the same problems and this is the
      > >wealthiest country in the world!
      > >We have an epidemic of homeless people, decaying schools in inner
      > cities
      > >and a railroad(Amtrak) that cannot get its thing together. We are
      > >spending 4 Billion dollars a month in Iraq at a time when our
      > schools
      > >need books.
      > >I would also like to ask how is it that having President Bongo step
      > down
      > >be good for Gabon or change the current situation for the better?
      > >I have been to Gabon and it seems like the country is dependent on
      > the
      > >French for many things. If the French were to leave would it make
      > >anything better? I think not, it would not make anything better
      > and
      > >getting rid of President Bongo would probably destabilize the
      > country and
      > >the region has the resulting power grab would be like going back in
      > time.
      > >I think that it is a shame that many Africans seem to think more
      > about
      > >fighting for power than the issues important for developing their
      > >country.
      > >It is time to look beyond forced power sharing as a solution. In
      > Gabon
      > >each citizen must first make an effort to support the state. Only
      > then
      > >will you find the necessary energy to tackle major issues.The
      > founding
      > >fathers of the US went by a decree "United We Stand Divided We
      > Fall"
      > >Every nation that aspires to economic success must first find a
      > common
      > >ground to stand on.
      > >The Gabonese are a beautiful and special people and sure, there are
      > many
      > >who disagree with the President. But there are also many who do
      > not
      > >understand what a great leader that they have in Bongo. Many who do
      > not
      > >understand the complete geopolitical challenge that not only
      > Africans,
      > >but most 3rd world nations face when trying to develop their
      > economies in
      > >this new world order.
      > >Lets discuss bold new ideas and initiatives that can help the
      > President
      > >lead Gabon into the 21st century.
      > >I love the famous quote in President John F Kennedy's inauguration
      > speech
      > >when he said, "ask not what your country can do for you, but what
      > you can
      > >do for your country."
      > >Yes, those are just words, but words, if understood correctly, can
      > >inspire man to great heights.
      > >
      > >ciao,
      > >dupont
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >On Mon, 18 Aug 2003 20:46:21 +0000 "C Yombi" <c_yombi@...>
      > >writes:
      > > > After having lived in a small town - Leconi - with a "Bongo
      > house"
      > > > while my
      > > > neighbors could hardly afford to send their children to school
      > and
      > > > riding on
      > > > the trans-gabonese railway wondering if we were going to end up
      > in
      > > > the water
      > > > because of track neglect, I tend to think words are just that -
      > > > words. Don't
      > > > forget that Bongo is bankrolled by the French government in
      > order to
      > > > have
      > > > control over Gabon's dwendling oil wealth. Look at Bongo's bank
      > > > accounts and
      > > > then at the decaying state of Bongo University in LBV. If Bongo
      > is
      > > > such a
      > > > good leader, why did he feel the need to renig on his promise
      > to
      > > > step down
      > > > in 2005 by ammending the constitution to rule forever? Ask many
      > > > Gabonese and
      > > > they would vhemently disagree with you.
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > >From: "dupont6" <dupont3@...>
      > > > >Reply-To: gabondiscussion@yahoogroups.com
      > > > >To: gabondiscussion@yahoogroups.com
      > > > >Subject: [Gabon Discussion] re: "Bongo on Terrorism"
      > > > >Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2003 17:51:43 -0000
      > > > >
      > > > >Hello:
      > > > >I think that stability in any country in Africa depends more
      > on
      > > > just
      > > > >military troops and Presidential guards. Of course all leaders
      > of
      > > > >states have serious amounts of protection, but does that
      > "keep"
      > > > them
      > > > >in power? I am more interested in what Bongo has to say about
      > the
      > > > >political challenges Africans have to face. I think that it is
      > > > >important to focus now on economic development and aid for
      > African
      > > > >countries. I like what Bongo has to say about how the marketing
      > of
      > > > >resources coming out of most African states are not controlled
      > by
      > > > the
      > > > >states themselves but by external entities.
      > > > >For example, it is important to develop the infrastructure
      > where
      > > > oil
      > > > >producing states are actually refining the oil that is
      > produced.
      > > > Or
      > > > >where companies marketing the by-products of resources like
      > > > timber,
      > > > >gold and diamonds are actually based and run by Africans native
      > to
      > > > >the region where they are produced. These things are more
      > > > important
      > > > >to the development of peoples lives than who is in political
      > > > control
      > > > >or what politician has the most money stashed away. I think
      > > > arguably
      > > > >that an intelligent and capable African head of state deserves
      > to
      > > > >have as much money as the Queen of England or Bill Gates for
      > that
      > > > >matter. Here in America, individuals speculating in the stock
      > > > market
      > > > >can amass wealth and power beyond that of a resource rich
      > African
      > > > >country!
      > > > >I agree that Bongo is a better leader to his country than Bush
      > or
      > > > >Blair. His political intelligence seems to be leaps and
      > bounds
      > > > >beyond what Bush has to offer for instance. That is why I
      > think
      > > > that
      > > > >he is extremely important for Gabon and for Africa at this
      > time.
      > > > >We have seen in America how term limits together with the
      > > > influence
      > > > >of special interest in campaign politics has eroded the quality
      > of
      > > > >leaders that are put in the positions of power. We are seeing
      > that
      > > > it
      > > > >is the "quality" not quantity that is important when it comes
      > to
      > > > >political leadership.
      > > > >Also, what does it say about the leadership of African states
      > if
      > > > it
      > > > >is so easy for Chinese or any other powerful nation to gain
      > > > economic
      > > > >or political control?
      > > > >So I support President Bongo and hope that his agenda reaches
      > the
      > > > >ears of those world leaders in power who truly care about the
      > > > >development of the African continent. Maybe after the debaucle
      > in
      > > > >Liberia, politicians(especially black leaders) here in the
      > states
      > > > >will put more effort into understanding what economic
      > development
      > > > in
      > > > >Africa means to world stability.
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > >Ciao,
      > > > >dupont
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > >On Mon, 18 Aug 2003 02:16:49 -0000 "bobutne" <bobutne@...>
      > > > writes:
      > > > >
      > > > > >
      > > > > > M'bolo dupont.
      > > > > >
      > > > > > President Omar Bongo must share (and, probably, abdicate)
      > > > > > the "stability to Gabon" mantle with the French (5,000
      > troops
      > > > in
      > > > > > Gabon and a large garrison surrounding/protecting the
      > > > Presidential
      > > > > > palace) who have worked to assure that he is kept in power.
      > The
      > > > 500
      > > > > >
      > > > > > Moroccan Presidential Guard helps, too.
      > > > > >
      > > > > > Bush and Blair are actually debasing the US and Britain
      > world
      > > > > > hegemony by their unilateral actions. President Omar Bongo
      > is
      > > > doing
      > > > > >
      > > > > > a better job for Gabon than GWB is doing for the US and
      > world.
      > > > > >
      > > > > > The door to Africa is becoming closed to the West and is
      > being
      > > > left
      > > > > >
      > > > > > wide open for the Chinese to walk right in to gain economic
      > and
      > > > > > political control. I could expound on this for many, many
      > pages
      > > > on
      > > > > > here but will desist for now.
      > > > > >
      > > > > >
      > > > > >
      > > > > >
      > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
      > > > > > ---------------------~-->
      > > > > > Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for Your HP, Epson, Canon
      > or
      > > > > > Lexmark
      > > > > > Printer at Myinks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the
      > US
      > > > &
      > > > > > Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511
      > > > > > http://us.click.yahoo.com/l.m7sD/LIdGAA/qnsNAA/JWorlB/TM
      > > > > >
      > > >
      > --------------------------------------------------------------------
      > > > >-~->
      > > > > >
      > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
      > > > > > gabondiscussion-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
      > > > > >
      > > > > >
      > > > > >
      > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
      > > > > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
      > > > > >
      > > > > >
      > > > > >
      > > > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > _________________________________________________________________
      > > > Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*.
      > > > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
      > > >
      > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
      > > > gabondiscussion-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
      > > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      >
      > _________________________________________________________________
      > <b>Get MSN 8</b> and help protect your children with advanced
      > parental
      > controls. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/parental
      >
      >
      > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
      >
      > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
      > gabondiscussion-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
      >
      >
      >
      > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
      > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
      >
      >
      >
      >
    • dupont3@juno.com
      Well us westerners had the answers in Germany and Japan afer the war when we helped to rebuilt those economies. We certainly have the answer for keeping the
      Message 2 of 24 , Aug 20, 2003
        Well us westerners had the answers in Germany and Japan afer the war when
        we helped to rebuilt those economies.
        We certainly have the answer for keeping the Israel economy propped up
        despite all of the violence there.
        By all means I think that we certainly have an answer for the bulk of any
        development questions for Gabon and other potentually economic
        significant states in Africa..
        First of all lets get rid of the debt that many of these countries have
        to pay. Then how about a "Marshall Plan" for Africa?
        Where we invest in an educated workforce, building industries and
        creating trading partners in much the same way that we deal with Europe
        and Asia.
        This is the way that we advanced our National Security in the past and it
        seems to be equally relevant in this era of terrorist activity today.
        Now can we focus on how this would actually work?

        Ciao,
        dupont

        On Tue, 19 Aug 2003 19:28:07 -0000 "bobutne" <bobutne@...> writes:

        > First things first. We Westerners do not have the answers. The
        > questions and answers must emerge from the Gabonese.
        >
        >





        > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
        >
        > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
        > gabondiscussion-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
        >
        >
        >
        > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
        > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
        >
        >
        >
        >
      • tracywerblow
        Hello, I respectfully want to point out that it is not a useful comparison to place the poor of America next to the poor of Gabon. YOu know that the stardard
        Message 3 of 24 , Aug 21, 2003
          Hello,

          I respectfully want to point out that it is not a useful comparison
          to place the poor of America next to the poor of Gabon. YOu know
          that the stardard is not the same. We do have homeless, hungry
          people in the US, but even they live in better conditions that the
          Gabonese and seem almost rich in comparison. The collective
          infrastructure here is developed and conditions are more sanitairy
          and there are services available to help the poor.
          This is very much lacking in Gabon. Not only that, but here in the
          US the poor who live in truly horrible conditions are a minority, in
          Gabon it is the majority of the population.
          The Gabonese government actually has a policy to ensure that the
          people do not receive a good education with the theory that educated
          people would know how to do something about their situation and
          therefore be a threat to the government (by its probable removal).
          Moreover, there is not any opportunity to improve one's condition in
          Gabon without conections as nephatism is rampant and education means
          nothing in procuring jobs or status. What eles could you expect from
          a government with a president that has his ministers sign an undated
          resignation letter to procure their place in the government?
          Something that Bongo has continued from his predecessor Leon Mba (See
          Darlington's "African Betrayal").

          Tracy

          Hi Carol! ;)




          - In gabondiscussion@yahoogroups.com, dupont3@j... wrote:
          > Yes, I have seen how the some Gabonese people live. I have been to
          poorly
          > supplied hospitals and schools. I have seen what you consider to be
          the
          > obvious hypocrisy.
          > But I know that here in America the lifestyle of many poor people
          is no
          > different. It is just on a different scale. Most poor people here
          in the
          > US do not have health insurance. While rich people spend money
          lavishly
          > in the midst of a lot of pain and suffering. Homeless people abound
          on
          > the streets and our political system although 2 party,
          disenfranchises
          > many potentially great opponents. It is like. "been there done
          that" when
          > you try to focus on that type of stuff when talking about a nations
          > development in a capitalist system. Maybe a socialist system like
          in
          > Cuba would better achieve what you want in Gabon.
          > I think that a healthy dose of idealism is what it takes to jump
          start
          > any successful capitalist economy. There is nothing wrong with a
          healthy
          > dose of idealism, in fact, one can argue that idealistic values are
          the
          > foundations of a healthy democracy. The hard part is getting people
          to
          > believe in the face of the harsh realities of capitalism.
          > Now to say that a majority of people do not support President Bongo
          is
          > not true. He has won elections fair and square, for all that's
          worth
          > and beyond that is the most capable person for the job. The man is a
          > national treasure! Why would you want him out?
          > If you can not work with leaders like President Bongo then you are
          not
          > being realistic about facing the challenges of such underdeveloped
          > nations in Africa.You might be afraid to deal with the hard issues
          and
          > instead choose to focus on the stuff that makes good soap opera.
          > I say lets look at the big picture when it comes to world poverty.
          Step
          > back and look at this picture and you will see that the difference
          points
          > to the policies of the so-called first world nations and not that
          of a
          > few seemingly wealthy(and well meaning) leaders who are still poor
          in
          > comparison.
          >
          > Ciao,
          > dupont
          >
          >
          > On Tue, 19 Aug 2003 19:36:16 +0000 "C Yombi" <c_yombi@h...>
          > writes:
          > > With all due respect,
          > > You have visited Gabon but have you lived on the people's level?
          > > Have you
          > > seen all of the largess that Bongo has spread to only
          his"friends"?
          > > Have you
          > > seen the prisons and the schools? Have you seen all of the
          obvious
          > > hypocrisy? Do you realize that Bongo only repaired the national
          > > train
          > > service so he could send his fleet of expensive cars to
          Franceville
          > > for his
          > > annual vacation? How many Gabonese can take a vacation to the
          > > capital
          > > annually? Any nation that has to rely on Peace Corps to
          distribute
          > > condoms
          > > while trucks get to every corner distributing soft drinks has a
          > > problem and
          > > it starts with the government.
          > >
          > > Also, when a majority of the population does not support the
          > > president and
          > > had little or no voice to change this, is this a great democracy?
          > > Another
          > > principle of the United State's founding fathers was freedom of
          > > choice. Have
          > > you ever heard of Neo-colonialism?
          > >
          > > How can individuals work toward supporting their governments and
          > > country if
          > > the government is taking food out of their mouths and spending it
          on
          > > lavish
          > > trips to Paris? Have you been to rural health clinics where women
          > > struggle
          > > to keep their children healthy or talked to primary school
          students
          > > who have
          > > no teachers? May be a less idealistic and more realistic approach
          to
          > > the
          > > reality of one party governments in Africa would be a better
          > > approach.
          > >
          > > Carol
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > >From: dupont3@j...
          > > >Reply-To: gabondiscussion@yahoogroups.com
          > > >To: gabondiscussion@yahoogroups.com
          > > >Subject: Re: [Gabon Discussion] re: "Bongo on Terrorism"
          > > >Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2003 10:05:13 -0700
          > > >
          > > >Well , with all due respect, I think that concentrating on
          Bongo's
          > > bank
          > > >account will get you nowhere.
          > > >Ever thought about working with the President to solve some of
          the
          > > >nations problems?
          > > >Here in America we have many of the same problems and this is the
          > > >wealthiest country in the world!
          > > >We have an epidemic of homeless people, decaying schools in
          inner
          > > cities
          > > >and a railroad(Amtrak) that cannot get its thing together. We are
          > > >spending 4 Billion dollars a month in Iraq at a time when our
          > > schools
          > > >need books.
          > > >I would also like to ask how is it that having President Bongo
          step
          > > down
          > > >be good for Gabon or change the current situation for the better?
          > > >I have been to Gabon and it seems like the country is dependent
          on
          > > the
          > > >French for many things. If the French were to leave would it make
          > > >anything better? I think not, it would not make anything better
          > > and
          > > >getting rid of President Bongo would probably destabilize the
          > > country and
          > > >the region has the resulting power grab would be like going back
          in
          > > time.
          > > >I think that it is a shame that many Africans seem to think more
          > > about
          > > >fighting for power than the issues important for developing their
          > > >country.
          > > >It is time to look beyond forced power sharing as a solution. In
          > > Gabon
          > > >each citizen must first make an effort to support the state.
          Only
          > > then
          > > >will you find the necessary energy to tackle major issues.The
          > > founding
          > > >fathers of the US went by a decree "United We Stand Divided We
          > > Fall"
          > > >Every nation that aspires to economic success must first find a
          > > common
          > > >ground to stand on.
          > > >The Gabonese are a beautiful and special people and sure, there
          are
          > > many
          > > >who disagree with the President. But there are also many who do
          > > not
          > > >understand what a great leader that they have in Bongo. Many who
          do
          > > not
          > > >understand the complete geopolitical challenge that not only
          > > Africans,
          > > >but most 3rd world nations face when trying to develop their
          > > economies in
          > > >this new world order.
          > > >Lets discuss bold new ideas and initiatives that can help the
          > > President
          > > >lead Gabon into the 21st century.
          > > >I love the famous quote in President John F Kennedy's
          inauguration
          > > speech
          > > >when he said, "ask not what your country can do for you, but
          what
          > > you can
          > > >do for your country."
          > > >Yes, those are just words, but words, if understood correctly,
          can
          > > >inspire man to great heights.
          > > >
          > > >ciao,
          > > >dupont
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >On Mon, 18 Aug 2003 20:46:21 +0000 "C Yombi" <c_yombi@h...>
          > > >writes:
          > > > > After having lived in a small town - Leconi - with a "Bongo
          > > house"
          > > > > while my
          > > > > neighbors could hardly afford to send their children to
          school
          > > and
          > > > > riding on
          > > > > the trans-gabonese railway wondering if we were going to end
          up
          > > in
          > > > > the water
          > > > > because of track neglect, I tend to think words are just
          that -
          > > > > words. Don't
          > > > > forget that Bongo is bankrolled by the French government in
          > > order to
          > > > > have
          > > > > control over Gabon's dwendling oil wealth. Look at Bongo's
          bank
          > > > > accounts and
          > > > > then at the decaying state of Bongo University in LBV. If
          Bongo
          > > is
          > > > > such a
          > > > > good leader, why did he feel the need to renig on his promise
          > > to
          > > > > step down
          > > > > in 2005 by ammending the constitution to rule forever? Ask
          many
          > > > > Gabonese and
          > > > > they would vhemently disagree with you.
          > > > >
          > > > >
          > > > > >From: "dupont6" <dupont3@j...>
          > > > > >Reply-To: gabondiscussion@yahoogroups.com
          > > > > >To: gabondiscussion@yahoogroups.com
          > > > > >Subject: [Gabon Discussion] re: "Bongo on Terrorism"
          > > > > >Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2003 17:51:43 -0000
          > > > > >
          > > > > >Hello:
          > > > > >I think that stability in any country in Africa depends more
          > > on
          > > > > just
          > > > > >military troops and Presidential guards. Of course all
          leaders
          > > of
          > > > > >states have serious amounts of protection, but does that
          > > "keep"
          > > > > them
          > > > > >in power? I am more interested in what Bongo has to say
          about
          > > the
          > > > > >political challenges Africans have to face. I think that it
          is
          > > > > >important to focus now on economic development and aid for
          > > African
          > > > > >countries. I like what Bongo has to say about how the
          marketing
          > > of
          > > > > >resources coming out of most African states are not
          controlled
          > > by
          > > > > the
          > > > > >states themselves but by external entities.
          > > > > >For example, it is important to develop the infrastructure
          > > where
          > > > > oil
          > > > > >producing states are actually refining the oil that is
          > > produced.
          > > > > Or
          > > > > >where companies marketing the by-products of resources like
          > > > > timber,
          > > > > >gold and diamonds are actually based and run by Africans
          native
          > > to
          > > > > >the region where they are produced. These things are more
          > > > > important
          > > > > >to the development of peoples lives than who is in political
          > > > > control
          > > > > >or what politician has the most money stashed away. I think
          > > > > arguably
          > > > > >that an intelligent and capable African head of state
          deserves
          > > to
          > > > > >have as much money as the Queen of England or Bill Gates for
          > > that
          > > > > >matter. Here in America, individuals speculating in the stock
          > > > > market
          > > > > >can amass wealth and power beyond that of a resource rich
          > > African
          > > > > >country!
          > > > > >I agree that Bongo is a better leader to his country than
          Bush
          > > or
          > > > > >Blair. His political intelligence seems to be leaps and
          > > bounds
          > > > > >beyond what Bush has to offer for instance. That is why I
          > > think
          > > > > that
          > > > > >he is extremely important for Gabon and for Africa at this
          > > time.
          > > > > >We have seen in America how term limits together with the
          > > > > influence
          > > > > >of special interest in campaign politics has eroded the
          quality
          > > of
          > > > > >leaders that are put in the positions of power. We are
          seeing
          > > that
          > > > > it
          > > > > >is the "quality" not quantity that is important when it
          comes
          > > to
          > > > > >political leadership.
          > > > > >Also, what does it say about the leadership of African
          states
          > > if
          > > > > it
          > > > > >is so easy for Chinese or any other powerful nation to gain
          > > > > economic
          > > > > >or political control?
          > > > > >So I support President Bongo and hope that his agenda
          reaches
          > > the
          > > > > >ears of those world leaders in power who truly care about
          the
          > > > > >development of the African continent. Maybe after the
          debaucle
          > > in
          > > > > >Liberia, politicians(especially black leaders) here in the
          > > states
          > > > > >will put more effort into understanding what economic
          > > development
          > > > > in
          > > > > >Africa means to world stability.
          > > > > >
          > > > > >
          > > > > >Ciao,
          > > > > >dupont
          > > > > >
          > > > > >
          > > > > >
          > > > > >
          > > > > >On Mon, 18 Aug 2003 02:16:49 -0000 "bobutne" <bobutne@a...>
          > > > > writes:
          > > > > >
          > > > > > >
          > > > > > > M'bolo dupont.
          > > > > > >
          > > > > > > President Omar Bongo must share (and, probably, abdicate)
          > > > > > > the "stability to Gabon" mantle with the French (5,000
          > > troops
          > > > > in
          > > > > > > Gabon and a large garrison surrounding/protecting the
          > > > > Presidential
          > > > > > > palace) who have worked to assure that he is kept in
          power.
          > > The
          > > > > 500
          > > > > > >
          > > > > > > Moroccan Presidential Guard helps, too.
          > > > > > >
          > > > > > > Bush and Blair are actually debasing the US and Britain
          > > world
          > > > > > > hegemony by their unilateral actions. President Omar
          Bongo
          > > is
          > > > > doing
          > > > > > >
          > > > > > > a better job for Gabon than GWB is doing for the US and
          > > world.
          > > > > > >
          > > > > > > The door to Africa is becoming closed to the West and is
          > > being
          > > > > left
          > > > > > >
          > > > > > > wide open for the Chinese to walk right in to gain
          economic
          > > and
          > > > > > > political control. I could expound on this for many, many
          > > pages
          > > > > on
          > > > > > > here but will desist for now.
          > > > > > >
          > > > > > >
          > > > > > >
          > > > > > >
          > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
          > > > > > > ---------------------~-->
          > > > > > > Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for Your HP, Epson,
          Canon
          > > or
          > > > > > > Lexmark
          > > > > > > Printer at Myinks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to
          the
          > > US
          > > > > &
          > > > > > > Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511
          > > > > > > http://us.click.yahoo.com/l.m7sD/LIdGAA/qnsNAA/JWorlB/TM
          > > > > > >
          > > > >
          > > ------------------------------------------------------------------
          --
          > > > > >-~->
          > > > > > >
          > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
          > > > > > > gabondiscussion-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
          > > > > > >
          > > > > > >
          > > > > > >
          > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
          > > > > > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
          > > > > > >
          > > > > > >
          > > > > > >
          > > > > > >
          > > > > >
          > > > >
          > > > >
          > > _________________________________________________________________
          > > > > Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*.
          > > > > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail
          > > > >
          > > > >
          > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
          > > > >
          > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
          > > > > gabondiscussion-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
          > > > >
          > > > >
          > > > >
          > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
          > > > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
          > > > >
          > > > >
          > > > >
          > > > >
          > >
          > > _________________________________________________________________
          > > <b>Get MSN 8</b> and help protect your children with advanced
          > > parental
          > > controls. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/parental
          > >
          > >
          > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
          > >
          > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
          > > gabondiscussion-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
          > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
        • dupont3@juno.com
          Except in cases where the World Bank and International Monetary Fund(IMF) are involved. Which I am afraid is probably 95% of the 3rd world nations where
          Message 4 of 24 , Aug 21, 2003
            Except in cases where the World Bank and International Monetary Fund(IMF)
            are involved. Which I am afraid is probably 95% of the 3rd world nations
            where political and economic power is so-called, "tightly gripped."
            Even a country like China (which is governed by a Communist regime that
            has a tight grip on economic and political power) is susceptible to
            influence by foreign governments in their development by way of the World
            Trade Organization(WTO). China was recently forced to make changes in its
            economic policy in order to gain "Most Favored Nations" status in the
            WTO.
            I think that it does not matter whether you have a dictator in power or a
            long term democratically elected leader. A shift of the winds in the
            political and economic climate of the major powers or (G8) countries will
            ultimately influence what goes on in those countries. Not to mention the
            recent trend of preemptive military confrontation established by Bush
            that now threatens the sovereignty of many nations.

            Ciao,
            dupont


            On Thu, 21 Aug 2003 01:17:06 -0000 "bobutne" <bobutne@...> writes:
            > When political and economic power is tightly gripped in only a few
            > hands, attempts by foreign governemnets and NGO's to influence a
            > nation's development are futile.
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
            >
            > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
            > gabondiscussion-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
            >
            >
            >
            > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
            > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
            >
            >
            >
            >
          • dupont3@juno.com
            Well my comparison was meant to show how we both have much of the same problems. Even though one nation is trillions of dollars richer than the other! Of
            Message 5 of 24 , Aug 21, 2003
              Well my comparison was meant to show how we both have much of the same
              problems. Even though one nation is trillions of dollars richer than the
              other! Of course you have to consider that many of the Gabonese people
              are tribal natives and that most of the country is rain forest with some
              regions even unexplored. Compared that to our problems in the over
              developed US. I would wager that a homeless person living on the street
              in America is not rich compared to a homeless Gabonese. That is a
              ridiculous assumption considering the stress and indignity of such a
              life in America. What is the suicide rate in the US compared to Gabon?
              For example. in Japan people are killing themselves daily because of the
              stress.
              Do you really believe that the Gabonese government has a policy to keep
              people uneducated? Why even go there without considering the possibility
              that the Bush administration had something to do with 9/11?
              I am trying to show you that whatever you think is bad about the
              Gabonese leadership is multiplied exponentially when you look in the
              mirror and focus on your own government here in the US. That does not
              make it ok, but if the reality is such, then shouldn't we focus on what
              truly makes a difference?

              Ciao,
              dupont


              On Thu, 21 Aug 2003 14:52:45 -0000 "tracywerblow"
              <tracywerblow@...> writes:
              > Hello,
              >
              > I respectfully want to point out that it is not a useful comparison
              >
              > to place the poor of America next to the poor of Gabon. YOu know
              > that the stardard is not the same. We do have homeless, hungry
              > people in the US, but even they live in better conditions that the
              > Gabonese and seem almost rich in comparison. The collective
              > infrastructure here is developed and conditions are more sanitairy
              > and there are services available to help the poor.
              > This is very much lacking in Gabon. Not only that, but here in the
              >
              > US the poor who live in truly horrible conditions are a minority, in
              >
              > Gabon it is the majority of the population.
              > The Gabonese government actually has a policy to ensure that the
              > people do not receive a good education with the theory that educated
              >
              > people would know how to do something about their situation and
              > therefore be a threat to the government (by its probable removal).
              >
              > Moreover, there is not any opportunity to improve one's condition in
              >
              > Gabon without conections as nephatism is rampant and education means
              >
              > nothing in procuring jobs or status. What eles could you expect
              > from
              > a government with a president that has his ministers sign an undated
              >
              > resignation letter to procure their place in the government?
              > Something that Bongo has continued from his predecessor Leon Mba
              > (See
              > Darlington's "African Betrayal").
              >
              > Tracy
              >
              > Hi Carol! ;)
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > - In gabondiscussion@yahoogroups.com, dupont3@j... wrote:
              > > Yes, I have seen how the some Gabonese people live. I have been to
              >
              > poorly
              > > supplied hospitals and schools. I have seen what you consider to
              > be
              > the
              > > obvious hypocrisy.
              > > But I know that here in America the lifestyle of many poor people
              >
              > is no
              > > different. It is just on a different scale. Most poor people here
              >
              > in the
              > > US do not have health insurance. While rich people spend money
              > lavishly
              > > in the midst of a lot of pain and suffering. Homeless people
              > abound
              > on
              > > the streets and our political system although 2 party,
              > disenfranchises
              > > many potentially great opponents. It is like. "been there done
              > that" when
              > > you try to focus on that type of stuff when talking about a
              > nations
              > > development in a capitalist system. Maybe a socialist system like
              >
              > in
              > > Cuba would better achieve what you want in Gabon.
              > > I think that a healthy dose of idealism is what it takes to jump
              > start
              > > any successful capitalist economy. There is nothing wrong with a
              > healthy
              > > dose of idealism, in fact, one can argue that idealistic values
              > are
              > the
              > > foundations of a healthy democracy. The hard part is getting
              > people
              > to
              > > believe in the face of the harsh realities of capitalism.
              > > Now to say that a majority of people do not support President
              > Bongo
              > is
              > > not true. He has won elections fair and square, for all that's
              >
              > worth
              > > and beyond that is the most capable person for the job. The man is
              > a
              > > national treasure! Why would you want him out?
              > > If you can not work with leaders like President Bongo then you are
              >
              > not
              > > being realistic about facing the challenges of such
              > underdeveloped
              > > nations in Africa.You might be afraid to deal with the hard issues
              >
              > and
              > > instead choose to focus on the stuff that makes good soap opera.
              > > I say lets look at the big picture when it comes to world poverty.
              >
              > Step
              > > back and look at this picture and you will see that the difference
              >
              > points
              > > to the policies of the so-called first world nations and not that
              >
              > of a
              > > few seemingly wealthy(and well meaning) leaders who are still poor
              >
              > in
              > > comparison.
              > >
              > > Ciao,
              > > dupont
              > >
              > >
              > > On Tue, 19 Aug 2003 19:36:16 +0000 "C Yombi" <c_yombi@h...>
              > > writes:
              > > > With all due respect,
              > > > You have visited Gabon but have you lived on the people's level?
              >
              > > > Have you
              > > > seen all of the largess that Bongo has spread to only
              > his"friends"?
              > > > Have you
              > > > seen the prisons and the schools? Have you seen all of the
              > obvious
              > > > hypocrisy? Do you realize that Bongo only repaired the national
              >
              > > > train
              > > > service so he could send his fleet of expensive cars to
              > Franceville
              > > > for his
              > > > annual vacation? How many Gabonese can take a vacation to the
              > > > capital
              > > > annually? Any nation that has to rely on Peace Corps to
              > distribute
              > > > condoms
              > > > while trucks get to every corner distributing soft drinks has a
              >
              > > > problem and
              > > > it starts with the government.
              > > >
              > > > Also, when a majority of the population does not support the
              > > > president and
              > > > had little or no voice to change this, is this a great
              > democracy?
              > > > Another
              > > > principle of the United State's founding fathers was freedom of
              >
              > > > choice. Have
              > > > you ever heard of Neo-colonialism?
              > > >
              > > > How can individuals work toward supporting their governments and
              >
              > > > country if
              > > > the government is taking food out of their mouths and spending
              > it
              > on
              > > > lavish
              > > > trips to Paris? Have you been to rural health clinics where
              > women
              > > > struggle
              > > > to keep their children healthy or talked to primary school
              > students
              > > > who have
              > > > no teachers? May be a less idealistic and more realistic
              > approach
              > to
              > > > the
              > > > reality of one party governments in Africa would be a better
              > > > approach.
              > > >
              > > > Carol
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > > >From: dupont3@j...
              > > > >Reply-To: gabondiscussion@yahoogroups.com
              > > > >To: gabondiscussion@yahoogroups.com
              > > > >Subject: Re: [Gabon Discussion] re: "Bongo on Terrorism"
              > > > >Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2003 10:05:13 -0700
              > > > >
              > > > >Well , with all due respect, I think that concentrating on
              > Bongo's
              > > > bank
              > > > >account will get you nowhere.
              > > > >Ever thought about working with the President to solve some of
              >
              > the
              > > > >nations problems?
              > > > >Here in America we have many of the same problems and this is
              > the
              > > > >wealthiest country in the world!
              > > > >We have an epidemic of homeless people, decaying schools in
              > inner
              > > > cities
              > > > >and a railroad(Amtrak) that cannot get its thing together. We
              > are
              > > > >spending 4 Billion dollars a month in Iraq at a time when our
              > > > schools
              > > > >need books.
              > > > >I would also like to ask how is it that having President Bongo
              >
              > step
              > > > down
              > > > >be good for Gabon or change the current situation for the
              > better?
              > > > >I have been to Gabon and it seems like the country is dependent
              >
              > on
              > > > the
              > > > >French for many things. If the French were to leave would it
              > make
              > > > >anything better? I think not, it would not make anything better
              >
              > > > and
              > > > >getting rid of President Bongo would probably destabilize the
              > > > country and
              > > > >the region has the resulting power grab would be like going
              > back
              > in
              > > > time.
              > > > >I think that it is a shame that many Africans seem to think
              > more
              > > > about
              > > > >fighting for power than the issues important for developing
              > their
              > > > >country.
              > > > >It is time to look beyond forced power sharing as a solution.
              > In
              > > > Gabon
              > > > >each citizen must first make an effort to support the state.
              > Only
              > > > then
              > > > >will you find the necessary energy to tackle major issues.The
              > > > founding
              > > > >fathers of the US went by a decree "United We Stand Divided We
              >
              > > > Fall"
              > > > >Every nation that aspires to economic success must first find a
              >
              > > > common
              > > > >ground to stand on.
              > > > >The Gabonese are a beautiful and special people and sure, there
              >
              > are
              > > > many
              > > > >who disagree with the President. But there are also many who do
              >
              > > > not
              > > > >understand what a great leader that they have in Bongo. Many
              > who
              > do
              > > > not
              > > > >understand the complete geopolitical challenge that not only
              > > > Africans,
              > > > >but most 3rd world nations face when trying to develop their
              > > > economies in
              > > > >this new world order.
              > > > >Lets discuss bold new ideas and initiatives that can help the
              > > > President
              > > > >lead Gabon into the 21st century.
              > > > >I love the famous quote in President John F Kennedy's
              > inauguration
              > > > speech
              > > > >when he said, "ask not what your country can do for you, but
              > what
              > > > you can
              > > > >do for your country."
              > > > >Yes, those are just words, but words, if understood correctly,
              >
              > can
              > > > >inspire man to great heights.
              > > > >
              > > > >ciao,
              > > > >dupont
              > > > >
              > > > >
              > > > >
              > > > >
              > > > >
              > > > >On Mon, 18 Aug 2003 20:46:21 +0000 "C Yombi" <c_yombi@h...>
              > > > >writes:
              > > > > > After having lived in a small town - Leconi - with a "Bongo
              >
              > > > house"
              > > > > > while my
              > > > > > neighbors could hardly afford to send their children to
              > school
              > > > and
              > > > > > riding on
              > > > > > the trans-gabonese railway wondering if we were going to end
              >
              > up
              > > > in
              > > > > > the water
              > > > > > because of track neglect, I tend to think words are just
              > that -
              > > > > > words. Don't
              > > > > > forget that Bongo is bankrolled by the French government in
              >
              > > > order to
              > > > > > have
              > > > > > control over Gabon's dwendling oil wealth. Look at Bongo's
              > bank
              > > > > > accounts and
              > > > > > then at the decaying state of Bongo University in LBV. If
              > Bongo
              > > > is
              > > > > > such a
              > > > > > good leader, why did he feel the need to renig on his
              > promise
              > > > to
              > > > > > step down
              > > > > > in 2005 by ammending the constitution to rule forever? Ask
              > many
              > > > > > Gabonese and
              > > > > > they would vhemently disagree with you.
              > > > > >
              > > > > >
              > > > > > >From: "dupont6" <dupont3@j...>
              > > > > > >Reply-To: gabondiscussion@yahoogroups.com
              > > > > > >To: gabondiscussion@yahoogroups.com
              > > > > > >Subject: [Gabon Discussion] re: "Bongo on Terrorism"
              > > > > > >Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2003 17:51:43 -0000
              > > > > > >
              > > > > > >Hello:
              > > > > > >I think that stability in any country in Africa depends
              > more
              > > > on
              > > > > > just
              > > > > > >military troops and Presidential guards. Of course all
              > leaders
              > > > of
              > > > > > >states have serious amounts of protection, but does that
              > > > "keep"
              > > > > > them
              > > > > > >in power? I am more interested in what Bongo has to say
              > about
              > > > the
              > > > > > >political challenges Africans have to face. I think that it
              >
              > is
              > > > > > >important to focus now on economic development and aid for
              >
              > > > African
              > > > > > >countries. I like what Bongo has to say about how the
              > marketing
              > > > of
              > > > > > >resources coming out of most African states are not
              > controlled
              > > > by
              > > > > > the
              > > > > > >states themselves but by external entities.
              > > > > > >For example, it is important to develop the infrastructure
              >
              > > > where
              > > > > > oil
              > > > > > >producing states are actually refining the oil that is
              > > > produced.
              > > > > > Or
              > > > > > >where companies marketing the by-products of resources
              > like
              > > > > > timber,
              > > > > > >gold and diamonds are actually based and run by Africans
              > native
              > > > to
              > > > > > >the region where they are produced. These things are more
              > > > > > important
              > > > > > >to the development of peoples lives than who is in
              > political
              > > > > > control
              > > > > > >or what politician has the most money stashed away. I
              > think
              > > > > > arguably
              > > > > > >that an intelligent and capable African head of state
              > deserves
              > > > to
              > > > > > >have as much money as the Queen of England or Bill Gates
              > for
              > > > that
              > > > > > >matter. Here in America, individuals speculating in the
              > stock
              > > > > > market
              > > > > > >can amass wealth and power beyond that of a resource rich
              > > > African
              > > > > > >country!
              > > > > > >I agree that Bongo is a better leader to his country than
              >
              > Bush
              > > > or
              > > > > > >Blair. His political intelligence seems to be leaps and
              > > > bounds
              > > > > > >beyond what Bush has to offer for instance. That is why I
              > > > think
              > > > > > that
              > > > > > >he is extremely important for Gabon and for Africa at this
              >
              > > > time.
              > > > > > >We have seen in America how term limits together with the
              > > > > > influence
              > > > > > >of special interest in campaign politics has eroded the
              > quality
              > > > of
              > > > > > >leaders that are put in the positions of power. We are
              > seeing
              > > > that
              > > > > > it
              > > > > > >is the "quality" not quantity that is important when it
              > comes
              > > > to
              > > > > > >political leadership.
              > > > > > >Also, what does it say about the leadership of African
              > states
              > > > if
              > > > > > it
              > > > > > >is so easy for Chinese or any other powerful nation to
              > gain
              > > > > > economic
              > > > > > >or political control?
              > > > > > >So I support President Bongo and hope that his agenda
              > reaches
              > > > the
              > > > > > >ears of those world leaders in power who truly care about
              >
              > the
              > > > > > >development of the African continent. Maybe after the
              > debaucle
              > > > in
              > > > > > >Liberia, politicians(especially black leaders) here in the
              >
              > > > states
              > > > > > >will put more effort into understanding what economic
              > > > development
              > > > > > in
              > > > > > >Africa means to world stability.
              > > > > > >
              > > > > > >
              > > > > > >Ciao,
              > > > > > >dupont
              > > > > > >
              > > > > > >
              > > > > > >
              > > > > > >
              > > > > > >On Mon, 18 Aug 2003 02:16:49 -0000 "bobutne"
              > <bobutne@a...>
              > > > > > writes:
              > > > > > >
              > > > > > > >
              > > > > > > > M'bolo dupont.
              > > > > > > >
              > > > > > > > President Omar Bongo must share (and, probably,
              > abdicate)
              > > > > > > > the "stability to Gabon" mantle with the French (5,000
              > > > troops
              > > > > > in
              > > > > > > > Gabon and a large garrison surrounding/protecting the
              > > > > > Presidential
              > > > > > > > palace) who have worked to assure that he is kept in
              > power.
              > > > The
              > > > > > 500
              > > > > > > >
              > > > > > > > Moroccan Presidential Guard helps, too.
              > > > > > > >
              > > > > > > > Bush and Blair are actually debasing the US and Britain
              >
              > > > world
              > > > > > > > hegemony by their unilateral actions. President Omar
              > Bongo
              > > > is
              > > > > > doing
              > > > > > > >
              > > > > > > > a better job for Gabon than GWB is doing for the US and
              >
              > > > world.
              > > > > > > >
              > > > > > > > The door to Africa is becoming closed to the West and is
              >
              > > > being
              > > > > > left
              > > > > > > >
              > > > > > > > wide open for the Chinese to walk right in to gain
              > economic
              > > > and
              > > > > > > > political control. I could expound on this for many,
              > many
              > > > pages
              > > > > > on
              > > > > > > > here but will desist for now.
              > > > > > > >
              > > > > > > >
              > > > > > > >
              > > > > > > >
              > > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
              > > > > > > > ---------------------~-->
              > > > > > > > Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for Your HP, Epson,
              > Canon
              > > > or
              > > > > > > > Lexmark
              > > > > > > > Printer at Myinks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to
              >
              > the
              > > > US
              > > > > > &
              > > > > > > > Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511
              > > > > > > >
              > http://us.click.yahoo.com/l.m7sD/LIdGAA/qnsNAA/JWorlB/TM
              > > > > > > >
              > > > > >
              > > >
              > ------------------------------------------------------------------
              > --
              > > > > > >-~->
              > > > > > > >
              > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
              > > > > > > > gabondiscussion-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
              > > > > > > >
              > > > > > > >
              > > > > > > >
              > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
              > > > > > > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
              > > > > > > >
              > > > > > > >
              > > > > > > >
              > > > > > > >
              > > > > > >
              > > > > >
              > > > > >
              > > >
              > _________________________________________________________________
              > > > > > Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*.
              > > > > > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail
              > > > > >
              > > > > >
              > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
              > > > > >
              > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
              > > > > > gabondiscussion-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
              > > > > >
              > > > > >
              > > > > >
              > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
              > > > > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
              > > > > >
              > > > > >
              > > > > >
              > > > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > _________________________________________________________________
              > > > <b>Get MSN 8</b> and help protect your children with advanced
              > > > parental
              > > > controls. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/parental
              > > >
              > > >
              > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
              > > >
              > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
              > > > gabondiscussion-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
              > > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              >
              >
              > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
              >
              > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
              > gabondiscussion-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
              >
              >
              >
              > use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
            • C Yombi
              Obvious point - Bongo has had almost 40 yrs to make a difference and the Gabonese are worse off now than at independence - bad track record. If you think
              Message 6 of 24 , Aug 21, 2003
                Obvious point - Bongo has had almost 40 yrs to make a difference and the
                Gabonese are worse off now than at independence - bad track record. If you
                think elections were fair and square then you do not agree with independent
                election observers form around the world. In the end, it is not what I want
                for Gabon - but what the GABONESE want for themselves - my husband included
                who is from Gabon.


                >From: dupont3@...
                >Reply-To: gabondiscussion@yahoogroups.com
                >To: gabondiscussion@yahoogroups.com
                >Subject: Re: [Gabon Discussion] re: "Bongo on Terrorism"
                >Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 12:59:19 -0700
                >
                >Yes, I have seen how the some Gabonese people live. I have been to poorly
                >supplied hospitals and schools. I have seen what you consider to be the
                >obvious hypocrisy.
                >But I know that here in America the lifestyle of many poor people is no
                >different. It is just on a different scale. Most poor people here in the
                >US do not have health insurance. While rich people spend money lavishly
                >in the midst of a lot of pain and suffering. Homeless people abound on
                >the streets and our political system although 2 party, disenfranchises
                >many potentially great opponents. It is like. "been there done that" when
                >you try to focus on that type of stuff when talking about a nations
                >development in a capitalist system. Maybe a socialist system like in
                >Cuba would better achieve what you want in Gabon.
                >I think that a healthy dose of idealism is what it takes to jump start
                >any successful capitalist economy. There is nothing wrong with a healthy
                >dose of idealism, in fact, one can argue that idealistic values are the
                >foundations of a healthy democracy. The hard part is getting people to
                >believe in the face of the harsh realities of capitalism.
                >Now to say that a majority of people do not support President Bongo is
                >not true. He has won elections fair and square, for all that's worth
                >and beyond that is the most capable person for the job. The man is a
                >national treasure! Why would you want him out?
                >If you can not work with leaders like President Bongo then you are not
                >being realistic about facing the challenges of such underdeveloped
                >nations in Africa.You might be afraid to deal with the hard issues and
                >instead choose to focus on the stuff that makes good soap opera.
                >I say lets look at the big picture when it comes to world poverty. Step
                >back and look at this picture and you will see that the difference points
                >to the policies of the so-called first world nations and not that of a
                >few seemingly wealthy(and well meaning) leaders who are still poor in
                >comparison.
                >
                >Ciao,
                >dupont
                >
                >
                >On Tue, 19 Aug 2003 19:36:16 +0000 "C Yombi" <c_yombi@...>
                >writes:
                > > With all due respect,
                > > You have visited Gabon but have you lived on the people's level?
                > > Have you
                > > seen all of the largess that Bongo has spread to only his"friends"?
                > > Have you
                > > seen the prisons and the schools? Have you seen all of the obvious
                > > hypocrisy? Do you realize that Bongo only repaired the national
                > > train
                > > service so he could send his fleet of expensive cars to Franceville
                > > for his
                > > annual vacation? How many Gabonese can take a vacation to the
                > > capital
                > > annually? Any nation that has to rely on Peace Corps to distribute
                > > condoms
                > > while trucks get to every corner distributing soft drinks has a
                > > problem and
                > > it starts with the government.
                > >
                > > Also, when a majority of the population does not support the
                > > president and
                > > had little or no voice to change this, is this a great democracy?
                > > Another
                > > principle of the United State's founding fathers was freedom of
                > > choice. Have
                > > you ever heard of Neo-colonialism?
                > >
                > > How can individuals work toward supporting their governments and
                > > country if
                > > the government is taking food out of their mouths and spending it on
                > > lavish
                > > trips to Paris? Have you been to rural health clinics where women
                > > struggle
                > > to keep their children healthy or talked to primary school students
                > > who have
                > > no teachers? May be a less idealistic and more realistic approach to
                > > the
                > > reality of one party governments in Africa would be a better
                > > approach.
                > >
                > > Carol
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > >From: dupont3@...
                > > >Reply-To: gabondiscussion@yahoogroups.com
                > > >To: gabondiscussion@yahoogroups.com
                > > >Subject: Re: [Gabon Discussion] re: "Bongo on Terrorism"
                > > >Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2003 10:05:13 -0700
                > > >
                > > >Well , with all due respect, I think that concentrating on Bongo's
                > > bank
                > > >account will get you nowhere.
                > > >Ever thought about working with the President to solve some of the
                > > >nations problems?
                > > >Here in America we have many of the same problems and this is the
                > > >wealthiest country in the world!
                > > >We have an epidemic of homeless people, decaying schools in inner
                > > cities
                > > >and a railroad(Amtrak) that cannot get its thing together. We are
                > > >spending 4 Billion dollars a month in Iraq at a time when our
                > > schools
                > > >need books.
                > > >I would also like to ask how is it that having President Bongo step
                > > down
                > > >be good for Gabon or change the current situation for the better?
                > > >I have been to Gabon and it seems like the country is dependent on
                > > the
                > > >French for many things. If the French were to leave would it make
                > > >anything better? I think not, it would not make anything better
                > > and
                > > >getting rid of President Bongo would probably destabilize the
                > > country and
                > > >the region has the resulting power grab would be like going back in
                > > time.
                > > >I think that it is a shame that many Africans seem to think more
                > > about
                > > >fighting for power than the issues important for developing their
                > > >country.
                > > >It is time to look beyond forced power sharing as a solution. In
                > > Gabon
                > > >each citizen must first make an effort to support the state. Only
                > > then
                > > >will you find the necessary energy to tackle major issues.The
                > > founding
                > > >fathers of the US went by a decree "United We Stand Divided We
                > > Fall"
                > > >Every nation that aspires to economic success must first find a
                > > common
                > > >ground to stand on.
                > > >The Gabonese are a beautiful and special people and sure, there are
                > > many
                > > >who disagree with the President. But there are also many who do
                > > not
                > > >understand what a great leader that they have in Bongo. Many who do
                > > not
                > > >understand the complete geopolitical challenge that not only
                > > Africans,
                > > >but most 3rd world nations face when trying to develop their
                > > economies in
                > > >this new world order.
                > > >Lets discuss bold new ideas and initiatives that can help the
                > > President
                > > >lead Gabon into the 21st century.
                > > >I love the famous quote in President John F Kennedy's inauguration
                > > speech
                > > >when he said, "ask not what your country can do for you, but what
                > > you can
                > > >do for your country."
                > > >Yes, those are just words, but words, if understood correctly, can
                > > >inspire man to great heights.
                > > >
                > > >ciao,
                > > >dupont
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >On Mon, 18 Aug 2003 20:46:21 +0000 "C Yombi" <c_yombi@...>
                > > >writes:
                > > > > After having lived in a small town - Leconi - with a "Bongo
                > > house"
                > > > > while my
                > > > > neighbors could hardly afford to send their children to school
                > > and
                > > > > riding on
                > > > > the trans-gabonese railway wondering if we were going to end up
                > > in
                > > > > the water
                > > > > because of track neglect, I tend to think words are just that -
                > > > > words. Don't
                > > > > forget that Bongo is bankrolled by the French government in
                > > order to
                > > > > have
                > > > > control over Gabon's dwendling oil wealth. Look at Bongo's bank
                > > > > accounts and
                > > > > then at the decaying state of Bongo University in LBV. If Bongo
                > > is
                > > > > such a
                > > > > good leader, why did he feel the need to renig on his promise
                > > to
                > > > > step down
                > > > > in 2005 by ammending the constitution to rule forever? Ask many
                > > > > Gabonese and
                > > > > they would vhemently disagree with you.
                > > > >
                > > > >
                > > > > >From: "dupont6" <dupont3@...>
                > > > > >Reply-To: gabondiscussion@yahoogroups.com
                > > > > >To: gabondiscussion@yahoogroups.com
                > > > > >Subject: [Gabon Discussion] re: "Bongo on Terrorism"
                > > > > >Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2003 17:51:43 -0000
                > > > > >
                > > > > >Hello:
                > > > > >I think that stability in any country in Africa depends more
                > > on
                > > > > just
                > > > > >military troops and Presidential guards. Of course all leaders
                > > of
                > > > > >states have serious amounts of protection, but does that
                > > "keep"
                > > > > them
                > > > > >in power? I am more interested in what Bongo has to say about
                > > the
                > > > > >political challenges Africans have to face. I think that it is
                > > > > >important to focus now on economic development and aid for
                > > African
                > > > > >countries. I like what Bongo has to say about how the marketing
                > > of
                > > > > >resources coming out of most African states are not controlled
                > > by
                > > > > the
                > > > > >states themselves but by external entities.
                > > > > >For example, it is important to develop the infrastructure
                > > where
                > > > > oil
                > > > > >producing states are actually refining the oil that is
                > > produced.
                > > > > Or
                > > > > >where companies marketing the by-products of resources like
                > > > > timber,
                > > > > >gold and diamonds are actually based and run by Africans native
                > > to
                > > > > >the region where they are produced. These things are more
                > > > > important
                > > > > >to the development of peoples lives than who is in political
                > > > > control
                > > > > >or what politician has the most money stashed away. I think
                > > > > arguably
                > > > > >that an intelligent and capable African head of state deserves
                > > to
                > > > > >have as much money as the Queen of England or Bill Gates for
                > > that
                > > > > >matter. Here in America, individuals speculating in the stock
                > > > > market
                > > > > >can amass wealth and power beyond that of a resource rich
                > > African
                > > > > >country!
                > > > > >I agree that Bongo is a better leader to his country than Bush
                > > or
                > > > > >Blair. His political intelligence seems to be leaps and
                > > bounds
                > > > > >beyond what Bush has to offer for instance. That is why I
                > > think
                > > > > that
                > > > > >he is extremely important for Gabon and for Africa at this
                > > time.
                > > > > >We have seen in America how term limits together with the
                > > > > influence
                > > > > >of special interest in campaign politics has eroded the quality
                > > of
                > > > > >leaders that are put in the positions of power. We are seeing
                > > that
                > > > > it
                > > > > >is the "quality" not quantity that is important when it comes
                > > to
                > > > > >political leadership.
                > > > > >Also, what does it say about the leadership of African states
                > > if
                > > > > it
                > > > > >is so easy for Chinese or any other powerful nation to gain
                > > > > economic
                > > > > >or political control?
                > > > > >So I support President Bongo and hope that his agenda reaches
                > > the
                > > > > >ears of those world leaders in power who truly care about the
                > > > > >development of the African continent. Maybe after the debaucle
                > > in
                > > > > >Liberia, politicians(especially black leaders) here in the
                > > states
                > > > > >will put more effort into understanding what economic
                > > development
                > > > > in
                > > > > >Africa means to world stability.
                > > > > >
                > > > > >
                > > > > >Ciao,
                > > > > >dupont
                > > > > >
                > > > > >
                > > > > >
                > > > > >
                > > > > >On Mon, 18 Aug 2003 02:16:49 -0000 "bobutne" <bobutne@...>
                > > > > writes:
                > > > > >
                > > > > > >
                > > > > > > M'bolo dupont.
                > > > > > >
                > > > > > > President Omar Bongo must share (and, probably, abdicate)
                > > > > > > the "stability to Gabon" mantle with the French (5,000
                > > troops
                > > > > in
                > > > > > > Gabon and a large garrison surrounding/protecting the
                > > > > Presidential
                > > > > > > palace) who have worked to assure that he is kept in power.
                > > The
                > > > > 500
                > > > > > >
                > > > > > > Moroccan Presidential Guard helps, too.
                > > > > > >
                > > > > > > Bush and Blair are actually debasing the US and Britain
                > > world
                > > > > > > hegemony by their unilateral actions. President Omar Bongo
                > > is
                > > > > doing
                > > > > > >
                > > > > > > a better job for Gabon than GWB is doing for the US and
                > > world.
                > > > > > >
                > > > > > > The door to Africa is becoming closed to the West and is
                > > being
                > > > > left
                > > > > > >
                > > > > > > wide open for the Chinese to walk right in to gain economic
                > > and
                > > > > > > political control. I could expound on this for many, many
                > > pages
                > > > > on
                > > > > > > here but will desist for now.
                > > > > > >
                > > > > > >
                > > > > > >
                > > > > > >
                > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
                > > > > > > ---------------------~-->
                > > > > > > Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for Your HP, Epson, Canon
                > > or
                > > > > > > Lexmark
                > > > > > > Printer at Myinks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the
                > > US
                > > > > &
                > > > > > > Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511
                > > > > > > http://us.click.yahoo.com/l.m7sD/LIdGAA/qnsNAA/JWorlB/TM
                > > > > > >
                > > > >
                > > --------------------------------------------------------------------
                > > > > >-~->
                > > > > > >
                > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                > > > > > > gabondiscussion-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                > > > > > >
                > > > > > >
                > > > > > >
                > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                > > > > > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                > > > > > >
                > > > > > >
                > > > > > >
                > > > > > >
                > > > > >
                > > > >
                > > > >
                > > _________________________________________________________________
                > > > > Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*.
                > > > > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail
                > > > >
                > > > >
                > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
                > > > >
                > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                > > > > gabondiscussion-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                > > > >
                > > > >
                > > > >
                > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                > > > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                > > > >
                > > > >
                > > > >
                > > > >
                > >
                > > _________________________________________________________________
                > > <b>Get MSN 8</b> and help protect your children with advanced
                > > parental
                > > controls. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/parental
                > >
                > >
                > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
                > >
                > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                > > gabondiscussion-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >

                _________________________________________________________________
                Get MSN 8 and help protect your children with advanced parental controls.
                http://join.msn.com/?page=features/parental
              • dupont3@juno.com
                Whoever would say that the Gabonese are worse off now than independence must be brainwashed or does not know a damm thing about how it was like to reorganize
                Message 7 of 24 , Aug 21, 2003
                  Whoever would say that the Gabonese are worse off now than independence
                  must be brainwashed or does not know a damm thing about how it was like
                  to reorganize institutions after a being under a colonial power. Also,
                  what a disrespect to all the people who worked hard for an independent
                  and for 40 yrs. stable Gabon.
                  To go on criticizing the government without coming up with any
                  convincing alternative ideas other than conspiracy theories and rumour is
                  with all due respect, disingenuous and insensitive poppycock.

                  Ciao,
                  dupont




                  On Thu, 21 Aug 2003 20:31:32 +0000 "C Yombi" <c_yombi@...>
                  writes:
                  > Obvious point - Bongo has had almost 40 yrs to make a difference and
                  > the
                  > Gabonese are worse off now than at independence - bad track record.
                  > If you
                  > think elections were fair and square then you do not agree with
                  > independent
                  > election observers form around the world. In the end, it is not what
                  > I want
                  > for Gabon - but what the GABONESE want for themselves - my husband
                  > included
                  > who is from Gabon.
                  >
                  >
                  > >From: dupont3@...
                  > >Reply-To: gabondiscussion@yahoogroups.com
                  > >To: gabondiscussion@yahoogroups.com
                  > >Subject: Re: [Gabon Discussion] re: "Bongo on Terrorism"
                  > >Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 12:59:19 -0700
                  > >
                  > >Yes, I have seen how the some Gabonese people live. I have been to
                  > poorly
                  > >supplied hospitals and schools. I have seen what you consider to be
                  > the
                  > >obvious hypocrisy.
                  > >But I know that here in America the lifestyle of many poor people
                  > is no
                  > >different. It is just on a different scale. Most poor people here
                  > in the
                  > >US do not have health insurance. While rich people spend money
                  > lavishly
                  > >in the midst of a lot of pain and suffering. Homeless people abound
                  > on
                  > >the streets and our political system although 2 party,
                  > disenfranchises
                  > >many potentially great opponents. It is like. "been there done
                  > that" when
                  > >you try to focus on that type of stuff when talking about a
                  > nations
                  > >development in a capitalist system. Maybe a socialist system like
                  > in
                  > >Cuba would better achieve what you want in Gabon.
                  > >I think that a healthy dose of idealism is what it takes to jump
                  > start
                  > >any successful capitalist economy. There is nothing wrong with a
                  > healthy
                  > >dose of idealism, in fact, one can argue that idealistic values are
                  > the
                  > >foundations of a healthy democracy. The hard part is getting people
                  > to
                  > >believe in the face of the harsh realities of capitalism.
                  > >Now to say that a majority of people do not support President Bongo
                  > is
                  > >not true. He has won elections fair and square, for all that's
                  > worth
                  > >and beyond that is the most capable person for the job. The man is
                  > a
                  > >national treasure! Why would you want him out?
                  > >If you can not work with leaders like President Bongo then you are
                  > not
                  > >being realistic about facing the challenges of such underdeveloped
                  > >nations in Africa.You might be afraid to deal with the hard issues
                  > and
                  > >instead choose to focus on the stuff that makes good soap opera.
                  > >I say lets look at the big picture when it comes to world poverty.
                  > Step
                  > >back and look at this picture and you will see that the difference
                  > points
                  > >to the policies of the so-called first world nations and not that
                  > of a
                  > >few seemingly wealthy(and well meaning) leaders who are still poor
                  > in
                  > >comparison.
                  > >
                  > >Ciao,
                  > >dupont
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >On Tue, 19 Aug 2003 19:36:16 +0000 "C Yombi" <c_yombi@...>
                  > >writes:
                  > > > With all due respect,
                  > > > You have visited Gabon but have you lived on the people's
                  > level?
                  > > > Have you
                  > > > seen all of the largess that Bongo has spread to only
                  > his"friends"?
                  > > > Have you
                  > > > seen the prisons and the schools? Have you seen all of the
                  > obvious
                  > > > hypocrisy? Do you realize that Bongo only repaired the national
                  > > > train
                  > > > service so he could send his fleet of expensive cars to
                  > Franceville
                  > > > for his
                  > > > annual vacation? How many Gabonese can take a vacation to the
                  > > > capital
                  > > > annually? Any nation that has to rely on Peace Corps to
                  > distribute
                  > > > condoms
                  > > > while trucks get to every corner distributing soft drinks has a
                  > > > problem and
                  > > > it starts with the government.
                  > > >
                  > > > Also, when a majority of the population does not support the
                  > > > president and
                  > > > had little or no voice to change this, is this a great
                  > democracy?
                  > > > Another
                  > > > principle of the United State's founding fathers was freedom of
                  > > > choice. Have
                  > > > you ever heard of Neo-colonialism?
                  > > >
                  > > > How can individuals work toward supporting their governments
                  > and
                  > > > country if
                  > > > the government is taking food out of their mouths and spending
                  > it on
                  > > > lavish
                  > > > trips to Paris? Have you been to rural health clinics where
                  > women
                  > > > struggle
                  > > > to keep their children healthy or talked to primary school
                  > students
                  > > > who have
                  > > > no teachers? May be a less idealistic and more realistic
                  > approach to
                  > > > the
                  > > > reality of one party governments in Africa would be a better
                  > > > approach.
                  > > >
                  > > > Carol
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > > >From: dupont3@...
                  > > > >Reply-To: gabondiscussion@yahoogroups.com
                  > > > >To: gabondiscussion@yahoogroups.com
                  > > > >Subject: Re: [Gabon Discussion] re: "Bongo on Terrorism"
                  > > > >Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2003 10:05:13 -0700
                  > > > >
                  > > > >Well , with all due respect, I think that concentrating on
                  > Bongo's
                  > > > bank
                  > > > >account will get you nowhere.
                  > > > >Ever thought about working with the President to solve some of
                  > the
                  > > > >nations problems?
                  > > > >Here in America we have many of the same problems and this is
                  > the
                  > > > >wealthiest country in the world!
                  > > > >We have an epidemic of homeless people, decaying schools in
                  > inner
                  > > > cities
                  > > > >and a railroad(Amtrak) that cannot get its thing together. We
                  > are
                  > > > >spending 4 Billion dollars a month in Iraq at a time when our
                  > > > schools
                  > > > >need books.
                  > > > >I would also like to ask how is it that having President Bongo
                  > step
                  > > > down
                  > > > >be good for Gabon or change the current situation for the
                  > better?
                  > > > >I have been to Gabon and it seems like the country is dependent
                  > on
                  > > > the
                  > > > >French for many things. If the French were to leave would it
                  > make
                  > > > >anything better? I think not, it would not make anything
                  > better
                  > > > and
                  > > > >getting rid of President Bongo would probably destabilize the
                  > > > country and
                  > > > >the region has the resulting power grab would be like going
                  > back in
                  > > > time.
                  > > > >I think that it is a shame that many Africans seem to think
                  > more
                  > > > about
                  > > > >fighting for power than the issues important for developing
                  > their
                  > > > >country.
                  > > > >It is time to look beyond forced power sharing as a solution.
                  > In
                  > > > Gabon
                  > > > >each citizen must first make an effort to support the state.
                  > Only
                  > > > then
                  > > > >will you find the necessary energy to tackle major issues.The
                  > > > founding
                  > > > >fathers of the US went by a decree "United We Stand Divided We
                  > > > Fall"
                  > > > >Every nation that aspires to economic success must first find
                  > a
                  > > > common
                  > > > >ground to stand on.
                  > > > >The Gabonese are a beautiful and special people and sure, there
                  > are
                  > > > many
                  > > > >who disagree with the President. But there are also many who
                  > do
                  > > > not
                  > > > >understand what a great leader that they have in Bongo. Many
                  > who do
                  > > > not
                  > > > >understand the complete geopolitical challenge that not only
                  > > > Africans,
                  > > > >but most 3rd world nations face when trying to develop their
                  > > > economies in
                  > > > >this new world order.
                  > > > >Lets discuss bold new ideas and initiatives that can help the
                  > > > President
                  > > > >lead Gabon into the 21st century.
                  > > > >I love the famous quote in President John F Kennedy's
                  > inauguration
                  > > > speech
                  > > > >when he said, "ask not what your country can do for you, but
                  > what
                  > > > you can
                  > > > >do for your country."
                  > > > >Yes, those are just words, but words, if understood correctly,
                  > can
                  > > > >inspire man to great heights.
                  > > > >
                  > > > >ciao,
                  > > > >dupont
                  > > > >
                  > > > >
                  > > > >
                  > > > >
                  > > > >
                  > > > >On Mon, 18 Aug 2003 20:46:21 +0000 "C Yombi"
                  > <c_yombi@...>
                  > > > >writes:
                  > > > > > After having lived in a small town - Leconi - with a "Bongo
                  > > > house"
                  > > > > > while my
                  > > > > > neighbors could hardly afford to send their children to
                  > school
                  > > > and
                  > > > > > riding on
                  > > > > > the trans-gabonese railway wondering if we were going to end
                  > up
                  > > > in
                  > > > > > the water
                  > > > > > because of track neglect, I tend to think words are just
                  > that -
                  > > > > > words. Don't
                  > > > > > forget that Bongo is bankrolled by the French government in
                  > > > order to
                  > > > > > have
                  > > > > > control over Gabon's dwendling oil wealth. Look at Bongo's
                  > bank
                  > > > > > accounts and
                  > > > > > then at the decaying state of Bongo University in LBV. If
                  > Bongo
                  > > > is
                  > > > > > such a
                  > > > > > good leader, why did he feel the need to renig on his
                  > promise
                  > > > to
                  > > > > > step down
                  > > > > > in 2005 by ammending the constitution to rule forever? Ask
                  > many
                  > > > > > Gabonese and
                  > > > > > they would vhemently disagree with you.
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > > >From: "dupont6" <dupont3@...>
                  > > > > > >Reply-To: gabondiscussion@yahoogroups.com
                  > > > > > >To: gabondiscussion@yahoogroups.com
                  > > > > > >Subject: [Gabon Discussion] re: "Bongo on Terrorism"
                  > > > > > >Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2003 17:51:43 -0000
                  > > > > > >
                  > > > > > >Hello:
                  > > > > > >I think that stability in any country in Africa depends
                  > more
                  > > > on
                  > > > > > just
                  > > > > > >military troops and Presidential guards. Of course all
                  > leaders
                  > > > of
                  > > > > > >states have serious amounts of protection, but does that
                  > > > "keep"
                  > > > > > them
                  > > > > > >in power? I am more interested in what Bongo has to say
                  > about
                  > > > the
                  > > > > > >political challenges Africans have to face. I think that it
                  > is
                  > > > > > >important to focus now on economic development and aid for
                  > > > African
                  > > > > > >countries. I like what Bongo has to say about how the
                  > marketing
                  > > > of
                  > > > > > >resources coming out of most African states are not
                  > controlled
                  > > > by
                  > > > > > the
                  > > > > > >states themselves but by external entities.
                  > > > > > >For example, it is important to develop the infrastructure
                  > > > where
                  > > > > > oil
                  > > > > > >producing states are actually refining the oil that is
                  > > > produced.
                  > > > > > Or
                  > > > > > >where companies marketing the by-products of resources
                  > like
                  > > > > > timber,
                  > > > > > >gold and diamonds are actually based and run by Africans
                  > native
                  > > > to
                  > > > > > >the region where they are produced. These things are more
                  > > > > > important
                  > > > > > >to the development of peoples lives than who is in
                  > political
                  > > > > > control
                  > > > > > >or what politician has the most money stashed away. I
                  > think
                  > > > > > arguably
                  > > > > > >that an intelligent and capable African head of state
                  > deserves
                  > > > to
                  > > > > > >have as much money as the Queen of England or Bill Gates
                  > for
                  > > > that
                  > > > > > >matter. Here in America, individuals speculating in the
                  > stock
                  > > > > > market
                  > > > > > >can amass wealth and power beyond that of a resource rich
                  > > > African
                  > > > > > >country!
                  > > > > > >I agree that Bongo is a better leader to his country than
                  > Bush
                  > > > or
                  > > > > > >Blair. His political intelligence seems to be leaps and
                  > > > bounds
                  > > > > > >beyond what Bush has to offer for instance. That is why I
                  > > > think
                  > > > > > that
                  > > > > > >he is extremely important for Gabon and for Africa at this
                  > > > time.
                  > > > > > >We have seen in America how term limits together with the
                  > > > > > influence
                  > > > > > >of special interest in campaign politics has eroded the
                  > quality
                  > > > of
                  > > > > > >leaders that are put in the positions of power. We are
                  > seeing
                  > > > that
                  > > > > > it
                  > > > > > >is the "quality" not quantity that is important when it
                  > comes
                  > > > to
                  > > > > > >political leadership.
                  > > > > > >Also, what does it say about the leadership of African
                  > states
                  > > > if
                  > > > > > it
                  > > > > > >is so easy for Chinese or any other powerful nation to
                  > gain
                  > > > > > economic
                  > > > > > >or political control?
                  > > > > > >So I support President Bongo and hope that his agenda
                  > reaches
                  > > > the
                  > > > > > >ears of those world leaders in power who truly care about
                  > the
                  > > > > > >development of the African continent. Maybe after the
                  > debaucle
                  > > > in
                  > > > > > >Liberia, politicians(especially black leaders) here in the
                  > > > states
                  > > > > > >will put more effort into understanding what economic
                  > > > development
                  > > > > > in
                  > > > > > >Africa means to world stability.
                  > > > > > >
                  > > > > > >
                  > > > > > >Ciao,
                  > > > > > >dupont
                  > > > > > >
                  > > > > > >
                  > > > > > >
                  > > > > > >
                  > > > > > >On Mon, 18 Aug 2003 02:16:49 -0000 "bobutne"
                  > <bobutne@...>
                  > > > > > writes:
                  > > > > > >
                  > > > > > > >
                  > > > > > > > M'bolo dupont.
                  > > > > > > >
                  > > > > > > > President Omar Bongo must share (and, probably,
                  > abdicate)
                  > > > > > > > the "stability to Gabon" mantle with the French (5,000
                  > > > troops
                  > > > > > in
                  > > > > > > > Gabon and a large garrison surrounding/protecting the
                  > > > > > Presidential
                  > > > > > > > palace) who have worked to assure that he is kept in
                  > power.
                  > > > The
                  > > > > > 500
                  > > > > > > >
                  > > > > > > > Moroccan Presidential Guard helps, too.
                  > > > > > > >
                  > > > > > > > Bush and Blair are actually debasing the US and Britain
                  > > > world
                  > > > > > > > hegemony by their unilateral actions. President Omar
                  > Bongo
                  > > > is
                  > > > > > doing
                  > > > > > > >
                  > > > > > > > a better job for Gabon than GWB is doing for the US and
                  > > > world.
                  > > > > > > >
                  > > > > > > > The door to Africa is becoming closed to the West and
                  > is
                  > > > being
                  > > > > > left
                  > > > > > > >
                  > > > > > > > wide open for the Chinese to walk right in to gain
                  > economic
                  > > > and
                  > > > > > > > political control. I could expound on this for many,
                  > many
                  > > > pages
                  > > > > > on
                  > > > > > > > here but will desist for now.
                  > > > > > > >
                  > > > > > > >
                  > > > > > > >
                  > > > > > > >
                  > > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
                  > > > > > > > ---------------------~-->
                  > > > > > > > Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for Your HP, Epson,
                  > Canon
                  > > > or
                  > > > > > > > Lexmark
                  > > > > > > > Printer at Myinks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to
                  > the
                  > > > US
                  > > > > > &
                  > > > > > > > Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511
                  > > > > > > >
                  > http://us.click.yahoo.com/l.m7sD/LIdGAA/qnsNAA/JWorlB/TM
                  > > > > > > >
                  > > > > >
                  > > >
                  > --------------------------------------------------------------------
                  > > > > > >-~->
                  > > > > > > >
                  > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                  > > > > > > > gabondiscussion-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                  > > > > > > >
                  > > > > > > >
                  > > > > > > >
                  > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                  > > > > > > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                  > > > > > > >
                  > > > > > > >
                  > > > > > > >
                  > > > > > > >
                  > > > > > >
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > >
                  > > >
                  > _________________________________________________________________
                  > > > > > Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*.
                  > > > > > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                  > > > > > gabondiscussion-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                  > > > > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > _________________________________________________________________
                  > > > <b>Get MSN 8</b> and help protect your children with advanced
                  > > > parental
                  > > > controls. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/parental
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
                  > > >
                  > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                  > > > gabondiscussion-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                  > > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  >
                  > _________________________________________________________________
                  > Get MSN 8 and help protect your children with advanced parental
                  > controls.
                  > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/parental
                  >
                  >
                  > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
                  >
                  > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                  > gabondiscussion-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                  > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >

                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • C Yombi
                  May be it s just you who is brainwashed... Or may be people like the UN are just making it all up..... Vol 43 Number 25 - 20 December 2002 Hear those drums For
                  Message 8 of 24 , Aug 22, 2003
                    May be it's just you who is brainwashed... Or may be people like the UN are
                    just making it all up.....


                    Vol 43 Number 25 - 20 December 2002

                    Hear those drums

                    For want of opposition, President Bongo can plan to rule until 2012
                    After three decades at the head of one of Africa's worst managed and most
                    corrupt oil economies, President Omar Bongo might well expect some political
                    trouble. Quite the opposite. His ruling Parti D�mocratique Gabonais (PDG)
                    will sweep the board in the local elections on 29 December and Bongo (health
                    permitting) could win yet another seven-year presidential term in the
                    election due in 2005. The oppositionists of the early 1990s have been
                    exiled, crushed or coopted.

                    Gabonese have lost interest in the perennially rigged elections. Turnout at
                    the legislative polls last December was under 20 per cent and may be lower
                    still in the local polls. Electoral registers have been doctored down to
                    523,000: there were 775,000 names on the lists for the 2001 elections. Many
                    nominal political opponents are in Bongo's pay, the rest are divided and
                    lack national support. For wealthy Gabonese, elections are a patronage
                    competition which shares out jobs and resources from 250,000 barrels of oil
                    a day, plus smaller timber and manganese exports.



                    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

                    Vol 42 Number 16 - 10 August 2001

                    Hey big spender

                    The fuss over how President El Hadj Omar Bongo came to deposit over US$180
                    million in three private Citibank accounts in New York won't go away. First
                    raised in United States Senate hearings in November 1999, it is now the
                    subject of an embarrassing law suit against Bongo in the US Federal Court,
                    Washington. Bongo's lawyers are trying to establish diplomatic immunity for
                    him as a serving head of a state recognised by the US government. And with
                    another US legal suit from a scrap metal company pending, Bongo's
                    big-spending habits Stateside � he bought four Boeing passenger jets in June
                    � won't win him any respite from his legal adversaries there.


                    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------



                    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

                    Vol 40 Number 22 - 05 November 1999

                    Digging deeper holes

                    A massive hole in Gabon's public finances - some say of more than US$350
                    million - is at the heart of its growing financial and political crisis. By
                    the end of last year, arrears to foreign creditors were estimated at 160
                    billion CFA francs ($256.4 mn.) - and have probably doubled this year.
                    President Omar Bongo's government also has arrears of CFA 100 bn. to local
                    banks. With an oil-fired GNP per head of $4,000, Gabon is one of Africa's
                    wealthiest states. Yet most people live in poverty and a damning new report
                    from the United Nations Development Programme says social services are
                    collapsing. Tracing the missing $350 mn. preoccupies both foreign creditors
                    and Gabonese who worry about government corruption and mismanagement. And
                    President Bongo is no longer able to rely on Paris nor Washington to block
                    exposure of murky areas in his government. He tried everything, including a
                    personal call to French President Jacques Chirac, to stifle the inquiry by
                    magistrate Eva Joly into Elf-Aquitaine's unorthodox financing operations.

                    This focussed on Bongo's relationship with Andr� Tarallo, Elf-Gabon's
                    disgraced and ousted Pr�sident-Directeur G�n�ral. Late last month, Joly's
                    inquiries moved on when a Swiss magistrate, Paul Parraudin, produced bank
                    records showing that over 600 mn. French francs ($97 mn.) had been
                    channelled through Tarallo's Swiss account from the Gabonese presidency.
                    Back home, after a year of strikes, demonstrations and the payments crisis,
                    Bongo's government needs a new deal with the International Monetary Fund.
                    Last year, the Fund suspended its Extended Financing Facility for several
                    reasons, including 'lack of transparency in public finance' (Fundspeak for
                    corruption). Libreville's negotiating team is led by respected Finance
                    Minister Emile Doumba, who has been trying, with limited success, to
                    persuade his ministerial colleagues and the presidency to implement an
                    IMF-inspired austerity programme.

                    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------Freedom
                    in the World 1998-99: Gabon
                    Freedom House Survey 1999
                    Economy: Capitalist (highly corrupt)
                    Population: 1,200,000
                    PPP: $3,766
                    Life Expectancy: 54
                    Ethnic Groups: Fang, Eshira, Bapounou, Bateke, other Bantu, other Africans,
                    Europeans
                    Polity: Dominant party
                    Capital: Libreville
                    Political Rights: 5
                    Civil Liberties: 4
                    Status: Partly Free



                    Overview
                    In December, President Omar Bongo was returned to office for a seven-year
                    term. The polling, which was partially boycotted by the opposition, was
                    marked by serious irregularities. The nominally independent National
                    Election Commission, which was created under the new constitution approved
                    by referendum in 1995, proved neither autonomous nor competent. Behind a
                    facade of democratic institutions, Bongo used patronage, manipulation, and
                    intimidation to retain power. In Libreville in May, student riots prompted
                    by deteriorating economic conditions were quickly suppressed. At least ten
                    students were seriously hurt. Three decades of autocratic rule have made
                    Bongo among the world's richest men and left the vast majority of oil-rich
                    Gabon's 1.4 million people mired in poverty. Bongo is strongly backed by the
                    army and by France. The highly profitable French ELF oil company plays a
                    dominant role in the country's economic and political life.

                    Straddling the equator on central Africa's west coast, Gabon gained
                    independence from France in 1960. Bongo, whom France raised from soldier to
                    president in 1967, completed his predecessor's consolidation of power by
                    officially outlawing the opposition. France, which maintains 600 marines in
                    Gabon, has intervened twice to preserve Bongo's regime. In 1990, protests
                    prompted by economic duress forced Bongo to accept a conference that
                    opposition leaders hoped would promote a peaceful democratic transition.
                    Bongo retained power, however, in rigged 1993 elections that sparked violent
                    protests and repression led by his Presidential Guard. The 1994 Paris
                    Accords claimed to institute true democratic reforms. Municipal elections in
                    1996 saw major opposition gains, including the election of Paul Mba
                    Abbesole, the leader of the largest opposition party, as mayor of
                    Libreville. Legislative polls delayed by decree until December 1996 were
                    again beset by fraud as Bongo's Gabon Democratic Party won an overwhelming,
                    but unconvincing victory.

                    Political Rights and Civil Liberties
                    Despite a gradual political opening since 1990, Gabon's citizens have never
                    been able to exercise their constitutional right to change their government
                    democratically. Bongo's 1998 electoral victory with 61 percent of the vote
                    followed a campaign that made profligate use of state resources and state
                    media to promote his incumbency. Legislative elections have also been
                    seriously flawed.

                    State institutions are influenced or controlled by Bongo and a small elite
                    around him. The judiciary suffers from political interference. Rights to
                    legal counsel and public criminal trials are generally respected, but the
                    law presumes guilt. Judges may deliver summary verdicts, and torture remains
                    a standard route to produce confessions. Prison conditions are marked by
                    beatings and insufficient food, water, and medical care. The government
                    often detains refugees without charge, and there are reports of forced labor
                    by detainees. Rights of assembly and association are constitutionally
                    guaranteed, but permits required for public gatherings are sometimes
                    refused. Freedom to form and join political parties is generally respected,
                    but civil servants may face harassment based on their associations.
                    Nongovernmental organizations operate openly, although the Gabonese League
                    of Human Rights has reported threats and harassment.

                    A government daily and approximately one dozen private weeklies, which are
                    primarily controlled by opposition parties, are published. The government
                    overwhelmingly dominates the broadcast media, which reach a far larger
                    audience. Only a few private broadcasters have been licensed, and their
                    viability is tenuous. A 1998 crackdown on private media has raised serious
                    concerns for free expression. In February, Radio Soleil, which was
                    associated with the main Bucherons opposition party, was closed. In January,
                    a cartoonist was sentenced to six months imprisonment for lampooning Bongo.
                    Publication of his newspaper was suspended for one month. The president of
                    the journalists' union was jailed for eight months. In August, the
                    opposition newspaper La Griffe was closed, and three of its staff received
                    eight-month suspended sentences after publishing allegations of ivory
                    smuggling by the national airline. Soldiers raided La Griffe offices and
                    seized equipment. Foreign newspapers, magazines, and broadcasts are usually
                    widely available, but editions criticizing Bongo have been seized.

                    Most of the small formal sector work force is unionized, although unions
                    must register with the government in order to be officially recognized.
                    Despite legal protections, the government has taken action against numerous
                    strikers and unions and used force to suppress illegal demonstrations. While
                    no legal restrictions on travel exist, harassment on political and ethnic
                    bases has been reported. Religious freedom is constitutionally guaranteed
                    and respected. An official ban on Jehovah's Witnesses is not enforced.

                    Legal protections for women include equal access laws for education,
                    business, and investment. In addition to owning property and businesses,
                    women constitute more than 50 percent of the salaried workforce in the
                    health and trade sectors. At the same time, there are only six women in the
                    120-member National Assembly and one woman in the cabinet. Women continue to
                    face legal and cultural discrimination, particularly in rural areas, and are
                    reportedly subject to widespread domestic violence.

                    Little wealth from Gabon's oil revenues reaches the broad populace, most of
                    which is engaged in subsistence farming. Corruption is endemic.




                    >From: dupont3@...
                    >Reply-To: gabondiscussion@yahoogroups.com
                    >To: gabondiscussion@yahoogroups.com
                    >Subject: Re: [Gabon Discussion] re: "Bongo on Terrorism"
                    >Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2003 20:18:18 -0700
                    >
                    >Whoever would say that the Gabonese are worse off now than independence
                    >must be brainwashed or does not know a damm thing about how it was like
                    >to reorganize institutions after a being under a colonial power. Also,
                    >what a disrespect to all the people who worked hard for an independent
                    >and for 40 yrs. stable Gabon.
                    >To go on criticizing the government without coming up with any
                    >convincing alternative ideas other than conspiracy theories and rumour is
                    >with all due respect, disingenuous and insensitive poppycock.
                    >
                    >Ciao,
                    >dupont
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >On Thu, 21 Aug 2003 20:31:32 +0000 "C Yombi" <c_yombi@...>
                    >writes:
                    > > Obvious point - Bongo has had almost 40 yrs to make a difference and
                    > > the
                    > > Gabonese are worse off now than at independence - bad track record.
                    > > If you
                    > > think elections were fair and square then you do not agree with
                    > > independent
                    > > election observers form around the world. In the end, it is not what
                    > > I want
                    > > for Gabon - but what the GABONESE want for themselves - my husband
                    > > included
                    > > who is from Gabon.
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > >From: dupont3@...
                    > > >Reply-To: gabondiscussion@yahoogroups.com
                    > > >To: gabondiscussion@yahoogroups.com
                    > > >Subject: Re: [Gabon Discussion] re: "Bongo on Terrorism"
                    > > >Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 12:59:19 -0700
                    > > >
                    > > >Yes, I have seen how the some Gabonese people live. I have been to
                    > > poorly
                    > > >supplied hospitals and schools. I have seen what you consider to be
                    > > the
                    > > >obvious hypocrisy.
                    > > >But I know that here in America the lifestyle of many poor people
                    > > is no
                    > > >different. It is just on a different scale. Most poor people here
                    > > in the
                    > > >US do not have health insurance. While rich people spend money
                    > > lavishly
                    > > >in the midst of a lot of pain and suffering. Homeless people abound
                    > > on
                    > > >the streets and our political system although 2 party,
                    > > disenfranchises
                    > > >many potentially great opponents. It is like. "been there done
                    > > that" when
                    > > >you try to focus on that type of stuff when talking about a
                    > > nations
                    > > >development in a capitalist system. Maybe a socialist system like
                    > > in
                    > > >Cuba would better achieve what you want in Gabon.
                    > > >I think that a healthy dose of idealism is what it takes to jump
                    > > start
                    > > >any successful capitalist economy. There is nothing wrong with a
                    > > healthy
                    > > >dose of idealism, in fact, one can argue that idealistic values are
                    > > the
                    > > >foundations of a healthy democracy. The hard part is getting people
                    > > to
                    > > >believe in the face of the harsh realities of capitalism.
                    > > >Now to say that a majority of people do not support President Bongo
                    > > is
                    > > >not true. He has won elections fair and square, for all that's
                    > > worth
                    > > >and beyond that is the most capable person for the job. The man is
                    > > a
                    > > >national treasure! Why would you want him out?
                    > > >If you can not work with leaders like President Bongo then you are
                    > > not
                    > > >being realistic about facing the challenges of such underdeveloped
                    > > >nations in Africa.You might be afraid to deal with the hard issues
                    > > and
                    > > >instead choose to focus on the stuff that makes good soap opera.
                    > > >I say lets look at the big picture when it comes to world poverty.
                    > > Step
                    > > >back and look at this picture and you will see that the difference
                    > > points
                    > > >to the policies of the so-called first world nations and not that
                    > > of a
                    > > >few seemingly wealthy(and well meaning) leaders who are still poor
                    > > in
                    > > >comparison.
                    > > >
                    > > >Ciao,
                    > > >dupont
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >On Tue, 19 Aug 2003 19:36:16 +0000 "C Yombi" <c_yombi@...>
                    > > >writes:
                    > > > > With all due respect,
                    > > > > You have visited Gabon but have you lived on the people's
                    > > level?
                    > > > > Have you
                    > > > > seen all of the largess that Bongo has spread to only
                    > > his"friends"?
                    > > > > Have you
                    > > > > seen the prisons and the schools? Have you seen all of the
                    > > obvious
                    > > > > hypocrisy? Do you realize that Bongo only repaired the national
                    > > > > train
                    > > > > service so he could send his fleet of expensive cars to
                    > > Franceville
                    > > > > for his
                    > > > > annual vacation? How many Gabonese can take a vacation to the
                    > > > > capital
                    > > > > annually? Any nation that has to rely on Peace Corps to
                    > > distribute
                    > > > > condoms
                    > > > > while trucks get to every corner distributing soft drinks has a
                    > > > > problem and
                    > > > > it starts with the government.
                    > > > >
                    > > > > Also, when a majority of the population does not support the
                    > > > > president and
                    > > > > had little or no voice to change this, is this a great
                    > > democracy?
                    > > > > Another
                    > > > > principle of the United State's founding fathers was freedom of
                    > > > > choice. Have
                    > > > > you ever heard of Neo-colonialism?
                    > > > >
                    > > > > How can individuals work toward supporting their governments
                    > > and
                    > > > > country if
                    > > > > the government is taking food out of their mouths and spending
                    > > it on
                    > > > > lavish
                    > > > > trips to Paris? Have you been to rural health clinics where
                    > > women
                    > > > > struggle
                    > > > > to keep their children healthy or talked to primary school
                    > > students
                    > > > > who have
                    > > > > no teachers? May be a less idealistic and more realistic
                    > > approach to
                    > > > > the
                    > > > > reality of one party governments in Africa would be a better
                    > > > > approach.
                    > > > >
                    > > > > Carol
                    > > > >
                    > > > >
                    > > > >
                    > > > > >From: dupont3@...
                    > > > > >Reply-To: gabondiscussion@yahoogroups.com
                    > > > > >To: gabondiscussion@yahoogroups.com
                    > > > > >Subject: Re: [Gabon Discussion] re: "Bongo on Terrorism"
                    > > > > >Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2003 10:05:13 -0700
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > >Well , with all due respect, I think that concentrating on
                    > > Bongo's
                    > > > > bank
                    > > > > >account will get you nowhere.
                    > > > > >Ever thought about working with the President to solve some of
                    > > the
                    > > > > >nations problems?
                    > > > > >Here in America we have many of the same problems and this is
                    > > the
                    > > > > >wealthiest country in the world!
                    > > > > >We have an epidemic of homeless people, decaying schools in
                    > > inner
                    > > > > cities
                    > > > > >and a railroad(Amtrak) that cannot get its thing together. We
                    > > are
                    > > > > >spending 4 Billion dollars a month in Iraq at a time when our
                    > > > > schools
                    > > > > >need books.
                    > > > > >I would also like to ask how is it that having President Bongo
                    > > step
                    > > > > down
                    > > > > >be good for Gabon or change the current situation for the
                    > > better?
                    > > > > >I have been to Gabon and it seems like the country is dependent
                    > > on
                    > > > > the
                    > > > > >French for many things. If the French were to leave would it
                    > > make
                    > > > > >anything better? I think not, it would not make anything
                    > > better
                    > > > > and
                    > > > > >getting rid of President Bongo would probably destabilize the
                    > > > > country and
                    > > > > >the region has the resulting power grab would be like going
                    > > back in
                    > > > > time.
                    > > > > >I think that it is a shame that many Africans seem to think
                    > > more
                    > > > > about
                    > > > > >fighting for power than the issues important for developing
                    > > their
                    > > > > >country.
                    > > > > >It is time to look beyond forced power sharing as a solution.
                    > > In
                    > > > > Gabon
                    > > > > >each citizen must first make an effort to support the state.
                    > > Only
                    > > > > then
                    > > > > >will you find the necessary energy to tackle major issues.The
                    > > > > founding
                    > > > > >fathers of the US went by a decree "United We Stand Divided We
                    > > > > Fall"
                    > > > > >Every nation that aspires to economic success must first find
                    > > a
                    > > > > common
                    > > > > >ground to stand on.
                    > > > > >The Gabonese are a beautiful and special people and sure, there
                    > > are
                    > > > > many
                    > > > > >who disagree with the President. But there are also many who
                    > > do
                    > > > > not
                    > > > > >understand what a great leader that they have in Bongo. Many
                    > > who do
                    > > > > not
                    > > > > >understand the complete geopolitical challenge that not only
                    > > > > Africans,
                    > > > > >but most 3rd world nations face when trying to develop their
                    > > > > economies in
                    > > > > >this new world order.
                    > > > > >Lets discuss bold new ideas and initiatives that can help the
                    > > > > President
                    > > > > >lead Gabon into the 21st century.
                    > > > > >I love the famous quote in President John F Kennedy's
                    > > inauguration
                    > > > > speech
                    > > > > >when he said, "ask not what your country can do for you, but
                    > > what
                    > > > > you can
                    > > > > >do for your country."
                    > > > > >Yes, those are just words, but words, if understood correctly,
                    > > can
                    > > > > >inspire man to great heights.
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > >ciao,
                    > > > > >dupont
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > >On Mon, 18 Aug 2003 20:46:21 +0000 "C Yombi"
                    > > <c_yombi@...>
                    > > > > >writes:
                    > > > > > > After having lived in a small town - Leconi - with a "Bongo
                    > > > > house"
                    > > > > > > while my
                    > > > > > > neighbors could hardly afford to send their children to
                    > > school
                    > > > > and
                    > > > > > > riding on
                    > > > > > > the trans-gabonese railway wondering if we were going to end
                    > > up
                    > > > > in
                    > > > > > > the water
                    > > > > > > because of track neglect, I tend to think words are just
                    > > that -
                    > > > > > > words. Don't
                    > > > > > > forget that Bongo is bankrolled by the French government in
                    > > > > order to
                    > > > > > > have
                    > > > > > > control over Gabon's dwendling oil wealth. Look at Bongo's
                    > > bank
                    > > > > > > accounts and
                    > > > > > > then at the decaying state of Bongo University in LBV. If
                    > > Bongo
                    > > > > is
                    > > > > > > such a
                    > > > > > > good leader, why did he feel the need to renig on his
                    > > promise
                    > > > > to
                    > > > > > > step down
                    > > > > > > in 2005 by ammending the constitution to rule forever? Ask
                    > > many
                    > > > > > > Gabonese and
                    > > > > > > they would vhemently disagree with you.
                    > > > > > >
                    > > > > > >
                    > > > > > > >From: "dupont6" <dupont3@...>
                    > > > > > > >Reply-To: gabondiscussion@yahoogroups.com
                    > > > > > > >To: gabondiscussion@yahoogroups.com
                    > > > > > > >Subject: [Gabon Discussion] re: "Bongo on Terrorism"
                    > > > > > > >Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2003 17:51:43 -0000
                    > > > > > > >
                    > > > > > > >Hello:
                    > > > > > > >I think that stability in any country in Africa depends
                    > > more
                    > > > > on
                    > > > > > > just
                    > > > > > > >military troops and Presidential guards. Of course all
                    > > leaders
                    > > > > of
                    > > > > > > >states have serious amounts of protection, but does that
                    > > > > "keep"
                    > > > > > > them
                    > > > > > > >in power? I am more interested in what Bongo has to say
                    > > about
                    > > > > the
                    > > > > > > >political challenges Africans have to face. I think that it
                    > > is
                    > > > > > > >important to focus now on economic development and aid for
                    > > > > African
                    > > > > > > >countries. I like what Bongo has to say about how the
                    > > marketing
                    > > > > of
                    > > > > > > >resources coming out of most African states are not
                    > > controlled
                    > > > > by
                    > > > > > > the
                    > > > > > > >states themselves but by external entities.
                    > > > > > > >For example, it is important to develop the infrastructure
                    > > > > where
                    > > > > > > oil
                    > > > > > > >producing states are actually refining the oil that is
                    > > > > produced.
                    > > > > > > Or
                    > > > > > > >where companies marketing the by-products of resources
                    > > like
                    > > > > > > timber,
                    > > > > > > >gold and diamonds are actually based and run by Africans
                    > > native
                    > > > > to
                    > > > > > > >the region where they are produced. These things are more
                    > > > > > > important
                    > > > > > > >to the development of peoples lives than who is in
                    > > political
                    > > > > > > control
                    > > > > > > >or what politician has the most money stashed away. I
                    > > think
                    > > > > > > arguably
                    > > > > > > >that an intelligent and capable African head of state
                    > > deserves
                    > > > > to
                    > > > > > > >have as much money as the Queen of England or Bill Gates
                    > > for
                    > > > > that
                    > > > > > > >matter. Here in America, individuals speculating in the
                    > > stock
                    > > > > > > market
                    > > > > > > >can amass wealth and power beyond that of a resource rich
                    > > > > African
                    > > > > > > >country!
                    > > > > > > >I agree that Bongo is a better leader to his country than
                    > > Bush
                    > > > > or
                    > > > > > > >Blair. His political intelligence seems to be leaps and
                    > > > > bounds
                    > > > > > > >beyond what Bush has to offer for instance. That is why I
                    > > > > think
                    > > > > > > that
                    > > > > > > >he is extremely important for Gabon and for Africa at this
                    > > > > time.
                    > > > > > > >We have seen in America how term limits together with the
                    > > > > > > influence
                    > > > > > > >of special interest in campaign politics has eroded the
                    > > quality
                    > > > > of
                    > > > > > > >leaders that are put in the positions of power. We are
                    > > seeing
                    > > > > that
                    > > > > > > it
                    > > > > > > >is the "quality" not quantity that is important when it
                    > > comes
                    > > > > to
                    > > > > > > >political leadership.
                    > > > > > > >Also, what does it say about the leadership of African
                    > > states
                    > > > > if
                    > > > > > > it
                    > > > > > > >is so easy for Chinese or any other powerful nation to
                    > > gain
                    > > > > > > economic
                    > > > > > > >or political control?
                    > > > > > > >So I support President Bongo and hope that his agenda
                    > > reaches
                    > > > > the
                    > > > > > > >ears of those world leaders in power who truly care about
                    > > the
                    > > > > > > >development of the African continent. Maybe after the
                    > > debaucle
                    > > > > in
                    > > > > > > >Liberia, politicians(especially black leaders) here in the
                    > > > > states
                    > > > > > > >will put more effort into understanding what economic
                    > > > > development
                    > > > > > > in
                    > > > > > > >Africa means to world stability.
                    > > > > > > >
                    > > > > > > >
                    > > > > > > >Ciao,
                    > > > > > > >dupont
                    > > > > > > >
                    > > > > > > >
                    > > > > > > >
                    > > > > > > >
                    > > > > > > >On Mon, 18 Aug 2003 02:16:49 -0000 "bobutne"
                    > > <bobutne@...>
                    > > > > > > writes:
                    > > > > > > >
                    > > > > > > > >
                    > > > > > > > > M'bolo dupont.
                    > > > > > > > >
                    > > > > > > > > President Omar Bongo must share (and, probably,
                    > > abdicate)
                    > > > > > > > > the "stability to Gabon" mantle with the French (5,000
                    > > > > troops
                    > > > > > > in
                    > > > > > > > > Gabon and a large garrison surrounding/protecting the
                    > > > > > > Presidential
                    > > > > > > > > palace) who have worked to assure that he is kept in
                    > > power.
                    > > > > The
                    > > > > > > 500
                    > > > > > > > >
                    > > > > > > > > Moroccan Presidential Guard helps, too.
                    > > > > > > > >
                    > > > > > > > > Bush and Blair are actually debasing the US and Britain
                    > > > > world
                    > > > > > > > > hegemony by their unilateral actions. President Omar
                    > > Bongo
                    > > > > is
                    > > > > > > doing
                    > > > > > > > >
                    > > > > > > > > a better job for Gabon than GWB is doing for the US and
                    > > > > world.
                    > > > > > > > >
                    > > > > > > > > The door to Africa is becoming closed to the West and
                    > > is
                    > > > > being
                    > > > > > > left
                    > > > > > > > >
                    > > > > > > > > wide open for the Chinese to walk right in to gain
                    > > economic
                    > > > > and
                    > > > > > > > > political control. I could expound on this for many,
                    > > many
                    > > > > pages
                    > > > > > > on
                    > > > > > > > > here but will desist for now.
                    > > > > > > > >
                    > > > > > > > >
                    > > > > > > > >
                    > > > > > > > >
                    > > > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
                    > > > > > > > > ---------------------~-->
                    > > > > > > > > Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for Your HP, Epson,
                    > > Canon
                    > > > > or
                    > > > > > > > > Lexmark
                    > > > > > > > > Printer at Myinks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to
                    > > the
                    > > > > US
                    > > > > > > &
                    > > > > > > > > Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511
                    > > > > > > > >
                    > > http://us.click.yahoo.com/l.m7sD/LIdGAA/qnsNAA/JWorlB/TM
                    > > > > > > > >
                    > > > > > >
                    > > > >
                    > > --------------------------------------------------------------------
                    > > > > > > >-~->
                    > > > > > > > >
                    > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                    > > > > > > > > gabondiscussion-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                    > > > > > > > >
                    > > > > > > > >
                    > > > > > > > >
                    > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                    > > > > > > > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                    > > > > > > > >
                    > > > > > > > >
                    > > > > > > > >
                    > > > > > > > >
                    > > > > > > >
                    > > > > > >
                    > > > > > >
                    > > > >
                    > > _________________________________________________________________
                    > > > > > > Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*.
                    > > > > > > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail
                    > > > > > >
                    > > > > > >
                    > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
                    > > > > > >
                    > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                    > > > > > > gabondiscussion-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                    > > > > > >
                    > > > > > >
                    > > > > > >
                    > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                    > > > > > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                    > > > > > >
                    > > > > > >
                    > > > > > >
                    > > > > > >
                    > > > >
                    > > > >
                    > > _________________________________________________________________
                    > > > > <b>Get MSN 8</b> and help protect your children with advanced
                    > > > > parental
                    > > > > controls. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/parental
                    > > > >
                    > > > >
                    > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
                    > > > >
                    > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                    > > > > gabondiscussion-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                    > > > >
                    > > > >
                    > > > >
                    > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                    > > > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                    > > > >
                    > > > >
                    > > > >
                    > > > >
                    > >
                    > > _________________________________________________________________
                    > > Get MSN 8 and help protect your children with advanced parental
                    > > controls.
                    > > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/parental
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
                    > >
                    > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                    > > gabondiscussion-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                    > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    >
                    >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    >

                    _________________________________________________________________
                    Get MSN 8 and enjoy automatic e-mail virus protection.
                    http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus
                  • bobutne
                    Bakouma - Gabon is turning a former industrial facility - a gigantic 76km cableway that once carried manganese ore to Atlantic ports for export to world
                    Message 9 of 24 , Aug 23, 2003
                      Bakouma - Gabon is turning a former industrial facility - a gigantic
                      76km cableway that once carried manganese ore to Atlantic ports for
                      export to world markets - into Africa's most unusual nature reserve.

                      The Lekedi park, close to Gabon's southern border with the Republic
                      of Congo, is a larger-than-life experiment in preserving the
                      environment while providing a living to local inhabitants through
                      agricultural production and tourism.

                      From the 1960s to the early 1990s, about 1 800 people worked here
                      maintaining the cableway, which carried the ore from mines at Moanda
                      to the Congolese town of M'Binda. From there, the ore was taken by
                      rail to the Congolese port of Pointe-Noire.

                      But the opening of the 800km trans-Gabon railroad made the cableway
                      redundant. Since 1986, the manganese ore, which is used in the
                      production of steel, batteries and ceramics, has been taken straight
                      to port in the capital, Libreville.

                      This left the mining company, Comilog, with the problem of what to do
                      with the old cableway and the rain forest it traverses.

                      "After a lot of thought, Comilog came up with a project to preserve
                      the environment, allied with development of agricultural production
                      and tourism," said Olivier Dosimont, the operations director.

                      "It was a long and difficult process. We started by fencing off the
                      entire 14 000ha of the park. Our idea was to encourage the extensive
                      breeding of big game and protect it from poachers."

                      This policy has met with varying degrees of success.

                      Imported animals such as impalas and antelopes have not flourished,
                      but local species are doing well, including buffalo, wildebeest and
                      harnessed bushbucks.

                      The park has also become a home for the world's largest and most
                      colourful monkeys, the mandrills with their faces of brilliant red
                      and white.

                      Mandrills, which are increasingly endangered with the human invasion
                      of the rain forest, are found in the wild only in Gabon, the Congo
                      and Cameroon. Gorillas have also established a foothold in the Lekedi
                      park.

                      Comilog also sought to find other jobs for about 100 employees of the
                      old cableway who have remained on the site. A former engineer is in
                      charge of fish-farming, and another raises mushrooms.

                      The fish farm provides about 45% of the income of Sodepal, the
                      subsidiary company set up to run the park.

                      The company also has experimented with the breeding of large rodents
                      called aulacodes, which are related to the porcupine and are
                      considered a tasty dish in West Africa, and is encouraging the
                      development of traditional crafts such as pottery and raffia weaving.

                      "We are trying to teach people the advantages of rearing animals over
                      hunting them," Dosimont said. "But nature is generous and the idea is
                      slow in catching on."

                      Despite all these activities, the park still makes a loss. Dosimont
                      says that if air fares were lower, more tourists - which is what the
                      park really needs - would be encouraged to come to Gabon.

                      http://www.news24.com/News24/Africa/Features/0,,2-11-
                      37_1405587,00.html
                    • bobutne
                      Dosimont believes that high airfares are the primary reason why Gabon has so few tourists. I disagree. My travel agency can send tourists from the US to
                      Message 10 of 24 , Aug 23, 2003
                        Dosimont believes that high airfares are the primary reason why
                        Gabon has so few tourists. I disagree. My travel agency can send
                        tourists from the US to Libreville at less than $1500 airfare, the
                        same-pricing ballpark as the rest of African wildlife destinations.
                        Other factors that are limiting tourism to Gabon:

                        1. High-cost and difficulty to obtain tourist visas. The Gabon
                        consular fee is $100 versus no visa requirement for South Africa for
                        US citizens and $50 fee to visit Kenya or Tanzania. Besides, once
                        you apply for a Gabon visa, it takes a lot of time for the visa to
                        be issued. It took me four weeks when I applied last year to obtain
                        my Gabon visa.

                        2. Few English-speaking personnel in the tourism industry. Unless
                        you speak French, it is very difficult to travel within Gabon.

                        3. In the 12 National Parks of Gabon, only one has adequate tourist
                        facilities, Lope Reserve. Loango is building facilities while all
                        the rest have virtually none. On the other hand, in Lambarene where
                        Schweitzer's hospital is located, the Ogooue Palace is a fine hotel
                        with rooms facing the Ogooue River and in Libreville the Okume
                        Palace InterContinental is an excellent hotel with a highly-trained
                        and responsive staff.

                        4. High crime rate in Libreville as in most African large urban
                        areas. Little for the tourist to do in Libreville other than to take
                        a boat to Pointe Denis for a day or two.

                        5. Unlike South and East Africa, the wildlife in Gabon is
                        unhabituated. The only humans most Gabon wildlife have seen are
                        hunters. Thus, humans to most Gabon wildlife mean death. For
                        example, when I cam across two gorillas in Lope last year, their
                        piercing screams of fear (the female) and outrage (the male) haunt
                        me to this day. If the Gabonese decide that their wildlife is a
                        valuable heritage and resource that should be shared with the world,
                        they will protect it. If not, the whole planet loses.





                        --- In gabondiscussion@yahoogroups.com, "bobutne" <bobutne@a...>
                        wrote:
                        > Bakouma - Gabon is turning a former industrial facility - a
                        gigantic
                        > 76km cableway that once carried manganese ore to Atlantic ports
                        for
                        > export to world markets - into Africa's most unusual nature
                        reserve.
                        >
                        > The Lekedi park, close to Gabon's southern border with the
                        Republic
                        > of Congo, is a larger-than-life experiment in preserving the
                        > environment while providing a living to local inhabitants through
                        > agricultural production and tourism.
                        >
                        > From the 1960s to the early 1990s, about 1 800 people worked here
                        > maintaining the cableway, which carried the ore from mines at
                        Moanda
                        > to the Congolese town of M'Binda. From there, the ore was taken by
                        > rail to the Congolese port of Pointe-Noire.
                        >
                        > But the opening of the 800km trans-Gabon railroad made the
                        cableway
                        > redundant. Since 1986, the manganese ore, which is used in the
                        > production of steel, batteries and ceramics, has been taken
                        straight
                        > to port in the capital, Libreville.
                        >
                        > This left the mining company, Comilog, with the problem of what to
                        do
                        > with the old cableway and the rain forest it traverses.
                        >
                        > "After a lot of thought, Comilog came up with a project to
                        preserve
                        > the environment, allied with development of agricultural
                        production
                        > and tourism," said Olivier Dosimont, the operations director.
                        >
                        > "It was a long and difficult process. We started by fencing off
                        the
                        > entire 14 000ha of the park. Our idea was to encourage the
                        extensive
                        > breeding of big game and protect it from poachers."
                        >
                        > This policy has met with varying degrees of success.
                        >
                        > Imported animals such as impalas and antelopes have not
                        flourished,
                        > but local species are doing well, including buffalo, wildebeest
                        and
                        > harnessed bushbucks.
                        >
                        > The park has also become a home for the world's largest and most
                        > colourful monkeys, the mandrills with their faces of brilliant red
                        > and white.
                        >
                        > Mandrills, which are increasingly endangered with the human
                        invasion
                        > of the rain forest, are found in the wild only in Gabon, the Congo
                        > and Cameroon. Gorillas have also established a foothold in the
                        Lekedi
                        > park.
                        >
                        > Comilog also sought to find other jobs for about 100 employees of
                        the
                        > old cableway who have remained on the site. A former engineer is
                        in
                        > charge of fish-farming, and another raises mushrooms.
                        >
                        > The fish farm provides about 45% of the income of Sodepal, the
                        > subsidiary company set up to run the park.
                        >
                        > The company also has experimented with the breeding of large
                        rodents
                        > called aulacodes, which are related to the porcupine and are
                        > considered a tasty dish in West Africa, and is encouraging the
                        > development of traditional crafts such as pottery and raffia
                        weaving.
                        >
                        > "We are trying to teach people the advantages of rearing animals
                        over
                        > hunting them," Dosimont said. "But nature is generous and the idea
                        is
                        > slow in catching on."
                        >
                        > Despite all these activities, the park still makes a loss.
                        Dosimont
                        > says that if air fares were lower, more tourists - which is what
                        the
                        > park really needs - would be encouraged to come to Gabon.
                        >
                        > http://www.news24.com/News24/Africa/Features/0,,2-11-
                        > 37_1405587,00.html
                      • bobutne
                        http://www.nationalgeographic.com/adventure/0309/photo_index.html Need to buy the September issue to read the entire story.
                        Message 11 of 24 , Aug 23, 2003
                          http://www.nationalgeographic.com/adventure/0309/photo_index.html

                          Need to buy the September issue to read the entire story.
                        • dupont3@juno.com
                          Why are you so focused on this? Like I said before, we have the similar stuff going on here in the US. Maybe you forgot how Bush became President. Yet, maybe
                          Message 12 of 24 , Aug 25, 2003
                            Why are you so focused on this? Like I said before, we have the similar
                            stuff going on here in the US. Maybe you forgot how Bush became
                            President. Yet, maybe you even voted for Bush or support him still. In
                            Bongo's case it is good for Africa that he is still in power. Meanwhile
                            the Bush administration has been a disaster for the democratic process.
                            You seem to make a lot of fuss about Bongo's accounts but I will wager
                            that you do not blink an eye at the accounts of the many billionares in
                            America who are involved in shady business deals or the politicians who
                            are on the payroll of them. What hypocrisy! to point a finger at Bongo
                            and then indirectly benefit from all the shady crap going on in the US.
                            Speaking of the UN, we all know how much they are in the pocket of the US
                            and the trouble that is causing them around the world. The last time
                            that I checked, the US owed them billions of dollars in back dues. Also,
                            how many young kids were killed in Iraq because of UN sanctions? Did you
                            make any noise about that? Bongo needs as much money as he can get to
                            just put a word in for Gabon at the table of the corrupt Western leaders.
                            You seem brainwashed because you blindly follow those big crooks who have
                            you chasing down the wrong road, when you should be driving down the road
                            that leads to their house.


                            Ciao,
                            dupont


                            On Sat, 23 Aug 2003 01:57:20 +0000 "C Yombi" <c_yombi@...>
                            writes:
                            > May be it's just you who is brainwashed... Or may be people like the
                            > UN are
                            > just making it all up.....
                            >
                            >
                            > Vol 43 Number 25 - 20 December 2002
                            >
                            > Hear those drums
                            >
                            > For want of opposition, President Bongo can plan to rule until 2012
                            > After three decades at the head of one of Africa's worst managed and
                            > most
                            > corrupt oil economies, President Omar Bongo might well expect some
                            > political
                            > trouble. Quite the opposite. His ruling Parti Démocratique Gabonais
                            > (PDG)
                            > will sweep the board in the local elections on 29 December and Bongo
                            > (health
                            > permitting) could win yet another seven-year presidential term in
                            > the
                            > election due in 2005. The oppositionists of the early 1990s have
                            > been
                            > exiled, crushed or coopted.
                            >
                            > Gabonese have lost interest in the perennially rigged elections.
                            > Turnout at
                            > the legislative polls last December was under 20 per cent and may be
                            > lower
                            > still in the local polls. Electoral registers have been doctored
                            > down to
                            > 523,000: there were 775,000 names on the lists for the 2001
                            > elections. Many
                            > nominal political opponents are in Bongo's pay, the rest are divided
                            > and
                            > lack national support. For wealthy Gabonese, elections are a
                            > patronage
                            > competition which shares out jobs and resources from 250,000 barrels
                            > of oil
                            > a day, plus smaller timber and manganese exports.
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            -------------------------------------------------------------------------
                            -------
                            >
                            > Vol 42 Number 16 - 10 August 2001
                            >
                            > Hey big spender
                            >
                            > The fuss over how President El Hadj Omar Bongo came to deposit over
                            > US$180
                            > million in three private Citibank accounts in New York won't go
                            > away. First
                            > raised in United States Senate hearings in November 1999, it is now
                            > the
                            > subject of an embarrassing law suit against Bongo in the US Federal
                            > Court,
                            > Washington. Bongo's lawyers are trying to establish diplomatic
                            > immunity for
                            > him as a serving head of a state recognised by the US government.
                            > And with
                            > another US legal suit from a scrap metal company pending, Bongo's
                            > big-spending habits Stateside ­ he bought four Boeing passenger jets
                            > in June
                            > ­ won't win him any respite from his legal adversaries there.
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            -------------------------------------------------------------------------
                            -------
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            -------------------------------------------------------------------------
                            -------
                            >
                            > Vol 40 Number 22 - 05 November 1999
                            >
                            > Digging deeper holes
                            >
                            > A massive hole in Gabon's public finances - some say of more than
                            > US$350
                            > million - is at the heart of its growing financial and political
                            > crisis. By
                            > the end of last year, arrears to foreign creditors were estimated at
                            > 160
                            > billion CFA francs ($256.4 mn.) - and have probably doubled this
                            > year.
                            > President Omar Bongo's government also has arrears of CFA 100 bn. to
                            > local
                            > banks. With an oil-fired GNP per head of $4,000, Gabon is one of
                            > Africa's
                            > wealthiest states. Yet most people live in poverty and a damning new
                            > report
                            > from the United Nations Development Programme says social services
                            > are
                            > collapsing. Tracing the missing $350 mn. preoccupies both foreign
                            > creditors
                            > and Gabonese who worry about government corruption and
                            > mismanagement. And
                            > President Bongo is no longer able to rely on Paris nor Washington to
                            > block
                            > exposure of murky areas in his government. He tried everything,
                            > including a
                            > personal call to French President Jacques Chirac, to stifle the
                            > inquiry by
                            > magistrate Eva Joly into Elf-Aquitaine's unorthodox financing
                            > operations.
                            >
                            > This focussed on Bongo's relationship with André Tarallo,
                            > Elf-Gabon's
                            > disgraced and ousted Président-Directeur Général. Late last month,
                            > Joly's
                            > inquiries moved on when a Swiss magistrate, Paul Parraudin, produced
                            > bank
                            > records showing that over 600 mn. French francs ($97 mn.) had been
                            > channelled through Tarallo's Swiss account from the Gabonese
                            > presidency.
                            > Back home, after a year of strikes, demonstrations and the payments
                            > crisis,
                            > Bongo's government needs a new deal with the International Monetary
                            > Fund.
                            > Last year, the Fund suspended its Extended Financing Facility for
                            > several
                            > reasons, including 'lack of transparency in public finance'
                            > (Fundspeak for
                            > corruption). Libreville's negotiating team is led by respected
                            > Finance
                            > Minister Emile Doumba, who has been trying, with limited success, to
                            >
                            > persuade his ministerial colleagues and the presidency to implement
                            > an
                            > IMF-inspired austerity programme.
                            >
                            >
                            -------------------------------------------------------------------------
                            -----------------------------------------------------------------------Fr
                            eedom
                            >
                            > in the World 1998-99: Gabon
                            > Freedom House Survey 1999
                            > Economy: Capitalist (highly corrupt)
                            > Population: 1,200,000
                            > PPP: $3,766
                            > Life Expectancy: 54
                            > Ethnic Groups: Fang, Eshira, Bapounou, Bateke, other Bantu, other
                            > Africans,
                            > Europeans
                            > Polity: Dominant party
                            > Capital: Libreville
                            > Political Rights: 5
                            > Civil Liberties: 4
                            > Status: Partly Free
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > Overview
                            > In December, President Omar Bongo was returned to office for a
                            > seven-year
                            > term. The polling, which was partially boycotted by the opposition,
                            > was
                            > marked by serious irregularities. The nominally independent National
                            >
                            > Election Commission, which was created under the new constitution
                            > approved
                            > by referendum in 1995, proved neither autonomous nor competent.
                            > Behind a
                            > facade of democratic institutions, Bongo used patronage,
                            > manipulation, and
                            > intimidation to retain power. In Libreville in May, student riots
                            > prompted
                            > by deteriorating economic conditions were quickly suppressed. At
                            > least ten
                            > students were seriously hurt. Three decades of autocratic rule have
                            > made
                            > Bongo among the world's richest men and left the vast majority of
                            > oil-rich
                            > Gabon's 1.4 million people mired in poverty. Bongo is strongly
                            > backed by the
                            > army and by France. The highly profitable French ELF oil company
                            > plays a
                            > dominant role in the country's economic and political life.
                            >
                            > Straddling the equator on central Africa's west coast, Gabon gained
                            > independence from France in 1960. Bongo, whom France raised from
                            > soldier to
                            > president in 1967, completed his predecessor's consolidation of
                            > power by
                            > officially outlawing the opposition. France, which maintains 600
                            > marines in
                            > Gabon, has intervened twice to preserve Bongo's regime. In 1990,
                            > protests
                            > prompted by economic duress forced Bongo to accept a conference that
                            >
                            > opposition leaders hoped would promote a peaceful democratic
                            > transition.
                            > Bongo retained power, however, in rigged 1993 elections that sparked
                            > violent
                            > protests and repression led by his Presidential Guard. The 1994
                            > Paris
                            > Accords claimed to institute true democratic reforms. Municipal
                            > elections in
                            > 1996 saw major opposition gains, including the election of Paul Mba
                            > Abbesole, the leader of the largest opposition party, as mayor of
                            > Libreville. Legislative polls delayed by decree until December 1996
                            > were
                            > again beset by fraud as Bongo's Gabon Democratic Party won an
                            > overwhelming,
                            > but unconvincing victory.
                            >
                            > Political Rights and Civil Liberties
                            > Despite a gradual political opening since 1990, Gabon's citizens
                            > have never
                            > been able to exercise their constitutional right to change their
                            > government
                            > democratically. Bongo's 1998 electoral victory with 61 percent of
                            > the vote
                            > followed a campaign that made profligate use of state resources and
                            > state
                            > media to promote his incumbency. Legislative elections have also
                            > been
                            > seriously flawed.
                            >
                            > State institutions are influenced or controlled by Bongo and a small
                            > elite
                            > around him. The judiciary suffers from political interference.
                            > Rights to
                            > legal counsel and public criminal trials are generally respected,
                            > but the
                            > law presumes guilt. Judges may deliver summary verdicts, and torture
                            > remains
                            > a standard route to produce confessions. Prison conditions are
                            > marked by
                            > beatings and insufficient food, water, and medical care. The
                            > government
                            > often detains refugees without charge, and there are reports of
                            > forced labor
                            > by detainees. Rights of assembly and association are
                            > constitutionally
                            > guaranteed, but permits required for public gatherings are sometimes
                            >
                            > refused. Freedom to form and join political parties is generally
                            > respected,
                            > but civil servants may face harassment based on their associations.
                            > Nongovernmental organizations operate openly, although the Gabonese
                            > League
                            > of Human Rights has reported threats and harassment.
                            >
                            > A government daily and approximately one dozen private weeklies,
                            > which are
                            > primarily controlled by opposition parties, are published. The
                            > government
                            > overwhelmingly dominates the broadcast media, which reach a far
                            > larger
                            > audience. Only a few private broadcasters have been licensed, and
                            > their
                            > viability is tenuous. A 1998 crackdown on private media has raised
                            > serious
                            > concerns for free expression. In February, Radio Soleil, which was
                            > associated with the main Bucherons opposition party, was closed. In
                            > January,
                            > a cartoonist was sentenced to six months imprisonment for lampooning
                            > Bongo.
                            > Publication of his newspaper was suspended for one month. The
                            > president of
                            > the journalists' union was jailed for eight months. In August, the
                            > opposition newspaper La Griffe was closed, and three of its staff
                            > received
                            > eight-month suspended sentences after publishing allegations of
                            > ivory
                            > smuggling by the national airline. Soldiers raided La Griffe offices
                            > and
                            > seized equipment. Foreign newspapers, magazines, and broadcasts are
                            > usually
                            > widely available, but editions criticizing Bongo have been seized.
                            >
                            > Most of the small formal sector work force is unionized, although
                            > unions
                            > must register with the government in order to be officially
                            > recognized.
                            > Despite legal protections, the government has taken action against
                            > numerous
                            > strikers and unions and used force to suppress illegal
                            > demonstrations. While
                            > no legal restrictions on travel exist, harassment on political and
                            > ethnic
                            > bases has been reported. Religious freedom is constitutionally
                            > guaranteed
                            > and respected. An official ban on Jehovah's Witnesses is not
                            > enforced.
                            >
                            > Legal protections for women include equal access laws for education,
                            >
                            > business, and investment. In addition to owning property and
                            > businesses,
                            > women constitute more than 50 percent of the salaried workforce in
                            > the
                            > health and trade sectors. At the same time, there are only six women
                            > in the
                            > 120-member National Assembly and one woman in the cabinet. Women
                            > continue to
                            > face legal and cultural discrimination, particularly in rural areas,
                            > and are
                            > reportedly subject to widespread domestic violence.
                            >
                            > Little wealth from Gabon's oil revenues reaches the broad populace,
                            > most of
                            > which is engaged in subsistence farming. Corruption is endemic.
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > >From: dupont3@...
                            > >Reply-To: gabondiscussion@yahoogroups.com
                            > >To: gabondiscussion@yahoogroups.com
                            > >Subject: Re: [Gabon Discussion] re: "Bongo on Terrorism"
                            > >Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2003 20:18:18 -0700
                            > >
                            > >Whoever would say that the Gabonese are worse off now than
                            > independence
                            > >must be brainwashed or does not know a damm thing about how it was
                            > like
                            > >to reorganize institutions after a being under a colonial power.
                            > Also,
                            > >what a disrespect to all the people who worked hard for an
                            > independent
                            > >and for 40 yrs. stable Gabon.
                            > >To go on criticizing the government without coming up with any
                            > >convincing alternative ideas other than conspiracy theories and
                            > rumour is
                            > >with all due respect, disingenuous and insensitive poppycock.
                            > >
                            > >Ciao,
                            > >dupont
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >On Thu, 21 Aug 2003 20:31:32 +0000 "C Yombi" <c_yombi@...>
                            > >writes:
                            > > > Obvious point - Bongo has had almost 40 yrs to make a difference
                            > and
                            > > > the
                            > > > Gabonese are worse off now than at independence - bad track
                            > record.
                            > > > If you
                            > > > think elections were fair and square then you do not agree with
                            > > > independent
                            > > > election observers form around the world. In the end, it is not
                            > what
                            > > > I want
                            > > > for Gabon - but what the GABONESE want for themselves - my
                            > husband
                            > > > included
                            > > > who is from Gabon.
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > > >From: dupont3@...
                            > > > >Reply-To: gabondiscussion@yahoogroups.com
                            > > > >To: gabondiscussion@yahoogroups.com
                            > > > >Subject: Re: [Gabon Discussion] re: "Bongo on Terrorism"
                            > > > >Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 12:59:19 -0700
                            > > > >
                            > > > >Yes, I have seen how the some Gabonese people live. I have been
                            > to
                            > > > poorly
                            > > > >supplied hospitals and schools. I have seen what you consider
                            > to be
                            > > > the
                            > > > >obvious hypocrisy.
                            > > > >But I know that here in America the lifestyle of many poor
                            > people
                            > > > is no
                            > > > >different. It is just on a different scale. Most poor people
                            > here
                            > > > in the
                            > > > >US do not have health insurance. While rich people spend money
                            > > > lavishly
                            > > > >in the midst of a lot of pain and suffering. Homeless people
                            > abound
                            > > > on
                            > > > >the streets and our political system although 2 party,
                            > > > disenfranchises
                            > > > >many potentially great opponents. It is like. "been there done
                            > > > that" when
                            > > > >you try to focus on that type of stuff when talking about a
                            > > > nations
                            > > > >development in a capitalist system. Maybe a socialist system
                            > like
                            > > > in
                            > > > >Cuba would better achieve what you want in Gabon.
                            > > > >I think that a healthy dose of idealism is what it takes to
                            > jump
                            > > > start
                            > > > >any successful capitalist economy. There is nothing wrong with
                            > a
                            > > > healthy
                            > > > >dose of idealism, in fact, one can argue that idealistic values
                            > are
                            > > > the
                            > > > >foundations of a healthy democracy. The hard part is getting
                            > people
                            > > > to
                            > > > >believe in the face of the harsh realities of capitalism.
                            > > > >Now to say that a majority of people do not support President
                            > Bongo
                            > > > is
                            > > > >not true. He has won elections fair and square, for all
                            > that's
                            > > > worth
                            > > > >and beyond that is the most capable person for the job. The man
                            > is
                            > > > a
                            > > > >national treasure! Why would you want him out?
                            > > > >If you can not work with leaders like President Bongo then you
                            > are
                            > > > not
                            > > > >being realistic about facing the challenges of such
                            > underdeveloped
                            > > > >nations in Africa.You might be afraid to deal with the hard
                            > issues
                            > > > and
                            > > > >instead choose to focus on the stuff that makes good soap
                            > opera.
                            > > > >I say lets look at the big picture when it comes to world
                            > poverty.
                            > > > Step
                            > > > >back and look at this picture and you will see that the
                            > difference
                            > > > points
                            > > > >to the policies of the so-called first world nations and not
                            > that
                            > > > of a
                            > > > >few seemingly wealthy(and well meaning) leaders who are still
                            > poor
                            > > > in
                            > > > >comparison.
                            > > > >
                            > > > >Ciao,
                            > > > >dupont
                            > > > >
                            > > > >
                            > > > >On Tue, 19 Aug 2003 19:36:16 +0000 "C Yombi"
                            > <c_yombi@...>
                            > > > >writes:
                            > > > > > With all due respect,
                            > > > > > You have visited Gabon but have you lived on the people's
                            > > > level?
                            > > > > > Have you
                            > > > > > seen all of the largess that Bongo has spread to only
                            > > > his"friends"?
                            > > > > > Have you
                            > > > > > seen the prisons and the schools? Have you seen all of the
                            > > > obvious
                            > > > > > hypocrisy? Do you realize that Bongo only repaired the
                            > national
                            > > > > > train
                            > > > > > service so he could send his fleet of expensive cars to
                            > > > Franceville
                            > > > > > for his
                            > > > > > annual vacation? How many Gabonese can take a vacation to
                            > the
                            > > > > > capital
                            > > > > > annually? Any nation that has to rely on Peace Corps to
                            > > > distribute
                            > > > > > condoms
                            > > > > > while trucks get to every corner distributing soft drinks
                            > has a
                            > > > > > problem and
                            > > > > > it starts with the government.
                            > > > > >
                            > > > > > Also, when a majority of the population does not support the
                            > > > > > president and
                            > > > > > had little or no voice to change this, is this a great
                            > > > democracy?
                            > > > > > Another
                            > > > > > principle of the United State's founding fathers was freedom
                            > of
                            > > > > > choice. Have
                            > > > > > you ever heard of Neo-colonialism?
                            > > > > >
                            > > > > > How can individuals work toward supporting their governments
                            > > > and
                            > > > > > country if
                            > > > > > the government is taking food out of their mouths and
                            > spending
                            > > > it on
                            > > > > > lavish
                            > > > > > trips to Paris? Have you been to rural health clinics where
                            > > > women
                            > > > > > struggle
                            > > > > > to keep their children healthy or talked to primary school
                            > > > students
                            > > > > > who have
                            > > > > > no teachers? May be a less idealistic and more realistic
                            > > > approach to
                            > > > > > the
                            > > > > > reality of one party governments in Africa would be a better
                            > > > > > approach.
                            > > > > >
                            > > > > > Carol
                            > > > > >
                            > > > > >
                            > > > > >
                            > > > > > >From: dupont3@...
                            > > > > > >Reply-To: gabondiscussion@yahoogroups.com
                            > > > > > >To: gabondiscussion@yahoogroups.com
                            > > > > > >Subject: Re: [Gabon Discussion] re: "Bongo on Terrorism"
                            > > > > > >Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2003 10:05:13 -0700
                            > > > > > >
                            > > > > > >Well , with all due respect, I think that concentrating on
                            > > > Bongo's
                            > > > > > bank
                            > > > > > >account will get you nowhere.
                            > > > > > >Ever thought about working with the President to solve some
                            > of
                            > > > the
                            > > > > > >nations problems?
                            > > > > > >Here in America we have many of the same problems and this
                            > is
                            > > > the
                            > > > > > >wealthiest country in the world!
                            > > > > > >We have an epidemic of homeless people, decaying schools
                            > in
                            > > > inner
                            > > > > > cities
                            > > > > > >and a railroad(Amtrak) that cannot get its thing together.
                            > We
                            > > > are
                            > > > > > >spending 4 Billion dollars a month in Iraq at a time when
                            > our
                            > > > > > schools
                            > > > > > >need books.
                            > > > > > >I would also like to ask how is it that having President
                            > Bongo
                            > > > step
                            > > > > > down
                            > > > > > >be good for Gabon or change the current situation for the
                            > > > better?
                            > > > > > >I have been to Gabon and it seems like the country is
                            > dependent
                            > > > on
                            > > > > > the
                            > > > > > >French for many things. If the French were to leave would
                            > it
                            > > > make
                            > > > > > >anything better? I think not, it would not make anything
                            > > > better
                            > > > > > and
                            > > > > > >getting rid of President Bongo would probably destabilize
                            > the
                            > > > > > country and
                            > > > > > >the region has the resulting power grab would be like going
                            > > > back in
                            > > > > > time.
                            > > > > > >I think that it is a shame that many Africans seem to think
                            > > > more
                            > > > > > about
                            > > > > > >fighting for power than the issues important for developing
                            > > > their
                            > > > > > >country.
                            > > > > > >It is time to look beyond forced power sharing as a
                            > solution.
                            > > > In
                            > > > > > Gabon
                            > > > > > >each citizen must first make an effort to support the
                            > state.
                            > > > Only
                            > > > > > then
                            > > > > > >will you find the necessary energy to tackle major
                            > issues.The
                            > > > > > founding
                            > > > > > >fathers of the US went by a decree "United We Stand Divided
                            > We
                            > > > > > Fall"
                            > > > > > >Every nation that aspires to economic success must first
                            > find
                            > > > a
                            > > > > > common
                            > > > > > >ground to stand on.
                            > > > > > >The Gabonese are a beautiful and special people and sure,
                            > there
                            > > > are
                            > > > > > many
                            > > > > > >who disagree with the President. But there are also many
                            > who
                            > > > do
                            > > > > > not
                            > > > > > >understand what a great leader that they have in Bongo.
                            > Many
                            > > > who do
                            > > > > > not
                            > > > > > >understand the complete geopolitical challenge that not
                            > only
                            > > > > > Africans,
                            > > > > > >but most 3rd world nations face when trying to develop
                            > their
                            > > > > > economies in
                            > > > > > >this new world order.
                            > > > > > >Lets discuss bold new ideas and initiatives that can help
                            > the
                            > > > > > President
                            > > > > > >lead Gabon into the 21st century.
                            > > > > > >I love the famous quote in President John F Kennedy's
                            > > > inauguration
                            > > > > > speech
                            > > > > > >when he said, "ask not what your country can do for you,
                            > but
                            > > > what
                            > > > > > you can
                            > > > > > >do for your country."
                            > > > > > >Yes, those are just words, but words, if understood
                            > correctly,
                            > > > can
                            > > > > > >inspire man to great heights.
                            > > > > > >
                            > > > > > >ciao,
                            > > > > > >dupont
                            > > > > > >
                            > > > > > >
                            > > > > > >
                            > > > > > >
                            > > > > > >
                            > > > > > >On Mon, 18 Aug 2003 20:46:21 +0000 "C Yombi"
                            > > > <c_yombi@...>
                            > > > > > >writes:
                            > > > > > > > After having lived in a small town - Leconi - with a
                            > "Bongo
                            > > > > > house"
                            > > > > > > > while my
                            > > > > > > > neighbors could hardly afford to send their children to
                            > > > school
                            > > > > > and
                            > > > > > > > riding on
                            > > > > > > > the trans-gabonese railway wondering if we were going to
                            > end
                            > > > up
                            > > > > > in
                            > > > > > > > the water
                            > > > > > > > because of track neglect, I tend to think words are just
                            > > > that -
                            > > > > > > > words. Don't
                            > > > > > > > forget that Bongo is bankrolled by the French government
                            > in
                            > > > > > order to
                            > > > > > > > have
                            > > > > > > > control over Gabon's dwendling oil wealth. Look at
                            > Bongo's
                            > > > bank
                            > > > > > > > accounts and
                            > > > > > > > then at the decaying state of Bongo University in LBV.
                            > If
                            > > > Bongo
                            > > > > > is
                            > > > > > > > such a
                            > > > > > > > good leader, why did he feel the need to renig on his
                            > > > promise
                            > > > > > to
                            > > > > > > > step down
                            > > > > > > > in 2005 by ammending the constitution to rule forever?
                            > Ask
                            > > > many
                            > > > > > > > Gabonese and
                            > > > > > > > they would vhemently disagree with you.
                            > > > > > > >
                            > > > > > > >
                            > > > > > > > >From: "dupont6" <dupont3@...>
                            > > > > > > > >Reply-To: gabondiscussion@yahoogroups.com
                            > > > > > > > >To: gabondiscussion@yahoogroups.com
                            > > > > > > > >Subject: [Gabon Discussion] re: "Bongo on Terrorism"
                            > > > > > > > >Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2003 17:51:43 -0000
                            > > > > > > > >
                            > > > > > > > >Hello:
                            > > > > > > > >I think that stability in any country in Africa depends
                            > > > more
                            > > > > > on
                            > > > > > > > just
                            > > > > > > > >military troops and Presidential guards. Of course all
                            > > > leaders
                            > > > > > of
                            > > > > > > > >states have serious amounts of protection, but does
                            > that
                            > > > > > "keep"
                            > > > > > > > them
                            > > > > > > > >in power? I am more interested in what Bongo has to say
                            > > > about
                            > > > > > the
                            > > > > > > > >political challenges Africans have to face. I think
                            > that it
                            > > > is
                            > > > > > > > >important to focus now on economic development and aid
                            > for
                            > > > > > African
                            > > > > > > > >countries. I like what Bongo has to say about how the
                            > > > marketing
                            > > > > > of
                            > > > > > > > >resources coming out of most African states are not
                            > > > controlled
                            > > > > > by
                            > > > > > > > the
                            > > > > > > > >states themselves but by external entities.
                            > > > > > > > >For example, it is important to develop the
                            > infrastructure
                            > > > > > where
                            > > > > > > > oil
                            > > > > > > > >producing states are actually refining the oil that is
                            > > > > > produced.
                            > > > > > > > Or
                            > > > > > > > >where companies marketing the by-products of resources
                            > > > like
                            > > > > > > > timber,
                            > > > > > > > >gold and diamonds are actually based and run by
                            > Africans
                            > > > native
                            > > > > > to
                            > > > > > > > >the region where they are produced. These things are
                            > more
                            > > > > > > > important
                            > > > > > > > >to the development of peoples lives than who is in
                            > > > political
                            > > > > > > > control
                            > > > > > > > >or what politician has the most money stashed away. I
                            > > > think
                            > > > > > > > arguably
                            > > > > > > > >that an intelligent and capable African head of state
                            > > > deserves
                            > > > > > to
                            > > > > > > > >have as much money as the Queen of England or Bill
                            > Gates
                            > > > for
                            > > > > > that
                            > > > > > > > >matter. Here in America, individuals speculating in the
                            > > > stock
                            > > > > > > > market
                            > > > > > > > >can amass wealth and power beyond that of a resource
                            > rich
                            > > > > > African
                            > > > > > > > >country!
                            > > > > > > > >I agree that Bongo is a better leader to his country
                            > than
                            > > > Bush
                            > > > > > or
                            > > > > > > > >Blair. His political intelligence seems to be leaps
                            > and
                            > > > > > bounds
                            > > > > > > > >beyond what Bush has to offer for instance. That is why
                            > I
                            > > > > > think
                            > > > > > > > that
                            > > > > > > > >he is extremely important for Gabon and for Africa at
                            > this
                            > > > > > time.
                            > > > > > > > >We have seen in America how term limits together with
                            > the
                            > > > > > > > influence
                            > > > > > > > >of special interest in campaign politics has eroded the
                            > > > quality
                            > > > > > of
                            > > > > > > > >leaders that are put in the positions of power. We are
                            > > > seeing
                            > > > > > that
                            > > > > > > > it
                            > > > > > > > >is the "quality" not quantity that is important when it
                            > > > comes
                            > > > > > to
                            > > > > > > > >political leadership.
                            > > > > > > > >Also, what does it say about the leadership of African
                            > > > states
                            > > > > > if
                            > > > > > > > it
                            > > > > > > > >is so easy for Chinese or any other powerful nation to
                            > > > gain
                            > > > > > > > economic
                            > > > > > > > >or political control?
                            > > > > > > > >So I support President Bongo and hope that his agenda
                            > > > reaches
                            > > > > > the
                            > > > > > > > >ears of those world leaders in power who truly care
                            > about
                            > > > the
                            > > > > > > > >development of the African continent. Maybe after the
                            > > > debaucle
                            > > > > > in
                            > > > > > > > >Liberia, politicians(especially black leaders) here in
                            > the
                            > > > > > states
                            > > > > > > > >will put more effort into understanding what economic
                            > > > > > development
                            > > > > > > > in
                            > > > > > > > >Africa means to world stability.
                            > > > > > > > >
                            > > > > > > > >
                            > > > > > > > >Ciao,
                            > > > > > > > >dupont
                            > > > > > > > >
                            > > > > > > > >
                            > > > > > > > >
                            > > > > > > > >
                            > > > > > > > >On Mon, 18 Aug 2003 02:16:49 -0000 "bobutne"
                            > > > <bobutne@...>
                            > > > > > > > writes:
                            > > > > > > > >
                            > > > > > > > > >
                            > > > > > > > > > M'bolo dupont.
                            > > > > > > > > >
                            > > > > > > > > > President Omar Bongo must share (and, probably,
                            > > > abdicate)
                            > > > > > > > > > the "stability to Gabon" mantle with the French
                            > (5,000
                            > > > > > troops
                            > > > > > > > in
                            > > > > > > > > > Gabon and a large garrison surrounding/protecting
                            > the
                            > > > > > > > Presidential
                            > > > > > > > > > palace) who have worked to assure that he is kept in
                            > > > power.
                            > > > > > The
                            > > > > > > > 500
                            > > > > > > > > >
                            > > > > > > > > > Moroccan Presidential Guard helps, too.
                            > > > > > > > > >
                            > > > > > > > > > Bush and Blair are actually debasing the US and
                            > Britain
                            > > > > > world
                            > > > > > > > > > hegemony by their unilateral actions. President Omar
                            > > > Bongo
                            > > > > > is
                            > > > > > > > doing
                            > > > > > > > > >
                            > > > > > > > > > a better job for Gabon than GWB is doing for the US
                            > and
                            > > > > > world.
                            > > > > > > > > >
                            > > > > > > > > > The door to Africa is becoming closed to the West
                            > and
                            > > > is
                            > > > > > being
                            > > > > > > > left
                            > > > > > > > > >
                            > > > > > > > > > wide open for the Chinese to walk right in to gain
                            > > > economic
                            > > > > > and
                            > > > > > > > > > political control. I could expound on this for many,
                            > > > many
                            > > > > > pages
                            > > > > > > > on
                            > > > > > > > > > here but will desist for now.
                            > > > > > > > > >
                            > > > > > > > > >
                            > > > > > > > > >
                            > > > > > > > > >
                            > > > > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
                            > > > > > > > > > ---------------------~-->
                            > > > > > > > > > Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for Your HP,
                            > Epson,
                            > > > Canon
                            > > > > > or
                            > > > > > > > > > Lexmark
                            > > > > > > > > > Printer at Myinks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or
                            > more to
                            > > > the
                            > > > > > US
                            > > > > > > > &
                            > > > > > > > > > Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511
                            > > > > > > > > >
                            > > > http://us.click.yahoo.com/l.m7sD/LIdGAA/qnsNAA/JWorlB/TM
                            > > > > > > > > >
                            > > > > > > >
                            > > > > >
                            > > >
                            > --------------------------------------------------------------------
                            > > > > > > > >-~->
                            > > > > > > > > >
                            > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                            > > > > > > > > > gabondiscussion-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                            > > > > > > > > >
                            > > > > > > > > >
                            > > > > > > > > >
                            > > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                            > > > > > > > > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                            > > > > > > > > >
                            > > > > > > > > >
                            > > > > > > > > >
                            > > > > > > > > >
                            > > > > > > > >
                            > > > > > > >
                            > > > > > > >
                            > > > > >
                            > > >
                            > _________________________________________________________________
                            > > > > > > > Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months
                            > FREE*.
                            > > > > > > > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail
                            > > > > > > >
                            > > > > > > >
                            > > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
                            > > > > > > >
                            > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                            > > > > > > > gabondiscussion-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                            > > > > > > >
                            > > > > > > >
                            > > > > > > >
                            > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                            > > > > > > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                            > > > > > > >
                            > > > > > > >
                            > > > > > > >
                            > > > > > > >
                            > > > > >
                            > > > > >
                            > > >
                            > _________________________________________________________________
                            > > > > > <b>Get MSN 8</b> and help protect your children with
                            > advanced
                            > > > > > parental
                            > > > > > controls. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/parental
                            > > > > >
                            > > > > >
                            > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
                            > > > > >
                            > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                            > > > > > gabondiscussion-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                            > > > > >
                            > > > > >
                            > > > > >
                            > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                            > > > > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                            > > > > >
                            > > > > >
                            > > > > >
                            > > > > >
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > _________________________________________________________________
                            > > > Get MSN 8 and help protect your children with advanced parental
                            > > > controls.
                            > > > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/parental
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
                            > > >
                            > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                            > > > gabondiscussion-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                            > > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > >
                            > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            > >
                            >
                            > _________________________________________________________________
                            > Get MSN 8 and enjoy automatic e-mail virus protection.
                            > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus
                            >
                            >
                            > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
                            >
                            > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                            > gabondiscussion-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                            > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                          • C Yombi
                            The point is that you assume you know what everybody else is doing and thinking. Before getting on your soap box, may be you should find out about the people
                            Message 13 of 24 , Aug 26, 2003
                              The point is that you assume you know what everybody else is doing and
                              thinking. Before getting on your soap box, may be you should find out about
                              the people you are accusing of collusion. You don't know me or have any
                              information about my personal beliefs. You have no idea how I voted in the
                              last elections or even if I am a registered voter. You know nothing about my
                              background or my lifestyle.

                              You bash the UN but seem to glaze over reality of life in Gabon for the
                              majority of the population. How many children die each day in Iraq because
                              of malnutrition and lack of access to healthcare? How many NGOs deal with
                              the everyday care of the world's population? The reality of life is not the
                              ideal. Often, we must choose between the lesser of two evils.

                              No one has disputed your points about the Bush administration. You bring up
                              billionaires like Bill Gates. He has made his money in the private sector,
                              and he has given BILLIONS away to help with research and development of
                              needed vaccines and HIV medications in Africa and elsewhere. The Queen of
                              England has no political power in Great Britain and the people choose to
                              support the royal family monetarily. Bongo on the other hand is directly
                              responsible, just like Bush, for the policies and corruption in his country.

                              You assume your point is the best and leave no room for the off chance that
                              you could be wrong. In the end everyone is entitled to their own opinions,
                              but this should be a discussion forum and not a crusade to convert those to
                              your view of the world. There is no single correct point of view on any
                              issue. Our own cultural biases and upbringings play a part in our
                              understanding and interactions with those that are different than us. This
                              is very apparent with you.

                              (And by the way, I used to live down the road from the crook's house - I
                              know how he lives the one day a year he chooses to reside there.)


                              >From: dupont3@...
                              >Reply-To: gabondiscussion@yahoogroups.com
                              >To: gabondiscussion@yahoogroups.com
                              >Subject: Re: [Gabon Discussion] re: "Bongo on Terrorism"
                              >Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2003 15:51:03 -0700
                              >
                              >Why are you so focused on this? Like I said before, we have the similar
                              >stuff going on here in the US. Maybe you forgot how Bush became
                              >President. Yet, maybe you even voted for Bush or support him still. In
                              >Bongo's case it is good for Africa that he is still in power. Meanwhile
                              >the Bush administration has been a disaster for the democratic process.
                              >You seem to make a lot of fuss about Bongo's accounts but I will wager
                              >that you do not blink an eye at the accounts of the many billionares in
                              >America who are involved in shady business deals or the politicians who
                              >are on the payroll of them. What hypocrisy! to point a finger at Bongo
                              >and then indirectly benefit from all the shady crap going on in the US.
                              >Speaking of the UN, we all know how much they are in the pocket of the US
                              >and the trouble that is causing them around the world. The last time
                              >that I checked, the US owed them billions of dollars in back dues. Also,
                              >how many young kids were killed in Iraq because of UN sanctions? Did you
                              >make any noise about that? Bongo needs as much money as he can get to
                              >just put a word in for Gabon at the table of the corrupt Western leaders.
                              >You seem brainwashed because you blindly follow those big crooks who have
                              >you chasing down the wrong road, when you should be driving down the road
                              >that leads to their house.
                              >
                              >
                              >Ciao,
                              >dupont
                              >
                              >
                              >On Sat, 23 Aug 2003 01:57:20 +0000 "C Yombi" <c_yombi@...>
                              >writes:
                              > > May be it's just you who is brainwashed... Or may be people like the
                              > > UN are
                              > > just making it all up.....
                              > >
                              > >
                              > > Vol 43 Number 25 - 20 December 2002
                              > >
                              > > Hear those drums
                              > >
                              > > For want of opposition, President Bongo can plan to rule until 2012
                              > > After three decades at the head of one of Africa's worst managed and
                              > > most
                              > > corrupt oil economies, President Omar Bongo might well expect some
                              > > political
                              > > trouble. Quite the opposite. His ruling Parti D�mocratique Gabonais
                              > > (PDG)
                              > > will sweep the board in the local elections on 29 December and Bongo
                              > > (health
                              > > permitting) could win yet another seven-year presidential term in
                              > > the
                              > > election due in 2005. The oppositionists of the early 1990s have
                              > > been
                              > > exiled, crushed or coopted.
                              > >
                              > > Gabonese have lost interest in the perennially rigged elections.
                              > > Turnout at
                              > > the legislative polls last December was under 20 per cent and may be
                              > > lower
                              > > still in the local polls. Electoral registers have been doctored
                              > > down to
                              > > 523,000: there were 775,000 names on the lists for the 2001
                              > > elections. Many
                              > > nominal political opponents are in Bongo's pay, the rest are divided
                              > > and
                              > > lack national support. For wealthy Gabonese, elections are a
                              > > patronage
                              > > competition which shares out jobs and resources from 250,000 barrels
                              > > of oil
                              > > a day, plus smaller timber and manganese exports.
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              >-------------------------------------------------------------------------
                              >-------
                              > >
                              > > Vol 42 Number 16 - 10 August 2001
                              > >
                              > > Hey big spender
                              > >
                              > > The fuss over how President El Hadj Omar Bongo came to deposit over
                              > > US$180
                              > > million in three private Citibank accounts in New York won't go
                              > > away. First
                              > > raised in United States Senate hearings in November 1999, it is now
                              > > the
                              > > subject of an embarrassing law suit against Bongo in the US Federal
                              > > Court,
                              > > Washington. Bongo's lawyers are trying to establish diplomatic
                              > > immunity for
                              > > him as a serving head of a state recognised by the US government.
                              > > And with
                              > > another US legal suit from a scrap metal company pending, Bongo's
                              > > big-spending habits Stateside � he bought four Boeing passenger jets
                              > > in June
                              > > � won't win him any respite from his legal adversaries there.
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              >-------------------------------------------------------------------------
                              >-------
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              >-------------------------------------------------------------------------
                              >-------
                              > >
                              > > Vol 40 Number 22 - 05 November 1999
                              > >
                              > > Digging deeper holes
                              > >
                              > > A massive hole in Gabon's public finances - some say of more than
                              > > US$350
                              > > million - is at the heart of its growing financial and political
                              > > crisis. By
                              > > the end of last year, arrears to foreign creditors were estimated at
                              > > 160
                              > > billion CFA francs ($256.4 mn.) - and have probably doubled this
                              > > year.
                              > > President Omar Bongo's government also has arrears of CFA 100 bn. to
                              > > local
                              > > banks. With an oil-fired GNP per head of $4,000, Gabon is one of
                              > > Africa's
                              > > wealthiest states. Yet most people live in poverty and a damning new
                              > > report
                              > > from the United Nations Development Programme says social services
                              > > are
                              > > collapsing. Tracing the missing $350 mn. preoccupies both foreign
                              > > creditors
                              > > and Gabonese who worry about government corruption and
                              > > mismanagement. And
                              > > President Bongo is no longer able to rely on Paris nor Washington to
                              > > block
                              > > exposure of murky areas in his government. He tried everything,
                              > > including a
                              > > personal call to French President Jacques Chirac, to stifle the
                              > > inquiry by
                              > > magistrate Eva Joly into Elf-Aquitaine's unorthodox financing
                              > > operations.
                              > >
                              > > This focussed on Bongo's relationship with Andr� Tarallo,
                              > > Elf-Gabon's
                              > > disgraced and ousted Pr�sident-Directeur G�n�ral. Late last month,
                              > > Joly's
                              > > inquiries moved on when a Swiss magistrate, Paul Parraudin, produced
                              > > bank
                              > > records showing that over 600 mn. French francs ($97 mn.) had been
                              > > channelled through Tarallo's Swiss account from the Gabonese
                              > > presidency.
                              > > Back home, after a year of strikes, demonstrations and the payments
                              > > crisis,
                              > > Bongo's government needs a new deal with the International Monetary
                              > > Fund.
                              > > Last year, the Fund suspended its Extended Financing Facility for
                              > > several
                              > > reasons, including 'lack of transparency in public finance'
                              > > (Fundspeak for
                              > > corruption). Libreville's negotiating team is led by respected
                              > > Finance
                              > > Minister Emile Doumba, who has been trying, with limited success, to
                              > >
                              > > persuade his ministerial colleagues and the presidency to implement
                              > > an
                              > > IMF-inspired austerity programme.
                              > >
                              > >
                              >-------------------------------------------------------------------------
                              >-----------------------------------------------------------------------Fr
                              >eedom
                              > >
                              > > in the World 1998-99: Gabon
                              > > Freedom House Survey 1999
                              > > Economy: Capitalist (highly corrupt)
                              > > Population: 1,200,000
                              > > PPP: $3,766
                              > > Life Expectancy: 54
                              > > Ethnic Groups: Fang, Eshira, Bapounou, Bateke, other Bantu, other
                              > > Africans,
                              > > Europeans
                              > > Polity: Dominant party
                              > > Capital: Libreville
                              > > Political Rights: 5
                              > > Civil Liberties: 4
                              > > Status: Partly Free
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > > Overview
                              > > In December, President Omar Bongo was returned to office for a
                              > > seven-year
                              > > term. The polling, which was partially boycotted by the opposition,
                              > > was
                              > > marked by serious irregularities. The nominally independent National
                              > >
                              > > Election Commission, which was created under the new constitution
                              > > approved
                              > > by referendum in 1995, proved neither autonomous nor competent.
                              > > Behind a
                              > > facade of democratic institutions, Bongo used patronage,
                              > > manipulation, and
                              > > intimidation to retain power. In Libreville in May, student riots
                              > > prompted
                              > > by deteriorating economic conditions were quickly suppressed. At
                              > > least ten
                              > > students were seriously hurt. Three decades of autocratic rule have
                              > > made
                              > > Bongo among the world's richest men and left the vast majority of
                              > > oil-rich
                              > > Gabon's 1.4 million people mired in poverty. Bongo is strongly
                              > > backed by the
                              > > army and by France. The highly profitable French ELF oil company
                              > > plays a
                              > > dominant role in the country's economic and political life.
                              > >
                              > > Straddling the equator on central Africa's west coast, Gabon gained
                              > > independence from France in 1960. Bongo, whom France raised from
                              > > soldier to
                              > > president in 1967, completed his predecessor's consolidation of
                              > > power by
                              > > officially outlawing the opposition. France, which maintains 600
                              > > marines in
                              > > Gabon, has intervened twice to preserve Bongo's regime. In 1990,
                              > > protests
                              > > prompted by economic duress forced Bongo to accept a conference that
                              > >
                              > > opposition leaders hoped would promote a peaceful democratic
                              > > transition.
                              > > Bongo retained power, however, in rigged 1993 elections that sparked
                              > > violent
                              > > protests and repression led by his Presidential Guard. The 1994
                              > > Paris
                              > > Accords claimed to institute true democratic reforms. Municipal
                              > > elections in
                              > > 1996 saw major opposition gains, including the election of Paul Mba
                              > > Abbesole, the leader of the largest opposition party, as mayor of
                              > > Libreville. Legislative polls delayed by decree until December 1996
                              > > were
                              > > again beset by fraud as Bongo's Gabon Democratic Party won an
                              > > overwhelming,
                              > > but unconvincing victory.
                              > >
                              > > Political Rights and Civil Liberties
                              > > Despite a gradual political opening since 1990, Gabon's citizens
                              > > have never
                              > > been able to exercise their constitutional right to change their
                              > > government
                              > > democratically. Bongo's 1998 electoral victory with 61 percent of
                              > > the vote
                              > > followed a campaign that made profligate use of state resources and
                              > > state
                              > > media to promote his incumbency. Legislative elections have also
                              > > been
                              > > seriously flawed.
                              > >
                              > > State institutions are influenced or controlled by Bongo and a small
                              > > elite
                              > > around him. The judiciary suffers from political interference.
                              > > Rights to
                              > > legal counsel and public criminal trials are generally respected,
                              > > but the
                              > > law presumes guilt. Judges may deliver summary verdicts, and torture
                              > > remains
                              > > a standard route to produce confessions. Prison conditions are
                              > > marked by
                              > > beatings and insufficient food, water, and medical care. The
                              > > government
                              > > often detains refugees without charge, and there are reports of
                              > > forced labor
                              > > by detainees. Rights of assembly and association are
                              > > constitutionally
                              > > guaranteed, but permits required for public gatherings are sometimes
                              > >
                              > > refused. Freedom to form and join political parties is generally
                              > > respected,
                              > > but civil servants may face harassment based on their associations.
                              > > Nongovernmental organizations operate openly, although the Gabonese
                              > > League
                              > > of Human Rights has reported threats and harassment.
                              > >
                              > > A government daily and approximately one dozen private weeklies,
                              > > which are
                              > > primarily controlled by opposition parties, are published. The
                              > > government
                              > > overwhelmingly dominates the broadcast media, which reach a far
                              > > larger
                              > > audience. Only a few private broadcasters have been licensed, and
                              > > their
                              > > viability is tenuous. A 1998 crackdown on private media has raised
                              > > serious
                              > > concerns for free expression. In February, Radio Soleil, which was
                              > > associated with the main Bucherons opposition party, was closed. In
                              > > January,
                              > > a cartoonist was sentenced to six months imprisonment for lampooning
                              > > Bongo.
                              > > Publication of his newspaper was suspended for one month. The
                              > > president of
                              > > the journalists' union was jailed for eight months. In August, the
                              > > opposition newspaper La Griffe was closed, and three of its staff
                              > > received
                              > > eight-month suspended sentences after publishing allegations of
                              > > ivory
                              > > smuggling by the national airline. Soldiers raided La Griffe offices
                              > > and
                              > > seized equipment. Foreign newspapers, magazines, and broadcasts are
                              > > usually
                              > > widely available, but editions criticizing Bongo have been seized.
                              > >
                              > > Most of the small formal sector work force is unionized, although
                              > > unions
                              > > must register with the government in order to be officially
                              > > recognized.
                              > > Despite legal protections, the government has taken action against
                              > > numerous
                              > > strikers and unions and used force to suppress illegal
                              > > demonstrations. While
                              > > no legal restrictions on travel exist, harassment on political and
                              > > ethnic
                              > > bases has been reported. Religious freedom is constitutionally
                              > > guaranteed
                              > > and respected. An official ban on Jehovah's Witnesses is not
                              > > enforced.
                              > >
                              > > Legal protections for women include equal access laws for education,
                              > >
                              > > business, and investment. In addition to owning property and
                              > > businesses,
                              > > women constitute more than 50 percent of the salaried workforce in
                              > > the
                              > > health and trade sectors. At the same time, there are only six women
                              > > in the
                              > > 120-member National Assembly and one woman in the cabinet. Women
                              > > continue to
                              > > face legal and cultural discrimination, particularly in rural areas,
                              > > and are
                              > > reportedly subject to widespread domestic violence.
                              > >
                              > > Little wealth from Gabon's oil revenues reaches the broad populace,
                              > > most of
                              > > which is engaged in subsistence farming. Corruption is endemic.
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > > >From: dupont3@...
                              > > >Reply-To: gabondiscussion@yahoogroups.com
                              > > >To: gabondiscussion@yahoogroups.com
                              > > >Subject: Re: [Gabon Discussion] re: "Bongo on Terrorism"
                              > > >Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2003 20:18:18 -0700
                              > > >
                              > > >Whoever would say that the Gabonese are worse off now than
                              > > independence
                              > > >must be brainwashed or does not know a damm thing about how it was
                              > > like
                              > > >to reorganize institutions after a being under a colonial power.
                              > > Also,
                              > > >what a disrespect to all the people who worked hard for an
                              > > independent
                              > > >and for 40 yrs. stable Gabon.
                              > > >To go on criticizing the government without coming up with any
                              > > >convincing alternative ideas other than conspiracy theories and
                              > > rumour is
                              > > >with all due respect, disingenuous and insensitive poppycock.
                              > > >
                              > > >Ciao,
                              > > >dupont
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > >On Thu, 21 Aug 2003 20:31:32 +0000 "C Yombi" <c_yombi@...>
                              > > >writes:
                              > > > > Obvious point - Bongo has had almost 40 yrs to make a difference
                              > > and
                              > > > > the
                              > > > > Gabonese are worse off now than at independence - bad track
                              > > record.
                              > > > > If you
                              > > > > think elections were fair and square then you do not agree with
                              > > > > independent
                              > > > > election observers form around the world. In the end, it is not
                              > > what
                              > > > > I want
                              > > > > for Gabon - but what the GABONESE want for themselves - my
                              > > husband
                              > > > > included
                              > > > > who is from Gabon.
                              > > > >
                              > > > >
                              > > > > >From: dupont3@...
                              > > > > >Reply-To: gabondiscussion@yahoogroups.com
                              > > > > >To: gabondiscussion@yahoogroups.com
                              > > > > >Subject: Re: [Gabon Discussion] re: "Bongo on Terrorism"
                              > > > > >Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 12:59:19 -0700
                              > > > > >
                              > > > > >Yes, I have seen how the some Gabonese people live. I have been
                              > > to
                              > > > > poorly
                              > > > > >supplied hospitals and schools. I have seen what you consider
                              > > to be
                              > > > > the
                              > > > > >obvious hypocrisy.
                              > > > > >But I know that here in America the lifestyle of many poor
                              > > people
                              > > > > is no
                              > > > > >different. It is just on a different scale. Most poor people
                              > > here
                              > > > > in the
                              > > > > >US do not have health insurance. While rich people spend money
                              > > > > lavishly
                              > > > > >in the midst of a lot of pain and suffering. Homeless people
                              > > abound
                              > > > > on
                              > > > > >the streets and our political system although 2 party,
                              > > > > disenfranchises
                              > > > > >many potentially great opponents. It is like. "been there done
                              > > > > that" when
                              > > > > >you try to focus on that type of stuff when talking about a
                              > > > > nations
                              > > > > >development in a capitalist system. Maybe a socialist system
                              > > like
                              > > > > in
                              > > > > >Cuba would better achieve what you want in Gabon.
                              > > > > >I think that a healthy dose of idealism is what it takes to
                              > > jump
                              > > > > start
                              > > > > >any successful capitalist economy. There is nothing wrong with
                              > > a
                              > > > > healthy
                              > > > > >dose of idealism, in fact, one can argue that idealistic values
                              > > are
                              > > > > the
                              > > > > >foundations of a healthy democracy. The hard part is getting
                              > > people
                              > > > > to
                              > > > > >believe in the face of the harsh realities of capitalism.
                              > > > > >Now to say that a majority of people do not support President
                              > > Bongo
                              > > > > is
                              > > > > >not true. He has won elections fair and square, for all
                              > > that's
                              > > > > worth
                              > > > > >and beyond that is the most capable person for the job. The man
                              > > is
                              > > > > a
                              > > > > >national treasure! Why would you want him out?
                              > > > > >If you can not work with leaders like President Bongo then you
                              > > are
                              > > > > not
                              > > > > >being realistic about facing the challenges of such
                              > > underdeveloped
                              > > > > >nations in Africa.You might be afraid to deal with the hard
                              > > issues
                              > > > > and
                              > > > > >instead choose to focus on the stuff that makes good soap
                              > > opera.
                              > > > > >I say lets look at the big picture when it comes to world
                              > > poverty.
                              > > > > Step
                              > > > > >back and look at this picture and you will see that the
                              > > difference
                              > > > > points
                              > > > > >to the policies of the so-called first world nations and not
                              > > that
                              > > > > of a
                              > > > > >few seemingly wealthy(and well meaning) leaders who are still
                              > > poor
                              > > > > in
                              > > > > >comparison.
                              > > > > >
                              > > > > >Ciao,
                              > > > > >dupont
                              > > > > >
                              > > > > >
                              > > > > >On Tue, 19 Aug 2003 19:36:16 +0000 "C Yombi"
                              > > <c_yombi@...>
                              > > > > >writes:
                              > > > > > > With all due respect,
                              > > > > > > You have visited Gabon but have you lived on the people's
                              > > > > level?
                              > > > > > > Have you
                              > > > > > > seen all of the largess that Bongo has spread to only
                              > > > > his"friends"?
                              > > > > > > Have you
                              > > > > > > seen the prisons and the schools? Have you seen all of the
                              > > > > obvious
                              > > > > > > hypocrisy? Do you realize that Bongo only repaired the
                              > > national
                              > > > > > > train
                              > > > > > > service so he could send his fleet of expensive cars to
                              > > > > Franceville
                              > > > > > > for his
                              > > > > > > annual vacation? How many Gabonese can take a vacation to
                              > > the
                              > > > > > > capital
                              > > > > > > annually? Any nation that has to rely on Peace Corps to
                              > > > > distribute
                              > > > > > > condoms
                              > > > > > > while trucks get to every corner distributing soft drinks
                              > > has a
                              > > > > > > problem and
                              > > > > > > it starts with the government.
                              > > > > > >
                              > > > > > > Also, when a majority of the population does not support the
                              > > > > > > president and
                              > > > > > > had little or no voice to change this, is this a great
                              > > > > democracy?
                              > > > > > > Another
                              > > > > > > principle of the United State's founding fathers was freedom
                              > > of
                              > > > > > > choice. Have
                              > > > > > > you ever heard of Neo-colonialism?
                              > > > > > >
                              > > > > > > How can individuals work toward supporting their governments
                              > > > > and
                              > > > > > > country if
                              > > > > > > the government is taking food out of their mouths and
                              > > spending
                              > > > > it on
                              > > > > > > lavish
                              > > > > > > trips to Paris? Have you been to rural health clinics where
                              > > > > women
                              > > > > > > struggle
                              > > > > > > to keep their children healthy or talked to primary school
                              > > > > students
                              > > > > > > who have
                              > > > > > > no teachers? May be a less idealistic and more realistic
                              > > > > approach to
                              > > > > > > the
                              > > > > > > reality of one party governments in Africa would be a better
                              > > > > > > approach.
                              > > > > > >
                              > > > > > > Carol
                              > > > > > >
                              > > > > > >
                              > > > > > >
                              > > > > > > >From: dupont3@...
                              > > > > > > >Reply-To: gabondiscussion@yahoogroups.com
                              > > > > > > >To: gabondiscussion@yahoogroups.com
                              > > > > > > >Subject: Re: [Gabon Discussion] re: "Bongo on Terrorism"
                              > > > > > > >Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2003 10:05:13 -0700
                              > > > > > > >
                              > > > > > > >Well , with all due respect, I think that concentrating on
                              > > > > Bongo's
                              > > > > > > bank
                              > > > > > > >account will get you nowhere.
                              > > > > > > >Ever thought about working with the President to solve some
                              > > of
                              > > > > the
                              > > > > > > >nations problems?
                              > > > > > > >Here in America we have many of the same problems and this
                              > > is
                              > > > > the
                              > > > > > > >wealthiest country in the world!
                              > > > > > > >We have an epidemic of homeless people, decaying schools
                              > > in
                              > > > > inner
                              > > > > > > cities
                              > > > > > > >and a railroad(Amtrak) that cannot get its thing together.
                              > > We
                              > > > > are
                              > > > > > > >spending 4 Billion dollars a month in Iraq at a time when
                              > > our
                              > > > > > > schools
                              > > > > > > >need books.
                              > > > > > > >I would also like to ask how is it that having President
                              > > Bongo
                              > > > > step
                              > > > > > > down
                              > > > > > > >be good for Gabon or change the current situation for the
                              > > > > better?
                              > > > > > > >I have been to Gabon and it seems like the country is
                              > > dependent
                              > > > > on
                              > > > > > > the
                              > > > > > > >French for many things. If the French were to leave would
                              > > it
                              > > > > make
                              > > > > > > >anything better? I think not, it would not make anything
                              > > > > better
                              > > > > > > and
                              > > > > > > >getting rid of President Bongo would probably destabilize
                              > > the
                              > > > > > > country and
                              > > > > > > >the region has the resulting power grab would be like going
                              > > > > back in
                              > > > > > > time.
                              > > > > > > >I think that it is a shame that many Africans seem to think
                              > > > > more
                              > > > > > > about
                              > > > > > > >fighting for power than the issues important for developing
                              > > > > their
                              > > > > > > >country.
                              > > > > > > >It is time to look beyond forced power sharing as a
                              > > solution.
                              > > > > In
                              > > > > > > Gabon
                              > > > > > > >each citizen must first make an effort to support the
                              > > state.
                              > > > > Only
                              > > > > > > then
                              > > > > > > >will you find the necessary energy to tackle major
                              > > issues.The
                              > > > > > > founding
                              > > > > > > >fathers of the US went by a decree "United We Stand Divided
                              > > We
                              > > > > > > Fall"
                              > > > > > > >Every nation that aspires to economic success must first
                              > > find
                              > > > > a
                              > > > > > > common
                              > > > > > > >ground to stand on.
                              > > > > > > >The Gabonese are a beautiful and special people and sure,
                              > > there
                              > > > > are
                              > > > > > > many
                              > > > > > > >who disagree with the President. But there are also many
                              > > who
                              > > > > do
                              > > > > > > not
                              > > > > > > >understand what a great leader that they have in Bongo.
                              > > Many
                              > > > > who do
                              > > > > > > not
                              > > > > > > >understand the complete geopolitical challenge that not
                              > > only
                              > > > > > > Africans,
                              > > > > > > >but most 3rd world nations face when trying to develop
                              > > their
                              > > > > > > economies in
                              > > > > > > >this new world order.
                              > > > > > > >Lets discuss bold new ideas and initiatives that can help
                              > > the
                              > > > > > > President
                              > > > > > > >lead Gabon into the 21st century.
                              > > > > > > >I love the famous quote in President John F Kennedy's
                              > > > > inauguration
                              > > > > > > speech
                              > > > > > > >when he said, "ask not what your country can do for you,
                              > > but
                              > > > > what
                              > > > > > > you can
                              > > > > > > >do for your country."
                              > > > > > > >Yes, those are just words, but words, if understood
                              > > correctly,
                              > > > > can
                              > > > > > > >inspire man to great heights.
                              > > > > > > >
                              > > > > > > >ciao,
                              > > > > > > >dupont
                              > > > > > > >
                              > > > > > > >
                              > > > > > > >
                              > > > > > > >
                              > > > > > > >
                              > > > > > > >On Mon, 18 Aug 2003 20:46:21 +0000 "C Yombi"
                              > > > > <c_yombi@...>
                              > > > > > > >writes:
                              > > > > > > > > After having lived in a small town - Leconi - with a
                              > > "Bongo
                              > > > > > > house"
                              > > > > > > > > while my
                              > > > > > > > > neighbors could hardly afford to send their children to
                              > > > > school
                              > > > > > > and
                              > > > > > > > > riding on
                              > > > > > > > > the trans-gabonese railway wondering if we were going to
                              > > end
                              > > > > up
                              > > > > > > in
                              > > > > > > > > the water
                              > > > > > > > > because of track neglect, I tend to think words are just
                              > > > > that -
                              > > > > > > > > words. Don't
                              > > > > > > > > forget that Bongo is bankrolled by the French government
                              > > in
                              > > > > > > order to
                              > > > > > > > > have
                              > > > > > > > > control over Gabon's dwendling oil wealth. Look at
                              > > Bongo's
                              > > > > bank
                              > > > > > > > > accounts and
                              > > > > > > > > then at the decaying state of Bongo University in LBV.
                              > > If
                              > > > > Bongo
                              > > > > > > is
                              > > > > > > > > such a
                              > > > > > > > > good leader, why did he feel the need to renig on his
                              > > > > promise
                              > > > > > > to
                              > > > > > > > > step down
                              > > > > > > > > in 2005 by ammending the constitution to rule forever?
                              > > Ask
                              > > > > many
                              > > > > > > > > Gabonese and
                              > > > > > > > > they would vhemently disagree with you.
                              > > > > > > > >
                              > > > > > > > >
                              > > > > > > > > >From: "dupont6" <dupont3@...>
                              > > > > > > > > >Reply-To: gabondiscussion@yahoogroups.com
                              > > > > > > > > >To: gabondiscussion@yahoogroups.com
                              > > > > > > > > >Subject: [Gabon Discussion] re: "Bongo on Terrorism"
                              > > > > > > > > >Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2003 17:51:43 -0000
                              > > > > > > > > >
                              > > > > > > > > >Hello:
                              > > > > > > > > >I think that stability in any country in Africa depends
                              > > > > more
                              > > > > > > on
                              > > > > > > > > just
                              > > > > > > > > >military troops and Presidential guards. Of course all
                              > > > > leaders
                              > > > > > > of
                              > > > > > > > > >states have serious amounts of protection, but does
                              > > that
                              > > > > > > "keep"
                              > > > > > > > > them
                              > > > > > > > > >in power? I am more interested in what Bongo has to say
                              > > > > about
                              > > > > > > the
                              > > > > > > > > >political challenges Africans have to face. I think
                              > > that it
                              > > > > is
                              > > > > > > > > >important to focus now on economic development and aid
                              > > for
                              > > > > > > African
                              > > > > > > > > >countries. I like what Bongo has to say about how the
                              > > > > marketing
                              > > > > > > of
                              > > > > > > > > >resources coming out of most African states are not
                              > > > > controlled
                              > > > > > > by
                              > > > > > > > > the
                              > > > > > > > > >states themselves but by external entities.
                              > > > > > > > > >For example, it is important to develop the
                              > > infrastructure
                              > > > > > > where
                              > > > > > > > > oil
                              > > > > > > > > >producing states are actually refining the oil that is
                              > > > > > > produced.
                              > > > > > > > > Or
                              > > > > > > > > >where companies marketing the by-products of resources
                              > > > > like
                              > > > > > > > > timber,
                              > > > > > > > > >gold and diamonds are actually based and run by
                              > > Africans
                              > > > > native
                              > > > > > > to
                              > > > > > > > > >the region where they are produced. These things are
                              > > more
                              > > > > > > > > important
                              > > > > > > > > >to the development of peoples lives than who is in
                              > > > > political
                              > > > > > > > > control
                              > > > > > > > > >or what politician has the most money stashed away. I
                              > > > > think
                              > > > > > > > > arguably
                              > > > > > > > > >that an intelligent and capable African head of state
                              > > > > deserves
                              > > > > > > to
                              > > > > > > > > >have as much money as the Queen of England or Bill
                              > > Gates
                              > > > > for
                              > > > > > > that
                              > > > > > > > > >matter. Here in America, individuals speculating in the
                              > > > > stock
                              > > > > > > > > market
                              > > > > > > > > >can amass wealth and power beyond that of a resource
                              > > rich
                              > > > > > > African
                              > > > > > > > > >country!
                              > > > > > > > > >I agree that Bongo is a better leader to his country
                              > > than
                              > > > > Bush
                              > > > > > > or
                              > > > > > > > > >Blair. His political intelligence seems to be leaps
                              > > and
                              > > > > > > bounds
                              > > > > > > > > >beyond what Bush has to offer for instance. That is why
                              > > I
                              > > > > > > think
                              > > > > > > > > that
                              > > > > > > > > >he is extremely important for Gabon and for Africa at
                              > > this
                              > > > > > > time.
                              > > > > > > > > >We have seen in America how term limits together with
                              > > the
                              > > > > > > > > influence
                              > > > > > > > > >of special interest in campaign politics has eroded the
                              > > > > quality
                              > > > > > > of
                              > > > > > > > > >leaders that are put in the positions of power. We are
                              > > > > seeing
                              > > > > > > that
                              > > > > > > > > it
                              > > > > > > > > >is the "quality" not quantity that is important when it
                              > > > > comes
                              > > > > > > to
                              > > > > > > > > >political leadership.
                              > > > > > > > > >Also, what does it say about the leadership of African
                              > > > > states
                              > > > > > > if
                              > > > > > > > > it
                              > > > > > > > > >is so easy for Chinese or any other powerful nation to
                              > > > > gain
                              > > > > > > > > economic
                              > > > > > > > > >or political control?
                              > > > > > > > > >So I support President Bongo and hope that his agenda
                              > > > > reaches
                              > > > > > > the
                              > > > > > > > > >ears of those world leaders in power who truly care
                              > > about
                              > > > > the
                              > > > > > > > > >development of the African continent. Maybe after the
                              > > > > debaucle
                              > > > > > > in
                              > > > > > > > > >Liberia, politicians(especially black leaders) here in
                              > > the
                              > > > > > > states
                              > > > > > > > > >will put more effort into understanding what economic
                              > > > > > > development
                              > > > > > > > > in
                              > > > > > > > > >Africa means to world stability.
                              > > > > > > > > >
                              > > > > > > > > >
                              > > > > > > > > >Ciao,
                              > > > > > > > > >dupont
                              > > > > > > > > >
                              > > > > > > > > >
                              > > > > > > > > >
                              > > > > > > > > >
                              > > > > > > > > >On Mon, 18 Aug 2003 02:16:49 -0000 "bobutne"
                              > > > > <bobutne@...>
                              > > > > > > > > writes:
                              > > > > > > > > >
                              > > > > > > > > > >
                              > > > > > > > > > > M'bolo dupont.
                              > > > > > > > > > >
                              > > > > > > > > > > President Omar Bongo must share (and, probably,
                              > > > > abdicate)
                              > > > > > > > > > > the "stability to Gabon" mantle with the French
                              > > (5,000
                              > > > > > > troops
                              > > > > > > > > in
                              > > > > > > > > > > Gabon and a large garrison surrounding/protecting
                              > > the
                              > > > > > > > > Presidential
                              > > > > > > > > > > palace) who have worked to assure that he is kept in
                              > > > > power.
                              > > > > > > The
                              > > > > > > > > 500
                              > > > > > > > > > >
                              > > > > > > > > > > Moroccan Presidential Guard helps, too.
                              > > > > > > > > > >
                              > > > > > > > > > > Bush and Blair are actually debasing the US and
                              > > Britain
                              > > > > > > world
                              > > > > > > > > > > hegemony by their unilateral actions. President Omar
                              > > > > Bongo
                              > > > > > > is
                              > > > > > > > > doing
                              > > > > > > > > > >
                              > > > > > > > > > > a better job for Gabon than GWB is doing for the US
                              > > and
                              > > > > > > world.
                              > > > > > > > > > >
                              > > > > > > > > > > The door to Africa is becoming closed to the West
                              > > and
                              > > > > is
                              > > > > > > being
                              > > > > > > > > left
                              > > > > > > > > > >
                              > > > > > > > > > > wide open for the Chinese to walk right in to gain
                              > > > > economic
                              > > > > > > and
                              > > > > > > > > > > political control. I could expound on this for many,
                              > > > > many
                              > > > > > > pages
                              > > > > > > > > on
                              > > > > > > > > > > here but will desist for now.
                              > > > > > > > > > >
                              > > > > > > > > > >
                              > > > > > > > > > >
                              > > > > > > > > > >
                              > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
                              > > > > > > > > > > ---------------------~-->
                              > > > > > > > > > > Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for Your HP,
                              > > Epson,
                              > > > > Canon
                              > > > > > > or
                              > > > > > > > > > > Lexmark
                              > > > > > > > > > > Printer at Myinks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or
                              > > more to
                              > > > > the
                              > > > > > > US
                              > > > > > > > > &
                              > > > > > > > > > > Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511
                              > > > > > > > > > >
                              > > > > http://us.click.yahoo.com/l.m7sD/LIdGAA/qnsNAA/JWorlB/TM
                              > > > > > > > > > >
                              > > > > > > > >
                              > > > > > >
                              > > > >
                              > > --------------------------------------------------------------------
                              > > > > > > > > >-~->
                              > > > > > > > > > >
                              > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                              > > > > > > > > > > gabondiscussion-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                              > > > > > > > > > >
                              > > > > > > > > > >
                              > > > > > > > > > >
                              > > > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                              > > > > > > > > > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                              > > > > > > > > > >
                              > > > > > > > > > >
                              > > > > > > > > > >
                              > > > > > > > > > >
                              > > > > > > > > >
                              > > > > > > > >
                              > > > > > > > >
                              > > > > > >
                              > > > >
                              > > _________________________________________________________________
                              > > > > > > > > Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months
                              > > FREE*.
                              > > > > > > > > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail
                              > > > > > > > >
                              > > > > > > > >
                              > > > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
                              > > > > > > > >
                              > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                              > > > > > > > > gabondiscussion-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                              > > > > > > > >
                              > > > > > > > >
                              > > > > > > > >
                              > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                              > > > > > > > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                              > > > > > > > >
                              > > > > > > > >
                              > > > > > > > >
                              > > > > > > > >
                              > > > > > >
                              > > > > > >
                              > > > >
                              > > _________________________________________________________________
                              > > > > > > <b>Get MSN 8</b> and help protect your children with
                              > > advanced
                              > > > > > > parental
                              > > > > > > controls. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/parental
                              > > > > > >
                              > > > > > >
                              > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
                              > > > > > >
                              > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                              > > > > > > gabondiscussion-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                              > > > > > >
                              > > > > > >
                              > > > > > >
                              > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                              > > > > > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                              > > > > > >
                              > > > > > >
                              > > > > > >
                              > > > > > >
                              > > > >
                              > > > >
                              > > _________________________________________________________________
                              > > > > Get MSN 8 and help protect your children with advanced parental
                              > > > > controls.
                              > > > > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/parental
                              > > > >
                              > > > >
                              > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
                              > > > >
                              > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                              > > > > gabondiscussion-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                              > > > >
                              > > > >
                              > > > >
                              > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                              > > > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                              > > > >
                              > > > >
                              > > > >
                              > > > >
                              > > >
                              > > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              > > >
                              > >
                              > > _________________________________________________________________
                              > > Get MSN 8 and enjoy automatic e-mail virus protection.
                              > > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus
                              > >
                              > >
                              > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
                              > >
                              > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                              > > gabondiscussion-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                              > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >

                              _________________________________________________________________
                              MSN 8: Get 6 months for $9.95/month http://join.msn.com/?page=dept/dialup
                            • dupont3@juno.com
                              Ok, so you can now attack me, but it seems like you do not even think about addressing the real issues at hand, other than to say that, the reality of life
                              Message 14 of 24 , Aug 26, 2003
                                Ok, so you can now attack me, but it seems like you do not even think
                                about addressing the real issues at hand, other than to say that, "the
                                reality of life is not ideal." I am not attacking you personally but
                                exposing what I perceive to be your lack of knowledge about what is
                                really going on and throwing that back in your face everytime you spread
                                naive innuendo about Bongo as if getting rid of him will change the lives
                                of Gabonese for the better.
                                If you get off of your Bongo inquisition then maybe you will see the
                                light and actually make some attempts to address the real challenges that
                                the Gabonese people face.
                                Now on to your response which was equally naive:
                                1. Iraq before the UN sanctions had no problem with lack of access to
                                healthcare or malnutrition of its people. Iraqis are a very intelligent
                                people
                                with some of the most capable medical professionals in the region. As an
                                oil rich trading nation they had no problem importing enough food for
                                their needs. That is until the UN choose to destroy their livelyhood for
                                the sake of what?
                                2. Yes, Bill Gates made his money in the private sector, but he has also
                                paid off many a politician to the point where he was able to elude
                                federal anti-trust prosecution. Microsoft is still under prosecution by
                                the European Union and they have already stated that he will not get away
                                with them. Any Billions that he may have donated to charitable causes is
                                most surely covered by tax breaks and in no way cover up for the aspiring
                                companies and promising technologies that he has squashed on the way to
                                world domination.
                                3.The Queen of England has no political power in England? Political power
                                lies in the support of the people and the Queen and the Monarchy enjoys
                                overwhelming support among the populace of the United Kingdom.The Queen
                                wields enormous power behind the scenes should she desire to use it.

                                Sure I am assuming that my point is the best because I strongly believe
                                in what I am talking about. I strongly believe that President Bongo is a
                                great leader who succumbs to probably what every great leader in the
                                history of the world has succumbed to.The amassing of power and wealth.
                                I will take a great and capable leader who is amassing power and wealth
                                anytime over an intellectual lightweight playing with war toys like Bush
                                or a business tyrant like Bill Gates. I also respect you differences of
                                opinion and whatever cultural bias play a part in that. But lets get real
                                about the people causing the most damage to the the fabric of democracy
                                in this world and lets not turn our backs when "the chickens come home to
                                roost."

                                Ciao,
                                dupont


                                On Tue, 26 Aug 2003 17:18:00 +0000 "C Yombi" <c_yombi@...>
                                writes:
                                > The point is that you assume you know what everybody else is doing
                                > and
                                > thinking. Before getting on your soap box, may be you should find
                                > out about
                                > the people you are accusing of collusion. You don't know me or have
                                > any
                                > information about my personal beliefs. You have no idea how I voted
                                > in the
                                > last elections or even if I am a registered voter. You know nothing
                                > about my
                                > background or my lifestyle.
                                >
                                > You bash the UN but seem to glaze over reality of life in Gabon for
                                > the
                                > majority of the population. How many children die each day in Iraq
                                > because
                                > of malnutrition and lack of access to healthcare? How many NGOs deal
                                > with
                                > the everyday care of the world's population? The reality of life is
                                > not the
                                > ideal. Often, we must choose between the lesser of two evils.
                                >
                                > No one has disputed your points about the Bush administration. You
                                > bring up
                                > billionaires like Bill Gates. He has made his money in the private
                                > sector,
                                > and he has given BILLIONS away to help with research and development
                                > of
                                > needed vaccines and HIV medications in Africa and elsewhere. The
                                > Queen of
                                > England has no political power in Great Britain and the people
                                > choose to
                                > support the royal family monetarily. Bongo on the other hand is
                                > directly
                                > responsible, just like Bush, for the policies and corruption in his
                                > country.
                                >
                                > You assume your point is the best and leave no room for the off
                                > chance that
                                > you could be wrong. In the end everyone is entitled to their own
                                > opinions,
                                > but this should be a discussion forum and not a crusade to convert
                                > those to
                                > your view of the world. There is no single correct point of view on
                                > any
                                > issue. Our own cultural biases and upbringings play a part in our
                                > understanding and interactions with those that are different than
                                > us. This
                                > is very apparent with you.
                                >
                                > (And by the way, I used to live down the road from the crook's house
                                > - I
                                > know how he lives the one day a year he chooses to reside there.)
                                >
                                >
                                > >From: dupont3@...
                                > >Reply-To: gabondiscussion@yahoogroups.com
                                > >To: gabondiscussion@yahoogroups.com
                                > >Subject: Re: [Gabon Discussion] re: "Bongo on Terrorism"
                                > >Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2003 15:51:03 -0700
                                > >
                                > >Why are you so focused on this? Like I said before, we have the
                                > similar
                                > >stuff going on here in the US. Maybe you forgot how Bush became
                                > >President. Yet, maybe you even voted for Bush or support him still.
                                > In
                                > >Bongo's case it is good for Africa that he is still in power.
                                > Meanwhile
                                > >the Bush administration has been a disaster for the democratic
                                > process.
                                > >You seem to make a lot of fuss about Bongo's accounts but I will
                                > wager
                                > >that you do not blink an eye at the accounts of the many
                                > billionares in
                                > >America who are involved in shady business deals or the politicians
                                > who
                                > >are on the payroll of them. What hypocrisy! to point a finger at
                                > Bongo
                                > >and then indirectly benefit from all the shady crap going on in the
                                > US.
                                > >Speaking of the UN, we all know how much they are in the pocket of
                                > the US
                                > >and the trouble that is causing them around the world. The last
                                > time
                                > >that I checked, the US owed them billions of dollars in back dues.
                                > Also,
                                > >how many young kids were killed in Iraq because of UN sanctions?
                                > Did you
                                > >make any noise about that? Bongo needs as much money as he can get
                                > to
                                > >just put a word in for Gabon at the table of the corrupt Western
                                > leaders.
                                > >You seem brainwashed because you blindly follow those big crooks
                                > who have
                                > >you chasing down the wrong road, when you should be driving down
                                > the road
                                > >that leads to their house.
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >Ciao,
                                > >dupont
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >On Sat, 23 Aug 2003 01:57:20 +0000 "C Yombi" <c_yombi@...>
                                > >writes:
                                > > > May be it's just you who is brainwashed... Or may be people like
                                > the
                                > > > UN are
                                > > > just making it all up.....
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > > Vol 43 Number 25 - 20 December 2002
                                > > >
                                > > > Hear those drums
                                > > >
                                > > > For want of opposition, President Bongo can plan to rule until
                                > 2012
                                > > > After three decades at the head of one of Africa's worst managed
                                > and
                                > > > most
                                > > > corrupt oil economies, President Omar Bongo might well expect
                                > some
                                > > > political
                                > > > trouble. Quite the opposite. His ruling Parti Démocratique
                                > Gabonais
                                > > > (PDG)
                                > > > will sweep the board in the local elections on 29 December and
                                > Bongo
                                > > > (health
                                > > > permitting) could win yet another seven-year presidential term
                                > in
                                > > > the
                                > > > election due in 2005. The oppositionists of the early 1990s have
                                > > > been
                                > > > exiled, crushed or coopted.
                                > > >
                                > > > Gabonese have lost interest in the perennially rigged elections.
                                > > > Turnout at
                                > > > the legislative polls last December was under 20 per cent and
                                > may be
                                > > > lower
                                > > > still in the local polls. Electoral registers have been doctored
                                > > > down to
                                > > > 523,000: there were 775,000 names on the lists for the 2001
                                > > > elections. Many
                                > > > nominal political opponents are in Bongo's pay, the rest are
                                > divided
                                > > > and
                                > > > lack national support. For wealthy Gabonese, elections are a
                                > > > patronage
                                > > > competition which shares out jobs and resources from 250,000
                                > barrels
                                > > > of oil
                                > > > a day, plus smaller timber and manganese exports.
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                >
                                >------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                -
                                > >-------
                                > > >
                                > > > Vol 42 Number 16 - 10 August 2001
                                > > >
                                > > > Hey big spender
                                > > >
                                > > > The fuss over how President El Hadj Omar Bongo came to deposit
                                > over
                                > > > US$180
                                > > > million in three private Citibank accounts in New York won't go
                                > > > away. First
                                > > > raised in United States Senate hearings in November 1999, it is
                                > now
                                > > > the
                                > > > subject of an embarrassing law suit against Bongo in the US
                                > Federal
                                > > > Court,
                                > > > Washington. Bongo's lawyers are trying to establish diplomatic
                                > > > immunity for
                                > > > him as a serving head of a state recognised by the US
                                > government.
                                > > > And with
                                > > > another US legal suit from a scrap metal company pending,
                                > Bongo's
                                > > > big-spending habits Stateside ­ he bought four Boeing passenger
                                > jets
                                > > > in June
                                > > > ­ won't win him any respite from his legal adversaries there.
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                >
                                >------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                -
                                > >-------
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                >
                                >------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                -
                                > >-------
                                > > >
                                > > > Vol 40 Number 22 - 05 November 1999
                                > > >
                                > > > Digging deeper holes
                                > > >
                                > > > A massive hole in Gabon's public finances - some say of more
                                > than
                                > > > US$350
                                > > > million - is at the heart of its growing financial and political
                                > > > crisis. By
                                > > > the end of last year, arrears to foreign creditors were
                                > estimated at
                                > > > 160
                                > > > billion CFA francs ($256.4 mn.) - and have probably doubled this
                                > > > year.
                                > > > President Omar Bongo's government also has arrears of CFA 100
                                > bn. to
                                > > > local
                                > > > banks. With an oil-fired GNP per head of $4,000, Gabon is one of
                                > > > Africa's
                                > > > wealthiest states. Yet most people live in poverty and a damning
                                > new
                                > > > report
                                > > > from the United Nations Development Programme says social
                                > services
                                > > > are
                                > > > collapsing. Tracing the missing $350 mn. preoccupies both
                                > foreign
                                > > > creditors
                                > > > and Gabonese who worry about government corruption and
                                > > > mismanagement. And
                                > > > President Bongo is no longer able to rely on Paris nor
                                > Washington to
                                > > > block
                                > > > exposure of murky areas in his government. He tried everything,
                                > > > including a
                                > > > personal call to French President Jacques Chirac, to stifle the
                                > > > inquiry by
                                > > > magistrate Eva Joly into Elf-Aquitaine's unorthodox financing
                                > > > operations.
                                > > >
                                > > > This focussed on Bongo's relationship with André Tarallo,
                                > > > Elf-Gabon's
                                > > > disgraced and ousted Président-Directeur Général. Late last
                                > month,
                                > > > Joly's
                                > > > inquiries moved on when a Swiss magistrate, Paul Parraudin,
                                > produced
                                > > > bank
                                > > > records showing that over 600 mn. French francs ($97 mn.) had
                                > been
                                > > > channelled through Tarallo's Swiss account from the Gabonese
                                > > > presidency.
                                > > > Back home, after a year of strikes, demonstrations and the
                                > payments
                                > > > crisis,
                                > > > Bongo's government needs a new deal with the International
                                > Monetary
                                > > > Fund.
                                > > > Last year, the Fund suspended its Extended Financing Facility
                                > for
                                > > > several
                                > > > reasons, including 'lack of transparency in public finance'
                                > > > (Fundspeak for
                                > > > corruption). Libreville's negotiating team is led by respected
                                > > > Finance
                                > > > Minister Emile Doumba, who has been trying, with limited
                                > success, to
                                > > >
                                > > > persuade his ministerial colleagues and the presidency to
                                > implement
                                > > > an
                                > > > IMF-inspired austerity programme.
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                >
                                >------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                -
                                >
                                >-----------------------------------------------------------------------F
                                r
                                > >eedom
                                > > >
                                > > > in the World 1998-99: Gabon
                                > > > Freedom House Survey 1999
                                > > > Economy: Capitalist (highly corrupt)
                                > > > Population: 1,200,000
                                > > > PPP: $3,766
                                > > > Life Expectancy: 54
                                > > > Ethnic Groups: Fang, Eshira, Bapounou, Bateke, other Bantu,
                                > other
                                > > > Africans,
                                > > > Europeans
                                > > > Polity: Dominant party
                                > > > Capital: Libreville
                                > > > Political Rights: 5
                                > > > Civil Liberties: 4
                                > > > Status: Partly Free
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > > Overview
                                > > > In December, President Omar Bongo was returned to office for a
                                > > > seven-year
                                > > > term. The polling, which was partially boycotted by the
                                > opposition,
                                > > > was
                                > > > marked by serious irregularities. The nominally independent
                                > National
                                > > >
                                > > > Election Commission, which was created under the new
                                > constitution
                                > > > approved
                                > > > by referendum in 1995, proved neither autonomous nor competent.
                                > > > Behind a
                                > > > facade of democratic institutions, Bongo used patronage,
                                > > > manipulation, and
                                > > > intimidation to retain power. In Libreville in May, student
                                > riots
                                > > > prompted
                                > > > by deteriorating economic conditions were quickly suppressed. At
                                > > > least ten
                                > > > students were seriously hurt. Three decades of autocratic rule
                                > have
                                > > > made
                                > > > Bongo among the world's richest men and left the vast majority
                                > of
                                > > > oil-rich
                                > > > Gabon's 1.4 million people mired in poverty. Bongo is strongly
                                > > > backed by the
                                > > > army and by France. The highly profitable French ELF oil company
                                > > > plays a
                                > > > dominant role in the country's economic and political life.
                                > > >
                                > > > Straddling the equator on central Africa's west coast, Gabon
                                > gained
                                > > > independence from France in 1960. Bongo, whom France raised from
                                > > > soldier to
                                > > > president in 1967, completed his predecessor's consolidation of
                                > > > power by
                                > > > officially outlawing the opposition. France, which maintains 600
                                > > > marines in
                                > > > Gabon, has intervened twice to preserve Bongo's regime. In 1990,
                                > > > protests
                                > > > prompted by economic duress forced Bongo to accept a conference
                                > that
                                > > >
                                > > > opposition leaders hoped would promote a peaceful democratic
                                > > > transition.
                                > > > Bongo retained power, however, in rigged 1993 elections that
                                > sparked
                                > > > violent
                                > > > protests and repression led by his Presidential Guard. The 1994
                                > > > Paris
                                > > > Accords claimed to institute true democratic reforms. Municipal
                                > > > elections in
                                > > > 1996 saw major opposition gains, including the election of Paul
                                > Mba
                                > > > Abbesole, the leader of the largest opposition party, as mayor
                                > of
                                > > > Libreville. Legislative polls delayed by decree until December
                                > 1996
                                > > > were
                                > > > again beset by fraud as Bongo's Gabon Democratic Party won an
                                > > > overwhelming,
                                > > > but unconvincing victory.
                                > > >
                                > > > Political Rights and Civil Liberties
                                > > > Despite a gradual political opening since 1990, Gabon's citizens
                                > > > have never
                                > > > been able to exercise their constitutional right to change their
                                > > > government
                                > > > democratically. Bongo's 1998 electoral victory with 61 percent
                                > of
                                > > > the vote
                                > > > followed a campaign that made profligate use of state resources
                                > and
                                > > > state
                                > > > media to promote his incumbency. Legislative elections have also
                                > > > been
                                > > > seriously flawed.
                                > > >
                                > > > State institutions are influenced or controlled by Bongo and a
                                > small
                                > > > elite
                                > > > around him. The judiciary suffers from political interference.
                                > > > Rights to
                                > > > legal counsel and public criminal trials are generally
                                > respected,
                                > > > but the
                                > > > law presumes guilt. Judges may deliver summary verdicts, and
                                > torture
                                > > > remains
                                > > > a standard route to produce confessions. Prison conditions are
                                > > > marked by
                                > > > beatings and insufficient food, water, and medical care. The
                                > > > government
                                > > > often detains refugees without charge, and there are reports of
                                > > > forced labor
                                > > > by detainees. Rights of assembly and association are
                                > > > constitutionally
                                > > > guaranteed, but permits required for public gatherings are
                                > sometimes
                                > > >
                                > > > refused. Freedom to form and join political parties is generally
                                > > > respected,
                                > > > but civil servants may face harassment based on their
                                > associations.
                                > > > Nongovernmental organizations operate openly, although the
                                > Gabonese
                                > > > League
                                > > > of Human Rights has reported threats and harassment.
                                > > >
                                > > > A government daily and approximately one dozen private weeklies,
                                > > > which are
                                > > > primarily controlled by opposition parties, are published. The
                                > > > government
                                > > > overwhelmingly dominates the broadcast media, which reach a far
                                > > > larger
                                > > > audience. Only a few private broadcasters have been licensed,
                                > and
                                > > > their
                                > > > viability is tenuous. A 1998 crackdown on private media has
                                > raised
                                > > > serious
                                > > > concerns for free expression. In February, Radio Soleil, which
                                > was
                                > > > associated with the main Bucherons opposition party, was closed.
                                > In
                                > > > January,
                                > > > a cartoonist was sentenced to six months imprisonment for
                                > lampooning
                                > > > Bongo.
                                > > > Publication of his newspaper was suspended for one month. The
                                > > > president of
                                > > > the journalists' union was jailed for eight months. In August,
                                > the
                                > > > opposition newspaper La Griffe was closed, and three of its
                                > staff
                                > > > received
                                > > > eight-month suspended sentences after publishing allegations of
                                > > > ivory
                                > > > smuggling by the national airline. Soldiers raided La Griffe
                                > offices
                                > > > and
                                > > > seized equipment. Foreign newspapers, magazines, and broadcasts
                                > are
                                > > > usually
                                > > > widely available, but editions criticizing Bongo have been
                                > seized.
                                > > >
                                > > > Most of the small formal sector work force is unionized,
                                > although
                                > > > unions
                                > > > must register with the government in order to be officially
                                > > > recognized.
                                > > > Despite legal protections, the government has taken action
                                > against
                                > > > numerous
                                > > > strikers and unions and used force to suppress illegal
                                > > > demonstrations. While
                                > > > no legal restrictions on travel exist, harassment on political
                                > and
                                > > > ethnic
                                > > > bases has been reported. Religious freedom is constitutionally
                                > > > guaranteed
                                > > > and respected. An official ban on Jehovah's Witnesses is not
                                > > > enforced.
                                > > >
                                > > > Legal protections for women include equal access laws for
                                > education,
                                > > >
                                > > > business, and investment. In addition to owning property and
                                > > > businesses,
                                > > > women constitute more than 50 percent of the salaried workforce
                                > in
                                > > > the
                                > > > health and trade sectors. At the same time, there are only six
                                > women
                                > > > in the
                                > > > 120-member National Assembly and one woman in the cabinet. Women
                                > > > continue to
                                > > > face legal and cultural discrimination, particularly in rural
                                > areas,
                                > > > and are
                                > > > reportedly subject to widespread domestic violence.
                                > > >
                                > > > Little wealth from Gabon's oil revenues reaches the broad
                                > populace,
                                > > > most of
                                > > > which is engaged in subsistence farming. Corruption is endemic.
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > > >From: dupont3@...
                                > > > >Reply-To: gabondiscussion@yahoogroups.com
                                > > > >To: gabondiscussion@yahoogroups.com
                                > > > >Subject: Re: [Gabon Discussion] re: "Bongo on Terrorism"
                                > > > >Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2003 20:18:18 -0700
                                > > > >
                                > > > >Whoever would say that the Gabonese are worse off now than
                                > > > independence
                                > > > >must be brainwashed or does not know a damm thing about how it
                                > was
                                > > > like
                                > > > >to reorganize institutions after a being under a colonial
                                > power.
                                > > > Also,
                                > > > >what a disrespect to all the people who worked hard for an
                                > > > independent
                                > > > >and for 40 yrs. stable Gabon.
                                > > > >To go on criticizing the government without coming up with any
                                > > > >convincing alternative ideas other than conspiracy theories and
                                > > > rumour is
                                > > > >with all due respect, disingenuous and insensitive poppycock.
                                > > > >
                                > > > >Ciao,
                                > > > >dupont
                                > > > >
                                > > > >
                                > > > >
                                > > > >
                                > > > >On Thu, 21 Aug 2003 20:31:32 +0000 "C Yombi"
                                > <c_yombi@...>
                                > > > >writes:
                                > > > > > Obvious point - Bongo has had almost 40 yrs to make a
                                > difference
                                > > > and
                                > > > > > the
                                > > > > > Gabonese are worse off now than at independence - bad track
                                > > > record.
                                > > > > > If you
                                > > > > > think elections were fair and square then you do not agree
                                > with
                                > > > > > independent
                                > > > > > election observers form around the world. In the end, it is >
                                not
                                > > > what
                                > > > > > I want
                                > > > > > for Gabon - but what the GABONESE want for themselves - my
                                > > > husband
                                > > > > > included
                                > > > > > who is from Gabon.
                                > > > > >
                                > > > > >
                                > > > > > >From: dupont3@...
                                > > > > > >Reply-To: gabondiscussion@yahoogroups.com
                                > > > > > >To: gabondiscussion@yahoogroups.com
                                > > > > > >Subject: Re: [Gabon Discussion] re: "Bongo on Terrorism"
                                > > > > > >Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 12:59:19 -0700
                                > > > > > >
                                > > > > > >Yes, I have seen how the some Gabonese people live. I have
                                > been
                                > > > to
                                > > > > > poorly
                                > > > > > >supplied hospitals and schools. I have seen what you
                                > consider
                                > > > to be
                                > > > > > the
                                > > > > > >obvious hypocrisy.
                                > > > > > >But I know that here in America the lifestyle of many poor
                                > > > people
                                > > > > > is no
                                > > > > > >different. It is just on a different scale. Most poor
                                > people
                                > > > here
                                > > > > > in the
                                > > > > > >US do not have health insurance. While rich people spend
                                > money
                                > > > > > lavishly
                                > > > > > >in the midst of a lot of pain and suffering. Homeless
                                > people
                                > > > abound
                                > > > > > on
                                > > > > > >the streets and our political system although 2 party,
                                > > > > > disenfranchises
                                > > > > > >many potentially great opponents. It is like. "been there
                                > done
                                > > > > > that" when
                                > > > > > >you try to focus on that type of stuff when talking about a
                                > > > > > nations
                                > > > > > >development in a capitalist system. Maybe a socialist
                                > system
                                > > > like
                                > > > > > in
                                > > > > > >Cuba would better achieve what you want in Gabon.
                                > > > > > >I think that a healthy dose of idealism is what it takes to
                                > > > jump
                                > > > > > start
                                > > > > > >any successful capitalist economy. There is nothing wrong
                                > with
                                > > > a
                                > > > > > healthy
                                > > > > > >dose of idealism, in fact, one can argue that idealistic
                                > values
                                > > > are
                                > > > > > the
                                > > > > > >foundations of a healthy democracy. The hard part is
                                > getting
                                > > > people
                                > > > > > to
                                > > > > > >believe in the face of the harsh realities of capitalism.
                                > > > > > >Now to say that a majority of people do not support
                                > President
                                > > > Bongo
                                > > > > > is
                                > > > > > >not true. He has won elections fair and square, for all
                                > > > that's
                                > > > > > worth
                                > > > > > >and beyond that is the most capable person for the job. The
                                > man
                                > > > is
                                > > > > > a
                                > > > > > >national treasure! Why would you want him out?
                                > > > > > >If you can not work with leaders like President Bongo then
                                > you
                                > > > are
                                > > > > > not
                                > > > > > >being realistic about facing the challenges of such
                                > > > underdeveloped
                                > > > > > >nations in Africa.You might be afraid to deal with the hard
                                > > > issues
                                > > > > > and
                                > > > > > >instead choose to focus on the stuff that makes good soap
                                > > > opera.
                                > > > > > >I say lets look at the big picture when it comes to world
                                > > > poverty.
                                > > > > > Step
                                > > > > > >back and look at this picture and you will see that the
                                > > > difference
                                > > > > > points
                                > > > > > >to the policies of the so-called first world nations and
                                > not
                                > > > that
                                > > > > > of a
                                > > > > > >few seemingly wealthy(and well meaning) leaders who are
                                > still
                                > > > poor
                                > > > > > in
                                > > > > > >comparison.
                                > > > > > >
                                > > > > > >Ciao,
                                > > > > > >dupont
                                > > > > > >
                                > > > > > >
                                > > > > > >On Tue, 19 Aug 2003 19:36:16 +0000 "C Yombi"
                                > > > <c_yombi@...>
                                > > > > > >writes:
                                > > > > > > > With all due respect,
                                > > > > > > > You have visited Gabon but have you lived on the
                                > people's
                                > > > > > level?
                                > > > > > > > Have you
                                > > > > > > > seen all of the largess that Bongo has spread to only
                                > > > > > his"friends"?
                                > > > > > > > Have you
                                > > > > > > > seen the prisons and the schools? Have you seen all of
                                > the
                                > > > > > obvious
                                > > > > > > > hypocrisy? Do you realize that Bongo only repaired the
                                > > > national
                                > > > > > > > train
                                > > > > > > > service so he could send his fleet of expensive cars to
                                > > > > > Franceville
                                > > > > > > > for his
                                > > > > > > > annual vacation? How many Gabonese can take a vacation
                                > to
                                > > > the
                                > > > > > > > capital
                                > > > > > > > annually? Any nation that has to rely on Peace Corps to
                                > > > > > distribute
                                > > > > > > > condoms
                                > > > > > > > while trucks get to every corner distributing soft
                                > drinks
                                > > > has a
                                > > > > > > > problem and
                                > > > > > > > it starts with the government.
                                > > > > > > >
                                > > > > > > > Also, when a majority of the population does not support
                                > the
                                > > > > > > > president and
                                > > > > > > > had little or no voice to change this, is this a great
                                > > > > > democracy?
                                > > > > > > > Another
                                > > > > > > > principle of the United State's founding fathers was
                                > freedom
                                > > > of
                                > > > > > > > choice. Have
                                > > > > > > > you ever heard of Neo-colonialism?
                                > > > > > > >
                                > > > > > > > How can individuals work toward supporting their
                                > governments
                                > > > > > and
                                > > > > > > > country if
                                > > > > > > > the government is taking food out of their mouths and
                                > > > spending
                                > > > > > it on
                                > > > > > > > lavish
                                > > > > > > > trips to Paris? Have you been to rural health clinics
                                > where
                                > > > > > women
                                > > > > > > > struggle
                                > > > > > > > to keep their children healthy or talked to primary
                                > school
                                > > > > > students
                                > > > > > > > who have
                                > > > > > > > no teachers? May be a less idealistic and more realistic
                                > > > > > approach to
                                > > > > > > > the
                                > > > > > > > reality of one party governments in Africa would be a
                                > better
                                > > > > > > > approach.
                                > > > > > > >
                                > > > > > > > Carol
                                > > > > > > >
                                > > > > > > >
                                > > > > > > >
                                > > > > > > > >From: dupont3@...
                                > > > > > > > >Reply-To: gabondiscussion@yahoogroups.com
                                > > > > > > > >To: gabondiscussion@yahoogroups.com
                                > > > > > > > >Subject: Re: [Gabon Discussion] re: "Bongo on
                                > Terrorism"
                                > > > > > > > >Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2003 10:05:13 -0700
                                > > > > > > > >
                                > > > > > > > >Well , with all due respect, I think that concentrating
                                > on
                                > > > > > Bongo's
                                > > > > > > > bank
                                > > > > > > > >account will get you nowhere.
                                > > > > > > > >Ever thought about working with the President to solve
                                > some
                                > > > of
                                > > > > > the
                                > > > > > > > >nations problems?
                                > > > > > > > >Here in America we have many of the same problems and
                                > this
                                > > > is
                                > > > > > the
                                > > > > > > > >wealthiest country in the world!
                                > > > > > > > >We have an epidemic of homeless people, decaying
                                > schools
                                > > > in
                                > > > > > inner
                                > > > > > > > cities
                                > > > > > > > >and a railroad(Amtrak) that cannot get its thing
                                > together.
                                > > > We
                                > > > > > are
                                > > > > > > > >spending 4 Billion dollars a month in Iraq at a time
                                > when
                                > > > our
                                > > > > > > > schools
                                > > > > > > > >need books.
                                > > > > > > > >I would also like to ask how is it that having
                                > President
                                > > > Bongo
                                > > > > > step
                                > > > > > > > down
                                > > > > > > > >be good for Gabon or change the current situation for
                                > the
                                > > > > > better?
                                > > > > > > > >I have been to Gabon and it seems like the country is
                                > > > dependent
                                > > > > > on
                                > > > > > > > the
                                > > > > > > > >French for many things. If the French were to leave
                                > would
                                > > > it
                                > > > > > make
                                > > > > > > > >anything better? I think not, it would not make
                                > anything
                                > > > > > better
                                > > > > > > > and
                                > > > > > > > >getting rid of President Bongo would probably
                                > destabilize
                                > > > the
                                > > > > > > > country and
                                > > > > > > > >the region has the resulting power grab would be like
                                > going
                                > > > > > back in
                                > > > > > > > time.
                                > > > > > > > >I think that it is a shame that many Africans seem to
                                > think
                                > > > > > more
                                > > > > > > > about
                                > > > > > > > >fighting for power than the issues important for
                                > developing
                                > > > > > their
                                > > > > > > > >country.
                                > > > > > > > >It is time to look beyond forced power sharing as a
                                > > > solution.
                                > > > > > In
                                > > > > > > > Gabon
                                > > > > > > > >each citizen must first make an effort to support the
                                > > > state.
                                > > > > > Only
                                > > > > > > > then
                                > > > > > > > >will you find the necessary energy to tackle major
                                > > > issues.The
                                > > > > > > > founding
                                > > > > > > > >fathers of the US went by a decree "United We Stand
                                > Divided
                                > > > We
                                > > > > > > > Fall"
                                > > > > > > > >Every nation that aspires to economic success must
                                > first
                                > > > find
                                > > > > > a
                                > > > > > > > common
                                > > > > > > > >ground to stand on.
                                > > > > > > > >The Gabonese are a beautiful and special people and
                                > sure,
                                > > > there
                                > > > > > are
                                > > > > > > > many
                                > > > > > > > >who disagree with the President. But there are also
                                > many
                                > > > who
                                > > > > > do
                                > > > > > > > not
                                > > > > > > > >understand what a great leader that they have in Bongo.
                                > > > Many
                                > > > > > who do
                                > > > > > > > not
                                > > > > > > > >understand the complete geopolitical challenge that not
                                > > > only
                                > > > > > > > Africans,
                                > > > > > > > >but most 3rd world nations face when trying to develop
                                > > > their
                                > > > > > > > economies in
                                > > > > > > > >this new world order.
                                > > > > > > > >Lets discuss bold new ideas and initiatives that can
                                > help
                                > > > the
                                > > > > > > > President
                                > > > > > > > >lead Gabon into the 21st century.
                                > > > > > > > >I love the famous quote in President John F Kennedy's
                                > > > > > inauguration
                                > > > > > > > speech
                                > > > > > > > >when he said, "ask not what your country can do for
                                > you,
                                > > > but
                                > > > > > what
                                > > > > > > > you can
                                > > > > > > > >do for your country."
                                > > > > > > > >Yes, those are just words, but words, if understood
                                > > > correctly,
                                > > > > > can
                                > > > > > > > >inspire man to great heights.
                                > > > > > > > >
                                > > > > > > > >ciao,
                                > > > > > > > >dupont
                                > > > > > > > >
                                > > > > > > > >
                                > > > > > > > >
                                > > > > > > > >
                                > > > > > > > >
                                > > > > > > > >On Mon, 18 Aug 2003 20:46:21 +0000 "C Yombi"
                                > > > > > <c_yombi@...>
                                > > > > > > > >writes:
                                > > > > > > > > > After having lived in a small town - Leconi - with a
                                > > > "Bongo
                                > > > > > > > house"
                                > > > > > > > > > while my
                                > > > > > > > > > neighbors could hardly afford to send their children
                                > to
                                > > > > > school
                                > > > > > > > and
                                > > > > > > > > > riding on
                                > > > > > > > > > the trans-gabonese railway wondering if we were
                                > going to
                                > > > end
                                > > > > > up
                                > > > > > > > in
                                > > > > > > > > > the water
                                > > > > > > > > > because of track neglect, I tend to think words are
                                > just
                                > > > > > that -
                                > > > > > > > > > words. Don't
                                > > > > > > > > > forget that Bongo is bankrolled by the French
                                > government
                                > > > in
                                > > > > > > > order to
                                > > > > > > > > > have
                                > > > > > > > > > control over Gabon's dwendling oil wealth. Look at
                                > > > Bongo's
                                > > > > > bank
                                > > > > > > > > > accounts and
                                > > > > > > > > > then at the decaying state of Bongo University in
                                > LBV.
                                > > > If
                                > > > > > Bongo
                                > > > > > > > is
                                > > > > > > > > > such a
                                > > > > > > > > > good leader, why did he feel the need to renig on
                                > his
                                > > > > > promise
                                > > > > > > > to
                                > > > > > > > > > step down
                                > > > > > > > > > in 2005 by ammending the constitution to rule
                                > forever?
                                > > > Ask
                                > > > > > many
                                > > > > > > > > > Gabonese and
                                > > > > > > > > > they would vhemently disagree with you.
                                > > > > > > > > >
                                > > > > > > > > >
                                > > > > > > > > > >From: "dupont6" <dupont3@...>
                                > > > > > > > > > >Reply-To: gabondiscussion@yahoogroups.com
                                > > > > > > > > > >To: gabondiscussion@yahoogroups.com
                                > > > > > > > > > >Subject: [Gabon Discussion] re: "Bongo on
                                > Terrorism"
                                > > > > > > > > > >Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2003 17:51:43 -0000
                                > > > > > > > > > >
                                > > > > > > > > > >Hello:
                                > > > > > > > > > >I think that stability in any country in Africa
                                > depends
                                > > > > > more
                                > > > > > > > on
                                > > > > > > > > > just
                                > > > > > > > > > >military troops and Presidential guards. Of course
                                > all
                                > > > > > leaders
                                > > > > > > > of
                                > > > > > > > > > >states have serious amounts of protection, but does
                                > > > that
                                > > > > > > > "keep"
                                > > > > > > > > > them
                                > > > > > > > > > >in power? I am more interested in what Bongo has to
                                > say
                                > > > > > about
                                > > > > > > > the
                                > > > > > > > > > >political challenges Africans have to face. I think
                                > > > that it
                                > > > > > is
                                > > > > > > > > > >important to focus now on economic development and
                                > aid
                                > > > for
                                > > > > > > > African
                                > > > > > > > > > >countries. I like what Bongo has to say about how
                                > the
                                > > > > > marketing
                                > > > > > > > of
                                > > > > > > > > > >resources coming out of most African states are not
                                > > > > > controlled
                                > > > > > > > by
                                > > > > > > > > > the
                                > > > > > > > > > >states themselves but by external entities.
                                > > > > > > > > > >For example, it is important to develop the
                                > > > infrastructure
                                > > > > > > > where
                                > > > > > > > > > oil
                                > > > > > > > > > >producing states are actually refining the oil that
                                > is
                                > > > > > > > produced.
                                > > > > > > > > > Or
                                > > > > > > > > > >where companies marketing the by-products of
                                > resources
                                > > > > > like
                                > > > > > > > > > timber,
                                > > > > > > > > > >gold and diamonds are actually based and run by
                                > > > Africans
                                > > > > > native
                                > > > > > > > to
                                > > > > > > > > > >the region where they are produced. These things
                                > are
                                > > > more
                                > > > > > > > > > important
                                > > > > > > > > > >to the development of peoples lives than who is in
                                > > > > > political
                                > > > > > > > > > control
                                > > > > > > > > > >or what politician has the most money stashed away.
                                > I
                                > > > > > think
                                > > > > > > > > > arguably
                                > > > > > > > > > >that an intelligent and capable African head of
                                > state
                                > > > > > deserves
                                > > > > > > > to
                                > > > > > > > > > >have as much money as the Queen of England or Bill
                                > > > Gates
                                > > > > > for
                                > > > > > > > that
                                > > > > > > > > > >matter. Here in America, individuals speculating in
                                > the
                                > > > > > stock
                                > > > > > > > > > market
                                > > > > > > > > > >can amass wealth and power beyond that of a
                                > resource
                                > > > rich
                                > > > > > > > African
                                > > > > > > > > > >country!
                                > > > > > > > > > >I agree that Bongo is a better leader to his
                                > country
                                > > > than
                                > > > > > Bush
                                > > > > > > > or
                                > > > > > > > > > >Blair. His political intelligence seems to be
                                > leaps
                                > > > and
                                > > > > > > > bounds
                                > > > > > > > > > >beyond what Bush has to offer for instance. That is
                                > why
                                > > > I
                                > > > > > > > think
                                > > > > > > > > > that
                                > > > > > > > > > >he is extremely important for Gabon and for Africa
                                > at
                                > > > this
                                > > > > > > > time.
                                > > > > > > > > > >We have seen in America how term limits together
                                > with
                                > > > the
                                > > > > > > > > > influence
                                > > > > > > > > > >of special interest in campaign politics has eroded
                                > the
                                > > > > > quality
                                > > > > > > > of
                                > > > > > > > > > >leaders that are put in the positions of power. We
                                > are
                                > > > > > seeing
                                > > > > > > > that
                                > > > > > > > > > it
                                > > > > > > > > > >is the "quality" not quantity that is important
                                > when it
                                > > > > > comes
                                > > > > > > > to
                                > > > > > > > > > >political leadership.
                                > > > > > > > > > >Also, what does it say about the leadership of
                                > African
                                > > > > > states
                                > > > > > > > if
                                > > > > > > > > > it
                                > > > > > > > > > >is so easy for Chinese or any other powerful
                                > nation to
                                > > > > > gain
                                > > > > > > > > > economic
                                > > > > > > > > > >or political control?
                                > > > > > > > > > >So I support President Bongo and hope that his
                                > agenda
                                > > > > > reaches
                                > > > > > > > the
                                > > > > > > > > > >ears of those world leaders in power who truly
                                > care
                                > > > about
                                > > > > > the
                                > > > > > > > > > >development of the African continent. Maybe after
                                > the
                                > > > > > debaucle
                                > > > > > > > in
                                > > > > > > > > > >Liberia, politicians(especially black leaders) here
                                > in
                                > > > the
                                > > > > > > > states
                                > > > > > > > > > >will put more effort into understanding what
                                > economic
                                > > > > > > > development
                                > > > > > > > > > in
                                > > > > > > > > > >Africa means to world stability.
                                > > > > > > > > > >
                                > > > > > > > > > >
                                > > > > > > > > > >Ciao,
                                > > > > > > > > > >dupont
                                > > > > > > > > > >
                                > > > > > > > > > >
                                > > > > > > > > > >
                                > > > > > > > > > >
                                > > > > > > > > > >On Mon, 18 Aug 2003 02:16:49 -0000 "bobutne"
                                > > > > > <bobutne@...>
                                > > > > > > > > > writes:
                                > > > > > > > > > >
                                > > > > > > > > > > >
                                > > > > > > > > > > > M'bolo dupont.
                                > > > > > > > > > > >
                                > > > > > > > > > > > President Omar Bongo must share (and, probably,
                                > > > > > abdicate)
                                > > > > > > > > > > > the "stability to Gabon" mantle with the French
                                > > > (5,000
                                > > > > > > > troops
                                > > > > > > > > > in
                                > > > > > > > > > > > Gabon and a large garrison
                                > surrounding/protecting
                                > > > the
                                > > > > > > > > > Presidential
                                > > > > > > > > > > > palace) who have worked to assure that he is
                                > kept in
                                > > > > > power.
                                > > > > > > > The
                                > > > > > > > > > 500
                                > > > > > > > > > > >
                                > > > > > > > > > > > Moroccan Presidential Guard helps, too.
                                > > > > > > > > > > >
                                > > > > > > > > > > > Bush and Blair are actually debasing the US and
                                > > > Britain
                                > > > > > > > world
                                > > > > > > > > > > > hegemony by their unilateral actions. President
                                > Omar
                                > > > > > Bongo
                                > > > > > > > is
                                > > > > > > > > > doing
                                > > > > > > > > > > >
                                > > > > > > > > > > > a better job for Gabon than GWB is doing for the
                                > US
                                > > > and
                                > > > > > > > world.
                                > > > > > > > > > > >
                                > > > > > > > > > > > The door to Africa is becoming closed to the
                                > West
                                > > > and
                                > > > > > is
                                > > > > > > > being
                                > > > > > > > > > left
                                > > > > > > > > > > >
                                > > > > > > > > > > > wide open for the Chinese to walk right in to
                                > gain
                                > > > > > economic
                                > > > > > > > and
                                > > > > > > > > > > > political control. I could expound on this for
                                > many,
                                > > > > > many
                                > > > > > > > pages
                                > > > > > > > > > on
                                > > > > > > > > > > > here but will desist for now.
                                > > > > > > > > > > >
                                > > > > > > > > > > >
                                > > > > > > > > > > >
                                > > > > > > > > > > >
                                > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
                                > > > > > > > > > > > ---------------------~-->
                                > > > > > > > > > > > Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for Your HP,
                                > > > Epson,
                                > > > > > Canon
                                > > > > > > > or
                                > > > > > > > > > > > Lexmark
                                > > > > > > > > > > > Printer at Myinks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or
                                > > > more to
                                > > > > > the
                                > > > > > > > US
                                > > > > > > > > > &
                                > > > > > > > > > > > Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511
                                > > > > > > > > > > >
                                > > > > > http://us.click.yahoo.com/l.m7sD/LIdGAA/qnsNAA/JWorlB/TM
                                > > > > > > > > > > >
                                > > > > > > > > >
                                > > > > > > >
                                > > > > >
                                > > >
                                > --------------------------------------------------------------------
                                > > > > > > > > > >-~->
                                > > > > > > > > > > >
                                > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email
                                > to:
                                > > > > > > > > > > > gabondiscussion-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                > > > > > > > > > > >
                                > > > > > > > > > > >
                                > > > > > > > > > > >
                                > > > > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                                > > > > > > > > > > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                                > > > > > > > > > > >
                                > > > > > > > > > > >
                                > > > > > > > > > > >
                                > > > > > > > > > > >
                                > > > > > > > > > >
                                > > > > > > > > >
                                > > > > > > > > >
                                > > > > > > >
                                > > > > >
                                > > >
                                > _________________________________________________________________
                                > > > > > > > > > Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months
                                > > > FREE*.
                                > > > > > > > > > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail
                                > > > > > > > > >
                                > > > > > > > > >
                                > > > > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
                                > > > > > > > > >
                                > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                > > > > > > > > > gabondiscussion-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                > > > > > > > > >
                                > > > > > > > > >
                                > > > > > > > > >
                                > > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                                > > > > > > > > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                                > > > > > > > > >
                                > > > > > > > > >
                                > > > > > > > > >
                                > > > > > > > > >
                                > > > > > > >
                                > > > > > > >
                                > > > > >
                                > > >
                                > _________________________________________________________________
                                > > > > > > > <b>Get MSN 8</b> and help protect your children with
                                > > > advanced
                                > > > > > > > parental
                                > > > > > > > controls. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/parental
                                > > > > > > >
                                > > > > > > >
                                > > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
                                > > > > > > >
                                > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                > > > > > > > gabondiscussion-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                > > > > > > >
                                > > > > > > >
                                > > > > > > >
                                > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                                > > > > > > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                                > > > > > > >
                                > > > > > > >
                                > > > > > > >
                                > > > > > > >
                                > > > > >
                                > > > > >
                                > > >
                                > _________________________________________________________________
                                > > > > > Get MSN 8 and help protect your children with advanced
                                > parental
                                > > > > > controls.
                                > > > > > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/parental
                                > > > > >
                                > > > > >
                                > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
                                > > > > >
                                > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                > > > > > gabondiscussion-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                > > > > >
                                > > > > >
                                > > > > >
                                > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                                > > > > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                                > > > > >
                                > > > > >
                                > > > > >
                                > > > > >
                                > > > >
                                > > > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                > > > >
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > _________________________________________________________________
                                > > > Get MSN 8 and enjoy automatic e-mail virus protection.
                                > > > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
                                > > >
                                > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                > > > gabondiscussion-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                                > > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                >
                                > _________________________________________________________________
                                > MSN 8: Get 6 months for $9.95/month
                                > http://join.msn.com/?page=dept/dialup
                                >
                                >
                                > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
                                >
                                > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                > gabondiscussion-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                                > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                              • bobutne
                                I strongly believe that President Bongo is a great leader.. Please explain why you strongly believe President Omar Bongo is a great leader. ... think ...
                                Message 15 of 24 , Aug 26, 2003
                                  "I strongly believe that President Bongo is a great leader.."

                                  Please explain why you strongly believe President Omar Bongo is a
                                  great leader.





                                  --- In gabondiscussion@yahoogroups.com, dupont3@j... wrote:
                                  > Ok, so you can now attack me, but it seems like you do not even
                                  think
                                  > about addressing the real issues at hand, other than to say
                                  that, "the
                                  > reality of life is not ideal." I am not attacking you personally
                                  but
                                  > exposing what I perceive to be your lack of knowledge about what is
                                  > really going on and throwing that back in your face everytime you
                                  spread
                                  > naive innuendo about Bongo as if getting rid of him will change
                                  the lives
                                  > of Gabonese for the better.
                                  > If you get off of your Bongo inquisition then maybe you will see
                                  the
                                  > light and actually make some attempts to address the real
                                  challenges that
                                  > the Gabonese people face.
                                  > Now on to your response which was equally naive:
                                  > 1. Iraq before the UN sanctions had no problem with lack of access
                                  to
                                  > healthcare or malnutrition of its people. Iraqis are a very
                                  intelligent
                                  > people
                                  > with some of the most capable medical professionals in the region.
                                  As an
                                  > oil rich trading nation they had no problem importing enough food
                                  for
                                  > their needs. That is until the UN choose to destroy their
                                  livelyhood for
                                  > the sake of what?
                                  > 2. Yes, Bill Gates made his money in the private sector, but he
                                  has also
                                  > paid off many a politician to the point where he was able to elude
                                  > federal anti-trust prosecution. Microsoft is still under
                                  prosecution by
                                  > the European Union and they have already stated that he will not
                                  get away
                                  > with them. Any Billions that he may have donated to charitable
                                  causes is
                                  > most surely covered by tax breaks and in no way cover up for the
                                  aspiring
                                  > companies and promising technologies that he has squashed on the
                                  way to
                                  > world domination.
                                  > 3.The Queen of England has no political power in England?
                                  Political power
                                  > lies in the support of the people and the Queen and the Monarchy
                                  enjoys
                                  > overwhelming support among the populace of the United Kingdom.The
                                  Queen
                                  > wields enormous power behind the scenes should she desire to use
                                  it.
                                  >
                                  > Sure I am assuming that my point is the best because I strongly
                                  believe
                                  > in what I am talking about. I strongly believe that President
                                  Bongo is a
                                  > great leader who succumbs to probably what every great leader in
                                  the
                                  > history of the world has succumbed to.The amassing of power and
                                  wealth.
                                  > I will take a great and capable leader who is amassing power and
                                  wealth
                                  > anytime over an intellectual lightweight playing with war toys
                                  like Bush
                                  > or a business tyrant like Bill Gates. I also respect you
                                  differences of
                                  > opinion and whatever cultural bias play a part in that. But lets
                                  get real
                                  > about the people causing the most damage to the the fabric of
                                  democracy
                                  > in this world and lets not turn our backs when "the chickens come
                                  home to
                                  > roost."
                                  >
                                  > Ciao,
                                  > dupont
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > On Tue, 26 Aug 2003 17:18:00 +0000 "C Yombi" <c_yombi@h...>
                                  > writes:
                                  > > The point is that you assume you know what everybody else is
                                  doing
                                  > > and
                                  > > thinking. Before getting on your soap box, may be you should
                                  find
                                  > > out about
                                  > > the people you are accusing of collusion. You don't know me or
                                  have
                                  > > any
                                  > > information about my personal beliefs. You have no idea how I
                                  voted
                                  > > in the
                                  > > last elections or even if I am a registered voter. You know
                                  nothing
                                  > > about my
                                  > > background or my lifestyle.
                                  > >
                                  > > You bash the UN but seem to glaze over reality of life in Gabon
                                  for
                                  > > the
                                  > > majority of the population. How many children die each day in
                                  Iraq
                                  > > because
                                  > > of malnutrition and lack of access to healthcare? How many NGOs
                                  deal
                                  > > with
                                  > > the everyday care of the world's population? The reality of life
                                  is
                                  > > not the
                                  > > ideal. Often, we must choose between the lesser of two evils.
                                  > >
                                  > > No one has disputed your points about the Bush administration.
                                  You
                                  > > bring up
                                  > > billionaires like Bill Gates. He has made his money in the
                                  private
                                  > > sector,
                                  > > and he has given BILLIONS away to help with research and
                                  development
                                  > > of
                                  > > needed vaccines and HIV medications in Africa and elsewhere. The
                                  > > Queen of
                                  > > England has no political power in Great Britain and the people
                                  > > choose to
                                  > > support the royal family monetarily. Bongo on the other hand is
                                  > > directly
                                  > > responsible, just like Bush, for the policies and corruption in
                                  his
                                  > > country.
                                  > >
                                  > > You assume your point is the best and leave no room for the off
                                  > > chance that
                                  > > you could be wrong. In the end everyone is entitled to their own
                                  > > opinions,
                                  > > but this should be a discussion forum and not a crusade to
                                  convert
                                  > > those to
                                  > > your view of the world. There is no single correct point of view
                                  on
                                  > > any
                                  > > issue. Our own cultural biases and upbringings play a part in
                                  our
                                  > > understanding and interactions with those that are different
                                  than
                                  > > us. This
                                  > > is very apparent with you.
                                  > >
                                  > > (And by the way, I used to live down the road from the crook's
                                  house
                                  > > - I
                                  > > know how he lives the one day a year he chooses to reside there.)
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > > >From: dupont3@j...
                                  > > >Reply-To: gabondiscussion@yahoogroups.com
                                  > > >To: gabondiscussion@yahoogroups.com
                                  > > >Subject: Re: [Gabon Discussion] re: "Bongo on Terrorism"
                                  > > >Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2003 15:51:03 -0700
                                  > > >
                                  > > >Why are you so focused on this? Like I said before, we have the
                                  > > similar
                                  > > >stuff going on here in the US. Maybe you forgot how Bush became
                                  > > >President. Yet, maybe you even voted for Bush or support him
                                  still.
                                  > > In
                                  > > >Bongo's case it is good for Africa that he is still in power.
                                  > > Meanwhile
                                  > > >the Bush administration has been a disaster for the democratic
                                  > > process.
                                  > > >You seem to make a lot of fuss about Bongo's accounts but I
                                  will
                                  > > wager
                                  > > >that you do not blink an eye at the accounts of the many
                                  > > billionares in
                                  > > >America who are involved in shady business deals or the
                                  politicians
                                  > > who
                                  > > >are on the payroll of them. What hypocrisy! to point a finger
                                  at
                                  > > Bongo
                                  > > >and then indirectly benefit from all the shady crap going on in
                                  the
                                  > > US.
                                  > > >Speaking of the UN, we all know how much they are in the pocket
                                  of
                                  > > the US
                                  > > >and the trouble that is causing them around the world. The
                                  last
                                  > > time
                                  > > >that I checked, the US owed them billions of dollars in back
                                  dues.
                                  > > Also,
                                  > > >how many young kids were killed in Iraq because of UN
                                  sanctions?
                                  > > Did you
                                  > > >make any noise about that? Bongo needs as much money as he can
                                  get
                                  > > to
                                  > > >just put a word in for Gabon at the table of the corrupt
                                  Western
                                  > > leaders.
                                  > > >You seem brainwashed because you blindly follow those big
                                  crooks
                                  > > who have
                                  > > >you chasing down the wrong road, when you should be driving
                                  down
                                  > > the road
                                  > > >that leads to their house.
                                  > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > > >Ciao,
                                  > > >dupont
                                  > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > > >On Sat, 23 Aug 2003 01:57:20 +0000 "C Yombi" <c_yombi@h...>
                                  > > >writes:
                                  > > > > May be it's just you who is brainwashed... Or may be people
                                  like
                                  > > the
                                  > > > > UN are
                                  > > > > just making it all up.....
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > Vol 43 Number 25 - 20 December 2002
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > Hear those drums
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > For want of opposition, President Bongo can plan to rule
                                  until
                                  > > 2012
                                  > > > > After three decades at the head of one of Africa's worst
                                  managed
                                  > > and
                                  > > > > most
                                  > > > > corrupt oil economies, President Omar Bongo might well
                                  expect
                                  > > some
                                  > > > > political
                                  > > > > trouble. Quite the opposite. His ruling Parti Démocratique
                                  > > Gabonais
                                  > > > > (PDG)
                                  > > > > will sweep the board in the local elections on 29 December
                                  and
                                  > > Bongo
                                  > > > > (health
                                  > > > > permitting) could win yet another seven-year presidential
                                  term
                                  > > in
                                  > > > > the
                                  > > > > election due in 2005. The oppositionists of the early 1990s
                                  have
                                  > > > > been
                                  > > > > exiled, crushed or coopted.
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > Gabonese have lost interest in the perennially rigged
                                  elections.
                                  > > > > Turnout at
                                  > > > > the legislative polls last December was under 20 per cent
                                  and
                                  > > may be
                                  > > > > lower
                                  > > > > still in the local polls. Electoral registers have been
                                  doctored
                                  > > > > down to
                                  > > > > 523,000: there were 775,000 names on the lists for the 2001
                                  > > > > elections. Many
                                  > > > > nominal political opponents are in Bongo's pay, the rest are
                                  > > divided
                                  > > > > and
                                  > > > > lack national support. For wealthy Gabonese, elections are a
                                  > > > > patronage
                                  > > > > competition which shares out jobs and resources from 250,000
                                  > > barrels
                                  > > > > of oil
                                  > > > > a day, plus smaller timber and manganese exports.
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > >
                                  > >
                                  > >------------------------------------------------------------------
                                  ------
                                  > -
                                  > > >-------
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > Vol 42 Number 16 - 10 August 2001
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > Hey big spender
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > The fuss over how President El Hadj Omar Bongo came to
                                  deposit
                                  > > over
                                  > > > > US$180
                                  > > > > million in three private Citibank accounts in New York won't
                                  go
                                  > > > > away. First
                                  > > > > raised in United States Senate hearings in November 1999, it
                                  is
                                  > > now
                                  > > > > the
                                  > > > > subject of an embarrassing law suit against Bongo in the US
                                  > > Federal
                                  > > > > Court,
                                  > > > > Washington. Bongo's lawyers are trying to establish
                                  diplomatic
                                  > > > > immunity for
                                  > > > > him as a serving head of a state recognised by the US
                                  > > government.
                                  > > > > And with
                                  > > > > another US legal suit from a scrap metal company pending,
                                  > > Bongo's
                                  > > > > big-spending habits Stateside ­ he bought four Boeing
                                  passenger
                                  > > jets
                                  > > > > in June
                                  > > > > ­ won't win him any respite from his legal adversaries there.
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > >
                                  > >
                                  > >------------------------------------------------------------------
                                  ------
                                  > -
                                  > > >-------
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > >
                                  > >
                                  > >------------------------------------------------------------------
                                  ------
                                  > -
                                  > > >-------
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > Vol 40 Number 22 - 05 November 1999
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > Digging deeper holes
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > A massive hole in Gabon's public finances - some say of more
                                  > > than
                                  > > > > US$350
                                  > > > > million - is at the heart of its growing financial and
                                  political
                                  > > > > crisis. By
                                  > > > > the end of last year, arrears to foreign creditors were
                                  > > estimated at
                                  > > > > 160
                                  > > > > billion CFA francs ($256.4 mn.) - and have probably doubled
                                  this
                                  > > > > year.
                                  > > > > President Omar Bongo's government also has arrears of CFA
                                  100
                                  > > bn. to
                                  > > > > local
                                  > > > > banks. With an oil-fired GNP per head of $4,000, Gabon is
                                  one of
                                  > > > > Africa's
                                  > > > > wealthiest states. Yet most people live in poverty and a
                                  damning
                                  > > new
                                  > > > > report
                                  > > > > from the United Nations Development Programme says social
                                  > > services
                                  > > > > are
                                  > > > > collapsing. Tracing the missing $350 mn. preoccupies both
                                  > > foreign
                                  > > > > creditors
                                  > > > > and Gabonese who worry about government corruption and
                                  > > > > mismanagement. And
                                  > > > > President Bongo is no longer able to rely on Paris nor
                                  > > Washington to
                                  > > > > block
                                  > > > > exposure of murky areas in his government. He tried
                                  everything,
                                  > > > > including a
                                  > > > > personal call to French President Jacques Chirac, to stifle
                                  the
                                  > > > > inquiry by
                                  > > > > magistrate Eva Joly into Elf-Aquitaine's unorthodox financing
                                  > > > > operations.
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > This focussed on Bongo's relationship with André Tarallo,
                                  > > > > Elf-Gabon's
                                  > > > > disgraced and ousted Président-Directeur Général. Late last
                                  > > month,
                                  > > > > Joly's
                                  > > > > inquiries moved on when a Swiss magistrate, Paul Parraudin,
                                  > > produced
                                  > > > > bank
                                  > > > > records showing that over 600 mn. French francs ($97 mn.)
                                  had
                                  > > been
                                  > > > > channelled through Tarallo's Swiss account from the Gabonese
                                  > > > > presidency.
                                  > > > > Back home, after a year of strikes, demonstrations and the
                                  > > payments
                                  > > > > crisis,
                                  > > > > Bongo's government needs a new deal with the International
                                  > > Monetary
                                  > > > > Fund.
                                  > > > > Last year, the Fund suspended its Extended Financing
                                  Facility
                                  > > for
                                  > > > > several
                                  > > > > reasons, including 'lack of transparency in public finance'
                                  > > > > (Fundspeak for
                                  > > > > corruption). Libreville's negotiating team is led by
                                  respected
                                  > > > > Finance
                                  > > > > Minister Emile Doumba, who has been trying, with limited
                                  > > success, to
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > persuade his ministerial colleagues and the presidency to
                                  > > implement
                                  > > > > an
                                  > > > > IMF-inspired austerity programme.
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > >
                                  > >
                                  > >------------------------------------------------------------------
                                  ------
                                  > -
                                  > >
                                  > >------------------------------------------------------------------
                                  -----F
                                  > r
                                  > > >eedom
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > in the World 1998-99: Gabon
                                  > > > > Freedom House Survey 1999
                                  > > > > Economy: Capitalist (highly corrupt)
                                  > > > > Population: 1,200,000
                                  > > > > PPP: $3,766
                                  > > > > Life Expectancy: 54
                                  > > > > Ethnic Groups: Fang, Eshira, Bapounou, Bateke, other Bantu,
                                  > > other
                                  > > > > Africans,
                                  > > > > Europeans
                                  > > > > Polity: Dominant party
                                  > > > > Capital: Libreville
                                  > > > > Political Rights: 5
                                  > > > > Civil Liberties: 4
                                  > > > > Status: Partly Free
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > Overview
                                  > > > > In December, President Omar Bongo was returned to office for
                                  a
                                  > > > > seven-year
                                  > > > > term. The polling, which was partially boycotted by the
                                  > > opposition,
                                  > > > > was
                                  > > > > marked by serious irregularities. The nominally independent
                                  > > National
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > Election Commission, which was created under the new
                                  > > constitution
                                  > > > > approved
                                  > > > > by referendum in 1995, proved neither autonomous nor
                                  competent.
                                  > > > > Behind a
                                  > > > > facade of democratic institutions, Bongo used patronage,
                                  > > > > manipulation, and
                                  > > > > intimidation to retain power. In Libreville in May, student
                                  > > riots
                                  > > > > prompted
                                  > > > > by deteriorating economic conditions were quickly
                                  suppressed. At
                                  > > > > least ten
                                  > > > > students were seriously hurt. Three decades of autocratic
                                  rule
                                  > > have
                                  > > > > made
                                  > > > > Bongo among the world's richest men and left the vast
                                  majority
                                  > > of
                                  > > > > oil-rich
                                  > > > > Gabon's 1.4 million people mired in poverty. Bongo is
                                  strongly
                                  > > > > backed by the
                                  > > > > army and by France. The highly profitable French ELF oil
                                  company
                                  > > > > plays a
                                  > > > > dominant role in the country's economic and political life.
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > Straddling the equator on central Africa's west coast, Gabon
                                  > > gained
                                  > > > > independence from France in 1960. Bongo, whom France raised
                                  from
                                  > > > > soldier to
                                  > > > > president in 1967, completed his predecessor's consolidation
                                  of
                                  > > > > power by
                                  > > > > officially outlawing the opposition. France, which maintains
                                  600
                                  > > > > marines in
                                  > > > > Gabon, has intervened twice to preserve Bongo's regime. In
                                  1990,
                                  > > > > protests
                                  > > > > prompted by economic duress forced Bongo to accept a
                                  conference
                                  > > that
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > opposition leaders hoped would promote a peaceful democratic
                                  > > > > transition.
                                  > > > > Bongo retained power, however, in rigged 1993 elections that
                                  > > sparked
                                  > > > > violent
                                  > > > > protests and repression led by his Presidential Guard. The
                                  1994
                                  > > > > Paris
                                  > > > > Accords claimed to institute true democratic reforms.
                                  Municipal
                                  > > > > elections in
                                  > > > > 1996 saw major opposition gains, including the election of
                                  Paul
                                  > > Mba
                                  > > > > Abbesole, the leader of the largest opposition party, as
                                  mayor
                                  > > of
                                  > > > > Libreville. Legislative polls delayed by decree until
                                  December
                                  > > 1996
                                  > > > > were
                                  > > > > again beset by fraud as Bongo's Gabon Democratic Party won an
                                  > > > > overwhelming,
                                  > > > > but unconvincing victory.
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > Political Rights and Civil Liberties
                                  > > > > Despite a gradual political opening since 1990, Gabon's
                                  citizens
                                  > > > > have never
                                  > > > > been able to exercise their constitutional right to change
                                  their
                                  > > > > government
                                  > > > > democratically. Bongo's 1998 electoral victory with 61
                                  percent
                                  > > of
                                  > > > > the vote
                                  > > > > followed a campaign that made profligate use of state
                                  resources
                                  > > and
                                  > > > > state
                                  > > > > media to promote his incumbency. Legislative elections have
                                  also
                                  > > > > been
                                  > > > > seriously flawed.
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > State institutions are influenced or controlled by Bongo and
                                  a
                                  > > small
                                  > > > > elite
                                  > > > > around him. The judiciary suffers from political
                                  interference.
                                  > > > > Rights to
                                  > > > > legal counsel and public criminal trials are generally
                                  > > respected,
                                  > > > > but the
                                  > > > > law presumes guilt. Judges may deliver summary verdicts, and
                                  > > torture
                                  > > > > remains
                                  > > > > a standard route to produce confessions. Prison conditions
                                  are
                                  > > > > marked by
                                  > > > > beatings and insufficient food, water, and medical care. The
                                  > > > > government
                                  > > > > often detains refugees without charge, and there are reports
                                  of
                                  > > > > forced labor
                                  > > > > by detainees. Rights of assembly and association are
                                  > > > > constitutionally
                                  > > > > guaranteed, but permits required for public gatherings are
                                  > > sometimes
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > refused. Freedom to form and join political parties is
                                  generally
                                  > > > > respected,
                                  > > > > but civil servants may face harassment based on their
                                  > > associations.
                                  > > > > Nongovernmental organizations operate openly, although the
                                  > > Gabonese
                                  > > > > League
                                  > > > > of Human Rights has reported threats and harassment.
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > A government daily and approximately one dozen private
                                  weeklies,
                                  > > > > which are
                                  > > > > primarily controlled by opposition parties, are published.
                                  The
                                  > > > > government
                                  > > > > overwhelmingly dominates the broadcast media, which reach a
                                  far
                                  > > > > larger
                                  > > > > audience. Only a few private broadcasters have been
                                  licensed,
                                  > > and
                                  > > > > their
                                  > > > > viability is tenuous. A 1998 crackdown on private media has
                                  > > raised
                                  > > > > serious
                                  > > > > concerns for free expression. In February, Radio Soleil,
                                  which
                                  > > was
                                  > > > > associated with the main Bucherons opposition party, was
                                  closed.
                                  > > In
                                  > > > > January,
                                  > > > > a cartoonist was sentenced to six months imprisonment for
                                  > > lampooning
                                  > > > > Bongo.
                                  > > > > Publication of his newspaper was suspended for one month. The
                                  > > > > president of
                                  > > > > the journalists' union was jailed for eight months. In
                                  August,
                                  > > the
                                  > > > > opposition newspaper La Griffe was closed, and three of its
                                  > > staff
                                  > > > > received
                                  > > > > eight-month suspended sentences after publishing allegations
                                  of
                                  > > > > ivory
                                  > > > > smuggling by the national airline. Soldiers raided La Griffe
                                  > > offices
                                  > > > > and
                                  > > > > seized equipment. Foreign newspapers, magazines, and
                                  broadcasts
                                  > > are
                                  > > > > usually
                                  > > > > widely available, but editions criticizing Bongo have been
                                  > > seized.
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > Most of the small formal sector work force is unionized,
                                  > > although
                                  > > > > unions
                                  > > > > must register with the government in order to be officially
                                  > > > > recognized.
                                  > > > > Despite legal protections, the government has taken action
                                  > > against
                                  > > > > numerous
                                  > > > > strikers and unions and used force to suppress illegal
                                  > > > > demonstrations. While
                                  > > > > no legal restrictions on travel exist, harassment on
                                  political
                                  > > and
                                  > > > > ethnic
                                  > > > > bases has been reported. Religious freedom is
                                  constitutionally
                                  > > > > guaranteed
                                  > > > > and respected. An official ban on Jehovah's Witnesses is not
                                  > > > > enforced.
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > Legal protections for women include equal access laws for
                                  > > education,
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > business, and investment. In addition to owning property and
                                  > > > > businesses,
                                  > > > > women constitute more than 50 percent of the salaried
                                  workforce
                                  > > in
                                  > > > > the
                                  > > > > health and trade sectors. At the same time, there are only
                                  six
                                  > > women
                                  > > > > in the
                                  > > > > 120-member National Assembly and one woman in the cabinet.
                                  Women
                                  > > > > continue to
                                  > > > > face legal and cultural discrimination, particularly in
                                  rural
                                  > > areas,
                                  > > > > and are
                                  > > > > reportedly subject to widespread domestic violence.
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > Little wealth from Gabon's oil revenues reaches the broad
                                  > > populace,
                                  > > > > most of
                                  > > > > which is engaged in subsistence farming. Corruption is
                                  endemic.
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > >From: dupont3@j...
                                  > > > > >Reply-To: gabondiscussion@yahoogroups.com
                                  > > > > >To: gabondiscussion@yahoogroups.com
                                  > > > > >Subject: Re: [Gabon Discussion] re: "Bongo on Terrorism"
                                  > > > > >Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2003 20:18:18 -0700
                                  > > > > >
                                  > > > > >Whoever would say that the Gabonese are worse off now than
                                  > > > > independence
                                  > > > > >must be brainwashed or does not know a damm thing about how
                                  it
                                  > > was
                                  > > > > like
                                  > > > > >to reorganize institutions after a being under a colonial
                                  > > power.
                                  > > > > Also,
                                  > > > > >what a disrespect to all the people who worked hard for an
                                  > > > > independent
                                  > > > > >and for 40 yrs. stable Gabon.
                                  > > > > >To go on criticizing the government without coming up with
                                  any
                                  > > > > >convincing alternative ideas other than conspiracy theories
                                  and
                                  > > > > rumour is
                                  > > > > >with all due respect, disingenuous and insensitive
                                  poppycock.
                                  > > > > >
                                  > > > > >Ciao,
                                  > > > > >dupont
                                  > > > > >
                                  > > > > >
                                  > > > > >
                                  > > > > >
                                  > > > > >On Thu, 21 Aug 2003 20:31:32 +0000 "C Yombi"
                                  > > <c_yombi@h...>
                                  > > > > >writes:
                                  > > > > > > Obvious point - Bongo has had almost 40 yrs to make a
                                  > > difference
                                  > > > > and
                                  > > > > > > the
                                  > > > > > > Gabonese are worse off now than at independence - bad
                                  track
                                  > > > > record.
                                  > > > > > > If you
                                  > > > > > > think elections were fair and square then you do not
                                  agree
                                  > > with
                                  > > > > > > independent
                                  > > > > > > election observers form around the world. In the end, it
                                  is >
                                  > not
                                  > > > > what
                                  > > > > > > I want
                                  > > > > > > for Gabon - but what the GABONESE want for themselves -
                                  my
                                  > > > > husband
                                  > > > > > > included
                                  > > > > > > who is from Gabon.
                                  > > > > > >
                                  > > > > > >
                                  > > > > > > >From: dupont3@j...
                                  > > > > > > >Reply-To: gabondiscussion@yahoogroups.com
                                  > > > > > > >To: gabondiscussion@yahoogroups.com
                                  > > > > > > >Subject: Re: [Gabon Discussion] re: "Bongo on Terrorism"
                                  > > > > > > >Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 12:59:19 -0700
                                  > > > > > > >
                                  > > > > > > >Yes, I have seen how the some Gabonese people live. I
                                  have
                                  > > been
                                  > > > > to
                                  > > > > > > poorly
                                  > > > > > > >supplied hospitals and schools. I have seen what you
                                  > > consider
                                  > > > > to be
                                  > > > > > > the
                                  > > > > > > >obvious hypocrisy.
                                  > > > > > > >But I know that here in America the lifestyle of many
                                  poor
                                  > > > > people
                                  > > > > > > is no
                                  > > > > > > >different. It is just on a different scale. Most poor
                                  > > people
                                  > > > > here
                                  > > > > > > in the
                                  > > > > > > >US do not have health insurance. While rich people
                                  spend
                                  > > money
                                  > > > > > > lavishly
                                  > > > > > > >in the midst of a lot of pain and suffering. Homeless
                                  > > people
                                  > > > > abound
                                  > > > > > > on
                                  > > > > > > >the streets and our political system although 2 party,
                                  > > > > > > disenfranchises
                                  > > > > > > >many potentially great opponents. It is like. "been
                                  there
                                  > > done
                                  > > > > > > that" when
                                  > > > > > > >you try to focus on that type of stuff when talking
                                  about a
                                  > > > > > > nations
                                  > > > > > > >development in a capitalist system. Maybe a socialist
                                  > > system
                                  > > > > like
                                  > > > > > > in
                                  > > > > > > >Cuba would better achieve what you want in Gabon.
                                  > > > > > > >I think that a healthy dose of idealism is what it
                                  takes to
                                  > > > > jump
                                  > > > > > > start
                                  > > > > > > >any successful capitalist economy. There is nothing
                                  wrong
                                  > > with
                                  > > > > a
                                  > > > > > > healthy
                                  > > > > > > >dose of idealism, in fact, one can argue that
                                  idealistic
                                  > > values
                                  > > > > are
                                  > > > > > > the
                                  > > > > > > >foundations of a healthy democracy. The hard part is
                                  > > getting
                                  > > > > people
                                  > > > > > > to
                                  > > > > > > >believe in the face of the harsh realities of
                                  capitalism.
                                  > > > > > > >Now to say that a majority of people do not support
                                  > > President
                                  > > > > Bongo
                                  > > > > > > is
                                  > > > > > > >not true. He has won elections fair and square, for
                                  all
                                  > > > > that's
                                  > > > > > > worth
                                  > > > > > > >and beyond that is the most capable person for the job.
                                  The
                                  > > man
                                  > > > > is
                                  > > > > > > a
                                  > > > > > > >national treasure! Why would you want him out?
                                  > > > > > > >If you can not work with leaders like President Bongo
                                  then
                                  > > you
                                  > > > > are
                                  > > > > > > not
                                  > > > > > > >being realistic about facing the challenges of such
                                  > > > > underdeveloped
                                  > > > > > > >nations in Africa.You might be afraid to deal with the
                                  hard
                                  > > > > issues
                                  > > > > > > and
                                  > > > > > > >instead choose to focus on the stuff that makes good
                                  soap
                                  > > > > opera.
                                  > > > > > > >I say lets look at the big picture when it comes to
                                  world
                                  > > > > poverty.
                                  > > > > > > Step
                                  > > > > > > >back and look at this picture and you will see that the
                                  > > > > difference
                                  > > > > > > points
                                  > > > > > > >to the policies of the so-called first world nations
                                  and
                                  > > not
                                  > > > > that
                                  > > > > > > of a
                                  > > > > > > >few seemingly wealthy(and well meaning) leaders who are
                                  > > still
                                  > > > > poor
                                  > > > > > > in
                                  > > > > > > >comparison.
                                  > > > > > > >
                                  > > > > > > >Ciao,
                                  > > > > > > >dupont
                                  > > > > > > >
                                  > > > > > > >
                                  > > > > > > >On Tue, 19 Aug 2003 19:36:16 +0000 "C Yombi"
                                  > > > > <c_yombi@h...>
                                  > > > > > > >writes:
                                  > > > > > > > > With all due respect,
                                  > > > > > > > > You have visited Gabon but have you lived on the
                                  > > people's
                                  > > > > > > level?
                                  > > > > > > > > Have you
                                  > > > > > > > > seen all of the largess that Bongo has spread to only
                                  > > > > > > his"friends"?
                                  > > > > > > > > Have you
                                  > > > > > > > > seen the prisons and the schools? Have you seen all
                                  of
                                  > > the
                                  > > > > > > obvious
                                  > > > > > > > > hypocrisy? Do you realize that Bongo only repaired
                                  the
                                  > > > > national
                                  > > > > > > > > train
                                  > > > > > > > > service so he could send his fleet of expensive cars
                                  to
                                  > > > > > > Franceville
                                  > > > > > > > > for his
                                  > > > > > > > > annual vacation? How many Gabonese can take a
                                  vacation
                                  > > to
                                  > > > > the
                                  > > > > > > > > capital
                                  > > > > > > > > annually? Any nation that has to rely on Peace Corps
                                  to
                                  > > > > > > distribute
                                  > > > > > > > > condoms
                                  > > > > > > > > while trucks get to every corner distributing soft
                                  > > drinks
                                  > > > > has a
                                  > > > > > > > > problem and
                                  > > > > > > > > it starts with the government.
                                  > > > > > > > >
                                  > > > > > > > > Also, when a majority of the population does not
                                  support
                                  > > the
                                  > > > > > > > > president and
                                  > > > > > > > > had little or no voice to change this, is this a
                                  great
                                  > > > > > > democracy?
                                  > > > > > > > > Another
                                  > > > > > > > > principle of the United State's founding fathers was
                                  > > freedom
                                  > > > > of
                                  > > > > > > > > choice. Have
                                  > > > > > > > > you ever heard of Neo-colonialism?
                                  > > > > > > > >
                                  > > > > > > > > How can individuals work toward supporting their
                                  > > governments
                                  > > > > > > and
                                  > > > > > > > > country if
                                  > > > > > > > > the government is taking food out of their mouths and
                                  > > > > spending
                                  > > > > > > it on
                                  > > > > > > > > lavish
                                  > > > > > > > > trips to Paris? Have you been to rural health
                                  clinics
                                  > > where
                                  > > > > > > women
                                  > > > > > > > > struggle
                                  > > > > > > > > to keep their children healthy or talked to primary
                                  > > school
                                  > > > > > > students
                                  > > > > > > > > who have
                                  > > > > > > > > no teachers? May be a less idealistic and more
                                  realistic
                                  > > > > > > approach to
                                  > > > > > > > > the
                                  > > > > > > > > reality of one party governments in Africa would be
                                  a
                                  > > better
                                  > > > > > > > > approach.
                                  > > > > > > > >
                                  > > > > > > > > Carol
                                  > > > > > > > >
                                  > > > > > > > >
                                  > > > > > > > >
                                  > > > > > > > > >From: dupont3@j...
                                  > > > > > > > > >Reply-To: gabondiscussion@yahoogroups.com
                                  > > > > > > > > >To: gabondiscussion@yahoogroups.com
                                  > > > > > > > > >Subject: Re: [Gabon Discussion] re: "Bongo on
                                  > > Terrorism"
                                  > > > > > > > > >Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2003 10:05:13 -0700
                                  > > > > > > > > >
                                  > > > > > > > > >Well , with all due respect, I think that
                                  concentrating
                                  > > on
                                  > > > > > > Bongo's
                                  > > > > > > > > bank
                                  > > > > > > > > >account will get you nowhere.
                                  > > > > > > > > >Ever thought about working with the President to
                                  solve
                                  > > some
                                  > > > > of
                                  > > > > > > the
                                  > > > > > > > > >nations problems?
                                  > > > > > > > > >Here in America we have many of the same problems
                                  and
                                  > > this
                                  > > > > is
                                  > > > > > > the
                                  > > > > > > > > >wealthiest country in the world!
                                  > > > > > > > > >We have an epidemic of homeless people, decaying
                                  > > schools
                                  > > > > in
                                  > > > > > > inner
                                  > > > > > > > > cities
                                  > > > > > > > > >and a railroad(Amtrak) that cannot get its thing
                                  > > together.
                                  > > > > We
                                  > > > > > > are
                                  > > > > > > > > >spending 4 Billion dollars a month in Iraq at a
                                  time
                                  > > when
                                  > > > > our
                                  > > > > > > > > schools
                                  > > > > > > > > >need books.
                                  > > > > > > > > >I would also like to ask how is it that having
                                  > > President
                                  > > > > Bongo
                                  > > > > > > step
                                  > > > > > > > > down
                                  > > > > > > > > >be good for Gabon or change the current situation
                                  for
                                  > > the
                                  > > > > > > better?
                                  > > > > > > > > >I have been to Gabon and it seems like the country
                                  is
                                  > > > > dependent
                                  > > > > > > on
                                  > > > > > > > > the
                                  > > > > > > > > >French for many things. If the French were to leave
                                  > > would
                                  > > > > it
                                  > > > > > > make
                                  > > > > > > > > >anything better? I think not, it would not make
                                  > > anything
                                  > > > > > > better
                                  > > > > > > > > and
                                  > > > > > > > > >getting rid of President Bongo would probably
                                  > > destabilize
                                  > > > > the
                                  > > > > > > > > country and
                                  > > > > > > > > >the region has the resulting power grab would be
                                  like
                                  > > going
                                  > > > > > > back in
                                  > > > > > > > > time.
                                  > > > > > > > > >I think that it is a shame that many Africans seem
                                  to
                                  > > think
                                  > > > > > > more
                                  > > > > > > > > about
                                  > > > > > > > > >fighting for power than the issues important for
                                  > > developing
                                  > > > > > > their
                                  > > > > > > > > >country.
                                  > > > > > > > > >It is time to look beyond forced power sharing as a
                                  > > > > solution.
                                  > > > > > > In
                                  > > > > > > > > Gabon
                                  > > > > > > > > >each citizen must first make an effort to support
                                  the
                                  > > > > state.
                                  > > > > > > Only
                                  > > > > > > > > then
                                  > > > > > > > > >will you find the necessary energy to tackle major
                                  > > > > issues.The
                                  > > > > > > > > founding
                                  > > > > > > > > >fathers of the US went by a decree "United We Stand
                                  > > Divided
                                  > > > > We
                                  > > > > > > > > Fall"
                                  > > > > > > > > >Every nation that aspires to economic success must
                                  > > first
                                  > > > > find
                                  > > > > > > a
                                  > > > > > > > > common
                                  > > > > > > > > >ground to stand on.
                                  > > > > > > > > >The Gabonese are a beautiful and special people and
                                  > > sure,
                                  > > > > there
                                  > > > > > > are
                                  > > > > > > > > many
                                  > > > > > > > > >who disagree with the President. But there are also
                                  > > many
                                  > > > > who
                                  > > > > > > do
                                  > > > > > > > > not
                                  > > > > > > > > >understand what a great leader that they have in
                                  Bongo.
                                  > > > > Many
                                  > > > > > > who do
                                  > > > > > > > > not
                                  > > > > > > > > >understand the complete geopolitical challenge that
                                  not
                                  > > > > only
                                  > > > > > > > > Africans,
                                  > > > > > > > > >but most 3rd world nations face when trying to
                                  develop
                                  > > > > their
                                  > > > > > > > > economies in
                                  > > > > > > > > >this new world order.
                                  > > > > > > > > >Lets discuss bold new ideas and initiatives that
                                  can
                                  > > help
                                  > > > > the
                                  > > > > > > > > President
                                  > > > > > > > > >lead Gabon into the 21st century.
                                  > > > > > > > > >I love the famous quote in President John F
                                  Kennedy's
                                  > > > > > > inauguration
                                  > > > > > > > > speech
                                  > > > > > > > > >when he said, "ask not what your country can do for
                                  > > you,
                                  > > > > but
                                  > > > > > > what
                                  > > > > > > > > you can
                                  > > > > > > > > >do for your country."
                                  > > > > > > > > >Yes, those are just words, but words, if understood
                                  > > > > correctly,
                                  > > > > > > can
                                  > > > > > > > > >inspire man to great heights.
                                  > > > > > > > > >
                                  > > > > > > > > >ciao,
                                  > > > > > > > > >dupont
                                  > > > > > > > > >
                                  > > > > > > > > >
                                  > > > > > > > > >
                                  > > > > > > > > >
                                  > > > > > > > > >
                                  > > > > > > > > >On Mon, 18 Aug 2003 20:46:21 +0000 "C Yombi"
                                  > > > > > > <c_yombi@h...>
                                  > > > > > > > > >writes:
                                  > > > > > > > > > > After having lived in a small town - Leconi -
                                  with a
                                  > > > > "Bongo
                                  > > > > > > > > house"
                                  > > > > > > > > > > while my
                                  > > > > > > > > > > neighbors could hardly afford to send their
                                  children
                                  > > to
                                  > > > > > > school
                                  > > > > > > > > and
                                  > > > > > > > > > > riding on
                                  > > > > > > > > > > the trans-gabonese railway wondering if we were
                                  > > going to
                                  > > > > end
                                  > > > > > > up
                                  > > > > > > > > in
                                  > > > > > > > > > > the water
                                  > > > > > > > > > > because of track neglect, I tend to think words
                                  are
                                  > > just
                                  > > > > > > that -
                                  > > > > > > > > > > words. Don't
                                  > > > > > > > > > > forget that Bongo is bankrolled by the French
                                  > > government
                                  > > > > in
                                  > > > > > > > > order to
                                  > > > > > > > > > > have
                                  > > > > > > > > > > control over Gabon's dwendling oil wealth. Look
                                  at
                                  > > > > Bongo's
                                  > > > > > > bank
                                  > > > > > > > > > > accounts and
                                  > > > > > > > > > > then at the decaying state of Bongo University
                                  in
                                  > > LBV.
                                  > > > > If
                                  > > > > > > Bongo
                                  > > > > > > > > is
                                  > > > > > > > > > > such a
                                  > > > > > > > > > > good leader, why did he feel the need to renig
                                  on
                                  > > his
                                  > > > > > > promise
                                  > > > > > > > > to
                                  > > > > > > > > > > step down
                                  > > > > > > > > > > in 2005 by ammending the constitution to rule
                                  > > forever?
                                  > > > > Ask
                                  > > > > > > many
                                  > > > > > > > > > > Gabonese and
                                  > > > > > > > > > > they would vhemently disagree with you.
                                  > > > > > > > > > >
                                  > > > > > > > > > >
                                  > > > > > > > > > > >From: "dupont6" <dupont3@j...>
                                  > > > > > > > > > > >Reply-To: gabondiscussion@yahoogroups.com
                                  > > > > > > > > > > >To: gabondiscussion@yahoogroups.com
                                  > > > > > > > > > > >Subject: [Gabon Discussion] re: "Bongo on
                                  > > Terrorism"
                                  > > > > > > > > > > >Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2003 17:51:43 -0000
                                  > > > > > > > > > > >
                                  > > > > > > > > > > >Hello:
                                  > > > > > > > > > > >I think that stability in any country in Africa
                                  > > depends
                                  > > > > > > more
                                  > > > > > > > > on
                                  > > > > > > > > > > just
                                  > > > > > > > > > > >military troops and Presidential guards. Of
                                  course
                                  > > all
                                  > > > > > > leaders
                                  > > > > > > > > of
                                  > > > > > > > > > > >states have serious amounts of protection, but
                                  does
                                  > > > > that
                                  > > > > > > > > "keep"
                                  > > > > > > > > > > them
                                  > > > > > > > > > > >in power? I am more interested in what Bongo
                                  has to
                                  > > say
                                  > > > > > > about
                                  > > > > > > > > the
                                  > > > > > > > > > > >political challenges Africans have to face. I
                                  think
                                  > > > > that it
                                  > > > > > > is
                                  > > > > > > > > > > >important to focus now on economic development
                                  and
                                  > > aid
                                  > > > > for
                                  > > > > > > > > African
                                  > > > > > > > > > > >countries. I like what Bongo has to say about
                                  how
                                  > > the
                                  > > > > > > marketing
                                  > > > > > > > > of
                                  > > > > > > > > > > >resources coming out of most African states are
                                  not
                                  > > > > > > controlled
                                  > > > > > > > > by
                                  > > > > > > > > > > the
                                  > > > > > > > > > > >states themselves but by external entities.
                                  > > > > > > > > > > >For example, it is important to develop the
                                  > > > > infrastructure
                                  > > > > > > > > where
                                  > > > > > > > > > > oil
                                  > > > > > > > > > > >producing states are actually refining the oil
                                  that
                                  > > is
                                  > > > > > > > > produced.
                                  > > > > > > > > > > Or
                                  > > > > > > > > > > >where companies marketing the by-products of
                                  > > resources
                                  > > > > > > like
                                  > > > > > > > > > > timber,
                                  > > > > > > > > > > >gold and diamonds are actually based and run by
                                  > > > > Africans
                                  > > > > > > native
                                  > > > > > > > > to
                                  > > > > > > > > > > >the region where they are produced. These
                                  things
                                  > > are
                                  > > > > more
                                  > > > > > > > > > > important
                                  > > > > > > > > > > >to the development of peoples lives than who is
                                  in
                                  > > > > > > political
                                  > > > > > > > > > > control
                                  > > > > > > > > > > >or what politician has the most money stashed
                                  away.
                                  > > I
                                  > > > > > > think
                                  > > > > > > > > > > arguably
                                  > > > > > > > > > > >that an intelligent and capable African head of
                                  > > state
                                  > > > > > > deserves
                                  > > > > > > > > to
                                  > > > > > > > > > > >have as much money as the Queen of England or
                                  Bill
                                  > > > > Gates
                                  > > > > > > for
                                  > > > > > > > > that
                                  > > > > > > > > > > >matter. Here in America, individuals
                                  speculating in
                                  > > the
                                  > > > > > > stock
                                  > > > > > > > > > > market
                                  > > > > > > > > > > >can amass wealth and power beyond that of a
                                  > > resource
                                  > > > > rich
                                  > > > > > > > > African
                                  > > > > > > > > > > >country!
                                  > > > > > > > > > > >I agree that Bongo is a better leader to his
                                  > > country
                                  > > > > than
                                  > > > > > > Bush
                                  > > > > > > > > or
                                  > > > > > > > > > > >Blair. His political intelligence seems to be
                                  > > leaps
                                  > > > > and
                                  > > > > > > > > bounds
                                  > > > > > > > > > > >beyond what Bush has to offer for instance.
                                  That is
                                  > > why
                                  > > > > I
                                  > > > > > > > > think
                                  > > > > > > > > > > that
                                  > > > > > > > > > > >he is extremely important for Gabon and for
                                  Africa
                                  > > at
                                  > > > > this
                                  > > > > > > > > time.
                                  > > > > > > > > > > >We have seen in America how term limits
                                  together
                                  > > with
                                  > > > > the
                                  > > > > > > > > > > influence
                                  > > > > > > > > > > >of special interest in campaign politics has
                                  eroded
                                  > > the
                                  > > > > > > quality
                                  > > > > > > > > of
                                  > > > > > > > > > > >leaders that are put in the positions of power.
                                  We
                                  > > are
                                  > > > > > > seeing
                                  > > > > > > > > that
                                  > > > > > > > > > > it
                                  > > > > > > > > > > >is the "quality" not quantity that is important
                                  > > when it
                                  > > > > > > comes
                                  > > > > > > > > to
                                  > > > > > > > > > > >political leadership.
                                  > > > > > > > > > > >Also, what does it say about the leadership of
                                  > > African
                                  > > > > > > states
                                  > > > > > > > > if
                                  > > > > > > > > > > it
                                  > > > > > > > > > > >is so easy for Chinese or any other powerful
                                  > > nation to
                                  > > > > > > gain
                                  > > > > > > > > > > economic
                                  > > > > > > > > > > >or political control?
                                  > > > > > > > > > > >So I support President Bongo and hope that his
                                  > > agenda
                                  > > > > > > reaches
                                  > > > > > > > > the
                                  > > > > > > > > > > >ears of those world leaders in power who truly
                                  > > care
                                  > > > > about
                                  > > > > > > the
                                  > > > > > > > > > > >development of the African continent. Maybe
                                  after
                                  > > the
                                  > > > > > > debaucle
                                  > > > > > > > > in
                                  > > > > > > > > > > >Liberia, politicians(especially black leaders)
                                  here
                                  > > in
                                  > > > > the
                                  > > > > > > > > states
                                  > > > > > > > > > > >will put more effort into understanding what
                                  > > economic
                                  > > > > > > > > development
                                  > > > > > > > > > > in
                                  > > > > > > > > > > >Africa means to world stability.
                                  > > > > > > > > > > >
                                  > > > > > > > > > > >
                                  > > > > > > > > > > >Ciao,
                                  > > > > > > > > > > >dupont
                                  > > > > > > > > > > >
                                  > > > > > > > > > > >
                                  > > > > > > > > > > >
                                  > > > > > > > > > > >
                                  > > > > > > > > > > >On Mon, 18 Aug 2003 02:16:49 -0000 "bobutne"
                                  > > > > > > <bobutne@a...>
                                  > > > > > > > > > > writes:
                                  > > > > > > > > > > >
                                  > > > > > > > > > > > >
                                  > > > > > > > > > > > > M'bolo dupont.
                                  > > > > > > > > > > > >
                                  > > > > > > > > > > > > President Omar Bongo must share (and,
                                  probably,
                                  > > > > > > abdicate)
                                  > > > > > > > > > > > > the "stability to Gabon" mantle with the
                                  French
                                  > > > > (5,000
                                  > > > > > > > > troops
                                  > > > > > > > > > > in
                                  > > > > > > > > > > > > Gabon and a large garrison
                                  > > surrounding/protecting
                                  > > > > the
                                  > > > > > > > > > > Presidential
                                  > > > > > > > > > > > > palace) who have worked to assure that he is
                                  > > kept in
                                  > > > > > > power.
                                  > > > > > > > > The
                                  > > > > > > > > > > 500
                                  > > > > > > > > > > > >
                                  > > > > > > > > > > > > Moroccan Presidential Guard helps, too.
                                  > > > > > > > > > > > >
                                  > > > > > > > > > > > > Bush and Blair are actually debasing the US
                                  and
                                  > > > > Britain
                                  > > > > > > > > world
                                  > > > > > > > > > > > > hegemony by their unilateral actions.
                                  President
                                  > > Omar
                                  > > > > > > Bongo
                                  > > > > > > > > is
                                  > > > > > > > > > > doing
                                  > > > > > > > > > > > >
                                  > > > > > > > > > > > > a better job for Gabon than GWB is doing for
                                  the
                                  > > US
                                  > > > > and
                                  > > > > > > > > world.
                                  > > > > > > > > > > > >
                                  > > > > > > > > > > > > The door to Africa is becoming closed to the
                                  > > West
                                  > > > > and
                                  > > > > > > is
                                  > > > > > > > > being
                                  > > > > > > > > > > left
                                  > > > > > > > > > > > >
                                  > > > > > > > > > > > > wide open for the Chinese to walk right in
                                  to
                                  > > gain
                                  > > > > > > economic
                                  > > > > > > > > and
                                  > > > > > > > > > > > > political control. I could expound on this
                                  for
                                  > > many,
                                  > > > > > > many
                                  > > > > > > > > pages
                                  > > > > > > > > > > on
                                  > > > > > > > > > > > > here but will desist for now.
                                  > > > > > > > > > > > >
                                  > > > > > > > > > > > >
                                  > > > > > > > > > > > >
                                  > > > > > > > > > > > >
                                  > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups
                                  Sponsor
                                  > > > > > > > > > > > > ---------------------~-->
                                  > > > > > > > > > > > > Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for Your
                                  HP,
                                  > > > > Epson,
                                  > > > > > > Canon
                                  > > > > > > > > or
                                  > > > > > > > > > > > > Lexmark
                                  > > > > > > > > > > > > Printer at Myinks.com. Free s/h on orders
                                  $50 or
                                  > > > > more to
                                  > > > > > > the
                                  > > > > > > > > US
                                  > > > > > > > > > > &
                                  > > > > > > > > > > > > Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?
                                  cid=5511
                                  > > > > > > > > > > > >
                                  > > > > > > http://us.click.yahoo.com/l.m7sD/LIdGAA/qnsNAA/JWorlB/TM
                                  > > > > > > > > > > > >
                                  > > > > > > > > > >
                                  > > > > > > > >
                                  > > > > > >
                                  > > > >
                                  > > -----------------------------------------------------------------
                                  ---
                                  > > > > > > > > > > >-~->
                                  > > > > > > > > > > > >
                                  > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an
                                  email
                                  > > to:
                                  > > > > > > > > > > > > gabondiscussion-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                  > > > > > > > > > > > >
                                  > > > > > > > > > > > >
                                  > > > > > > > > > > > >
                                  > > > > > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                                  > > > > > > > > > > > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                                  > > > > > > > > > > > >
                                  > > > > > > > > > > > >
                                  > > > > > > > > > > > >
                                  > > > > > > > > > > > >
                                  > > > > > > > > > > >
                                  > > > > > > > > > >
                                  > > > > > > > > > >
                                  > > > > > > > >
                                  > > > > > >
                                  > > > >
                                  > > _________________________________________________________________
                                  > > > > > > > > > > Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2
                                  months
                                  > > > > FREE*.
                                  > > > > > > > > > > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail
                                  > > > > > > > > > >
                                  > > > > > > > > > >
                                  > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
                                  > > > > > > > > > >
                                  > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                  > > > > > > > > > > gabondiscussion-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                  > > > > > > > > > >
                                  > > > > > > > > > >
                                  > > > > > > > > > >
                                  > > > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                                  > > > > > > > > > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                                  > > > > > > > > > >
                                  > > > > > > > > > >
                                  > > > > > > > > > >
                                  > > > > > > > > > >
                                  > > > > > > > >
                                  > > > > > > > >
                                  > > > > > >
                                  > > > >
                                  > > _________________________________________________________________
                                  > > > > > > > > <b>Get MSN 8</b> and help protect your children with
                                  > > > > advanced
                                  > > > > > > > > parental
                                  > > > > > > > > controls. http://join.msn.com/?
                                  page=features/parental
                                  > > > > > > > >
                                  > > > > > > > >
                                  > > > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
                                  > > > > > > > >
                                  > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                  > > > > > > > > gabondiscussion-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                  > > > > > > > >
                                  > > > > > > > >
                                  > > > > > > > >
                                  > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                                  > > > > > > > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                                  > > > > > > > >
                                  > > > > > > > >
                                  > > > > > > > >
                                  > > > > > > > >
                                  > > > > > >
                                  > > > > > >
                                  > > > >
                                  > > _________________________________________________________________
                                  > > > > > > Get MSN 8 and help protect your children with advanced
                                  > > parental
                                  > > > > > > controls.
                                  > > > > > > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/parental
                                  > > > > > >
                                  > > > > > >
                                  > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
                                  > > > > > >
                                  > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                  > > > > > > gabondiscussion-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                  > > > > > >
                                  > > > > > >
                                  > > > > > >
                                  > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                                  > > > > > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                                  > > > > > >
                                  > > > > > >
                                  > > > > > >
                                  > > > > > >
                                  > > > > >
                                  > > > > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  > > > > >
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > >
                                  > > _________________________________________________________________
                                  > > > > Get MSN 8 and enjoy automatic e-mail virus protection.
                                  > > > > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                  > > > > gabondiscussion-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                                  > > > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > >
                                  > >
                                  > > _________________________________________________________________
                                  > > MSN 8: Get 6 months for $9.95/month
                                  > > http://join.msn.com/?page=dept/dialup
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
                                  > >
                                  > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                  > > gabondiscussion-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                                  > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                • dupont3@juno.com
                                  I think that I explained why in my first post to this group. Again I will say that Bongo is a great leader for Gabon because: 1. The country has been a stable
                                  Message 16 of 24 , Aug 26, 2003
                                    I think that I explained why in my first post to this group. Again I will
                                    say that Bongo is a great leader for Gabon because:
                                    1. The country has been a stable country with no wars or political strife
                                    for 40 years since independence. Central Africa has seen much violence
                                    throughout the years and yet Gabon is stable.This can be attributed to
                                    the leadership of President Bongo. During the Cold War when East and West
                                    powers were fighting for influence in the political affairs of many
                                    African states, Gabon was able to avoid being used has a pawn in the
                                    political conflict. If you take for example what happened in the Ivory
                                    Coast after the death of President Houphouet-Boigny(another great
                                    african leader,) you can get an idea how important it is to have
                                    stability. I believe that stability is a testament to a great leader and
                                    Bongo deserves credit for that.
                                    2. His ability to deal with the former colonial power France while still
                                    retaining a strong sense of sovereignty and independence. Many African
                                    countries after independence have not been able to retain ties to the
                                    former colonial power necessary for a smooth transition to incourage
                                    foreign investment while preserving the integrity of the currency. During
                                    Bongo's rule Gabon has been able to take advantage of French
                                    intellectual resource while the CFA has remained strong.
                                    3. The environment is healthy, Throughout the years when many
                                    environmentalist have expressed concern about the shrinking rain forrest.
                                    Gabon is one of the few countries with relatively untainted natural
                                    resources.It has been widely reported that much wildlife in Gabon is not
                                    accustomed to interaction with humans and there are even some unexplored
                                    regions. Gabon is a bright spot on the map of many who are concerned
                                    about the ecology of the planet. President Bongo deserves much credit for
                                    his leadership during a time of the greatest commercial exploitation of
                                    African resources.
                                    4.His astute knowledge of geopolitics, especially concerning the African
                                    continent. President Omar Bongo is considered one of the smartest leaders
                                    on the planet. His leadership and diplomatic skills have been called on
                                    to mediate many conflicts among nations in Africa. He is one of the few
                                    African leaders to consistently speak about the challenges of economic
                                    development in Africa. I think that because of the French language native
                                    to Gabon, many of his points of view have gone unnoticed by those in the
                                    English speaking world. Yet, make no mistake about it, Bongo's leadership
                                    is a source of pride in Africa. I have been fortunate to stay informed on
                                    the policy of President Bongo and I have been impressed with his ability
                                    to digest the intense geopolitical situation while staying focused on the
                                    needs of the state.


                                    Ciao,
                                    dupont




                                    On Tue, 26 Aug 2003 22:27:14 -0000 "bobutne" <bobutne@...> writes:
                                    > "I strongly believe that President Bongo is a great leader.."
                                    >
                                    > Please explain why you strongly believe President Omar Bongo is a
                                    > great leader.
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > --- In gabondiscussion@yahoogroups.com, dupont3@j... wrote:
                                    > > Ok, so you can now attack me, but it seems like you do not even
                                    > think
                                    > > about addressing the real issues at hand, other than to say
                                    > that, "the
                                    > > reality of life is not ideal." I am not attacking you personally
                                    > but
                                    > > exposing what I perceive to be your lack of knowledge about what
                                    > is
                                    > > really going on and throwing that back in your face everytime you
                                    >
                                    > spread
                                    > > naive innuendo about Bongo as if getting rid of him will change
                                    > the lives
                                    > > of Gabonese for the better.
                                    > > If you get off of your Bongo inquisition then maybe you will see
                                    > the
                                    > > light and actually make some attempts to address the real
                                    > challenges that
                                    > > the Gabonese people face.
                                    > > Now on to your response which was equally naive:
                                    > > 1. Iraq before the UN sanctions had no problem with lack of access
                                    >
                                    > to
                                    > > healthcare or malnutrition of its people. Iraqis are a very
                                    > intelligent
                                    > > people
                                    > > with some of the most capable medical professionals in the region.
                                    >
                                    > As an
                                    > > oil rich trading nation they had no problem importing enough food
                                    >
                                    > for
                                    > > their needs. That is until the UN choose to destroy their
                                    > livelyhood for
                                    > > the sake of what?
                                    > > 2. Yes, Bill Gates made his money in the private sector, but he
                                    > has also
                                    > > paid off many a politician to the point where he was able to
                                    > elude
                                    > > federal anti-trust prosecution. Microsoft is still under
                                    > prosecution by
                                    > > the European Union and they have already stated that he will not
                                    > get away
                                    > > with them. Any Billions that he may have donated to charitable
                                    > causes is
                                    > > most surely covered by tax breaks and in no way cover up for the
                                    > aspiring
                                    > > companies and promising technologies that he has squashed on the
                                    > way to
                                    > > world domination.
                                    > > 3.The Queen of England has no political power in England?
                                    > Political power
                                    > > lies in the support of the people and the Queen and the Monarchy
                                    > enjoys
                                    > > overwhelming support among the populace of the United Kingdom.The
                                    >
                                    > Queen
                                    > > wields enormous power behind the scenes should she desire to use
                                    > it.
                                    > >
                                    > > Sure I am assuming that my point is the best because I strongly
                                    > believe
                                    > > in what I am talking about. I strongly believe that President
                                    > Bongo is a
                                    > > great leader who succumbs to probably what every great leader in
                                    > the
                                    > > history of the world has succumbed to.The amassing of power and
                                    > wealth.
                                    > > I will take a great and capable leader who is amassing power and
                                    >
                                    > wealth
                                    > > anytime over an intellectual lightweight playing with war toys
                                    > like Bush
                                    > > or a business tyrant like Bill Gates. I also respect you
                                    > differences of
                                    > > opinion and whatever cultural bias play a part in that. But lets
                                    > get real
                                    > > about the people causing the most damage to the the fabric of
                                    > democracy
                                    > > in this world and lets not turn our backs when "the chickens come
                                    >
                                    > home to
                                    > > roost."
                                    > >
                                    > > Ciao,
                                    > > dupont
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > > On Tue, 26 Aug 2003 17:18:00 +0000 "C Yombi" <c_yombi@h...>
                                    > > writes:
                                    > > > The point is that you assume you know what everybody else is
                                    > doing
                                    > > > and
                                    > > > thinking. Before getting on your soap box, may be you should
                                    > find
                                    > > > out about
                                    > > > the people you are accusing of collusion. You don't know me or
                                    > have
                                    > > > any
                                    > > > information about my personal beliefs. You have no idea how I
                                    > voted
                                    > > > in the
                                    > > > last elections or even if I am a registered voter. You know
                                    > nothing
                                    > > > about my
                                    > > > background or my lifestyle.
                                    > > >
                                    > > > You bash the UN but seem to glaze over reality of life in Gabon
                                    >
                                    > for
                                    > > > the
                                    > > > majority of the population. How many children die each day in
                                    > Iraq
                                    > > > because
                                    > > > of malnutrition and lack of access to healthcare? How many NGOs
                                    >
                                    > deal
                                    > > > with
                                    > > > the everyday care of the world's population? The reality of life
                                    >
                                    > is
                                    > > > not the
                                    > > > ideal. Often, we must choose between the lesser of two evils.
                                    > > >
                                    > > > No one has disputed your points about the Bush administration.
                                    > You
                                    > > > bring up
                                    > > > billionaires like Bill Gates. He has made his money in the
                                    > private
                                    > > > sector,
                                    > > > and he has given BILLIONS away to help with research and
                                    > development
                                    > > > of
                                    > > > needed vaccines and HIV medications in Africa and elsewhere. The
                                    >
                                    > > > Queen of
                                    > > > England has no political power in Great Britain and the people
                                    > > > choose to
                                    > > > support the royal family monetarily. Bongo on the other hand is
                                    >
                                    > > > directly
                                    > > > responsible, just like Bush, for the policies and corruption in
                                    >
                                    > his
                                    > > > country.
                                    > > >
                                    > > > You assume your point is the best and leave no room for the off
                                    >
                                    > > > chance that
                                    > > > you could be wrong. In the end everyone is entitled to their own
                                    >
                                    > > > opinions,
                                    > > > but this should be a discussion forum and not a crusade to
                                    > convert
                                    > > > those to
                                    > > > your view of the world. There is no single correct point of view
                                    >
                                    > on
                                    > > > any
                                    > > > issue. Our own cultural biases and upbringings play a part in
                                    > our
                                    > > > understanding and interactions with those that are different
                                    > than
                                    > > > us. This
                                    > > > is very apparent with you.
                                    > > >
                                    > > > (And by the way, I used to live down the road from the crook's
                                    > house
                                    > > > - I
                                    > > > know how he lives the one day a year he chooses to reside
                                    > there.)
                                    > > >
                                    > > >
                                    > > > >From: dupont3@j...
                                    > > > >Reply-To: gabondiscussion@yahoogroups.com
                                    > > > >To: gabondiscussion@yahoogroups.com
                                    > > > >Subject: Re: [Gabon Discussion] re: "Bongo on Terrorism"
                                    > > > >Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2003 15:51:03 -0700
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > >Why are you so focused on this? Like I said before, we have the
                                    >
                                    > > > similar
                                    > > > >stuff going on here in the US. Maybe you forgot how Bush
                                    > became
                                    > > > >President. Yet, maybe you even voted for Bush or support him
                                    > still.
                                    > > > In
                                    > > > >Bongo's case it is good for Africa that he is still in power.
                                    > > > Meanwhile
                                    > > > >the Bush administration has been a disaster for the democratic
                                    >
                                    > > > process.
                                    > > > >You seem to make a lot of fuss about Bongo's accounts but I
                                    > will
                                    > > > wager
                                    > > > >that you do not blink an eye at the accounts of the many
                                    > > > billionares in
                                    > > > >America who are involved in shady business deals or the
                                    > politicians
                                    > > > who
                                    > > > >are on the payroll of them. What hypocrisy! to point a finger
                                    > at
                                    > > > Bongo
                                    > > > >and then indirectly benefit from all the shady crap going on in
                                    >
                                    > the
                                    > > > US.
                                    > > > >Speaking of the UN, we all know how much they are in the pocket
                                    >
                                    > of
                                    > > > the US
                                    > > > >and the trouble that is causing them around the world. The
                                    > last
                                    > > > time
                                    > > > >that I checked, the US owed them billions of dollars in back
                                    > dues.
                                    > > > Also,
                                    > > > >how many young kids were killed in Iraq because of UN
                                    > sanctions?
                                    > > > Did you
                                    > > > >make any noise about that? Bongo needs as much money as he can
                                    >
                                    > get
                                    > > > to
                                    > > > >just put a word in for Gabon at the table of the corrupt
                                    > Western
                                    > > > leaders.
                                    > > > >You seem brainwashed because you blindly follow those big
                                    > crooks
                                    > > > who have
                                    > > > >you chasing down the wrong road, when you should be driving
                                    > down
                                    > > > the road
                                    > > > >that leads to their house.
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > >Ciao,
                                    > > > >dupont
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > >On Sat, 23 Aug 2003 01:57:20 +0000 "C Yombi" <c_yombi@h...>
                                    > > > >writes:
                                    > > > > > May be it's just you who is brainwashed... Or may be people
                                    >
                                    > like
                                    > > > the
                                    > > > > > UN are
                                    > > > > > just making it all up.....
                                    > > > > >
                                    > > > > >
                                    > > > > > Vol 43 Number 25 - 20 December 2002
                                    > > > > >
                                    > > > > > Hear those drums
                                    > > > > >
                                    > > > > > For want of opposition, President Bongo can plan to rule
                                    > until
                                    > > > 2012
                                    > > > > > After three decades at the head of one of Africa's worst
                                    > managed
                                    > > > and
                                    > > > > > most
                                    > > > > > corrupt oil economies, President Omar Bongo might well
                                    > expect
                                    > > > some
                                    > > > > > political
                                    > > > > > trouble. Quite the opposite. His ruling Parti Démocratique
                                    > > > Gabonais
                                    > > > > > (PDG)
                                    > > > > > will sweep the board in the local elections on 29 December
                                    > and
                                    > > > Bongo
                                    > > > > > (health
                                    > > > > > permitting) could win yet another seven-year presidential
                                    > term
                                    > > > in
                                    > > > > > the
                                    > > > > > election due in 2005. The oppositionists of the early 1990s
                                    >
                                    > have
                                    > > > > > been
                                    > > > > > exiled, crushed or coopted.
                                    > > > > >
                                    > > > > > Gabonese have lost interest in the perennially rigged
                                    > elections.
                                    > > > > > Turnout at
                                    > > > > > the legislative polls last December was under 20 per cent
                                    > and
                                    > > > may be
                                    > > > > > lower
                                    > > > > > still in the local polls. Electoral registers have been
                                    > doctored
                                    > > > > > down to
                                    > > > > > 523,000: there were 775,000 names on the lists for the 2001
                                    > > > > > elections. Many
                                    > > > > > nominal political opponents are in Bongo's pay, the rest are
                                    >
                                    > > > divided
                                    > > > > > and
                                    > > > > > lack national support. For wealthy Gabonese, elections are
                                    > a
                                    > > > > > patronage
                                    > > > > > competition which shares out jobs and resources from 250,000
                                    >
                                    > > > barrels
                                    > > > > > of oil
                                    > > > > > a day, plus smaller timber and manganese exports.
                                    > > > > >
                                    > > > > >
                                    > > > > >
                                    > > > > >
                                    > > >
                                    > >
                                    > >------------------------------------------------------------------
                                    > ------
                                    > > -
                                    > > > >-------
                                    > > > > >
                                    > > > > > Vol 42 Number 16 - 10 August 2001
                                    > > > > >
                                    > > > > > Hey big spender
                                    > > > > >
                                    > > > > > The fuss over how President El Hadj Omar Bongo came to
                                    > deposit
                                    > > > over
                                    > > > > > US$180
                                    > > > > > million in three private Citibank accounts in New York won't
                                    >
                                    > go
                                    > > > > > away. First
                                    > > > > > raised in United States Senate hearings in November 1999, it
                                    >
                                    > is
                                    > > > now
                                    > > > > > the
                                    > > > > > subject of an embarrassing law suit against Bongo in the US
                                    >
                                    > > > Federal
                                    > > > > > Court,
                                    > > > > > Washington. Bongo's lawyers are trying to establish
                                    > diplomatic
                                    > > > > > immunity for
                                    > > > > > him as a serving head of a state recognised by the US
                                    > > > government.
                                    > > > > > And with
                                    > > > > > another US legal suit from a scrap metal company pending,
                                    > > > Bongo's
                                    > > > > > big-spending habits Stateside ­ he bought four Boeing
                                    > passenger
                                    > > > jets
                                    > > > > > in June
                                    > > > > > ­ won't win him any respite from his legal adversaries
                                    > there.
                                    > > > > >
                                    > > > > >
                                    > > > > >
                                    > > >
                                    > >
                                    > >------------------------------------------------------------------
                                    > ------
                                    > > -
                                    > > > >-------
                                    > > > > >
                                    > > > > >
                                    > > > > >
                                    > > > > >
                                    > > >
                                    > >
                                    > >------------------------------------------------------------------
                                    > ------
                                    > > -
                                    > > > >-------
                                    > > > > >
                                    > > > > > Vol 40 Number 22 - 05 November 1999
                                    > > > > >
                                    > > > > > Digging deeper holes
                                    > > > > >
                                    > > > > > A massive hole in Gabon's public finances - some say of more
                                    >
                                    > > > than
                                    > > > > > US$350
                                    > > > > > million - is at the heart of its growing financial and
                                    > political
                                    > > > > > crisis. By
                                    > > > > > the end of last year, arrears to foreign creditors were
                                    > > > estimated at
                                    > > > > > 160
                                    > > > > > billion CFA francs ($256.4 mn.) - and have probably doubled
                                    >
                                    > this
                                    > > > > > year.
                                    > > > > > President Omar Bongo's government also has arrears of CFA
                                    > 100
                                    > > > bn. to
                                    > > > > > local
                                    > > > > > banks. With an oil-fired GNP per head of $4,000, Gabon is
                                    > one of
                                    > > > > > Africa's
                                    > > > > > wealthiest states. Yet most people live in poverty and a
                                    > damning
                                    > > > new
                                    > > > > > report
                                    > > > > > from the United Nations Development Programme says social
                                    > > > services
                                    > > > > > are
                                    > > > > > collapsing. Tracing the missing $350 mn. preoccupies both
                                    > > > foreign
                                    > > > > > creditors
                                    > > > > > and Gabonese who worry about government corruption and
                                    > > > > > mismanagement. And
                                    > > > > > President Bongo is no longer able to rely on Paris nor
                                    > > > Washington to
                                    > > > > > block
                                    > > > > > exposure of murky areas in his government. He tried
                                    > everything,
                                    > > > > > including a
                                    > > > > > personal call to French President Jacques Chirac, to stifle
                                    >
                                    > the
                                    > > > > > inquiry by
                                    > > > > > magistrate Eva Joly into Elf-Aquitaine's unorthodox
                                    > financing
                                    > > > > > operations.
                                    > > > > >
                                    > > > > > This focussed on Bongo's relationship with André Tarallo,
                                    > > > > > Elf-Gabon's
                                    > > > > > disgraced and ousted Président-Directeur Général. Late last
                                    >
                                    > > > month,
                                    > > > > > Joly's
                                    > > > > > inquiries moved on when a Swiss magistrate, Paul Parraudin,
                                    >
                                    > > > produced
                                    > > > > > bank
                                    > > > > > records showing that over 600 mn. French francs ($97 mn.)
                                    > had
                                    > > > been
                                    > > > > > channelled through Tarallo's Swiss account from the
                                    > Gabonese
                                    > > > > > presidency.
                                    > > > > > Back home, after a year of strikes, demonstrations and the
                                    > > > payments
                                    > > > > > crisis,
                                    > > > > > Bongo's government needs a new deal with the International
                                    > > > Monetary
                                    > > > > > Fund.
                                    > > > > > Last year, the Fund suspended its Extended Financing
                                    > Facility
                                    > > > for
                                    > > > > > several
                                    > > > > > reasons, including 'lack of transparency in public finance'
                                    > > > > > (Fundspeak for
                                    > > > > > corruption). Libreville's negotiating team is led by
                                    > respected
                                    > > > > > Finance
                                    > > > > > Minister Emile Doumba, who has been trying, with limited
                                    > > > success, to
                                    > > > > >
                                    > > > > > persuade his ministerial colleagues and the presidency to
                                    > > > implement
                                    > > > > > an
                                    > > > > > IMF-inspired austerity programme.
                                    > > > > >
                                    > > > > >
                                    > > >
                                    > >
                                    > >------------------------------------------------------------------
                                    > ------
                                    > > -
                                    > > >
                                    > >
                                    > >------------------------------------------------------------------
                                    > -----F
                                    > > r
                                    > > > >eedom
                                    > > > > >
                                    > > > > > in the World 1998-99: Gabon
                                    > > > > > Freedom House Survey 1999
                                    > > > > > Economy: Capitalist (highly corrupt)
                                    > > > > > Population: 1,200,000
                                    > > > > > PPP: $3,766
                                    > > > > > Life Expectancy: 54
                                    > > > > > Ethnic Groups: Fang, Eshira, Bapounou, Bateke, other Bantu,
                                    >
                                    > > > other
                                    > > > > > Africans,
                                    > > > > > Europeans
                                    > > > > > Polity: Dominant party
                                    > > > > > Capital: Libreville
                                    > > > > > Political Rights: 5
                                    > > > > > Civil Liberties: 4
                                    > > > > > Status: Partly Free
                                    > > > > >
                                    > > > > >
                                    > > > > >
                                    > > > > > Overview
                                    > > > > > In December, President Omar Bongo was returned to office for
                                    >
                                    > a
                                    > > > > > seven-year
                                    > > > > > term. The polling, which was partially boycotted by the
                                    > > > opposition,
                                    > > > > > was
                                    > > > > > marked by serious irregularities. The nominally independent
                                    >
                                    > > > National
                                    > > > > >
                                    > > > > > Election Commission, which was created under the new
                                    > > > constitution
                                    > > > > > approved
                                    > > > > > by referendum in 1995, proved neither autonomous nor
                                    > competent.
                                    > > > > > Behind a
                                    > > > > > facade of democratic institutions, Bongo used patronage,
                                    > > > > > manipulation, and
                                    > > > > > intimidation to retain power. In Libreville in May, student
                                    >
                                    > > > riots
                                    > > > > > prompted
                                    > > > > > by deteriorating economic conditions were quickly
                                    > suppressed. At
                                    > > > > > least ten
                                    > > > > > students were seriously hurt. Three decades of autocratic
                                    > rule
                                    > > > have
                                    > > > > > made
                                    > > > > > Bongo among the world's richest men and left the vast
                                    > majority
                                    > > > of
                                    > > > > > oil-rich
                                    > > > > > Gabon's 1.4 million people mired in poverty. Bongo is
                                    > strongly
                                    > > > > > backed by the
                                    > > > > > army and by France. The highly profitable French ELF oil
                                    > company
                                    > > > > > plays a
                                    > > > > > dominant role in the country's economic and political life.
                                    > > > > >
                                    > > > > > Straddling the equator on central Africa's west coast, Gabon
                                    >
                                    > > > gained
                                    > > > > > independence from France in 1960. Bongo, whom France raised
                                    >
                                    > from
                                    > > > > > soldier to
                                    > > > > > president in 1967, completed his predecessor's consolidation
                                    >
                                    > of
                                    > > > > > power by
                                    > > > > > officially outlawing the opposition. France, which maintains
                                    >
                                    > 600
                                    > > > > > marines in
                                    > > > > > Gabon, has intervened twice to preserve Bongo's regime. In
                                    > 1990,
                                    > > > > > protests
                                    > > > > > prompted by economic duress forced Bongo to accept a
                                    > conference
                                    > > > that
                                    > > > > >
                                    > > > > > opposition leaders hoped would promote a peaceful
                                    > democratic
                                    > > > > > transition.
                                    > > > > > Bongo retained power, however, in rigged 1993 elections that
                                    >
                                    > > > sparked
                                    > > > > > violent
                                    > > > > > protests and repression led by his Presidential Guard. The
                                    > 1994
                                    > > > > > Paris
                                    > > > > > Accords claimed to institute true democratic reforms.
                                    > Municipal
                                    > > > > > elections in
                                    > > > > > 1996 saw major opposition gains, including the election of
                                    > Paul
                                    > > > Mba
                                    > > > > > Abbesole, the leader of the largest opposition party, as
                                    > mayor
                                    > > > of
                                    > > > > > Libreville. Legislative polls delayed by decree until
                                    > December
                                    > > > 1996
                                    > > > > > were
                                    > > > > > again beset by fraud as Bongo's Gabon Democratic Party won
                                    > an
                                    > > > > > overwhelming,
                                    > > > > > but unconvincing victory.
                                    > > > > >
                                    > > > > > Political Rights and Civil Liberties
                                    > > > > > Despite a gradual political opening since 1990, Gabon's
                                    > citizens
                                    > > > > > have never
                                    > > > > > been able to exercise their constitutional right to change
                                    > their
                                    > > > > > government
                                    > > > > > democratically. Bongo's 1998 electoral victory with 61
                                    > percent
                                    > > > of
                                    > > > > > the vote
                                    > > > > > followed a campaign that made profligate use of state
                                    > resources
                                    > > > and
                                    > > > > > state
                                    > > > > > media to promote his incumbency. Legislative elections have
                                    >
                                    > also
                                    > > > > > been
                                    > > > > > seriously flawed.
                                    > > > > >
                                    > > > > > State institutions are influenced or controlled by Bongo and
                                    >
                                    > a
                                    > > > small
                                    > > > > > elite
                                    > > > > > around him. The judiciary suffers from political
                                    > interference.
                                    > > > > > Rights to
                                    > > > > > legal counsel and public criminal trials are generally
                                    > > > respected,
                                    > > > > > but the
                                    > > > > > law presumes guilt. Judges may deliver summary verdicts, and
                                    >
                                    > > > torture
                                    > > > > > remains
                                    > > > > > a standard route to produce confessions. Prison conditions
                                    > are
                                    > > > > > marked by
                                    > > > > > beatings and insufficient food, water, and medical care.
                                    > The
                                    > > > > > government
                                    > > > > > often detains refugees without charge, and there are reports
                                    >
                                    > of
                                    > > > > > forced labor
                                    > > > > > by detainees. Rights of assembly and association are
                                    > > > > > constitutionally
                                    > > > > > guaranteed, but permits required for public gatherings are
                                    > > > sometimes
                                    > > > > >
                                    > > > > > refused. Freedom to form and join political parties is
                                    > generally
                                    > > > > > respected,
                                    > > > > > but civil servants may face harassment based on their
                                    > > > associations.
                                    > > > > > Nongovernmental organizations operate openly, although the
                                    > > > Gabonese
                                    > > > > > League
                                    > > > > > of Human Rights has reported threats and harassment.
                                    > > > > >
                                    > > > > > A government daily and approximately one dozen private
                                    > weeklies,
                                    > > > > > which are
                                    > > > > > primarily controlled by opposition parties, are published.
                                    > The
                                    > > > > > government
                                    > > > > > overwhelmingly dominates the broadcast media, which reach a
                                    >
                                    > far
                                    > > > > > larger
                                    > > > > > audience. Only a few private broadcasters have been
                                    > licensed,
                                    > > > and
                                    > > > > > their
                                    > > > > > viability is tenuous. A 1998 crackdown on private media has
                                    >
                                    > > > raised
                                    > > > > > serious
                                    > > > > > concerns for free expression. In February, Radio Soleil,
                                    > which
                                    > > > was
                                    > > > > > associated with the main Bucherons opposition party, was
                                    > closed.
                                    > > > In
                                    > > > > > January,
                                    > > > > > a cartoonist was sentenced to six months imprisonment for
                                    > > > lampooning
                                    > > > > > Bongo.
                                    > > > > > Publication of his newspaper was suspended for one month.
                                    > The
                                    > > > > > president of
                                    > > > > > the journalists' union was jailed for eight months. In
                                    > August,
                                    > > > the
                                    > > > > > opposition newspaper La Griffe was closed, and three of its
                                    >
                                    > > > staff
                                    > > > > > received
                                    > > > > > eight-month suspended sentences after publishing allegations
                                    >
                                    > of
                                    > > > > > ivory
                                    > > > > > smuggling by the national airline. Soldiers raided La Griffe
                                    >
                                    > > > offices
                                    > > > > > and
                                    > > > > > seized equipment. Foreign newspapers, magazines, and
                                    > broadcasts
                                    > > > are
                                    > > > > > usually
                                    > > > > > widely available, but editions criticizing Bongo have been
                                    > > > seized.
                                    > > > > >
                                    > > > > > Most of the small formal sector work force is unionized,
                                    > > > although
                                    > > > > > unions
                                    > > > > > must register with the government in order to be officially
                                    > > > > > recognized.
                                    > > > > > Despite legal protections, the government has taken action
                                    > > > against
                                    > > > > > numerous
                                    > > > > > strikers and unions and used force to suppress illegal
                                    > > > > > demonstrations. While
                                    > > > > > no legal restrictions on travel exist, harassment on
                                    > political
                                    > > > and
                                    > > > > > ethnic
                                    > > > > > bases has been reported. Religious freedom is
                                    > constitutionally
                                    > > > > > guaranteed
                                    > > > > > and respected. An official ban on Jehovah's Witnesses is
                                    > not
                                    > > > > > enforced.
                                    > > > > >
                                    > > > > > Legal protections for women include equal access laws for
                                    > > > education,
                                    > > > > >
                                    > > > > > business, and investment. In addition to owning property
                                    > and
                                    > > > > > businesses,
                                    > > > > > women constitute more than 50 percent of the salaried
                                    > workforce
                                    > > > in
                                    > > > > > the
                                    > > > > > health and trade sectors. At the same time, there are only
                                    > six
                                    > > > women
                                    > > > > > in the
                                    > > > > > 120-member National Assembly and one woman in the cabinet.
                                    > Women
                                    > > > > > continue to
                                    > > > > > face legal and cultural discrimination, particularly in
                                    > rural
                                    > > > areas,
                                    > > > > > and are
                                    > > > > > reportedly subject to widespread domestic violence.
                                    > > > > >
                                    > > > > > Little wealth from Gabon's oil revenues reaches the broad
                                    > > > populace,
                                    > > > > > most of
                                    > > > > > which is engaged in subsistence farming. Corruption is
                                    > endemic.
                                    > > > > >
                                    > > > > >
                                    > > > > >
                                    > > > > >
                                    > > > > > >From: dupont3@j...
                                    > > > > > >Reply-To: gabondiscussion@yahoogroups.com
                                    > > > > > >To: gabondiscussion@yahoogroups.com
                                    > > > > > >Subject: Re: [Gabon Discussion] re: "Bongo on Terrorism"
                                    > > > > > >Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2003 20:18:18 -0700
                                    > > > > > >
                                    > > > > > >Whoever would say that the Gabonese are worse off now than
                                    > > > > > independence
                                    > > > > > >must be brainwashed or does not know a damm thing about how
                                    >
                                    > it
                                    > > > was
                                    > > > > > like
                                    > > > > > >to reorganize institutions after a being under a colonial
                                    > > > power.
                                    > > > > > Also,
                                    > > > > > >what a disrespect to all the people who worked hard for an
                                    > > > > > independent
                                    > > > > > >and for 40 yrs. stable Gabon.
                                    > > > > > >To go on criticizing the government without coming up with
                                    >
                                    > any
                                    > > > > > >convincing alternative ideas other than conspiracy theories
                                    >
                                    > and
                                    > > > > > rumour is
                                    > > > > > >with all due respect, disingenuous and insensitive
                                    > poppycock.
                                    > > > > > >
                                    > > > > > >Ciao,
                                    > > > > > >dupont
                                    > > > > > >
                                    > > > > > >
                                    > > > > > >
                                    > > > > > >
                                    > > > > > >On Thu, 21 Aug 2003 20:31:32 +0000 "C Yombi"
                                    > > > <c_yombi@h...>
                                    > > > > > >writes:
                                    > > > > > > > Obvious point - Bongo has had almost 40 yrs to make a
                                    > > > difference
                                    > > > > > and
                                    > > > > > > > the
                                    > > > > > > > Gabonese are worse off now than at independence - bad
                                    > track
                                    > > > > > record.
                                    > > > > > > > If you
                                    > > > > > > > think elections were fair and square then you do not
                                    > agree
                                    > > > with
                                    > > > > > > > independent
                                    > > > > > > > election observers form around the world. In the end, it
                                    >
                                    > is >
                                    > > not
                                    > > > > > what
                                    > > > > > > > I want
                                    > > > > > > > for Gabon - but what the GABONESE want for themselves -
                                    >
                                    > my
                                    > > > > > husband
                                    > > > > > > > included
                                    > > > > > > > who is from Gabon.
                                    > > > > > > >
                                    > > > > > > >
                                    > > > > > > > >From: dupont3@j...
                                    > > > > > > > >Reply-To: gabondiscussion@yahoogroups.com
                                    > > > > > > > >To: gabondiscussion@yahoogroups.com
                                    > > > > > > > >Subject: Re: [Gabon Discussion] re: "Bongo on
                                    > Terrorism"
                                    > > > > > > > >Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 12:59:19 -0700
                                    > > > > > > > >
                                    > > > > > > > >Yes, I have seen how the some Gabonese people live. I
                                    > have
                                    > > > been
                                    > > > > > to
                                    > > > > > > > poorly
                                    > > > > > > > >supplied hospitals and schools. I have seen what you
                                    > > > consider
                                    > > > > > to be
                                    > > > > > > > the
                                    > > > > > > > >obvious hypocrisy.
                                    > > > > > > > >But I know that here in America the lifestyle of many
                                    > poor
                                    > > > > > people
                                    > > > > > > > is no
                                    > > > > > > > >different. It is just on a different scale. Most poor
                                    > > > people
                                    > > > > > here
                                    > > > > > > > in the
                                    > > > > > > > >US do not have health insurance. While rich people
                                    > spend
                                    > > > money
                                    > > > > > > > lavishly
                                    > > > > > > > >in the midst of a lot of pain and suffering. Homeless
                                    > > > people
                                    > > > > > abound
                                    > > > > > > > on
                                    > > > > > > > >the streets and our political system although 2 party,
                                    > > > > > > > disenfranchises
                                    > > > > > > > >many potentially great opponents. It is like. "been
                                    > there
                                    > > > done
                                    > > > > > > > that" when
                                    > > > > > > > >you try to focus on that type of stuff when talking
                                    > about a
                                    > > > > > > > nations
                                    > > > > > > > >development in a capitalist system. Maybe a socialist
                                    >
                                    > > > system
                                    > > > > > like
                                    > > > > > > > in
                                    > > > > > > > >Cuba would better achieve what you want in Gabon.
                                    > > > > > > > >I think that a healthy dose of idealism is what it
                                    > takes to
                                    > > > > > jump
                                    > > > > > > > start
                                    > > > > > > > >any successful capitalist economy. There is nothing
                                    > wrong
                                    > > > with
                                    > > > > > a
                                    > > > > > > > healthy
                                    > > > > > > > >dose of idealism, in fact, one can argue that
                                    > idealistic
                                    > > > values
                                    > > > > > are
                                    > > > > > > > the
                                    > > > > > > > >foundations of a healthy democracy. The hard part is
                                    > > > getting
                                    > > > > > people
                                    > > > > > > > to
                                    > > > > > > > >believe in the face of the harsh realities of
                                    > capitalism.
                                    > > > > > > > >Now to say that a majority of people do not support
                                    > > > President
                                    > > > > > Bongo
                                    > > > > > > > is
                                    > > > > > > > >not true. He has won elections fair and square, for
                                    >
                                    > all
                                    > > > > > that's
                                    > > > > > > > worth
                                    > > > > > > > >and beyond that is the most capable person for the job.
                                    >
                                    > The
                                    > > > man
                                    > > > > > is
                                    > > > > > > > a
                                    > > > > > > > >national treasure! Why would you want him out?
                                    > > > > > > > >If you can not work with leaders like President Bongo
                                    > then
                                    > > > you
                                    > > > > > are
                                    > > > > > > > not
                                    > > > > > > > >being realistic about facing the challenges of such
                                    > > > > > underdeveloped
                                    > > > > > > > >nations in Africa.You might be afraid to deal with the
                                    >
                                    > hard
                                    > > > > > issues
                                    > > > > > > > and
                                    > > > > > > > >instead choose to focus on the stuff that makes good
                                    > soap
                                    > > > > > opera.
                                    > > > > > > > >I say lets look at the big picture when it comes to
                                    > world
                                    > > > > > poverty.
                                    > > > > > > > Step
                                    > > > > > > > >back and look at this picture and you will see that
                                    > the
                                    > > > > > difference
                                    > > > > > > > points
                                    > > > > > > > >to the policies of the so-called first world nations
                                    > and
                                    > > > not
                                    > > > > > that
                                    > > > > > > > of a
                                    > > > > > > > >few seemingly wealthy(and well meaning) leaders who are
                                    >
                                    > > > still
                                    > > > > > poor
                                    > > > > > > > in
                                    > > > > > > > >comparison.
                                    > > > > > > > >
                                    > > > > > > > >Ciao,
                                    > > > > > > > >dupont
                                    > > > > > > > >
                                    > > > > > > > >
                                    > > > > > > > >On Tue, 19 Aug 2003 19:36:16 +0000 "C Yombi"
                                    > > > > > <c_yombi@h...>
                                    > > > > > > > >writes:
                                    > > > > > > > > > With all due respect,
                                    > > > > > > > > > You have visited Gabon but have you lived on the
                                    > > > people's
                                    > > > > > > > level?
                                    > > > > > > > > > Have you
                                    > > > > > > > > > seen all of the largess that Bongo has spread to
                                    > only
                                    > > > > > > > his"friends"?
                                    > > > > > > > > > Have you
                                    > > > > > > > > > seen the prisons and the schools? Have you seen all
                                    >
                                    > of
                                    > > > the
                                    > > > > > > > obvious
                                    > > > > > > > > > hypocrisy? Do you realize that Bongo only repaired
                                    > the
                                    > > > > > national
                                    > > > > > > > > > train
                                    > > > > > > > > > service so he could send his fleet of expensive cars
                                    >
                                    > to
                                    > > > > > > > Franceville
                                    > > > > > > > > > for his
                                    > > > > > > > > > annual vacation? How many Gabonese can take a
                                    > vacation
                                    > > > to
                                    > > > > > the
                                    > > > > > > > > > capital
                                    > > > > > > > > > annually? Any nation that has to rely on Peace Corps
                                    >
                                    > to
                                    > > > > > > > distribute
                                    > > > > > > > > > condoms
                                    > > > > > > > > > while trucks get to every corner distributing soft
                                    > > > drinks
                                    > > > > > has a
                                    > > > > > > > > > problem and
                                    > > > > > > > > > it starts with the government.
                                    > > > > > > > > >
                                    > > > > > > > > > Also, when a majority of the population does not
                                    > support
                                    > > > the
                                    > > > > > > > > > president and
                                    > > > > > > > > > had little or no voice to change this, is this a
                                    > great
                                    > > > > > > > democracy?
                                    > > > > > > > > > Another
                                    > > > > > > > > > principle of the United State's founding fathers was
                                    >
                                    > > > freedom
                                    > > > > > of
                                    > > > > > > > > > choice. Have
                                    > > > > > > > > > you ever heard of Neo-colonialism?
                                    > > > > > > > > >
                                    > > > > > > > > > How can individuals work toward supporting their
                                    > > > governments
                                    > > > > > > > and
                                    > > > > > > > > > country if
                                    > > > > > > > > > the government is taking food out of their mouths
                                    > and
                                    > > > > > spending
                                    > > > > > > > it on
                                    > > > > > > > > > lavish
                                    > > > > > > > > > trips to Paris? Have you been to rural health
                                    > clinics
                                    > > > where
                                    > > > > > > > women
                                    > > > > > > > > > struggle
                                    > > > > > > > > > to keep their children healthy or talked to primary
                                    >
                                    > > > school
                                    > > > > > > > students
                                    > > > > > > > > > who have
                                    > > > > > > > > > no teachers? May be a less idealistic and more
                                    > realistic
                                    > > > > > > > approach to
                                    > > > > > > > > > the
                                    > > > > > > > > > reality of one party governments in Africa would be
                                    >
                                    > a
                                    > > > better
                                    > > > > > > > > > approach.
                                    > > > > > > > > >
                                    > > > > > > > > > Carol
                                    > > > > > > > > >
                                    > > > > > > > > >
                                    > > > > > > > > >
                                    > > > > > > > > > >From: dupont3@j...
                                    > > > > > > > > > >Reply-To: gabondiscussion@yahoogroups.com
                                    > > > > > > > > > >To: gabondiscussion@yahoogroups.com
                                    > > > > > > > > > >Subject: Re: [Gabon Discussion] re: "Bongo on
                                    > > > Terrorism"
                                    > > > > > > > > > >Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2003 10:05:13 -0700
                                    > > > > > > > > > >
                                    > > > > > > > > > >Well , with all due respect, I think that
                                    > concentrating
                                    > > > on
                                    > > > > > > > Bongo's
                                    > > > > > > > > > bank
                                    > > > > > > > > > >account will get you nowhere.
                                    > > > > > > > > > >Ever thought about working with the President to
                                    > solve
                                    > > > some
                                    > > > > > of
                                    > > > > > > > the
                                    > > > > > > > > > >nations problems?
                                    > > > > > > > > > >Here in America we have many of the same problems
                                    > and
                                    > > > this
                                    > > > > > is
                                    > > > > > > > the
                                    > > > > > > > > > >wealthiest country in the world!
                                    > > > > > > > > > >We have an epidemic of homeless people, decaying
                                    > > > schools
                                    > > > > > in
                                    > > > > > > > inner
                                    > > > > > > > > > cities
                                    > > > > > > > > > >and a railroad(Amtrak) that cannot get its thing
                                    > > > together.
                                    > > > > > We
                                    > > > > > > > are
                                    > > > > > > > > > >spending 4 Billion dollars a month in Iraq at a
                                    > time
                                    > > > when
                                    > > > > > our
                                    > > > > > > > > > schools
                                    > > > > > > > > > >need books.
                                    > > > > > > > > > >I would also like to ask how is it that having
                                    > > > President
                                    > > > > > Bongo
                                    > > > > > > > step
                                    > > > > > > > > > down
                                    > > > > > > > > > >be good for Gabon or change the current situation
                                    > for
                                    > > > the
                                    > > > > > > > better?
                                    > > > > > > > > > >I have been to Gabon and it seems like the country
                                    >
                                    > is
                                    > > > > > dependent
                                    > > > > > > > on
                                    > > > > > > > > > the
                                    > > > > > > > > > >French for many things. If the French were to leave
                                    >
                                    > > > would
                                    > > > > > it
                                    > > > > > > > make
                                    > > > > > > > > > >anything better? I think not, it would not make
                                    > > > anything
                                    > > > > > > > better
                                    > > > > > > > > > and
                                    > > > > > > > > > >getting rid of President Bongo would probably
                                    > > > destabilize
                                    > > > > > the
                                    > > > > > > > > > country and
                                    > > > > > > > > > >the region has the resulting power grab would be
                                    > like
                                    > > > going
                                    > > > > > > > back in
                                    > > > > > > > > > time.
                                    > > > > > > > > > >I think that it is a shame that many Africans seem
                                    >
                                    > to
                                    > > > think
                                    > > > > > > > more
                                    > > > > > > > > > about
                                    > > > > > > > > > >fighting for power than the issues important for
                                    > > > developing
                                    > > > > > > > their
                                    > > > > > > > > > >country.
                                    > > > > > > > > > >It is time to look beyond forced power sharing as
                                    > a
                                    > > > > > solution.
                                    > > > > > > > In
                                    > > > > > > > > > Gabon
                                    > > > > > > > > > >each citizen must first make an effort to support
                                    > the
                                    > > > > > state.
                                    > > > > > > > Only
                                    > > > > > > > > > then
                                    > > > > > > > > > >will you find the necessary energy to tackle major
                                    > > > > > issues.The
                                    > > > > > > > > > founding
                                    > > > > > > > > > >fathers of the US went by a decree "United We Stand
                                    >
                                    > > > Divided
                                    > > > > > We
                                    > > > > > > > > > Fall"
                                    > > > > > > > > > >Every nation that aspires to economic success must
                                    >
                                    > > > first
                                    > > > > > find
                                    > > > > > > > a
                                    > > > > > > > > > common
                                    > > > > > > > > > >ground to stand on.
                                    > > > > > > > > > >The Gabonese are a beautiful and special people and
                                    >
                                    > > > sure,
                                    > > > > > there
                                    > > > > > > > are
                                    > > > > > > > > > many
                                    > > > > > > > > > >who disagree with the President. But there are also
                                    >
                                    > > > many
                                    > > > > > who
                                    > > > > > > > do
                                    > > > > > > > > > not
                                    > > > > > > > > > >understand what a great leader that they have in
                                    > Bongo.
                                    > > > > > Many
                                    > > > > > > > who do
                                    > > > > > > > > > not
                                    > > > > > > > > > >understand the complete geopolitical challenge that
                                    >
                                    > not
                                    > > > > > only
                                    > > > > > > > > > Africans,
                                    > > > > > > > > > >but most 3rd world nations face when trying to
                                    > develop
                                    > > > > > their
                                    > > > > > > > > > economies in
                                    > > > > > > > > > >this new world order.
                                    > > > > > > > > > >Lets discuss bold new ideas and initiatives that
                                    > can
                                    > > > help
                                    > > > > > the
                                    > > > > > > > > > President
                                    > > > > > > > > > >lead Gabon into the 21st century.
                                    > > > > > > > > > >I love the famous quote in President John F
                                    > Kennedy's
                                    > > > > > > > inauguration
                                    > > > > > > > > > speech
                                    > > > > > > > > > >when he said, "ask not what your country can do for
                                    >
                                    > > > you,
                                    > > > > > but
                                    > > > > > > > what
                                    > > > > > > > > > you can
                                    > > > > > > > > > >do for your country."
                                    > > > > > > > > > >Yes, those are just words, but words, if
                                    > understood
                                    > > > > > correctly,
                                    > > > > > > > can
                                    > > > > > > > > > >inspire man to great heights.
                                    > > > > > > > > > >
                                    > > > > > > > > > >ciao,
                                    > > > > > > > > > >dupont
                                    > > > > > > > > > >
                                    > > > > > > > > > >
                                    > > > > > > > > > >
                                    > > > > > > > > > >
                                    > > > > > > > > > >
                                    > > > > > > > > > >On Mon, 18 Aug 2003 20:46:21 +0000 "C Yombi"
                                    > > > > > > > <c_yombi@h...>
                                    > > > > > > > > > >writes:
                                    > > > > > > > > > > > After having lived in a small town - Leconi -
                                    > with a
                                    > > > > > "Bongo
                                    > > > > > > > > > house"
                                    > > > > > > > > > > > while my
                                    > > > > > > > > > > > neighbors could hardly afford to send their
                                    > children
                                    > > > to
                                    > > > > > > > school
                                    > > > > > > > > > and
                                    > > > > > > > > > > > riding on
                                    > > > > > > > > > > > the trans-gabonese railway wondering if we were
                                    >
                                    > > > going to
                                    > > > > > end
                                    > > > > > > > up
                                    > > > > > > > > > in
                                    > > > > > > > > > > > the water
                                    > > > > > > > > > > > because of track neglect, I tend to think words
                                    >
                                    > are
                                    > > > just
                                    > > > > > > > that -
                                    > > > > > > > > > > > words. Don't
                                    > > > > > > > > > > > forget that Bongo is bankrolled by the French
                                    > > > government
                                    > > > > > in
                                    > > > > > > > > > order to
                                    > > > > > > > > > > > have
                                    > > > > > > > > > > > control over Gabon's dwendling oil wealth. Look
                                    >
                                    > at
                                    > > > > > Bongo's
                                    > > > > > > > bank
                                    > > > > > > > > > > > accounts and
                                    > > > > > > > > > > > then at the decaying state of Bongo University
                                    > in
                                    > > > LBV.
                                    > > > > > If
                                    > > > > > > > Bongo
                                    > > > > > > > > > is
                                    > > > > > > > > > > > such a
                                    > > > > > > > > > > > good leader, why did he feel the need to renig
                                    > on
                                    > > > his
                                    > > > > > > > promise
                                    > > > > > > > > > to
                                    > > > > > > > > > > > step down
                                    > > > > > > > > > > > in 2005 by ammending the constitution to rule
                                    > > > forever?
                                    > > > > > Ask
                                    > > > > > > > many
                                    > > > > > > > > > > > Gabonese and
                                    > > > > > > > > > > > they would vhemently disagree with you.
                                    > > > > > > > > > > >
                                    > > > > > > > > > > >
                                    > > > > > > > > > > > >From: "dupont6" <dupont3@j...>
                                    > > > > > > > > > > > >Reply-To: gabondiscussion@yahoogroups.com
                                    > > > > > > > > > > > >To: gabondiscussion@yahoogroups.com
                                    > > > > > > > > > > > >Subject: [Gabon Discussion] re: "Bongo on
                                    > > > Terrorism"
                                    > > > > > > > > > > > >Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2003 17:51:43 -0000
                                    > > > > > > > > > > > >
                                    > > > > > > > > > > > >Hello:
                                    > > > > > > > > > > > >I think that stability in any country in Africa
                                    >
                                    > > > depends
                                    > > > > > > > more
                                    > > > > > > > > > on
                                    > > > > > > > > > > > just
                                    > > > > > > > > > > > >military troops and Presidential guards. Of
                                    > course
                                    > > > all
                                    > > > > > > > leaders
                                    > > > > > > > > > of
                                    > > > > > > > > > > > >states have serious amounts of protection, but
                                    >
                                    > does
                                    > > > > > that
                                    > > > > > > > > > "keep"
                                    > > > > > > > > > > > them
                                    > > > > > > > > > > > >in power? I am more interested in what Bongo
                                    > has to
                                    > > > say
                                    > > > > > > > about
                                    > > > > > > > > > the
                                    > > > > > > > > > > > >political challenges Africans have to face. I
                                    > think
                                    > > > > > that it
                                    > > > > > > > is
                                    > > > > > > > > > > > >important to focus now on economic development
                                    >
                                    > and
                                    > > > aid
                                    > > > > > for
                                    > > > > > > > > > African
                                    > > > > > > > > > > > >countries. I like what Bongo has to say about
                                    > how
                                    > > > the
                                    > > > > > > > marketing
                                    > > > > > > > > > of
                                    > > > > > > > > > > > >resources coming out of most African states are
                                    >
                                    > not
                                    > > > > > > > controlled
                                    > > > > > > > > > by
                                    > > > > > > > > > > > the
                                    > > > > > > > > > > > >states themselves but by external entities.
                                    > > > > > > > > > > > >For example, it is important to develop the
                                    > > > > > infrastructure
                                    > > > > > > > > > where
                                    > > > > > > > > > > > oil
                                    > > > > > > > > > > > >producing states are actually refining the oil
                                    >
                                    > that
                                    > > > is
                                    > > > > > > > > > produced.
                                    > > > > > > > > > > > Or
                                    > > > > > > > > > > > >where companies marketing the by-products of
                                    > > > resources
                                    > > > > > > > like
                                    > > > > > > > > > > > timber,
                                    > > > > > > > > > > > >gold and diamonds are actually based and run
                                    > by
                                    > > > > > Africans
                                    > > > > > > > native
                                    > > > > > > > > > to
                                    > > > > > > > > > > > >the region where they are produced. These
                                    > things
                                    > > > are
                                    > > > > > more
                                    > > > > > > > > > > > important
                                    > > > > > > > > > > > >to the development of peoples lives than who is
                                    >
                                    > in
                                    > > > > > > > political
                                    > > > > > > > > > > > control
                                    > > > > > > > > > > > >or what politician has the most money stashed
                                    > away.
                                    > > > I
                                    > > > > > > > think
                                    > > > > > > > > > > > arguably
                                    > > > > > > > > > > > >that an intelligent and capable African head of
                                    >
                                    > > > state
                                    > > > > > > > deserves
                                    > > > > > > > > > to
                                    > > > > > > > > > > > >have as much money as the Queen of England or
                                    > Bill
                                    > > > > > Gates
                                    > > > > > > > for
                                    > > > > > > > > > that
                                    > > > > > > > > > > > >matter. Here in America, individuals
                                    > speculating in
                                    > > > the
                                    > > > > > > > stock
                                    > > > > > > > > > > > market
                                    > > > > > > > > > > > >can amass wealth and power beyond that of a
                                    > > > resource
                                    > > > > > rich
                                    > > > > > > > > > African
                                    > > > > > > > > > > > >country!
                                    > > > > > > > > > > > >I agree that Bongo is a better leader to his
                                    > > > country
                                    > > > > > than
                                    > > > > > > > Bush
                                    > > > > > > > > > or
                                    > > > > > > > > > > > >Blair. His political intelligence seems to be
                                    >
                                    > > > leaps
                                    > > > > > and
                                    > > > > > > > > > bounds
                                    > > > > > > > > > > > >beyond what Bush has to offer for instance.
                                    > That is
                                    > > > why
                                    > > > > > I
                                    > > > > > > > > > think
                                    > > > > > > > > > > > that
                                    > > > > > > > > > > > >he is extremely important for Gabon and for
                                    > Africa
                                    > > > at
                                    > > > > > this
                                    > > > > > > > > > time.
                                    > > > > > > > > > > > >We have seen in America how term limits
                                    > together
                                    > > > with
                                    > > > > > the
                                    > > > > > > > > > > > influence
                                    > > > > > > > > > > > >of special interest in campaign politics has
                                    > eroded
                                    > > > the
                                    > > > > > > > quality
                                    > > > > > > > > > of
                                    > > > > > > > > > > > >leaders that are put in the positions of power.
                                    >
                                    > We
                                    > > > are
                                    > > > > > > > seeing
                                    > > > > > > > > > that
                                    > > > > > > > > > > > it
                                    > > > > > > > > > > > >is the "quality" not quantity that is important
                                    >
                                    > > > when it
                                    > > > > > > > comes
                                    > > > > > > > > > to
                                    > > > > > > > > > > > >political leadership.
                                    > > > > > > > > > > > >Also, what does it say about the leadership of
                                    >
                                    > > > African
                                    > > > > > > > states
                                    > > > > > > > > > if
                                    > > > > > > > > > > > it
                                    > > > > > > > > > > > >is so easy for Chinese or any other powerful
                                    > > > nation to
                                    > > > > > > > gain
                                    > > > > > > > > > > > economic
                                    > > > > > > > > > > > >or political control?
                                    > > > > > > > > > > > >So I support President Bongo and hope that his
                                    >
                                    > > > agenda
                                    > > > > > > > reaches
                                    > > > > > > > > > the
                                    > > > > > > > > > > > >ears of those world leaders in power who truly
                                    >
                                    > > > care
                                    > > > > > about
                                    > > > > > > > the
                                    > > > > > > > > > > > >development of the African continent. Maybe
                                    > after
                                    > > > the
                                    > > > > > > > debaucle
                                    > > > > > > > > > in
                                    > > > > > > > > > > > >Liberia, politicians(especially black leaders)
                                    >
                                    > here
                                    > > > in
                                    > > > > > the
                                    > > > > > > > > > states
                                    > > > > > > > > > > > >will put more effort into understanding what
                                    > > > economic
                                    > > > > > > > > > development
                                    > > > > > > > > > > > in
                                    > > > > > > > > > > > >Africa means to world stability.
                                    > > > > > > > > > > > >
                                    > > > > > > > > > > > >
                                    > > > > > > > > > > > >Ciao,
                                    > > > > > > > > > > > >dupont
                                    > > > > > > > > > > > >
                                    > > > > > > > > > > > >
                                    > > > > > > > > > > > >
                                    > > > > > > > > > > > >
                                    > > > > > > > > > > > >On Mon, 18 Aug 2003 02:16:49 -0000 "bobutne"
                                    > > > > > > > <bobutne@a...>
                                    > > > > > > > > > > > writes:
                                    > > > > > > > > > > > >
                                    > > > > > > > > > > > > >
                                    > > > > > > > > > > > > > M'bolo dupont.
                                    > > > > > > > > > > > > >
                                    > > > > > > > > > > > > > President Omar Bongo must share (and,
                                    > probably,
                                    > > > > > > > abdicate)
                                    > > > > > > > > > > > > > the "stability to Gabon" mantle with the
                                    > French
                                    > > > > > (5,000
                                    > > > > > > > > > troops
                                    > > > > > > > > > > > in
                                    > > > > > > > > > > > > > Gabon and a large garrison
                                    > > > surrounding/protecting
                                    > > > > > the
                                    > > > > > > > > > > > Presidential
                                    > > > > > > > > > > > > > palace) who have worked to assure that he is
                                    >
                                    > > > kept in
                                    > > > > > > > power.
                                    > > > > > > > > > The
                                    > > > > > > > > > > > 500
                                    > > > > > > > > > > > > >
                                    > > > > > > > > > > > > > Moroccan Presidential Guard helps, too.
                                    > > > > > > > > > > > > >
                                    > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bush and Blair are actually debasing the US
                                    >
                                    > and
                                    > > > > > Britain
                                    > > > > > > > > > world
                                    > > > > > > > > > > > > > hegemony by their unilateral actions.
                                    > President
                                    > > > Omar
                                    > > > > > > > Bongo
                                    > > > > > > > > > is
                                    > > > > > > > > > > > doing
                                    > > > > > > > > > > > > >
                                    > > > > > > > > > > > > > a better job for Gabon than GWB is doing for
                                    >
                                    > the
                                    > > > US
                                    > > > > > and
                                    > > > > > > > > > world.
                                    > > > > > > > > > > > > >
                                    > > > > > > > > > > > > > The door to Africa is becoming closed to the
                                    >
                                    > > > West
                                    > > > > > and
                                    > > > > > > > is
                                    > > > > > > > > > being
                                    > > > > > > > > > > > left
                                    > > > > > > > > > > > > >
                                    > > > > > > > > > > > > > wide open for the Chinese to walk right in
                                    > to
                                    > > > gain
                                    > > > > > > > economic
                                    > > > > > > > > > and
                                    > > > > > > > > > > > > > political control. I could expound on this
                                    > for
                                    > > > many,
                                    > > > > > > > many
                                    > > > > > > > > > pages
                                    > > > > > > > > > > > on
                                    > > > > > > > > > > > > > here but will desist for now.
                                    > > > > > > > > > > > > >
                                    > > > > > > > > > > > > >
                                    > > > > > > > > > > > > >
                                    > > > > > > > > > > > > >
                                    > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups
                                    > Sponsor
                                    > > > > > > > > > > > > > ---------------------~-->
                                    > > > > > > > > > > > > > Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for Your
                                    > HP,
                                    > > > > > Epson,
                                    > > > > > > > Canon
                                    > > > > > > > > > or
                                    > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lexmark
                                    > > > > > > > > > > > > > Printer at Myinks.com. Free s/h on orders
                                    > $50 or
                                    > > > > > more to
                                    > > > > > > > the
                                    > > > > > > > > > US
                                    > > > > > > > > > > > &
                                    > > > > > > > > > > > > > Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?
                                    > cid=5511
                                    > > > > > > > > > > > > >
                                    > > > > > > >
                                    > http://us.click.yahoo.com/l.m7sD/LIdGAA/qnsNAA/JWorlB/TM
                                    > > > > > > > > > > > > >
                                    > > > > > > > > > > >
                                    > > > > > > > > >
                                    > > > > > > >
                                    > > > > >
                                    > > >
                                    > -----------------------------------------------------------------
                                    > ---
                                    > > > > > > > > > > > >-~->
                                    > > > > > > > > > > > > >
                                    > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an
                                    > email
                                    > > > to:
                                    > > > > > > > > > > > > > gabondiscussion-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                    > > > > > > > > > > > > >
                                    > > > > > > > > > > > > >
                                    > > > > > > > > > > > > >
                                    > > > > > > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                                    > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                                    > > > > > > > > > > > > >
                                    > > > > > > > > > > > > >
                                    > > > > > > > > > > > > >
                                    > > > > > > > > > > > > >
                                    > > > > > > > > > > > >
                                    > > > > > > > > > > >
                                    > > > > > > > > > > >
                                    > > > > > > > > >
                                    > > > > > > >
                                    > > > > >
                                    > > >
                                    > _________________________________________________________________
                                    > > > > > > > > > > > Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2
                                    > months
                                    > > > > > FREE*.
                                    > > > > > > > > > > >
                                    > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail
                                    > > > > > > > > > > >
                                    > > > > > > > > > > >
                                    > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
                                    > > > > > > > > > > >
                                    > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email
                                    > to:
                                    > > > > > > > > > > > gabondiscussion-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                    > > > > > > > > > > >
                                    > > > > > > > > > > >
                                    > > > > > > > > > > >
                                    > > > > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                                    > > > > > > > > > > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                                    > > > > > > > > > > >
                                    > > > > > > > > > > >
                                    > > > > > > > > > > >
                                    > > > > > > > > > > >
                                    > > > > > > > > >
                                    > > > > > > > > >
                                    > > > > > > >
                                    > > > > >
                                    > > >
                                    > _________________________________________________________________
                                    > > > > > > > > > <b>Get MSN 8</b> and help protect your children
                                    > with
                                    > > > > > advanced
                                    > > > > > > > > > parental
                                    > > > > > > > > > controls. http://join.msn.com/?
                                    > page=features/parental
                                    > > > > > > > > >
                                    > > > > > > > > >
                                    > > > > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
                                    > > > > > > > > >
                                    > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                    > > > > > > > > > gabondiscussion-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                    > > > > > > > > >
                                    > > > > > > > > >
                                    > > > > > > > > >
                                    > > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                                    > > > > > > > > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                                    > > > > > > > > >
                                    > > > > > > > > >
                                    > > > > > > > > >
                                    > > > > > > > > >
                                    > > > > > > >
                                    > > > > > > >
                                    > > > > >
                                    > > >
                                    > _________________________________________________________________
                                    > > > > > > > Get MSN 8 and help protect your children with advanced
                                    > > > parental
                                    > > > > > > > controls.
                                    > > > > > > > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/parental
                                    > > > > > > >
                                    > > > > > > >
                                    > > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
                                    > > > > > > >
                                    > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                    > > > > > > > gabondiscussion-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                    > > > > > > >
                                    > > > > > > >
                                    > > > > > > >
                                    > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                                    > > > > > > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                                    > > > > > > >
                                    > > > > > > >
                                    > > > > > > >
                                    > > > > > > >
                                    > > > > > >
                                    > > > > > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                    > > > > > >
                                    > > > > >
                                    > > > > >
                                    > > >
                                    > _________________________________________________________________
                                    > > > > > Get MSN 8 and enjoy automatic e-mail virus protection.
                                    > > > > > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus
                                    > > > > >
                                    > > > > >
                                    > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
                                    > > > > >
                                    > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                    > > > > > gabondiscussion-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                    > > > > >
                                    > > > > >
                                    > > > > >
                                    > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                                    > > > > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                                    > > > > >
                                    > > > > >
                                    > > > > >
                                    > > > > >
                                    > > >
                                    > > >
                                    > _________________________________________________________________
                                    > > > MSN 8: Get 6 months for $9.95/month
                                    > > > http://join.msn.com/?page=dept/dialup
                                    > > >
                                    > > >
                                    > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
                                    > > >
                                    > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                    > > > gabondiscussion-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                    > > >
                                    > > >
                                    > > >
                                    > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                                    > > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                                    > > >
                                    > > >
                                    > > >
                                    > > >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
                                    >
                                    > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                    > gabondiscussion-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                                    > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                  • bobutne
                                    Mr. Dupont has unique criteria for measuring the leadership abilities of a head-of-state. Mine are quite different. In my book, a great state leader does not
                                    Message 17 of 24 , Aug 27, 2003
                                      Mr. Dupont has unique criteria for measuring the leadership abilities
                                      of a head-of-state. Mine are quite different. In my book, a great
                                      state leader does not steal the wealth of his nation for his own self-
                                      serving greed/ego but works to increase the well-being of his people.
                                      My suggested criteria for evaluating President Omar Bongo are
                                      measured upon his leadership abilities in the following areas that
                                      affect every life in Gabon:

                                      1. Quality of health.

                                      2. Personal freedom including freedom of the press and free
                                      elections.

                                      3. National infrastructure.

                                      4. Public safety.

                                      5. Standard of living

                                      6. Quality of the urban and rural environments.

                                      If you want to debate these six points Mr. Dupont, I'd be glad to
                                      oblige.
                                    • dupont3@juno.com
                                      It seems like you have a very narrow view of a great leader. You seem like you know more about what the people of Gabon need than President Bongo. You see, I
                                      Message 18 of 24 , Aug 27, 2003
                                        It seems like you have a very narrow view of a great leader. You seem
                                        like you know more about what the people of Gabon need than President
                                        Bongo. You see, I believe that President Bongo knows whats best for the
                                        Gabonese people. He has a great character and intellect. He is a
                                        benovoloent character. The Gabonese are a benovolent people.
                                        I look at Gabon has an American and dont pretend to know what is best
                                        from a Gabonese perspective.
                                        I do know that it would be a great idea for the IMF and World Bank to
                                        give Gabon an aid package that will invest in the infrastructure of the
                                        country. This would address a lot of your concerns and points. It would
                                        have to be well thought out so as not to harm the precious environment.
                                        The money to do these things is available. Rather than waste billions on
                                        war society like ours should invest in stable countries that are ready
                                        for development as an alternative to destabilizing war.

                                        Ciao,
                                        dupont


                                        On Thu, 28 Aug 2003 00:54:59 -0000 "bobutne" <bobutne@...> writes:
                                        > Mr. Dupont has unique criteria for measuring the leadership abilities
                                        >
                                        > of a head-of-state. Mine are quite different. In my book, a great
                                        > state leader does not steal the wealth of his nation for his own
                                        > self-
                                        > serving greed/ego but works to increase the well-being of his
                                        > people.
                                        > My suggested criteria for evaluating President Omar Bongo are
                                        > measured upon his leadership abilities in the following areas that
                                        > affect every life in Gabon:
                                        >
                                        > 1. Quality of health.
                                        >
                                        > 2. Personal freedom including freedom of the press and free
                                        > elections.
                                        >
                                        > 3. National infrastructure.
                                        >
                                        > 4. Public safety.
                                        >
                                        > 5. Standard of living
                                        >
                                        > 6. Quality of the urban and rural environments.
                                        >
                                        > If you want to debate these six points Mr. Dupont, I'd be glad to
                                        > oblige.
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
                                        >
                                        > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                        > gabondiscussion-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                                        > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                      • bobutne
                                        I do know that it would be a great idea for the IMF and World Bank to give Gabon an aid package that will invest in the infrastructure of the country. Mr.
                                        Message 19 of 24 , Aug 27, 2003
                                          "I do know that it would be a great idea for the IMF and World Bank
                                          to give Gabon an aid package that will invest in the infrastructure
                                          of the country."

                                          Mr. Dupont appears to be a Bongo shill who refuses to address the
                                          critical issues confronting all Gabonese and to "beg" for more aid
                                          to benefit his and President Omar Bongo's pockets.

                                          As you know, Mr. Dupont, President Omar Bongo has expatriated
                                          hundreds of million dollars of Gabonese funds to his personal bank
                                          accounts, French real estate, auto dealerships, etc. at the
                                          expense of all Gabonese.

                                          So be it. President Omar Bongo has sufficient time to establish a
                                          very positive legacy that will benefit all Gabonese. May he make the
                                          right choices....
                                        Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.