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Re: [future-fuels-and-vehicles] Has anyone visited Keystone Carts and Seen the Flyer?

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  • Eric Penne
    All of the photos you linked to require you to be a member of the EVADC group which requires the moderator to approve your membership. If you would be so kind
    Message 1 of 8 , Nov 11, 2006
      All of the photos you linked to require you to be a member of the EVADC
      group which requires the moderator to approve your membership.

      If you would be so kind to download the files and email them to me I would
      be glad to host them on my site so anybody can have access to see them
      without joining a Yahoo! group.

      Thanks
      Eric


      > There is an alternative to the ZAP Xebra being marketed in the United
      > States that I think just might be worth looking at. The vehicle is
      > called the Keystone Flyer. It is very, very similar to the ZAP Xebra.
      > The vehicle is a three wheeled vehicle with the single wheel up front,
      > small 48 volt system in the rear, much like a personal conversion DC
      > system. It has all of the car bells and whistles with windshield
      > wipers, crank down windows, 4 seats. There seems to be one difference,
      > I don't know if it is offered in the Xebra, and that is that the Flyer
      > is offered with a range extending generator as an option that
      > automatically comes on when the batteries reach the 1/3 state of charge.
      >
      > ECOBLUE CORPORATION of Huntington Beach, California is the lead
      > marketer and distributor for the Chinese company producing these
      > vehicles. They sent me a copy of an invoice that they sent to a client
      > during a recent lower price and free shipping promotion. The price of
      > the vehicle "Regular price wholesale $6150" is highly competitive in
      > its electric alone model. You have to pay $800 dollars more for the
      > "series hybrid" model. With GEMs selling for around $12,000 dollars
      > for an enclosed 4 seater, I would imagine that a retail price of just
      > under $10,000 would be attractive to many buyers, especially since the
      > speed and travel areas are not restricted as they are for registered
      > NEVs. The travel areas may not be restricted but you would have to be
      > an absolute fool to take one of these vehicles on 395. It simply can't
      > keep up and most assuredly will get shoved off the road by the wind
      > around big trucks. However, I plot my travel always to avoid highways
      > with my EV SOL anyway. As long as I don't have to push the EV SOL to
      > go highway speeds I typically can get to where I want to go. I think
      > it will be the same with these vehicles. I would think of them as
      > strictly a local roads town vehicle.
      >
      > At this price I am thinking of purchasing one of these vehicles. If it
      > is a stable platform then I can't loose, and if it is not I can still
      > tinker with it, maybe boost the power from the batteries by switching
      > to Obrbits or Optima batteries, changing the motor controller to a
      > Zilla. It is cheap enough so that a lot of people might want to buy
      > one as the grocery car or soccer mom car. I have put some pictures of
      > the vehicle in the list serve's photo boxes so you can see the latest
      > version. Let me know what you all think. Joelado
      >
      > Photos of the newest version of the Keystone Flyer
      > http://autos.ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/EVADC/photos/view/4709?b=17
      > http://autos.ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/EVADC/photos/view/4709?b=18
      > http://autos.ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/EVADC/photos/view/4709?b=19
      > http://autos.ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/EVADC/photos/view/4709?b=20
      > http://autos.ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/EVADC/photos/view/4709?b=21
      >
      > Link to the sample invoice
      > http://f1.grp.yahoofs.com/v1/kF5TRbBtagT8jMNmqoGcXCeQjDkqj9ZlfFTY31479kGXE-dJV1fLv1Azyi-
      > 58EtfNEpExa6ZMwFHZilJfEV3PcwJethm/invoice%20sample%20Keystone%20Flyer.doc
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > Yahoo! Groups Links
      >
      >
      >
      >
    • Eddie
      Someone was trying to sell these on EBay, but the auctions were continually flagged as a fraud since he admitted to NOT having an actual vehicle (go figure).
      Message 2 of 8 , Nov 11, 2006
        Someone was trying to sell these on EBay, but the
        auctions were continually flagged as a fraud since he
        admitted to NOT having an actual vehicle (go figure).
        Same goober who said the ZAP Xebra went further and
        faster than even ZAP claims in his EBay auctions. The
        person doing all this non-sense is not the sharpest
        pencil in the drawer...you cannot try to sell a Xebra
        with specs that are not correct and then turn around
        trying to sell the Keystone flyer and badmouth the
        Xebra as being slower, shorter, etc.

        Someone in the Xebra forum (IBB I think) tried to get
        into the warehouse to see one. As I recall they were
        not open to the public initially and then later
        admitted they didn't even have one vehicle in the US.
        Of course the person who listed the vehicle on EBay
        claimed the importer was in Houston and as you can see
        from the URLs shared California is not exactly
        Texas...

        Fishy...fishy...fishy...

        --- joelado <joelado@...> wrote:

        > There is an alternative to the ZAP Xebra being
        > marketed in the United
        > States that I think just might be worth looking at.
        > The vehicle is
        > called the Keystone Flyer. It is very, very similar
        > to the ZAP Xebra.


        Is Th!nk on the move? http://www.think.no/



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      • Scott Provost
        There is no Keystone Flyer. The vehicle pictured is an out of production vehicle that only went 40 mph for 15 to 25 miles. The familiar T logo on the grill
        Message 3 of 8 , Nov 12, 2006
          There is no Keystone Flyer. The vehicle pictured is an out of production vehicle that only went 40 mph for 15 to 25 miles. The familiar T logo on the grill demonstrates that. There are people who have reported to me paying thousands of dollars for a Keystone Flyer and not receiving anything. The web page claimed 100 mile range and 70 mph top speed. Those specifications are lies and fabrications. They have tried to get investment money, franchise fees and deposits from people.
          They have not filed franchise paperwork and the company is not properly incorporated in the US.
          This is a fraud and federal investigators have been notified. Do not send them any money.


          To: future-fuels-and-vehicles@yahoogroups.comFrom: joelado@...: Sat, 11 Nov 2006 20:02:00 +0000Subject: [future-fuels-and-vehicles] Has anyone visited Keystone Carts and Seen the Flyer?




          There is an alternative to the ZAP Xebra being marketed in the UnitedStates that I think just might be worth looking at. The vehicle iscalled the Keystone Flyer. It is very, very similar to the ZAP Xebra.The vehicle is a three wheeled vehicle with the single wheel up front,small 48 volt system in the rear, much like a personal conversion DCsystem. It has all of the car bells and whistles with windshieldwipers, crank down windows, 4 seats. There seems to be one difference,I don't know if it is offered in the Xebra, and that is that the Flyeris offered with a range extending generator as an option thatautomatically comes on when the batteries reach the 1/3 state of charge.ECOBLUE CORPORATION of Huntington Beach, California is the leadmarketer and distributor for the Chinese company producing thesevehicles. They sent me a copy of an invoice that they sent to a clientduring a recent lower price and free shipping promotion. The price ofthe vehicle "Regular price wholesale $6150" is highly competitive inits electric alone model. You have to pay $800 dollars more for the"series hybrid" model. With GEMs selling for around $12,000 dollarsfor an enclosed 4 seater, I would imagine that a retail price of justunder $10,000 would be attractive to many buyers, especially since thespeed and travel areas are not restricted as they are for registeredNEVs. The travel areas may not be restricted but you would have to bean absolute fool to take one of these vehicles on 395. It simply can'tkeep up and most assuredly will get shoved off the road by the windaround big trucks. However, I plot my travel always to avoid highwayswith my EV SOL anyway. As long as I don't have to push the EV SOL togo highway speeds I typically can get to where I want to go. I thinkit will be the same with these vehicles. I would think of them asstrictly a local roads town vehicle.At this price I am thinking of purchasing one of these vehicles. If itis a stable platform then I can't loose, and if it is not I can stilltinker with it, maybe boost the power from the batteries by switchingto Obrbits or Optima batteries, changing the motor controller to aZilla. It is cheap enough so that a lot of people might want to buyone as the grocery car or soccer mom car. I have put some pictures ofthe vehicle in the list serve's photo boxes so you can see the latestversion. Let me know what you all think. JoeladoPhotos of the newest version of the Keystone Flyerhttp://autos.ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/EVADC/photos/view/4709?b=17http://autos.ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/EVADC/photos/view/4709?b=18http://autos.ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/EVADC/photos/view/4709?b=19http://autos.ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/EVADC/photos/view/4709?b=20http://autos.ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/EVADC/photos/view/4709?b=21Link to the sample invoicehttp://f1.grp.yahoofs.com/v1/kF5TRbBtagT8jMNmqoGcXCeQjDkqj9ZlfFTY31479kGXE-dJV1fLv1Azyi-58EtfNEpExa6ZMwFHZilJfEV3PcwJethm/invoice%20sample%20Keystone%20Flyer.doc


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        • murdoch
          Scott: It seems to me that until we can get some better info on this, maybe I should take down the posts that have already been made in this group, so that
          Message 4 of 8 , Nov 13, 2006
            Scott:

            It seems to me that until we can get some better info on this, maybe I
            should take down the posts that have already been made in this group,
            so that folks are not inadverently sent looking for one of these
            vehicles.

            Anyway, thanks for posting this sobering info.


            On Mon, 13 Nov 2006 04:20:43 +0000, you wrote:

            >There is no Keystone Flyer. The vehicle pictured is an out of production vehicle that only went 40 mph for 15 to 25 miles. The familiar T logo on the grill demonstrates that. There are people who have reported to me paying thousands of dollars for a Keystone Flyer and not receiving anything. The web page claimed 100 mile range and 70 mph top speed. Those specifications are lies and fabrications. They have tried to get investment money, franchise fees and deposits from people.
            >They have not filed franchise paperwork and the company is not properly incorporated in the US.
            >This is a fraud and federal investigators have been notified. Do not send them any money.
          • joelado
            I think that would be a mistake to remove the posts. I was just about to put money down on a Keystone Flyer, but before I did I thought I would ask the group
            Message 5 of 8 , Nov 14, 2006
              I think that would be a mistake to remove the posts. I was just about
              to put money down on a Keystone Flyer, but before I did I thought I
              would ask the group about them. Lucky me that there were people in
              this group that seemed to know what was going on with them. My money
              has gone back in my pocket until I can reduce my exposure to risk.

              I think it is interesting taht imidiately after you talk about yanking
              my request for information and help about the Flyer you go on a love
              fest. You only need to read one line on their website that lets you
              know that you guys are going overboard on what you are saying about
              Firefly. The line is "... in development...". There is also other
              language that states that the product is not complete and that most of
              what they are talking about is speculation of what that product will
              do in the future, NOT about what they are able to do. I have high
              hopes about the Firefly, but I am now firmly from the show me state.

              I don't know if it was this listserv or another but a lister put in a
              scathing piece about the Altair, saying that it was founded by a stock
              con man who had done the same in Canada. That attack was not real so
              don't believe everything people say.

              For me I have written Keystone Carts asking for more information and
              asking for greater assurences before I invest. Thanks to this group I
              am a little more causious before jumping in, but I still hold out hope
              that Keystone Carts is not a fraud, just a start-up with little cash
              and inventory. I hope they can get it together and begin selling EVs
              in the US.

              joelado

              PS. I don't work for Keystone Carts, I really was asking if there were
              people who lived near by in Long Beach that could check them out and
              see if they were legit as a business. They say they sell other karts. JL


              --- In future-fuels-and-vehicles@yahoogroups.com, murdoch
              <murdoch@...> wrote:
              >
              >
              > Scott:
              >
              > It seems to me that until we can get some better info on this, maybe I
              > should take down the posts that have already been made in this group,
              > so that folks are not inadverently sent looking for one of these
              > vehicles.
              >
              > Anyway, thanks for posting this sobering info.
              >
              >
              > On Mon, 13 Nov 2006 04:20:43 +0000, you wrote:
              >
              > >There is no Keystone Flyer. The vehicle pictured is an out of
              production vehicle that only went 40 mph for 15 to 25 miles. The
              familiar T logo on the grill demonstrates that. There are people who
              have reported to me paying thousands of dollars for a Keystone Flyer
              and not receiving anything. The web page claimed 100 mile range and 70
              mph top speed. Those specifications are lies and fabrications. They
              have tried to get investment money, franchise fees and deposits from
              people.
              > >They have not filed franchise paperwork and the company is not
              properly incorporated in the US.
              > >This is a fraud and federal investigators have been notified. Do
              not send them any money.
              >
            • murdoch
              ... I suppose it would be. I was just about ... Taking it a little personally? I had no quarrel with anyone here as regards this thread. No one has
              Message 6 of 8 , Nov 14, 2006
                On Wed, 15 Nov 2006 02:26:30 -0000, you wrote:

                >I think that would be a mistake to remove the posts.

                I suppose it would be.



                I was just about
                >to put money down on a Keystone Flyer, but before I did I thought I
                >would ask the group about them. Lucky me that there were people in
                >this group that seemed to know what was going on with them. My money
                >has gone back in my pocket until I can reduce my exposure to risk.
                >
                >I think it is interesting taht imidiately after you talk about yanking
                >my request for information

                Taking it a little personally? I had no quarrel with anyone here as
                regards this thread. No one has overly-promoted anything. My concern
                was to not risk having unsuspecting future web browsers come along and
                inadvertently stumble only across the positive stuff. In any event, I
                reckon we can leave it up.

                >and help about the Flyer you go on a love
                >fest. You only need to read one line on their website that lets you
                >know that you guys are going overboard on what you are saying about
                >Firefly. The line is "... in development...". There is also other
                >language that states that the product is not complete and that most of
                >what they are talking about is speculation of what that product will
                >do in the future, NOT about what they are able to do. I have high
                >hopes about the Firefly, but I am now firmly from the show me state.
                >
                >I don't know if it was this listserv or another but a lister put in a
                >scathing piece about the Altair, saying that it was founded by a stock
                >con man who had done the same in Canada. That attack was not real so
                >don't believe everything people say.

                I took that attack to have some plausibility, but ok, I'll keep an
                open mind about them.


                >For me I have written Keystone Carts asking for more information and
                >asking for greater assurences before I invest. Thanks to this group I
                >am a little more causious before jumping in, but I still hold out hope
                >that Keystone Carts is not a fraud, just a start-up with little cash
                >and inventory. I hope they can get it together and begin selling EVs
                >in the US.
                >
                >joelado
                >
                >PS. I don't work for Keystone Carts, I really was asking if there were
                >people who lived near by in Long Beach that could check them out and
                >see if they were legit as a business. They say they sell other karts. JL

                Never thought you worked for them, or were doing anything other than
                what I would do, which is to check something out by discussing it.
                Getting enthusiastic about something I or you see on the web is
                understandable. I thought the whole thing looked darn good for a
                minute. I was just glad to learn from someone else that we needed a
                heads-up about them, that's all.



                >
                >
                >--- In future-fuels-and-vehicles@yahoogroups.com, murdoch
                ><murdoch@...> wrote:
                >>
                >>
                >> Scott:
                >>
                >> It seems to me that until we can get some better info on this, maybe I
                >> should take down the posts that have already been made in this group,
                >> so that folks are not inadverently sent looking for one of these
                >> vehicles.
                >>
                >> Anyway, thanks for posting this sobering info.
                >>
                >>
                >> On Mon, 13 Nov 2006 04:20:43 +0000, you wrote:
                >>
                >> >There is no Keystone Flyer. The vehicle pictured is an out of
                >production vehicle that only went 40 mph for 15 to 25 miles. The
                >familiar T logo on the grill demonstrates that. There are people who
                >have reported to me paying thousands of dollars for a Keystone Flyer
                >and not receiving anything. The web page claimed 100 mile range and 70
                >mph top speed. Those specifications are lies and fabrications. They
                >have tried to get investment money, franchise fees and deposits from
                >people.
                >> >They have not filed franchise paperwork and the company is not
                >properly incorporated in the US.
                >> >This is a fraud and federal investigators have been notified. Do
                >not send them any money.
                >>
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >Yahoo! Groups Links
                >
                >
                >
                >
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