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Re: [future-fuels-and-vehicles] Re: Vehicle electrification

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  • Dave Cline
    Well I feel more knowedgeable for sure. Thanks Mr Beard6801. So hub motors are DC with permanent magnets. While typically other motors used are AC induction
    Message 1 of 17 , Jul 31, 2006
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      Well I feel more knowedgeable for sure. Thanks Mr Beard6801.

      So hub motors are DC with permanent magnets. While typically other motors
      used are AC induction motors, no magnets and more powerful and efficient.
      Correct?

      Although the benefits of direct drive wheels and their feedback, variability
      and auto-regen capability are apparent. The added redesign and reconfigure
      and the comparison with what I've read about AC induction appears
      overwhelmingly against such hub motors. But if these auto companies are
      experimenting with them I must not have all the basic facts loaded yet.

      "Good stuff Mainard."

      dc




      On 7/31/06, beard6801@... <beard6801@...> wrote:
      >
      > Another issue that comes to mind with the in wheel motors relates to the
      > magnets...The magnets are created by an electric current to gnenrate a
      > magnetic field and placing the magnet material into the feild.....The
      > strnetght of the magnet depensds on both the material and the field
      > strength.
      >
      > But the "permannt magnets" are not perfect, in order to retain their
      > magnetic strength they have to operate within certain parameters....
      >
      > Two things can lead to the weakening of feild strength, the first is
      > temperature...overheating a motor can cause the magnets to lose
      > strength....The other is vibration, and that presents a particular problem
      > for motors in the wheel, becuse the motors will be under constant vibrations
      > form the road surface....that is why the folks at Bridgestone designed their
      > motors with dampers in the motor....
      >
      >
      > ----- Original Message -----
      > From: beard6801@... <beard6801%40bellsouth.net>
      > To: future-fuels-and-vehicles@yahoogroups.com<future-fuels-and-vehicles%40yahoogroups.com>
      > Sent: Monday, July 31, 2006 6:59 PM
      > Subject: Re: [future-fuels-and-vehicles] Re: Vehicle electrification
      >
      > YES..one of the areas where putting motors in the wheels would allow us to
      > excel is in the areas of Anti-lock braking, traction control, and even
      > safety, as the wheels (by feedback tothe controllers) can relay information
      > previously unavailable..like when a tire is slipping, or the car is in a
      > spin....with wheel motors and active suspensions you would be able to
      > program them to automatically adjust to situations where the driver has lost
      > control!
      >
      > But until the issues relating to the unsprung weight are answered...no one
      > is likely to push a vehicle with in wheel motors past development into
      > production....
      >
      > They are trying in all areas, making the motors lighter through the use of
      > soft magnetic composites, using very strong permanent magnets, better
      > designs for the magnetic paths in the stators.....people are working on the
      > issues......
      >
      > ----- Original Message -----
      > From: murdoch
      > To: future-fuels-and-vehicles@yahoogroups.com<future-fuels-and-vehicles%40yahoogroups.com>
      > Sent: Monday, July 31, 2006 8:10 PM
      > Subject: Re: [future-fuels-and-vehicles] Re: Vehicle electrification
      >
      > Isn't Mitsubishi doing something like this?
      >
      > http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7816102/
      >
      > And also Michelin?
      >
      > http://radio.weblogs.com/0105910/2004/10/23.html
      >
      > (not certain, because the wheel apparently itself contans springs....)
      >
      > and isn't one of the major manufacturers working on some hybrid that
      > has different motors on front and back?
      >
      > Anyway, there seem to be several points here (understanding unsprung
      > vs. unsprung weight, and other points) but I wanted to go back to an
      > original point that I think maybe Lee made, with which I strongly
      > agree, which is that by going electric, one advantage is that we set
      > ourselves up for a bit more convenience and perhaps control, in going
      > 4wd or-the-like.
      >
      > We can bring electric motive power to all or none of the wheels, as we
      > (programming our vehicles) see fit, without having necessarily to come
      > up with an ingenious mechnical method of guaging and splitting of
      > power.
      >
      > There may be disadvantages to this, as well as advantages, but it
      > certainly does bear pointing out, as has been done. If we go
      > electric, we can remake where power is applied, and how much, and to
      > what end, on a vehicle.
      >
      > Sometimes when I am driving along, I reflect on the difference between
      > guaging traction as a person walking along in shoes, versus a car. A
      > car isn't able to speak English and talk to the brain of the driver,
      > exactly, and so cannot quite give that tactile sense that we take for
      > granted, that helps us each make minute adjustments when we are
      > walking or running along on our legs and feet. So, as the years have
      > passed, we certainly seem to have made progress in addressing this
      > matter, and so cars have various forms of 4wd, traction control,
      > sophisticated suspensions, etc. Bringing electric power might help
      > even further.
      >
      > On Mon, 31 Jul 2006 16:27:43 -0700 (PDT), you wrote:
      >
      > >Answer:
      > >
      > >Yes, that would reduce unsprung weight, but it would
      > >also place the motors in an area where there is not
      > >much space available. Hub motors are compact and
      > >conveniently-located in the middle of the wheel. When
      > >you build regen braking into the package, you get a
      > >beautiful, space-efficient design. If you pulled them
      > >inboard, you'd basically be putting them where the
      > >motor is anyway, although you could create an
      > >interesting comprimise design based on one motor
      > >powering the front wheels and another powering the
      > >rear. I read an interesting article once about a
      > >Honda CRX in which they put an extra engine in the
      > >rear hatch to power the rear wheels. You could do
      > >something similar, but much more compact with an EV
      > >drivetrain.
      > >
      > >Interesting stuff to ponder,
      > >
      > >Forbes
      > >
      > >--- Paul Scott <pscottvfx@... <pscottvfx%40earthlink.net>>
      > wrote:
      > >
      > >> Gil,
      > >>
      > >> Did anyone answer this question? I'd like to know,
      > >> too.
      > >>
      > >> Paul
      > >>
      > >>
      > >>
      > >> At 5:04 PM -0500 7/29/06, Mark Garvey wrote:
      > >> >Yes unsprung weight is a difficulty at some
      > >> points.
      > >>
      > >> Does a motor for each wheel have to be "unsprung"?
      > >>
      > >> IF I understand what you're talking about, it seem
      > >> to me that you
      > >> could attach the weighty electric motor to the
      > >> frame and couple it to
      > >> the wheels via a flexing driveshaft. Would that
      > >> reduce the unsprung
      > >> weight?
      > >>
      > >> --Gil
      > >>
      > >>
      > >>
      > >>
      > >> [Non-text portions of this message have been
      > >> removed]
      > >>
      > >>
      > >
      > >
      > >- Forbes Bagatelle-Black
      > >Santa Clarita, CA
      > >
      > >Join the "Bicycle Restoration Group" at
      > http://sports.groups.yahoo.com/group/Bicycle_Restoration
      > >
      > >__________________________________________________
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      > >
      > >Yahoo! Groups Links
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >
      >
      >



      --
      Dave Cline
      www.davecline.com/
      davecline@...


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • James Wilson
      I can t find the schedule for where WHO KILLED THE ELECTRIC CAR,is showing,city,date,time,etc. Thanks for info. James Wilson
      Message 2 of 17 , Aug 1 8:42 AM
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        I can't find the schedule for where WHO KILLED THE
        ELECTRIC CAR,is showing,city,date,time,etc.
        Thanks for info. James Wilson

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      • Eddie
        Did you try the web site for the film? Murdock posted a schedule about a week ago to the group that was newer than the web site, but I noticed last week it
        Message 3 of 17 , Aug 1 9:24 AM
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          Did you try the web site for the film? Murdock posted a schedule about a week ago to the group that was newer than the web site, but I noticed last week it caught up for the dates in Ohio.

          http://www.sonyclassics.com/whokilledtheelectriccar/

          After you get into the site (it uses flash) you need to wait a moment or two and there will be a link called Showtimes at the bottom of the window.

          James Wilson <jrem2@...> wrote:
          I can't find the schedule for where WHO KILLED THE
          ELECTRIC CAR,is showing,city,date,time,etc.
          Thanks for info. James Wilson

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          Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
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