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Re: [biofuel] Re: [evworld] Whence The Fuel For The Indy 500, NASCAR, Etc?

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  • murdoch
    Very handy list, thanks. At a glance, I d like to find out the numbers for H2, and as to the fuel cells, the important number is the one for the fuel, not the
    Message 1 of 1 , May 31, 2004
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      Very handy list, thanks.

      At a glance, I'd like to find out the numbers for H2, and as to the
      fuel cells, the important number is the one for the fuel, not the
      cell, in my view.... though it is useful to know the weight of the
      "engine" or other energy conversion device, particularly for certain
      applications. For example, a car engine carries not only its own
      weight and all attendant machinery, but the weight of its fuel and all
      attendant machinery, over the lifetime of the vehicle. This has a
      significant effect on the lifetime energy-usage of the device (car).

      I prefer the way your lists are done (energy per unit mass) to the
      other simplified direction (energy per unit volume at some sort of
      generally defined conditions for temperature pressure, etc.) in part
      because it's more scientific (both energy and mass are objectively
      precisely defined without much fanfare.... especially if we do not
      confuse mass with weight), but I do think that studying both is
      important for full perspective.

      For example, #2 Diesel is generally more energy dense than gasoline
      per unit volume, although it is apparently (from the list you give)
      slightly less energy dense per unit mass. And though Natural Gas is
      apparently very energy dense per unit mass, I doubt that per unit
      volume it has nearly the density of some of these other fuels, unless
      it is compressed to a very strong extent, or liquified (similar
      comments probably go for Hythane and Hydrogen).

      Aside from H2, I'd like to see numbers for DME, Vegetable Oil,
      Hythane.

      MM

      On Mon, 31 May 2004 16:59:48 -0500, you wrote:

      >> murdoch wrote:
      >> Both Methanol and Ethanol are somewhere around 70 or 80% energy
      >> density of gasoline. Close enough, I think. Battery electric fuel is
      >> not as energy dense as any of these liquid fuel, though I haven't
      >> checked figures.
      >
      > Pasted below are some comparisons of energy density to mass
      > in MegaJoules per kilogram (MJ/kg) for various forms and
      > storage devices. Additional information is welcomed.
      >
      > Table 2. A Comparison of Different Fuel
      > Lower Heat Values (LHV) for
      > Burning Different Sources of Energy
      > http://www1.agric.gov.ab.ca/$department/deptdocs.nsf/all/cl3019
      > 53.18 MJ/kg Natural Gas
      > 46.37 MJ/kg Propane
      > 43.80 MJ/kg Gasoline
      > 42.80 MJ/kg Diesel (#2)
      > 37.80 MJ/kg Biodiesel
      > 37.00 MJ/kg Fuel Oil (#1)
      > 26.70 MJ/kg Ethanol
      > 24.00 MJ/kg Coal
      > 20.93 MJ/kg Coal (Sub-bituminous)
      > 20.90 MJ/kg Methanol http://web.archive.org/web/20020713201640/http://www.geog.umd.edu/homepage/courses/jboberg/units.htm
      > 19.97 MJ/kg Flax Straw (dry)
      > 19.80 MJ/kg Wood Pellets
      > 17.86 MJ/kg Wheat Straw (dry)
      > 17.50 MJ/kg *Corn Stover (dry)
      > 16.20 MJ/kg *Shelled corn (15 percent moisture)
      > 15.43 MJ/kg Flax straw (20 percent moisture)
      > 15.00 MJ/kg Wood (15 percent moisture)
      > 13.74 MJ/kg Wheat straw (20 percent moisture)
      >
      > BATTERIES
      > 0.396 - 0.576 MJ/kg Lithium-Ion
      > 0.216 - 0.432 MJ/kg Nickel-Metal-Hydride
      > 0.162 - 0.288 MJ/kg Nickel-Cadmium
      > 0.108 - 0.180 MJ/kg Lead-Acid
      > http://www.batteryuniversity.com/partone-3.htm
      >
      > ALTERNATIVE BATTERIES
      > 0.0108 - 0.108 MJ/kg Ultracapacitors
      > 0.0207 MJ/kg Compressed air tanks
      > 1.39 MJ/kg Superflywheel - Buckytubes give 10x this amount!
      > 1.97 MJ/kg Fuel cells
      > 304K pg 14 of 29 PDF http://www.inf.ethz.ch/vs/events/dag2002/program/lectures/starner_2.pdf
      >
      >
      >
      >Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
      >http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
      >
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      >http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
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