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Re: [evworld] Battery Exchange

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  • Forbes Bagatelle-Black
    ... Our long-term testing indicates that fast charging increases lead acid battery life, when done properly. ... I did not intend to... Respectfully, Forbes
    Message 1 of 15 , May 5, 2004
      --- j j <ilovemycountryamerica@...> wrote:
      > Is there a trade-off on battery life and recharge
      > time with charge rate?

      Our long-term testing indicates that fast charging
      increases lead acid battery life, when done properly.

      > And why, please tell me, are
      > we discussing these as mutually exclusive options?
      >

      I did not intend to...

      Respectfully,

      Forbes Bagatelle-Black
      Santa Clarita, CA




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    • j j
      thanks for the information... Me either - it was in retrospect my fault a better model... ... Our long-term testing indicates that fast charging increases
      Message 2 of 15 , May 5, 2004
        thanks for the information...

        Me either - it was in retrospect my fault "a better model..."



        Forbes Bagatelle-Black <diarmaede@...> wrote:

        --- j j <ilovemycountryamerica@...> wrote:
        > Is there a trade-off on battery life and recharge
        > time with charge rate?

        Our long-term testing indicates that fast charging
        increases lead acid battery life, when done properly.

        > And why, please tell me, are
        > we discussing these as mutually exclusive options?
        >

        I did not intend to...

        Respectfully,

        Forbes Bagatelle-Black
        Santa Clarita, CA




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      • Forbes Bagatelle-Black
        On the other hand, remember that we have a vested interest in promoting fast charging, so I would like to see some independent test results on battery life. I
        Message 3 of 15 , May 5, 2004
          On the other hand, remember that we have a vested
          interest in promoting fast charging, so I would like
          to see some independent test results on battery life.
          I trust the guy who has done the testing and analyzed
          the data, but I did not do it myself.

          Yours,

          Forbes
          --- j j <ilovemycountryamerica@...> wrote:
          > thanks for the information...
          >
          > Me either - it was in retrospect my fault "a better
          > model..."
          >
          >
          >
          > Forbes Bagatelle-Black <diarmaede@...> wrote:
          >
          > --- j j <ilovemycountryamerica@...> wrote:
          > > Is there a trade-off on battery life and recharge
          > > time with charge rate?
          >
          > Our long-term testing indicates that fast charging
          > increases lead acid battery life, when done
          > properly.
          >
          > > And why, please tell me, are
          > > we discussing these as mutually exclusive options?
          > >
          >
          > I did not intend to...
          >
          > Respectfully,
          >
          > Forbes Bagatelle-Black
          > Santa Clarita, CA
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > __________________________________
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        • timlamour@aol.com
          In a message dated 5/5/2004 12:23:19 PM Pacific Standard Time, ilovemycountryamerica@yahoo.com writes: We need industry standards for battery shapes and what s
          Message 4 of 15 , May 5, 2004
            In a message dated 5/5/2004 12:23:19 PM Pacific Standard Time,
            ilovemycountryamerica@... writes:
            We need industry standards for battery shapes and what's wrong with a
            drive-through system and an warehouse the size of walmart?
            Surly you must be kidding!!!! "A" drive-through system? We need only one?

            Talk about urban blight on a McDonald's-super-sized mammoth scale. If this
            idea came to fruition, just picture....A Wallmart-sized battery-exchange
            box-building replacing every gasoline filling station on every corner. Now there's
            a visual image to get the public really behind BEV's. What great P.R. Sorry
            I went overboard.

            BTW this was done during the heyday of EV trucks in the 1910's and 20's. It
            is not unfeasible. But it is unfeasible in today's world for consumer BEV's.
            That is if there is ever to be any again. :) Tim.


            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Mike LaBonte
            I did some calculations on a battery exchange scheme some time ago, but I can t find them now. You don t need a wharehouse of batteries. An enclosed
            Message 5 of 15 , May 5, 2004
              I did some calculations on a battery exchange scheme some time ago,
              but I can't find them now. You don't need a wharehouse of batteries.
              An enclosed charging/storage structure could be attached to an
              outside wall of a regular fuel station (with beefed up electrical
              service). The batteries would be standardized, long, skinny modules.
              They would produce some high voltage, and would always be used sort
              of in parallel, with a multiplexing controller that does not actually
              connect them in parallel. More powerful cars would have more modules,
              but it would be possible to replace any subset of the modules at one
              time.

              A special dolly would be wheeled under the back of the car, and the
              batteries would motor themselves onto the dolly. The dolly is rolled
              over to the charging rack, which takes in the battery module, tests
              it, and moves it up into a storage location. The rack then produces a
              fresh module, which in installed in the car, and debits the charge
              card.

              This could be done by an attendent on a drive-through basis. It could
              take less time than filing a gas tank. The station only needs to hold
              enough batteries to make up for the difference between exchange time
              and recharge time. The calculation I can't find was for how many
              batteries would have to be stored, which I think was under 1000. That
              many battery modules could be stored along the side of a gas station
              building. Charging would take place overnight.

              I think it would work best if the batteries were leased. Stations
              would choose which leasing programs they participate in, providing
              fresh replacements for only the cost of recharging during the term of
              the lease. Kinda like Blue Rhino propane tanks. There would also be a
              few regular charging stations for those who don't participate in an
              accepted program. As the ratio of battery cars to liquid fuel cars
              goes up over time, pumps would be taken away to make more room for
              batteries.

              Quick charging not only loses more energy, it reduces battery life.
              If these can be solved, all the better.

              Mike

              --- In evworld@yahoogroups.com, j j <ilovemycountryamerica@y...>
              wrote:
              > We need industry standards for battery shapes and what's wrong with
              a drive-through system and an warehouse the size of walmart?
              >
              >
              >
              > timlamour@a... wrote:
              > >>>> I would suggest that a better model would be to build
              > battery stations should store and re-charge hundreds
              > of batteries. You pull up, a technician pulls out
              > your tired battery, and replaces it with a newly
              > charged battery.<<<<
              >
              > Not a new idea, and with all due respect, not a very practical one.
              This works great for cordless hand tools but storing batteries that
              weigh in sometimes at 1/2 the weight of the automobile they're
              powering, then giving every imaginable battery configuration and
              placement, this is not ever going to happen. Just try to imagine
              replacing an ICE engine every time it runs out of gasoline. That is
              close to the same thing you have suggested. A battery exchange
              facility like you are suggesting would dwarf any of the biggest
              WalMart box stores.
              >
              >
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            • Lee Dekker
              Modern robotics could handle the muscling in and out of these batteries easily. True, there would need to be a set scheme and battery size and shape for the
              Message 6 of 15 , May 6, 2004
                Modern robotics could handle the muscling in and out of these batteries easily. True, there would need to be a set scheme and battery size and shape for the idea to be practical. The same way there is a set shape, size and design of your gas tank orifice. Batteries could be ganged. A subcompact requiring one and an SUV requiring 4 and a semi requiring 50 and so on.

                This idea does sound impossible at first but with a closer look and an open mind it is only a matter of deciding to do it or not. There are no show stoppers or technological breakthroughs required to make it work. All the stuff needed is available and well tested. The commitment to establish an infrastructure and to build the vehicles is all that�s required.
                As far fetched as this idea may sound, it is vastly more doable, cost effective, efficient, and logical then the hydrogen fuel cell electric vehicle. For the HFCEV to compare with the BEV using battery exchange, a long list of technological breakthroughs would need to fall into our laps and then they would have to be tested and proven over time.

                j j <ilovemycountryamerica@...> wrote:We need industry standards for battery shapes and what's wrong with a drive-through system and an warehouse the size of walmart?



                timlamour@... wrote:
                >>>> I would suggest that a better model would be to build
                battery stations should store and re-charge hundreds
                of batteries. You pull up, a technician pulls out
                your tired battery, and replaces it with a newly
                charged battery.<<<<

                Not a new idea, and with all due respect, not a very practical one. This works great for cordless hand tools but storing batteries that weigh in sometimes at 1/2 the weight of the automobile they're powering, then giving every imaginable battery configuration and placement, this is not ever going to happen. Just try to imagine replacing an ICE engine every time it runs out of gasoline. That is close to the same thing you have suggested. A battery exchange facility like you are suggesting would dwarf any of the biggest WalMart box stores.


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