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Re: [future-fuels-and-vehicles] Re: Boron news/Sodium borohydride fuel cell vehicles

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  • murdoch
    [Default] On Wed, 28 Dec 2011 18:25:33 -0000, csceadraham ... Thanks for this info. Also, in another group another person was discussing another drawback of
    Message 1 of 5 , Jan 1, 2012
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      [Default] On Wed, 28 Dec 2011 18:25:33 -0000, "csceadraham"
      <csceadraham@...> wrote:
      >
      >--- In future-fuels-and-vehicles@yahoogroups.com, murdoch <murdoch@...> wrote:
      >>
      >> These have been tried before (see for example Millennium Cell in
      >> France about 12 years ago?) but I haven't heard much recently. The
      >> discussion of Boron as a desirable commodity reserve in Turkey is a
      >> new twist.
      >>
      >> I don't know if Graham Cowan, champion of Boron as fuel, is still
      >> around:
      >>
      >> http://www.eagle.ca/~gcowan/boron_blast.html
      >>
      >>
      >> If he is still around, he might find this of interest. I'll try to
      >> forward to him privately.
      >
      >That worked. MCEL was American. In collaboration with
      >Daimler-Chrysler they made the Natrium van, which went
      >a lot farther and faster than the Turkish two-seater.
      >Both suffer from the large volume per unit energy of
      >NaBH4 aqueous solution; plus, when MCEL existed, they
      >had data showing the stuff isn't *entirely* stable.
      >Catalyst or no catalyst, the NaBH4 and the water react,
      >so a sodium borohydride vehicle must slowly -- slower
      >than one with a cryotank, but still has to be dealt with --
      >vent hydrogen.

      Thanks for this info.

      Also, in another group another person was discussing another drawback
      of Sodium Borohydride being a caustic substance to work with.

      With respect to the Turkish effort, they are claiming Boron as being
      very abundant in Turkey. So, regardless of their effort to make use
      of it in vehicles using Sodium Borohydride, maybe overall they will
      find a way to capitalize on the abundance.

      >Much of my now less abundant web time I spend at
      >http://bravenewclimate.com/ .

      Ok, thanks.

      >
      >The thorium laser story is total crap.
      >--- G.R.L. Cowan, hydrogen-energy fan until ~1996
    • murdoch
      [Default] On Wed, 28 Dec 2011 18:25:33 -0000, csceadraham ... Hi Graham Another Boron story, a bit out of nowhere that seems of interest:
      Message 2 of 5 , Apr 18, 2012
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        [Default] On Wed, 28 Dec 2011 18:25:33 -0000, "csceadraham"
        <csceadraham@...> wrote:
        >
        >That worked. MCEL was American. In collaboration with
        >Daimler-Chrysler they made the Natrium van, which went
        >a lot farther and faster than the Turkish two-seater.
        >Both suffer from the large volume per unit energy of
        >NaBH4 aqueous solution; plus, when MCEL existed, they
        >had data showing the stuff isn't *entirely* stable.
        >Catalyst or no catalyst, the NaBH4 and the water react,
        >so a sodium borohydride vehicle must slowly -- slower
        >than one with a cryotank, but still has to be dealt with --
        >vent hydrogen.
        >
        >Much of my now less abundant web time I spend at
        >http://bravenewclimate.com/ .
        >
        >The thorium laser story is total crap.
        >
        >
        >--- G.R.L. Cowan, hydrogen-energy fan until ~1996

        Hi Graham

        Another Boron story, a bit out of nowhere that seems of interest:

        http://www.kurzweilai.net/boron-treated-carbon-nanotubes-soak-up-oil-from-water-repeatedly
        >Boron-treated carbon nanotubes soak up oil from water repeatedly
        >April 17, 2012
      • Oliver Perry
        I happened to personally meet the individual who started Millienium Cell. I worked with one of the engineers who came on board with Daimler Chrysler to further
        Message 3 of 5 , Apr 19, 2012
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          I happened to personally meet the individual who started Millienium Cell. I worked with one of the engineers who came on board with Daimler Chrysler to further develop the system. One of my students also got a job working for them. I know a lot about the project.

          It was actually was built on old technology begun in the space program. If you want a car and a fuel system priced at space shuttle figures it is a good deal. In my opinion the idea served to gain grant money and some investors interest. But, as you pointed out... the whole mess of recharging the system and reprocessing the spent sodium borohydride was never made close to being profitable. Some honest efforts were made to overcome the obstacles but they proved to be insurmountable. A fully charged tank would take the vehicle a reasonable range,,, making hydrogen for the fuel cell... but then how do you recharge the system... and you still have the expense of the fuel cell.

          O.H.Perry
          EEVC
          On Apr 18, 2012, at 2:06 PM, murdoch wrote:

          > [Default] On Wed, 28 Dec 2011 18:25:33 -0000, "csceadraham"
          > <csceadraham@...> wrote:
          >>
          >> That worked. MCEL was American. In collaboration with
          >> Daimler-Chrysler they made the Natrium van, which went
          >> a lot farther and faster than the Turkish two-seater.
          >> Both suffer from the large volume per unit energy of
          >> NaBH4 aqueous solution; plus, when MCEL existed, they
          >> had data showing the stuff isn't *entirely* stable.
          >> Catalyst or no catalyst, the NaBH4 and the water react,
          >> so a sodium borohydride vehicle must slowly -- slower
          >> than one with a cryotank, but still has to be dealt with --
          >> vent hydrogen.
          >>
          >> Much of my now less abundant web time I spend at
          >> http://bravenewclimate.com/ .
          >>
          >> The thorium laser story is total crap.
          >>
          >>
          >> --- G.R.L. Cowan, hydrogen-energy fan until ~1996
          >
          > Hi Graham
          >
          > Another Boron story, a bit out of nowhere that seems of interest:
          >
          > http://www.kurzweilai.net/boron-treated-carbon-nanotubes-soak-up-oil-from-water-repeatedly
          >> Boron-treated carbon nanotubes soak up oil from water repeatedly
          >> April 17, 2012
          >
          >
          > ------------------------------------
          >
          > Yahoo! Groups Links
          >
          >
          >
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