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Re: [future-fuels-and-vehicles] Re: CLUB LOOKING FOR SPONSORS

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  • Forbes Black
    Hi Ernie, Your calcs look reasonable to me.  I d tweak the battery weight down and the Cd up, but that would just be quibbling. Like I said, I ain t saying
    Message 1 of 8 , Sep 30, 2009
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      Hi Ernie,

      Your calcs look reasonable to me.  I'd tweak the battery weight down and the Cd up, but that would just be quibbling.

      Like I said, I ain't saying this is a GOOD idea, it's just not an impossible idea like the gravity powered car or the over-unity power supply.

      Yours

      - Forbes Black, Santa Clarita, CA

      --- On Wed, 9/30/09, Arcologic@... <Arcologic@...> wrote:

      From: Arcologic@... <Arcologic@...>
      Subject: [future-fuels-and-vehicles] Re: CLUB LOOKING FOR SPONSORS
      To: future-fuels-and-vehicles@yahoogroups.com
      Date: Wednesday, September 30, 2009, 1:08 PM






       





      Forbes said,



      Um... Yes, a photovoltaic trailer which powers an eBike as it rolls can

      work. It's not pretty... The trailer needs to be quite huge and the output

      power will be somewhat anemic, but it can work. If you can generate 100W,

      you can make it happen.



      I'm not saying this is a GOOD idea, but unlike some other ideas such as a

      wind generator or generators on the wheels or gravity providing all

      required power to operate a vehicle, a solar trailer is possible.



      Cheers,



      Forbes



      Hey, Forbes,



      I think you have the stuff to be a good inventor-- boundless optimism.



      Well, you are right, technically, it WILL work and it will not be pretty.

      I decided to run some calculations- -



      I allowed 225 pounds for rider and bike, 225 pounds for the trailer with 2

      sq.m. of PV, power conditioning, battery, etc. I assumed an average drag

      coefficient of 0.4 and allotted 6 sq.ft. of frontal area each for the rider

      and the trailer. I used a rolling resistance coefficient of 0.01 and

      assumed an electrical system efficiency of 0.6 for the power conditioning,

      battery, and motor.



      Here are the power requirements on level ground--



      5 mph......... .......80 watts

      10 mph......... ......190 watts



      If the rig is confronted with a 4% grade, the power to maintain 5 mph is

      259 watts.



      Allowing for the vehicle changing directions, without tracking, a

      reasonable average power from the 2 sq.m. PV is probably around 100 watts on a

      clear day. So the practical speed with no pedaling looks like 5 mph.



      UNLESS YOU WANT TO START THE DESIGN OVER, INCORPORATING BIKE AND TRAILER

      INTO ONE VEHICLE WITH EXCEPTIONALLY LOW DRAG, BUT THAT'S A SOLAR CAR.



      The calculation is being sent along as an Excel file. If you don't get

      it, send me an email and I will send it to you.



      The wind turbine on a trailer "won't work" primarily because it has to be

      built to not turn over when the wind blows. Otherwise, leave it off.



      Ernie Rogers



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    • tallex2002
      Several months ago on another list we were having a similar discussion on wind power assisted vehicles . On first glance the trailer toting a windmill sounds
      Message 2 of 8 , Oct 1, 2009
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        Several months ago on another list we were having a similar discussion on "wind power assisted vehicles". On first glance the trailer toting a windmill sounds pretty silly and someone had suggested this same idea in that group.
        My approach was this. There is a company that makes durable plastic mini turbines each putting out an approx 50 watts each@22mph wind speeds. They mount several on a single pole. My idea was to get a whole bunch of these mini turbines and mount them in a sort of under carriage cowling.
        Think of a jet engine air intake, molded with a fiberglass contoured aerodynamic shape and you would have free air flow through the bottom front of the vehicle, through the turbines and out the back end. If you mounted a set of primary mini turbines and then a secondary set,
        offset behind them and so on, this could certainly add up to some decent charging energy. In that space, you could mount 2-3 sets of 8 mini turbines and probably more. Dimensions for each prop are 6 inches each, 24x50 watts - minus 30 percent for efficiency losses you are still looking at some reasonable generation.
        Add another 2-3 sets and you could be looking at over 700 watts@22mph or more from an undercarriage unit.
        You might even do the same sort of thing on the roof as well, keeping aerodynamics in mind as well of course.

        If designed properly, theoretically there could actually be LESS drag and maybe even some LIFT action from the spinning props, thus perhaps reducing drag even further.
        You would need to raise the body but think of all the mini props you could mount in a 4ftx6-8ftx1.5ft? space and a perhaps shorter additional unit on top. Wind tunnel testing anyone?
        I know it still sounds crazy (just not as crazy as the trailer idea!)and I haven't crunched any numbers on this yet but it all started on thinking about how far fetched the original idea was and trying to come up with some actual practicality to it all. Any thoughts?


        <tallex>










        --- In future-fuels-and-vehicles@yahoogroups.com, Arcologic@... wrote:
        >
        > - A wind-turbine, on a trailer, charging an electric bike or electric
        > scooter as it moves

        >
        > Ernie Rogers
        >
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >

        Updated alternative energy+green tech videos
        http://www.alternate-energy.net/vidpicks08.html
      • Arcologic@aol.com
        Yes, Tallex, I do have some thoughts. First of all, it s very important to keep in mind conservation of energy. Always ask yourself, where is the energy
        Message 3 of 8 , Oct 2, 2009
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          Yes, Tallex,

          I do have some thoughts.

          First of all, it's very important to keep in mind conservation of energy.
          Always ask yourself, where is the energy coming from? If the car is the
          source of the "wind" then the car is the source of the energy. I think it
          was in the 1960s that Peter Lissaman published a paper on using wind power
          to augment a car. We are already familiar with vehicles using wind power.
          An ice boat is an outstanding example, and also the desert version with
          wheels. Turbines of various types have been mounted on sea vessels, but sails
          remain the most popular.

          The blades on a wind turbine are in fact sails. A properly shaped airfoil
          placed on a vehicle can give some beneficial thrust. You might just call
          them "fins." To give some serious benefit, they should be fairly large. I
          was headed that direction a few years back but I was persuaded by family
          members to stay with small fins at first for aesthetic reasons. You can see
          the result here: _www.max-mpg.com_ (http://www.max-mpg.com/)

          Ernie Rogers



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