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EV CO2 Emissions

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  • Ron Cochran
    It would appear that erroneous information about the CO2 emissions of EV s is rampant. I am surprised that I have not read any rantings on this List about an
    Message 1 of 11 , Jun 3, 2008
      It would appear that erroneous information about the CO2 emissions of EV's
      is rampant.

      I am surprised that I have not read any rantings on this List about an
      article published in the February 25, 2008 issue of USA Today. The article,
      which was also featured in the May issue of CurrentEvents, was entitled
      "Plus-in cars could actually increase air pollution". You can read it at
      Yodda Pierce
      [http://www.usatoday.com/tech/products/environment/2008-02-25-plug-in-hybrid
      s-pollution_n.htm]. Among other things, the article indicated that when a
      plug-in hybrid car is running on the battery (that is, when it is acting
      like a BEV), it can result in more CO2 emissions (from the electric
      generating plant) than an ICE car does.

      Extensive discussions on this List in March, '08 concluded that a BEV
      actually emits about 60% less CO2 than an ICE car.

      It is extremely unfortunate that a widely read paper like USA Today would
      get it so wrong! I am sure that article mislead a large number of people.
      It also appears that the EAA Newsletter, CurrentEvents, has a knack for
      publishing very misleading articles on this topic.




      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Lee Dekker
      Did they get it wrong? Or was the intention to smear EVs? Anyway, I ranted about it and all the other more then odd reports of horrible imagined problems
      Message 2 of 11 , Jun 3, 2008
        Did they get it wrong? Or was the intention to smear EVs?

        Anyway, I ranted about it and all the other more then odd reports of horrible imagined problems already being caused by an EV industry that does not yet exist. To no avail naturally. Just ranting.



        --- On Tue, 6/3/08, Ron Cochran <rcochran@...> wrote:
        From: Ron Cochran <rcochran@...>
        Subject: [future-fuels-and-vehicles] EV CO2 Emissions
        To: future-fuels-and-vehicles@yahoogroups.com
        Date: Tuesday, June 3, 2008, 5:37 PM











        It would appear that erroneous information about the CO2 emissions of EV's

        is rampant.



        I am surprised that I have not read any rantings on this List about an

        article published in the February 25, 2008 issue of USA Today. The article,

        which was also featured in the May issue of CurrentEvents, was entitled

        "Plus-in cars could actually increase air pollution". You can read it at

        Yodda Pierce

        [http://www.usatoday .com/tech/ products/ environment/ 2008-02-25- plug-in-hybrid

        s-pollution_ n.htm]. Among other things, the article indicated that when a

        plug-in hybrid car is running on the battery (that is, when it is acting

        like a BEV), it can result in more CO2 emissions (from the electric

        generating plant) than an ICE car does.



        Extensive discussions on this List in March, '08 concluded that a BEV

        actually emits about 60% less CO2 than an ICE car.



        It is extremely unfortunate that a widely read paper like USA Today would

        get it so wrong! I am sure that article mislead a large number of people.

        It also appears that the EAA Newsletter, CurrentEvents, has a knack for

        publishing very misleading articles on this topic.







        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Ron Cochran
        Lee, Sorry, but I did not see your rant on this article. However, I am glad to see that someone else was incensed. It is extremely unfortunate and destructive
        Message 3 of 11 , Jun 4, 2008
          Lee,

          Sorry, but I did not see your rant on this article. However, I am glad to
          see that someone else was incensed.

          It is extremely unfortunate and destructive that now there are millions of
          people, who read that incorrect USA Today article and now think that they
          know the REAL story about these plug-in hybrid cars. We need to consider
          that correct information that appears on Lists like this one might reach a
          few thousand people at best - hardly a "drop in the bucket" in comparison.

          I was only mildly surprised that a USA Today reporter would get it wrong, or
          may have been bought off. But that article sites a State of Minnesota study
          which reaches the same conclusion. I would have thought that Minnesota
          would have had some qualified people implementing their study and writing
          their report. I would also not expect that Minnesota could be bought off by
          the propaganda mongers.

          Yodda, in our previous discussion on this topic, you seemed to have a really
          good handle on it...What is your take on this?

          _____

          From: future-fuels-and-vehicles@yahoogroups.com
          [mailto:future-fuels-and-vehicles@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lee Dekker
          Sent: Wednesday, June 04, 2008 1:03 AM
          To: future-fuels-and-vehicles@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: Re: [future-fuels-and-vehicles] EV CO2 Emissions



          Did they get it wrong? Or was the intention to smear EVs?

          Anyway, I ranted about it and all the other more then odd reports of
          horrible imagined problems already being caused by an EV industry that does
          not yet exist. To no avail naturally. Just ranting.

          --- On Tue, 6/3/08, Ron Cochran <rcochran@ec. <mailto:rcochran%40ec.rr.com>
          rr.com> wrote:
          From: Ron Cochran <rcochran@ec. <mailto:rcochran%40ec.rr.com> rr.com>
          Subject: [future-fuels-and-vehicles] EV CO2 Emissions
          To: future-fuels- <mailto:future-fuels-and-vehicles%40yahoogroups.com>
          and-vehicles@yahoogroups.com
          Date: Tuesday, June 3, 2008, 5:37 PM

          It would appear that erroneous information about the CO2 emissions of EV's

          is rampant.

          I am surprised that I have not read any rantings on this List about an

          article published in the February 25, 2008 issue of USA Today. The article,

          which was also featured in the May issue of CurrentEvents, was entitled

          "Plus-in cars could actually increase air pollution". You can read it at

          Yodda Pierce

          [http://www.usatoday .com/tech/ products/ environment/ 2008-02-25-
          plug-in-hybrid

          s-pollution_ n.htm]. Among other things, the article indicated that when a

          plug-in hybrid car is running on the battery (that is, when it is acting

          like a BEV), it can result in more CO2 emissions (from the electric

          generating plant) than an ICE car does.

          Extensive discussions on this List in March, '08 concluded that a BEV

          actually emits about 60% less CO2 than an ICE car.

          It is extremely unfortunate that a widely read paper like USA Today would

          get it so wrong! I am sure that article mislead a large number of people.

          It also appears that the EAA Newsletter, CurrentEvents, has a knack for

          publishing very misleading articles on this topic.

          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
















          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Lee Dekker
          we can t do much of anything about these types of accidentally or purposefully placed anti-plug in news bits. The frequency with which they are picked up
          Message 4 of 11 , Jun 4, 2008
            "we" can't do much of anything about these types of accidentally or purposefully placed anti-plug in "news" bits. The frequency with which they are picked up and repeated over and over by the press and the disjointed and just plain odd nature of some of these writings cast real suspicion on the their origins and intended purpose.

            We can't do much and it doesn't matter much. It's too late to stop plug-ins and too late to stop people heading for them in mas. Efforts to confuse and dissuade will be drowned out by the reality of record high fuel costs and the general knowledge that those costs are never returning to the "good ol days".

            In my view, we have been carefully boxed in to nearly 100% dependence on oil based transportation by design. If true, the designers of this situation know we will soon be finding ways to break out of that box. As escape routs like plug-ins become apparent, the best the box designers can do is keep us confused in the hope we will not see the light and will stay in their box.


            --- On Wed, 6/4/08, Ron Cochran <rcochran@...> wrote:
            From: Ron Cochran <rcochran@...>
            Subject: RE: [future-fuels-and-vehicles] EV CO2 Emissions
            To: future-fuels-and-vehicles@yahoogroups.com
            Date: Wednesday, June 4, 2008, 7:12 AM











            Lee,



            Sorry, but I did not see your rant on this article. However, I am glad to

            see that someone else was incensed.



            It is extremely unfortunate and destructive that now there are millions of

            people, who read that incorrect USA Today article and now think that they

            know the REAL story about these plug-in hybrid cars. We need to consider

            that correct information that appears on Lists like this one might reach a

            few thousand people at best - hardly a "drop in the bucket" in comparison.



            I was only mildly surprised that a USA Today reporter would get it wrong, or

            may have been bought off. But that article sites a State of Minnesota study

            which reaches the same conclusion. I would have thought that Minnesota

            would have had some qualified people implementing their study and writing

            their report. I would also not expect that Minnesota could be bought off by

            the propaganda mongers.



            Yodda, in our previous discussion on this topic, you seemed to have a really

            good handle on it...What is your take on this?



            _____



            From: future-fuels- and-vehicles@ yahoogroups. com

            [mailto:future-fuels- and-vehicles@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Lee Dekker

            Sent: Wednesday, June 04, 2008 1:03 AM

            To: future-fuels- and-vehicles@ yahoogroups. com

            Subject: Re: [future-fuels- and-vehicles] EV CO2 Emissions



            Did they get it wrong? Or was the intention to smear EVs?



            Anyway, I ranted about it and all the other more then odd reports of

            horrible imagined problems already being caused by an EV industry that does

            not yet exist. To no avail naturally. Just ranting.



            --- On Tue, 6/3/08, Ron Cochran <rcochran@ec. <mailto:rcochran% 40ec.rr.com>

            rr.com> wrote:

            From: Ron Cochran <rcochran@ec. <mailto:rcochran% 40ec.rr.com> rr.com>

            Subject: [future-fuels- and-vehicles] EV CO2 Emissions

            To: future-fuels- <mailto:future- fuels-and- vehicles% 40yahoogroups. com>

            and-vehicles@ yahoogroups. com

            Date: Tuesday, June 3, 2008, 5:37 PM



            It would appear that erroneous information about the CO2 emissions of EV's



            is rampant.



            I am surprised that I have not read any rantings on this List about an



            article published in the February 25, 2008 issue of USA Today. The article,



            which was also featured in the May issue of CurrentEvents, was entitled



            "Plus-in cars could actually increase air pollution". You can read it at



            Yodda Pierce



            [http://www.usatoday .com/tech/ products/ environment/ 2008-02-25-

            plug-in-hybrid



            s-pollution_ n.htm]. Among other things, the article indicated that when a



            plug-in hybrid car is running on the battery (that is, when it is acting



            like a BEV), it can result in more CO2 emissions (from the electric



            generating plant) than an ICE car does.



            Extensive discussions on this List in March, '08 concluded that a BEV



            actually emits about 60% less CO2 than an ICE car.



            It is extremely unfortunate that a widely read paper like USA Today would



            get it so wrong! I am sure that article mislead a large number of people.



            It also appears that the EAA Newsletter, CurrentEvents, has a knack for



            publishing very misleading articles on this topic.



            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Yodda Pierce
            Hi Ron, Sorry I missed the article. All I got is a blank page. Yodda ... [http://www.usatoday.com/tech/products/environment/2008-02-25-plug-in-hybrid
            Message 5 of 11 , Jun 4, 2008
              Hi Ron,


              Sorry I missed the article. All I got is a blank page.

              Yodda

              --- Ron Cochran <rcochran@...> wrote:

              > It would appear that erroneous information about the
              > CO2 emissions of EV's
              > is rampant.
              >
              > I am surprised that I have not read any rantings on
              > this List about an
              > article published in the February 25, 2008 issue of
              > USA Today. The article,
              > which was also featured in the May issue of
              > CurrentEvents, was entitled
              > "Plus-in cars could actually increase air
              > pollution". You can read it at
              > Yodda Pierce
              >
              [http://www.usatoday.com/tech/products/environment/2008-02-25-plug-in-hybrid
              > s-pollution_n.htm]. Among other things, the article
              > indicated that when a
              > plug-in hybrid car is running on the battery (that
              > is, when it is acting
              > like a BEV), it can result in more CO2 emissions
              > (from the electric
              > generating plant) than an ICE car does.
              >
              > Extensive discussions on this List in March, '08
              > concluded that a BEV
              > actually emits about 60% less CO2 than an ICE car.
              >
              > It is extremely unfortunate that a widely read paper
              > like USA Today would
              > get it so wrong! I am sure that article mislead a
              > large number of people.
              > It also appears that the EAA Newsletter,
              > CurrentEvents, has a knack for
              > publishing very misleading articles on this topic.
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been
              > removed]
              >
              >
            • Linda
              ... The article s still there; the material you quoted broke the link across two lines (you d have needed to copy and paste the link together). Try this, with
              Message 6 of 11 , Jun 4, 2008
                On 6/4/08 11:09 PM, Yodda Pierce wrote:

                > Sorry I missed the article. All I got is a blank page.

                The article's still there; the material you quoted broke the link across two
                lines (you'd have needed to copy and paste the link together).

                Try this, with brackets:

                <http://www.usatoday.com/tech/products/environment/2008-02-25-plug-in-hybrid
                s-pollution_n.htm>

                ~Linda
              • Yodda Pierce
                Ron, Sorry I did not get a chance to see the article. I am somewhat of seasonal farmer. This time of year I tend to be extremely busy. At present I have
                Message 7 of 11 , Jun 4, 2008
                  Ron,

                  Sorry I did not get a chance to see the article. I am
                  somewhat of seasonal farmer. This time of year I tend
                  to be extremely busy. At present I have thousands of
                  peaches I need to get to market (among many crops) so
                  I have really not been too active on this board in
                  addition to having some out of town company visiting.
                  I regret not being able to spend more time on the
                  topics here,but if you can post the article I will
                  certainly take a look and analyze the article.

                  There are many corporations that try to disguise their
                  identities and attempt to solidify their credibility
                  by seeking out think tanks that will espouse their
                  propaganda. If they can get a government source for
                  their propaganda campaign then that is certainly very
                  impressive and I am surprised they would go along with
                  such nonsense

                  I will also contact the writers of the article
                  directly if I can directly rebut the article. Thanks
                  for letting us know!

                  Yodda



                  --- Ron Cochran <rcochran@...> wrote:

                  > Lee,
                  >
                  > Sorry, but I did not see your rant on this article.
                  > However, I am glad to
                  > see that someone else was incensed.
                  >
                  > It is extremely unfortunate and destructive that now
                  > there are millions of
                  > people, who read that incorrect USA Today article
                  > and now think that they
                  > know the REAL story about these plug-in hybrid cars.
                  > We need to consider
                  > that correct information that appears on Lists like
                  > this one might reach a
                  > few thousand people at best - hardly a "drop in the
                  > bucket" in comparison.
                  >
                  > I was only mildly surprised that a USA Today
                  > reporter would get it wrong, or
                  > may have been bought off. But that article sites a
                  > State of Minnesota study
                  > which reaches the same conclusion. I would have
                  > thought that Minnesota
                  > would have had some qualified people implementing
                  > their study and writing
                  > their report. I would also not expect that
                  > Minnesota could be bought off by
                  > the propaganda mongers.
                  >
                  > Yodda, in our previous discussion on this topic, you
                  > seemed to have a really
                  > good handle on it...What is your take on this?
                  >
                  > _____
                  >
                  > From: future-fuels-and-vehicles@yahoogroups.com
                  > [mailto:future-fuels-and-vehicles@yahoogroups.com]
                  > On Behalf Of Lee Dekker
                  > Sent: Wednesday, June 04, 2008 1:03 AM
                  > To: future-fuels-and-vehicles@yahoogroups.com
                  > Subject: Re: [future-fuels-and-vehicles] EV CO2
                  > Emissions
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Did they get it wrong? Or was the intention to smear
                  > EVs?
                  >
                  > Anyway, I ranted about it and all the other more
                  > then odd reports of
                  > horrible imagined problems already being caused by
                  > an EV industry that does
                  > not yet exist. To no avail naturally. Just ranting.
                  >
                  > --- On Tue, 6/3/08, Ron Cochran <rcochran@ec.
                  > <mailto:rcochran%40ec.rr.com>
                  > rr.com> wrote:
                  > From: Ron Cochran <rcochran@ec.
                  > <mailto:rcochran%40ec.rr.com> rr.com>
                  > Subject: [future-fuels-and-vehicles] EV CO2
                  > Emissions
                  > To: future-fuels-
                  > <mailto:future-fuels-and-vehicles%40yahoogroups.com>
                  > and-vehicles@yahoogroups.com
                  > Date: Tuesday, June 3, 2008, 5:37 PM
                  >
                  > It would appear that erroneous information about the
                  > CO2 emissions of EV's
                  >
                  > is rampant.
                  >
                  > I am surprised that I have not read any rantings on
                  > this List about an
                  >
                  > article published in the February 25, 2008 issue of
                  > USA Today. The article,
                  >
                  > which was also featured in the May issue of
                  > CurrentEvents, was entitled
                  >
                  > "Plus-in cars could actually increase air
                  > pollution". You can read it at
                  >
                  > Yodda Pierce
                  >
                  > [http://www.usatoday .com/tech/ products/
                  > environment/ 2008-02-25-
                  > plug-in-hybrid
                  >
                  > s-pollution_ n.htm]. Among other things, the article
                  > indicated that when a
                  >
                  > plug-in hybrid car is running on the battery (that
                  > is, when it is acting
                  >
                  > like a BEV), it can result in more CO2 emissions
                  > (from the electric
                  >
                  > generating plant) than an ICE car does.
                  >
                  > Extensive discussions on this List in March, '08
                  > concluded that a BEV
                  >
                  > actually emits about 60% less CO2 than an ICE car.
                  >
                  > It is extremely unfortunate that a widely read paper
                  > like USA Today would
                  >
                  > get it so wrong! I am sure that article mislead a
                  > large number of people.
                  >
                  > It also appears that the EAA Newsletter,
                  > CurrentEvents, has a knack for
                  >
                  > publishing very misleading articles on this topic.
                  >
                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been
                  > removed]
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been
                  > removed]
                  >
                  >
                • Ron Cochran
                  Yodda, Sounds like you have way important things to do right now. Good luck! When you get time to read something, the more important thing to read is the
                  Message 8 of 11 , Jun 5, 2008
                    Yodda,

                    Sounds like you have way important things to do right now. Good luck!

                    When you get time to read something, the more important thing to read is the
                    actual Minnesota report (PHEVCo2 Minn..pdf in files section). It shows that
                    the State of Minnesota does have the expected integrety and was clearly not
                    bought off. The USA Today article is not at all an accurate representation
                    of what Minnesota wrote.

                    Ron

                    _____

                    From: future-fuels-and-vehicles@yahoogroups.com
                    [mailto:future-fuels-and-vehicles@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Yodda Pierce
                    Sent: Thursday, June 05, 2008 12:25 AM
                    To: future-fuels-and-vehicles@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: RE: [future-fuels-and-vehicles] EV CO2 Emissions



                    Ron,

                    Sorry I did not get a chance to see the article. I am
                    somewhat of seasonal farmer. This time of year I tend
                    to be extremely busy. At present I have thousands of
                    peaches I need to get to market (among many crops) so
                    I have really not been too active on this board in
                    addition to having some out of town company visiting.
                    I regret not being able to spend more time on the
                    topics here,but if you can post the article I will
                    certainly take a look and analyze the article.

                    There are many corporations that try to disguise their
                    identities and attempt to solidify their credibility
                    by seeking out think tanks that will espouse their
                    propaganda. If they can get a government source for
                    their propaganda campaign then that is certainly very
                    impressive and I am surprised they would go along with
                    such nonsense

                    I will also contact the writers of the article
                    directly if I can directly rebut the article. Thanks
                    for letting us know!

                    Yodda

                    --- Ron Cochran <rcochran@ec. <mailto:rcochran%40ec.rr.com> rr.com> wrote:

                    > Lee,
                    >
                    > Sorry, but I did not see your rant on this article.
                    > However, I am glad to
                    > see that someone else was incensed.
                    >
                    > It is extremely unfortunate and destructive that now
                    > there are millions of
                    > people, who read that incorrect USA Today article
                    > and now think that they
                    > know the REAL story about these plug-in hybrid cars.
                    > We need to consider
                    > that correct information that appears on Lists like
                    > this one might reach a
                    > few thousand people at best - hardly a "drop in the
                    > bucket" in comparison.
                    >
                    > I was only mildly surprised that a USA Today
                    > reporter would get it wrong, or
                    > may have been bought off. But that article sites a
                    > State of Minnesota study
                    > which reaches the same conclusion. I would have
                    > thought that Minnesota
                    > would have had some qualified people implementing
                    > their study and writing
                    > their report. I would also not expect that
                    > Minnesota could be bought off by
                    > the propaganda mongers.
                    >
                    > Yodda, in our previous discussion on this topic, you
                    > seemed to have a really
                    > good handle on it...What is your take on this?
                    >
                    > _____
                    >
                    > From: future-fuels- <mailto:future-fuels-and-vehicles%40yahoogroups.com>
                    and-vehicles@yahoogroups.com
                    > [mailto:future-fuels- <mailto:future-fuels-and-vehicles%40yahoogroups.com>
                    and-vehicles@yahoogroups.com]
                    > On Behalf Of Lee Dekker
                    > Sent: Wednesday, June 04, 2008 1:03 AM
                    > To: future-fuels- <mailto:future-fuels-and-vehicles%40yahoogroups.com>
                    and-vehicles@yahoogroups.com
                    > Subject: Re: [future-fuels-and-vehicles] EV CO2
                    > Emissions
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > Did they get it wrong? Or was the intention to smear
                    > EVs?
                    >
                    > Anyway, I ranted about it and all the other more
                    > then odd reports of
                    > horrible imagined problems already being caused by
                    > an EV industry that does
                    > not yet exist. To no avail naturally. Just ranting.
                    >
                    > --- On Tue, 6/3/08, Ron Cochran <rcochran@ec.
                    > <mailto:rcochran%40ec.rr.com>
                    > rr.com> wrote:
                    > From: Ron Cochran <rcochran@ec.
                    > <mailto:rcochran%40ec.rr.com> rr.com>
                    > Subject: [future-fuels-and-vehicles] EV CO2
                    > Emissions
                    > To: future-fuels-
                    > <mailto:future-fuels-and-vehicles%40yahoogroups.com>
                    > and-vehicles@ <mailto:and-vehicles%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com
                    > Date: Tuesday, June 3, 2008, 5:37 PM
                    >
                    > It would appear that erroneous information about the
                    > CO2 emissions of EV's
                    >
                    > is rampant.
                    >
                    > I am surprised that I have not read any rantings on
                    > this List about an
                    >
                    > article published in the February 25, 2008 issue of
                    > USA Today. The article,
                    >
                    > which was also featured in the May issue of
                    > CurrentEvents, was entitled
                    >
                    > "Plus-in cars could actually increase air
                    > pollution". You can read it at
                    >
                    > Yodda Pierce
                    >
                    > [http://www.usatoday .com/tech/ products/
                    > environment/ 2008-02-25-
                    > plug-in-hybrid
                    >
                    > s-pollution_ n.htm]. Among other things, the article
                    > indicated that when a
                    >
                    > plug-in hybrid car is running on the battery (that
                    > is, when it is acting
                    >
                    > like a BEV), it can result in more CO2 emissions
                    > (from the electric
                    >
                    > generating plant) than an ICE car does.
                    >
                    > Extensive discussions on this List in March, '08
                    > concluded that a BEV
                    >
                    > actually emits about 60% less CO2 than an ICE car.
                    >
                    > It is extremely unfortunate that a widely read paper
                    > like USA Today would
                    >
                    > get it so wrong! I am sure that article mislead a
                    > large number of people.
                    >
                    > It also appears that the EAA Newsletter,
                    > CurrentEvents, has a knack for
                    >
                    > publishing very misleading articles on this topic.
                    >
                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been
                    > removed]
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been
                    > removed]
                    >
                    >






                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • Ron Cochran
                    Yadda and anyone else who tried to go to the USA Today article link that I posted. I am not sure why, but my link does not seem to work properly as it came
                    Message 9 of 11 , Jun 5, 2008
                      Yadda and anyone else who tried to go to the USA Today article link that I
                      posted. I am not sure why, but my link does not seem to work properly as it
                      came out on the List. Try instead to just paste the address :
                      http://www.usatoday.com/tech/products/environment/2008-02-25-plug-in-hybrids
                      -pollution_n.htm into your browser.

                      Ron

                      _____

                      From: future-fuels-and-vehicles@yahoogroups.com
                      [mailto:future-fuels-and-vehicles@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Yodda Pierce
                      Sent: Thursday, June 05, 2008 12:09 AM
                      To: future-fuels-and-vehicles@yahoogroups.com
                      Subject: Re: [future-fuels-and-vehicles] EV CO2 Emissions



                      Hi Ron,

                      Sorry I missed the article. All I got is a blank page.

                      Yodda

                      --- Ron Cochran <rcochran@ec. <mailto:rcochran%40ec.rr.com> rr.com> wrote:

                      > It would appear that erroneous information about the
                      > CO2 emissions of EV's
                      > is rampant.
                      >
                      > I am surprised that I have not read any rantings on
                      > this List about an
                      > article published in the February 25, 2008 issue of
                      > USA Today. The article,
                      > which was also featured in the May issue of
                      > CurrentEvents, was entitled
                      > "Plus-in cars could actually increase air
                      > pollution". You can read it at
                      > Yodda Pierce
                      >
                      [http://www.usatoday
                      <http://www.usatoday.com/tech/products/environment/2008-02-25-plug-in-hybrid
                      > .com/tech/products/environment/2008-02-25-plug-in-hybrid
                      > s-pollution_n.htm]. Among other things, the article
                      > indicated that when a
                      > plug-in hybrid car is running on the battery (that
                      > is, when it is acting
                      > like a BEV), it can result in more CO2 emissions
                      > (from the electric
                      > generating plant) than an ICE car does.
                      >
                      > Extensive discussions on this List in March, '08
                      > concluded that a BEV
                      > actually emits about 60% less CO2 than an ICE car.
                      >
                      > It is extremely unfortunate that a widely read paper
                      > like USA Today would
                      > get it so wrong! I am sure that article mislead a
                      > large number of people.
                      > It also appears that the EAA Newsletter,
                      > CurrentEvents, has a knack for
                      > publishing very misleading articles on this topic.
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > [Non-text portions of this message have been
                      > removed]
                      >
                      >






                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • Ron Cochran
                      I have learned that the problem with the USA Today link is that not all of the link is being highlighted in that purple color, when it goes out onto the List.
                      Message 10 of 11 , Jun 5, 2008
                        I have learned that the problem with the USA Today link is that not all of
                        the link is being highlighted in that purple color, when it goes out onto
                        the List. I think it works if you are sure to have the "-pollution_n.htm "
                        part on the end of the address.

                        Ron

                        _____

                        From: future-fuels-and-vehicles@yahoogroups.com
                        [mailto:future-fuels-and-vehicles@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Ron Cochran
                        Sent: Thursday, June 05, 2008 10:13 AM
                        To: future-fuels-and-vehicles@yahoogroups.com
                        Subject: RE: [future-fuels-and-vehicles] EV CO2 Emissions



                        Yadda and anyone else who tried to go to the USA Today article link that I
                        posted. I am not sure why, but my link does not seem to work properly as it
                        came out on the List. Try instead to just paste the address :
                        http://www.usatoday
                        <http://www.usatoday.com/tech/products/environment/2008-02-25-plug-in-hybrid
                        s> .com/tech/products/environment/2008-02-25-plug-in-hybrids
                        -pollution_n.htm into your browser.

                        Ron

                        _____

                        From: future-fuels- <mailto:future-fuels-and-vehicles%40yahoogroups.com>
                        and-vehicles@yahoogroups.com
                        [mailto:future-fuels- <mailto:future-fuels-and-vehicles%40yahoogroups.com>
                        and-vehicles@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Yodda Pierce
                        Sent: Thursday, June 05, 2008 12:09 AM
                        To: future-fuels- <mailto:future-fuels-and-vehicles%40yahoogroups.com>
                        and-vehicles@yahoogroups.com
                        Subject: Re: [future-fuels-and-vehicles] EV CO2 Emissions

                        Hi Ron,

                        Sorry I missed the article. All I got is a blank page.

                        Yodda

                        --- Ron Cochran <rcochran@ec. <mailto:rcochran%40ec.rr.com> rr.com> wrote:

                        > It would appear that erroneous information about the
                        > CO2 emissions of EV's
                        > is rampant.
                        >
                        > I am surprised that I have not read any rantings on
                        > this List about an
                        > article published in the February 25, 2008 issue of
                        > USA Today. The article,
                        > which was also featured in the May issue of
                        > CurrentEvents, was entitled
                        > "Plus-in cars could actually increase air
                        > pollution". You can read it at
                        > Yodda Pierce
                        >
                        [http://www.usatoday
                        <http://www.usatoday
                        <http://www.usatoday.com/tech/products/environment/2008-02-25-plug-in-hybrid
                        > .com/tech/products/environment/2008-02-25-plug-in-hybrid
                        > .com/tech/products/environment/2008-02-25-plug-in-hybrid
                        > s-pollution_n.htm]. Among other things, the article
                        > indicated that when a
                        > plug-in hybrid car is running on the battery (that
                        > is, when it is acting
                        > like a BEV), it can result in more CO2 emissions
                        > (from the electric
                        > generating plant) than an ICE car does.
                        >
                        > Extensive discussions on this List in March, '08
                        > concluded that a BEV
                        > actually emits about 60% less CO2 than an ICE car.
                        >
                        > It is extremely unfortunate that a widely read paper
                        > like USA Today would
                        > get it so wrong! I am sure that article mislead a
                        > large number of people.
                        > It also appears that the EAA Newsletter,
                        > CurrentEvents, has a knack for
                        > publishing very misleading articles on this topic.
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > [Non-text portions of this message have been
                        > removed]
                        >
                        >

                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • murdoch
                        Hi: This is a reason that people use those Tiny URL type websites. By shortening a lengthy web addrerss we can minimize these instances of web address
                        Message 11 of 11 , Jun 5, 2008
                          Hi:

                          This is a reason that people use those "Tiny URL" type websites. By
                          shortening a lengthy web addrerss we can minimize these instances of
                          web address confusion.

                          Here is a Tiny URL I just made for the USA Today Article in question:

                          http://tinyurl.com/59sshd

                          Here is where to go if you want to make your own tiny URL in the
                          future on some other lengthy web address:

                          http://tinyurl.com/

                          Here are instructions for setting up your browser to make it easy to
                          use Tiny URL:

                          http://tinyurl.com/#toolbar



                          [Default] On Thu, 5 Jun 2008 10:19:27 -0400, "Ron Cochran"
                          <rcochran@...> wrote:

                          >I have learned that the problem with the USA Today link is that not all of
                          >the link is being highlighted in that purple color, when it goes out onto
                          >the List. I think it works if you are sure to have the "-pollution_n.htm "
                          >part on the end of the address.
                          >
                          >Ron
                          >
                          > _____
                          >
                          >From: future-fuels-and-vehicles@yahoogroups.com
                          >[mailto:future-fuels-and-vehicles@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Ron Cochran
                          >Sent: Thursday, June 05, 2008 10:13 AM
                          >To: future-fuels-and-vehicles@yahoogroups.com
                          >Subject: RE: [future-fuels-and-vehicles] EV CO2 Emissions
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >Yadda and anyone else who tried to go to the USA Today article link that I
                          >posted. I am not sure why, but my link does not seem to work properly as it
                          >came out on the List. Try instead to just paste the address :
                          >http://www.usatoday
                          ><http://www.usatoday.com/tech/products/environment/2008-02-25-plug-in-hybrid
                          >s> .com/tech/products/environment/2008-02-25-plug-in-hybrids
                          >-pollution_n.htm into your browser.
                          >
                          >Ron
                          >
                          >_____
                          >
                          >From: future-fuels- <mailto:future-fuels-and-vehicles%40yahoogroups.com>
                          >and-vehicles@yahoogroups.com
                          >[mailto:future-fuels- <mailto:future-fuels-and-vehicles%40yahoogroups.com>
                          >and-vehicles@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Yodda Pierce
                          >Sent: Thursday, June 05, 2008 12:09 AM
                          >To: future-fuels- <mailto:future-fuels-and-vehicles%40yahoogroups.com>
                          >and-vehicles@yahoogroups.com
                          >Subject: Re: [future-fuels-and-vehicles] EV CO2 Emissions
                          >
                          >Hi Ron,
                          >
                          >Sorry I missed the article. All I got is a blank page.
                          >
                          >Yodda
                          >
                          >--- Ron Cochran <rcochran@ec. <mailto:rcochran%40ec.rr.com> rr.com> wrote:
                          >
                          >> It would appear that erroneous information about the
                          >> CO2 emissions of EV's
                          >> is rampant.
                          >>
                          >> I am surprised that I have not read any rantings on
                          >> this List about an
                          >> article published in the February 25, 2008 issue of
                          >> USA Today. The article,
                          >> which was also featured in the May issue of
                          >> CurrentEvents, was entitled
                          >> "Plus-in cars could actually increase air
                          >> pollution". You can read it at
                          >> Yodda Pierce
                          >>
                          >[http://www.usatoday
                          ><http://www.usatoday
                          ><http://www.usatoday.com/tech/products/environment/2008-02-25-plug-in-hybrid
                          >> .com/tech/products/environment/2008-02-25-plug-in-hybrid
                          >> .com/tech/products/environment/2008-02-25-plug-in-hybrid
                          >> s-pollution_n.htm]. Among other things, the article
                          >> indicated that when a
                          >> plug-in hybrid car is running on the battery (that
                          >> is, when it is acting
                          >> like a BEV), it can result in more CO2 emissions
                          >> (from the electric
                          >> generating plant) than an ICE car does.
                          >>
                          >> Extensive discussions on this List in March, '08
                          >> concluded that a BEV
                          >> actually emits about 60% less CO2 than an ICE car.
                          >>
                          >> It is extremely unfortunate that a widely read paper
                          >> like USA Today would
                          >> get it so wrong! I am sure that article mislead a
                          >> large number of people.
                          >> It also appears that the EAA Newsletter,
                          >> CurrentEvents, has a knack for
                          >> publishing very misleading articles on this topic.
                          >>
                          >>
                          >>
                          >>
                          >> [Non-text portions of this message have been
                          >> removed]
                          >>
                          >>
                          >
                          >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          >
                          >
                          >------------------------------------
                          >
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                          >
                          >
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