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Re: [future-fuels-and-vehicles] Re: (fwd) As Gas Costs Soar, Buyers Flock to Small Cars

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  • murdoch
    [Default] On Mon, 05 May 2008 20:44:49 -0000, jmygann ... Hi: Here are examples. http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/byfuel/EV2001.shtml (I must emphasize that
    Message 1 of 10 , May 5, 2008
      [Default] On Mon, 05 May 2008 20:44:49 -0000, "jmygann"
      <jmygann@...> wrote:

      >what / where are the "100 mpg-equivalent plug-in cars " ?

      Hi:

      Here are examples.

      http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/byfuel/EV2001.shtml

      (I must emphasize that this is not a complete list: ... there were
      several other highway capable California ZEV Mandate vehicles around
      that time such as the Ford Ranger EV, Chevy S-10 EV, GM EV1, Honda EV+
      and I think some of these also would have yielded the equivalent of
      100 mpg.)


      > City Highway Combined
      >Toyota RAV4 EV 117 91 104
      >Nissan Hyper-Mini 120 94 107
      >Ford Th!nk 106 83 94

      According to Wikipedia, the Nissan could hit 62 mph and the Ford Th!nk
      city 56 mph, but I had thought the Ford could do 62 mph. The Toyota
      could do about 78 mph.
    • jmygann
      The problem is still the range. The new technology is too costly for most folks and so the number of high tech vehicles never gets realized. Why do we have to
      Message 2 of 10 , May 6, 2008
        The problem is still the range.

        The new technology is too costly for most folks and so the number of
        high tech vehicles never gets realized.

        Why do we have to drive so fast ? Those days may be numbered



        --- In future-fuels-and-vehicles@yahoogroups.com, murdoch
        <murdoch@...> wrote:
        >
        >
        >
        > [Default] On Mon, 05 May 2008 20:44:49 -0000, "jmygann"
        > <jmygann@...> wrote:
        >
        > >what / where are the "100 mpg-equivalent plug-in cars " ?
        >
        > Hi:
        >
        > Here are examples.
        >
        > http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/byfuel/EV2001.shtml
        >
        > (I must emphasize that this is not a complete list: ... there were
        > several other highway capable California ZEV Mandate vehicles around
        > that time such as the Ford Ranger EV, Chevy S-10 EV, GM EV1, Honda
        EV+
        > and I think some of these also would have yielded the equivalent of
        > 100 mpg.)
        >
        >
        > > City Highway Combined
        > >Toyota RAV4 EV 117 91 104
        > >Nissan Hyper-Mini 120 94 107
        > >Ford Th!nk 106 83 94
        >
        > According to Wikipedia, the Nissan could hit 62 mph and the Ford Th!
        nk
        > city 56 mph, but I had thought the Ford could do 62 mph. The Toyota
        > could do about 78 mph.
        >
      • Mark Garvey
        I went through the 73 oil Crisis . and we did not learn the lessons presented then. DIRECTLY after 1973, THe USA began buying small cars and efficient
        Message 3 of 10 , May 6, 2008
          I went through the '73 "oil Crisis". and we did not learn the lessons
          presented then. DIRECTLY after 1973, THe USA began buying small cars and
          efficient cars. My VW beetle got 35 mpg. Ford made a Pinto 4 cyl and the
          Maverick 6 cyl. chevy made the Chevette 4 cyl and one version got about 50
          mpg! One of the car magazines did a feature on the Chevette that claimed
          that you could drive ACROSS THE USA for under $50. That was with $1 a
          gallon gas. (they DID it by the way.

          there are people out there who can get 100 mpg PLUS from standard cars. But
          the lessons did not stick...We moved slowly to huge vehicles and gas
          guzzlers again. Even worse than before. Heck, my 1965 Chrysler Newport got
          an HONEST 22 mpg on the highway! a 383 V-8!

          I think that cars are fine, but are misused. We need to be careful of fuel.
          No, you won't get to prosperity by NOT burning gas or something, but you can
          drive yourself into poverty by EXCESSIVE use of it. What we need to do is
          demand that the auto companies import the vehicles that they produce in
          Europe that ALREADY get 40 mpg....They say it is too hard to get to the 35
          mpg goal of 2020...but they ALREADY DO IT in Europe!

          mark

          On Mon, May 5, 2008 at 11:40 AM, murdoch <murdoch@...> wrote:

          >
          >
          > All the major auto companies had 100 mpg-equivalent plug-in cars that
          > they developed for the California ZEV Mandate program. They
          > deliberately refused to sell those vehicles to consumers and in most
          > cases crushed them, leaving a few exceptions in the hands of consumers
          > after some fairly heroic protesting by activists.
          >
          > If those vehicles existed today, I wonder if the automakers could sell
          > them based on the mileage they get.
          >
          > For examples, here are the 100 mpg-equivalent figures from the
          > government for 2001 ZEV mandate vehicles.
          >
          > http://www.nytimes.com/2008/05/02/business/02auto.html?_r=1&oref=slogin
          >
          > >The switch to smaller, more fuel-efficient vehicles has been
          > >building in recent years, but has accelerated recently with
          > >the advent of $3.50-a-gallon gas. At the same time, sales of
          > >pickup trucks and large sport utility vehicles have dropped
          > >sharply.
          > >
          > >In another first, fuel-sipping four-cylinder engines
          > >surpassed six-cylinder models in popularity in April.
          > >
          > >"It's easily the most dramatic segment shift I have
          > >witnessed in the market in my 31 years here," said George
          > >Pipas, chief sales analyst for the Ford Motor Company.
          >
          > ------------------------------------
          >
          > Yahoo! Groups Links
          >
          >
          >
          >


          --
          Give a man a fish and feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish and feed him
          for a lifetime. Teach a man to cycle and he will realize fishing is stupid
          and boring. �Desmond Tutu


          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • murdoch
          [Default] On Tue, 6 May 2008 19:23:50 -0500, Mark Garvey wrote: [...] ... Good point. Not only do they ALREADY make the cars they
          Message 4 of 10 , May 6, 2008
            [Default] On Tue, 6 May 2008 19:23:50 -0500, "Mark Garvey"
            <lazybee45@...> wrote:

            [...]

            >I think that cars are fine, but are misused. We need to be careful of fuel.
            >No, you won't get to prosperity by NOT burning gas or something, but you can
            >drive yourself into poverty by EXCESSIVE use of it. What we need to do is
            >demand that the auto companies import the vehicles that they produce in
            >Europe that ALREADY get 40 mpg....They say it is too hard to get to the 35
            >mpg goal of 2020...but they ALREADY DO IT in Europe!
            >
            >mark

            Good point. Not only do they ALREADY make the cars they claim in the
            USA that they can't make, but on a broad geographic basis they're
            making decent money at it. When the car companies recently announced
            quarterly results, the USA was the problem area. In other parts of
            the world they seemed to be doing ok. I can't say what their exact
            model breakdown is, but on the balance their mix outside the US seems
            to include the somewhat higher-mileage vehicles they claim in the US
            that they can't make.
          • Lee Dekker
            Car companies like to say, they are only providing the cars customers want to buy. That is at least partly true but car companies also spend a lot of
            Message 5 of 10 , May 6, 2008
              Car companies like to say, they are only providing the cars customers want to buy. That is at least partly true but car companies also spend a lot of advertising and PR dollars bent on persuading the public to buy the types of vehicles the car companies want to sell.

              The car companies also told us flatly that no matter what they did, no one really wanted an all electric car. Car companies did tip their hand a bit when they told us with confidence that no one would ever want to buy an EV. After all, how could the car companies know something like that unless it was their intention to make it so?

              --- On Tue, 5/6/08, murdoch <murdoch@...> wrote:
              From: murdoch <murdoch@...>
              Subject: Re: [future-fuels-and-vehicles] (fwd) As Gas Costs Soar, Buyers Flock to Small Cars
              To: future-fuels-and-vehicles@yahoogroups.com
              Date: Tuesday, May 6, 2008, 9:49 PM











              [Default] On Tue, 6 May 2008 19:23:50 -0500, "Mark Garvey"

              <lazybee45@gmail. com> wrote:



              [...]



              >I think that cars are fine, but are misused. We need to be careful of fuel.

              >No, you won't get to prosperity by NOT burning gas or something, but you can

              >drive yourself into poverty by EXCESSIVE use of it. What we need to do is

              >demand that the auto companies import the vehicles that they produce in

              >Europe that ALREADY get 40 mpg....They say it is too hard to get to the 35

              >mpg goal of 2020...but they ALREADY DO IT in Europe!

              >

              >mark



              Good point. Not only do they ALREADY make the cars they claim in the

              USA that they can't make, but on a broad geographic basis they're

              making decent money at it. When the car companies recently announced

              quarterly results, the USA was the problem area. In other parts of

              the world they seemed to be doing ok. I can't say what their exact

              model breakdown is, but on the balance their mix outside the US seems

              to include the somewhat higher-mileage vehicles they claim in the US

              that they can't make.

























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            • Linda
              ... Cars in the U.S. that are of the same model as the ones in Europe are generally a bit larger and heavier here than they are there. We may require
              Message 6 of 10 , May 7, 2008
                On 5/6/08 11:49 PM, murdoch wrote:

                >> I think that cars are fine, but are misused. We need to be careful of fuel.
                >> No, you won't get to prosperity by NOT burning gas or something, but you can
                >> drive yourself into poverty by EXCESSIVE use of it. What we need to do is
                >> demand that the auto companies import the vehicles that they produce in
                >> Europe that ALREADY get 40 mpg....They say it is too hard to get to the 35
                >> mpg goal of 2020...but they ALREADY DO IT in Europe!
                >>
                >> mark
                >
                > Good point. Not only do they ALREADY make the cars they claim in the
                > USA that they can't make, but on a broad geographic basis they're
                > making decent money at it. When the car companies recently announced
                > quarterly results, the USA was the problem area. In other parts of
                > the world they seemed to be doing ok. I can't say what their exact
                > model breakdown is, but on the balance their mix outside the US seems
                > to include the somewhat higher-mileage vehicles they claim in the US
                > that they can't make.

                Cars in the U.S. that are of the same model as the ones in Europe are
                generally a bit larger and heavier here than they are there. We may require
                additional emissions controls on them, and additional hardware/structural
                material so that they pass U.S. safety standards. Add to that the fact that
                many of these high-MPG European cars are diesels, and not necessarily the
                technologically-improved diesel the U.S. requires.

                What I'm driving at is that companies can't simply import the exact same car
                from Europe to the U.S. Look, for example, at the time and modifications
                necessary to begin importing the Smart ForTwo here in the U.S.
              • Lee Dekker
                To a degree, your points are correct. Keep in mind that car companies strive to make their products as identical as possible from country to country in an
                Message 7 of 10 , May 7, 2008
                  To a degree, your points are correct. Keep in mind that car companies strive to make their products as identical as possible from country to country in an effort to simplify manufacturing and service needs. They do this because it saves them money.

                  --- On Wed, 5/7/08, Linda <saveearth@...> wrote:
                  From: Linda <saveearth@...>
                  Subject: Re: [future-fuels-and-vehicles] (fwd) As Gas Costs Soar, Buyers Flock to Small Cars
                  To: future-fuels-and-vehicles@yahoogroups.com
                  Date: Wednesday, May 7, 2008, 10:47 AM











                  On 5/6/08 11:49 PM, murdoch wrote:



                  >> I think that cars are fine, but are misused. We need to be careful of fuel.

                  >> No, you won't get to prosperity by NOT burning gas or something, but you can

                  >> drive yourself into poverty by EXCESSIVE use of it. What we need to do is

                  >> demand that the auto companies import the vehicles that they produce in

                  >> Europe that ALREADY get 40 mpg....They say it is too hard to get to the 35

                  >> mpg goal of 2020...but they ALREADY DO IT in Europe!

                  >>

                  >> mark

                  >

                  > Good point. Not only do they ALREADY make the cars they claim in the

                  > USA that they can't make, but on a broad geographic basis they're

                  > making decent money at it. When the car companies recently announced

                  > quarterly results, the USA was the problem area. In other parts of

                  > the world they seemed to be doing ok. I can't say what their exact

                  > model breakdown is, but on the balance their mix outside the US seems

                  > to include the somewhat higher-mileage vehicles they claim in the US

                  > that they can't make.



                  Cars in the U.S. that are of the same model as the ones in Europe are

                  generally a bit larger and heavier here than they are there. We may require

                  additional emissions controls on them, and additional hardware/structural

                  material so that they pass U.S. safety standards. Add to that the fact that

                  many of these high-MPG European cars are diesels, and not necessarily the

                  technologically- improved diesel the U.S. requires.



                  What I'm driving at is that companies can't simply import the exact same car

                  from Europe to the U.S. Look, for example, at the time and modifications

                  necessary to begin importing the Smart ForTwo here in the U.S.



























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                  know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ
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