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RE: [future-fuels-and-vehicles] Diesel Vs. Electric Pros And Cons

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  • Yodda Pierce
    Right, we need to agree and validate the numbers we are using as correct data before running any numbers(equations). I searched the web for precise fuel
    Message 1 of 11 , Mar 4 7:00 AM
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      Right, we need to agree and validate the numbers we
      are using as correct data before running any
      numbers(equations). I searched the web for precise
      fuel economy numbers for delivery trucks, and it is
      difficult to find data, but as I said I found a site
      that specifically addressed mail delivery trucks that
      get like 3.5 -4 times better range than the diesel
      equivalent for equal energy used (see figure 12 of PDF
      file). I think we need to go further and specify
      city, or highway driving, vehicle weight, drag. We
      need like comparisons for the study here to be worth
      the words we type. But let's take a look at the fuel
      economy of cars we know about that have been DOE
      tested so we can at least be in the ball park for our
      assumptions. GM-EV-1 is one of the best with a fuel
      economy of 150 -300 Wh/mile, then small SUV and light
      duty trucks get about 350-500 Wh/mile. So if cars are
      150-300 Wh/mile fuel economy and are around 2000-4000
      pounds, SUV, light truck, and minivan is like 300-500
      Wh/mile, then we are probably looking at medium size
      trucks up to 10,000 pounds being 500-1000 Wh/mile. My
      guess is about 800/Wh/mile but we need to find out for
      sure instead of speculating.

      link for postal truck diesel/electric comparisons:

      www.tc.gc.ca/TDC/publication/pdf/13500/13528e.pdf

      Another thing I have to dispute is electricity fuel
      cost. I think Ernie stated it cost 10 cents a KWh,
      but where I live the cost is 3-5 cents off-peak or on
      EV rates. These fuel cost make a HUGE difference in a
      cost-benefit analysis.


      --- Lee <leerenna@...> wrote:

      >
      > I do appreciate all the estimates and I'm surely no
      > engineer, I think the best solution for us all is to
      > see a real world electric truck in action. Once we
      > know for sure its energy usage per mile and cost per
      > kwh where it is operated we can all agree on a
      > figure. Am I wrong, or did I hear something about
      > UPS or maybe the US Postal service using electric
      > trucks for inter-city deliveries?
      >
      > To: future-fuels-and-vehicles@yahoogroups.com
      > From: murdoch@...
      > Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2008 12:21:23 -0700
      > Subject: Re: [future-fuels-and-vehicles] Diesel Vs.
      > Electric Pros And Cons
      >
      >
      >
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      > Guys:
      >
      >
      >
      > Ernie has asked us to notice that he assigned an
      > estimate of 20 mpg to
      >
      > the EV and 10 mpg to the diesel. He did this by
      > first assigning 10
      >
      > mpg(equivalent) to the EV and then assuming regen
      > braking and (perhaps
      >
      > other efficiencies?) would roughly double the net
      > mpg(equivalent) of
      >
      > the EV. He wrote:
      >
      >
      >
      > [...]
      >
      >
      >
      > >EV: kWh used per day: 200 mi /(10 mi/gal) x 38
      > kWh /0.70 = 1086 kWh /day.
      >
      > >Assume 50% saved by regen braking-- net kWh needed
      > per day is 1086 x 0.5 =
      >
      > >543 kWh /day.
      >
      >
      >
      > [...]
      >
      >
      >
      > All-in-all, as over-simplifications go, it doesn't
      > seem "that" bad,
      >
      > pending our educating ourselves as to the ins and
      > outs of Heavy-EV
      >
      > real-world mileage and battery capacities.
      >
      >
      >
      > The main issue would seem to be not so much his
      > mileage and fuel cost
      >
      > estimates (which are a comparatively modest part of
      > his equation,
      >
      > though certainly interesting to examine and debate)
      > but for us to work
      >
      > together to get a handle on his cost estimates for
      > batteries and
      >
      > replacements and timing.
      >
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    • murdoch
      That s a great document find, thank you for posting it. www.tc.gc.ca/TDC/publication/pdf/13500/13528e.pdf [...] A quote from the document [note: the EV was
      Message 2 of 11 , Mar 4 9:30 AM
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        That's a great document find, thank you for posting it.


        www.tc.gc.ca/TDC/publication/pdf/13500/13528e.pdf

        [...]

        A quote from the document [note: the EV was equipped with a
        hydrocarbon powered heater]

        >It is estimated that the 24-hour, 30 km duty cycle for the ICE vehicle in an environment of
        >20°C and idling time of 1 hour, required 51.5 kWh of energy, equivalent to a consumption of
        >4.92 L of gasoline. The vehicle produced emissions of 266.1 g CO, 14 g CO2, 22.6 g NOx, and
        >40.8 g THC. The electric counterpart for the same 24-hour duty cycle used one quarter the energy
        >at 14 AC kWh, and emitted no CO, CO2, or NOx, and only a few grams of THC, from the
        >evaporative emissions of the heater fuel.
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