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5405Re: [evworld] Re: Batteries

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  • murdoch
    Oct 8, 2005
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      >But
      >every single limitation of the battery electric vehicle that I've been able to think of,
      >all leads back to the battery. The next question one must ask oneself is, has battery
      >technology already reached its zenith. If we listen to General Motors and others, this is
      >the case. They claim that they've given up on the battery and have moved on to the
      >hydrogen fuel cell. What they actually claim is that they've given up on the electric
      >vehicle, but we all know a hydrogen fuel cell vehicle is nothing but an electric vehicle
      >that gets its electricity from the fuel cell.

      Also, I think there is a bit of a grey area here, such as with
      Graham's Boron proposals, or others', or some of the more exotic
      technologies we hear about (which are probably only a taste of things
      to come, in terms of breakthroughs we can't specifically predict but
      can generally anticipate based on looking at the overall history and
      potential of the new research). Over the last 15 years, just to give
      an example, several companies have hinted at a "grey area" between
      fuel cells and batteries, in terms of using some sort of zinc-based
      scheme, to some extent "fueling up" but to some extent it is a
      battery.

      Likewise, another example is that zinc-air based batteries tend to
      need to be "rebuilt" rather than recharged (I guess), but once fresh
      in a vehicle they can power it and I do think there has been such a
      thing as a zinc-air powered bus, with a scheme for rebuilding the
      batteries back at the home base, though maybe it was only a hybrid.


      >Possibly the battery has run up against a technological brick wall. Possibly General
      >Motors is being genuine and does not have a hidden agenda in their campaign to explain to
      >us why they have given up on the battery electric vehicle. But while General Motors and
      >US Car may have given up,

      I thought that one of the interesting things about this week's news is
      that GM is selling their stake in Fuji Heavy, a company which either
      has battery tech and-or is collaborating with NEC, which has good
      lithium battery tech (apparently) to produce a BEV. So, for the
      second time in 10 years (their work with ECD and Ovonics being the
      first time), GM is inexplicably moving aggressively away from
      ownership and access to some of the very best large-format advanced
      batteries on the planet.

      >others still have some hope for the battery. My belief is that
      >battery technology is still in its infancy.

      To some extent, I tend to hope along the same lines... more room for
      improvement there...

      >Materials science along with growing need
      >from all sectors of society may still produce some very pleasant and exciting battery
      >technology surprises for us in the future.
      >
      >Why should a battery be any different than the gas tank? Why can't a battery be superior
      >to a fuel tank?

      I do think there is an issue here. Because of the nature of how our
      world seems to be set up, the energy density of these liquid fuels
      seems to be very high, and thus leads to such things as superior range
      and such. I'm not sure if batteries as we know them can match up or
      approach competing, on that score. That doesn't invalidate your
      points (plenty of room for improvement with batteries, and even as
      they are, they are in my view more than adequate for more
      transportation purposes than seem to be generally allowed in press
      reports).

      >If the battery can be recharged in about the same amount of time it takes
      >to fill the fuel tank, that eliminates one of the biggest gripes. If the battery can be
      >made to work in all weather conditions, another common gripe goes by the wayside. And if
      >range can be achieved similar to that of liquid fuel vehicles, no one will have that to
      >complain about. There or still cost and environmental and other issues to consider but I
      >see no brick wall.
      >
      >Why couldn't a large truck be a pure battery vehicle? What, other than our current
      >perceptions or misperceptions makes something like this impossible. It's tough to twist
      >our minds in new ways and as we predict the future were sure to look like fools at times.
      >There is also a lot of inertia to break through, as with any new concept. The electric
      >vehicle is generally understood to have certain characteristics. Even people who are
      >usually up on the latest technologies and are knowledgeable about vehicles in particular
      >will often hold some very incorrect views about electric vehicles. Battery electric
      >trucks may still be a long way off but the view of all electric vehicles as being slugs
      >on the road is about to be shattered.
      >
      >The Toyota Prius is a very neat car and has obviously made a huge splash. But a muscle
      >car or a sports car it's not. But with the Lexus hybrid SUV we are seeing the beginnings
      >of what electric drive can do to enhance performance. With the Lexus 450H, the perception
      >of electric drive as being inherently slow will be confronted directly. It won't take too
      >long for people to put two and two together and realize that electric motors are not only
      >the best way but by far the fastest way to move the vehicle. As perceptions change, so
      >will products. For now our best bet to help things move along is to promote the plug-in
      >hybrid electric vehicle, "the gateway vehicle" as Murdoch has so cleverly put it. Beyond
      >that we need to keep our minds open for much better things to come. Because electric
      >motors are the best choice for powering big trucks for the same reasons they are the best
      >choice for powering locomotives and other machinery. It's just a question of how we're
      >going to get the electricity to them.
      >
      >
      >--- Arcologic@... wrote:
      >
      >>
      >> Lee, got milk?
      >>
      >> Were you thinking of using an ET (electric truck) to haul your groceries?
      >> Or, how about the transporter that brings your EV from the factory?
      >>
      >> A huge share of transportation fuel goes to vehicles not suited for battery
      >> power. We need to continue research on more efficient and clean diesel
      >> engines, running on non-fossil fuel of course.
      >>
      >> An electric drive /motor behind the diesel engine might be a good
      >> improvement, don't know. For heavy duty trucks, another pressing need is some
      >> leadership toward better aerodynamic design.
      >>
      >> Ernie Rogers
      >>
      >> Lee said,
      >>
      >> Biofuels will be one important part of the solution.
      >> > But using electricity for world
      >> > transportation will be the ultimate answer. Even
      >> > biofuels will be much more practical
      >> > and efficient when used in an electric drive
      >> > vehicle.
      >>
      >>
      >>
      >>
      >>
      >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >>
      >>
      >
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