13113Re: [future-fuels-and-vehicles] Re: Envisioning a Small Electric BMW for the World's Very Big Cities
- Jul 7, 2010Page 93 Heath Earth Science published by McDougal Littell in 1994:
"Coal, petroleum, and natural gas are called FOSSIL FUELS because they formed from the remains of plants and animals that lived long ago." The accepted traditional understanding of how coal is formed ( which has been taught in our public school science classes for over 100 years) is that dead plants lose most of their hydrogen and oxygen over the ages as they are squeezed by tremendous pressure under the ground. First peat is formed, then (they say) after millions of years of more pressure the peat gradually becomes coal. The word petroleum means rock oil. Scientists think that petroleum was made by slow chemical changes in plant and animal materials buried under sand and clay in shallow in coastal waters. Some of the hydrocarbons formed were gases and others liquids. The gases and liquids were squeezed into the pores of nearby rock formations and some got trapped... the rest rose to the surface and escaped."
Simply put, fossil fuels are OLD... like plant and animal fossils. Oil and gas do not come from fossils but rather the oil and coal were formed under the same conditions as fossils and most likely believed to be from the same period of time.
I have read recently that our age old accepted theory of how coal and oil are formed is theoretical and that perhaps the process does not take millions of years as has been taught. Maybe somebody in our chat list can do some research and update us on the latest accepted theories.
Thanks for the question and stimulating our minds.
On Jul 7, 2010, at 11:29 AM, Dave wrote:
> Dr. Cochran, why do you call them fossil fuels? Do you know that oil and gas are made from decayed dinosaurs and animals, or do you use that term "fossil fuels" because everyone else has used it? Do you lump biodiesel in with fossil fuels? It's not brought from out of the ground. Do you lump methane or natural gas in with fossil fuels when methane happens after you eat too many beans? Methane is not limited. It's being created in swamps continually. From what I've read, oil and gas, it's being discovered, do not actually come from decayed animals. Am I wrong in that, or do you know verifiably that oil and gas come from fossils? Aren't fossils merely impressions in rock that was once mud made by an extinct animal or creature? How could fuel or oil come from this? Is the term "fossil fuel" a myth? If so, who started it, and why do we perpetuate it? Why don't we just call it oil instead of lumping it all in under some vague politically-charged phrase like "fossil fu
> els"? Are we a bunch of meat-heads?
> --- In email@example.com, "Ron Cochran" <rcochran@...> wrote:
>> I'm sorry to say that I agree with your analysis. I believe that Americans
>> will continue to make car decisions according to the same simple formula
>> that they have been taught for decades - "how do I get the most features for
>> the least money?". And based on that simple decision model, ICE's will
>> continue to win until either a much improved battery is invented or until
>> (as you say) the price of oil finally gets so high that EV's begin to win on
>> cost alone. That also means that we will continue toward making our planet
>> unlivable until the economics of fossil fuels happens to change things.
>> Still, that change needs to be guided by Groups like this one.
>> R.L. Cochran, Ph.D.
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: firstname.lastname@example.org
>> [mailto:email@example.com] On Behalf Of Oliver Perry
>> Sent: Monday, July 05, 2010 12:26 PM
>> To: firstname.lastname@example.org
>> Subject: Re: [future-fuels-and-vehicles] Envisioning a Small Electric BMW
>> for the World's Very Big Cities
>> Thanks for the news clipping.
>> Our nation's lighting once ran on Whale oil. At that time it was recorded
>> that someone said, that the black stuff coming out of the ground would not
>> be used until we ran out of whales. Now it seems as if the electric highway
>> will not become a reality, even in large cities, until fossil fuels become
>> so hard to get that their price exceeds the alternative. It is interesting
>> that more and more major car companies seem to be jumping on the electric
>> bandwagon. But, I fear much of it is for hype and the raising of awareness
>> for their brand names. As someone else also said, hydrocarbon fuels contain
>> so much energy per pound that if we had not discovered them we would have
>> invented them. So far it has been cheaper and more efficient for nations to
>> clean up the pollution side of fossil fuels than to switch to alternatives,
>> even in face of the Gulf disaster, which is providing jobs and even newer
>> technology for the clean up. Do we wish something horrible like the
>> Chernoble nuclear accident to happen in the fossil fuel world to turn the
>> masses off from our addiction to the use of fossil fuels? The fear of
>> radiation and the high cost of protection has limited the nuclear industry.
>> Nothing comparable has happened in the ICE world, at least in the minds of
>> the masses here on earth. When you realize that probably the most powerful
>> companies and governments in the world are firmly established in the oll and
>> coal business it is easy to conclude that electric vehicle dominance, even
>> in highly populated cities, is going to be very slow in coming... even
>> though an integrated EV system might be a superior system. These huge
>> powerbrokers have the resources to dictate how the energy game is going to
>> be played for years. Do you feel that even the mighty Obama who promised us
>> change has changed his tune since his campaign for the White House? Not even
>> Obama, for all his talk, has free reign to turn the monopoly table upside
>> down. He is just another small player sitting on the corner hoping that the
>> dice will fall in his favor. We will know that things are changing when
>> large investors begin to invest in alternative ways of distributing energy.
>> Some have tried but the latest findings have concluded that it is still an
>> economic gamble to plunge whole hog into the green energy movement. When
>> the risk is lower then I think change will occur at a faster pace.
>> Unfortunately honest people cannot sincerely encourage somebody with limited
>> resources to invest in green energy projects. I invested in a company on the
>> advice of a close friend whose son had left IBM to form the company,about
>> 15 years ago, and so far I have lost most of what I invested. But,, I did it
>> because I was willing to help the cause, knowing it was a risk.
>> I think electric transportation is neat and a great thing. But, it is still
>> a hard sell when considering financial profitability.
>> Thanks again for your enthusiasm.
>> Ollie Perry
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