Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Re: [furt-l] Furtwangler Great conductor of the century

Expand Messages
  • Alain L Perron
    Beethoven: 3rd symphony 4 september 1953 5th symphony 7 february 1944 on Emi IMg Great conductor of the Century Those interpretations are not listen in
    Message 1 of 26 , Jul 12, 2004
    • 0 Attachment
      Beethoven: 3rd symphony 4 september 1953
      5th symphony 7 february 1944 on Emi IMg Great conductor of the Century

      Those interpretations are not listen in Olsen, HUnt, Tremine or Gefen catalog.

      Where those new publications came from??? Available at amazon.co.uk

      Alain L Perron





      -- Alain L Perron <caliwwero@...> wrote: > Most of Wilhelm Furtw ngler's known recordings
      (both live and in the studio) are now available
      > on
      > CD, so this compilation of Beethoven is particularly important in offering two previously
      > unreleased live recordings (of the Fifth Symphony from Berlin in 1944 and of the 'Eroica' from
      > Vienna in 1953) and a third (of the 9th Symphony given in London in 1937) that has only
      > previously
      > been available on CD in Japan.
      >
      > Catalogue number: 5 62875 2 (2CDs for the price of 1 mid-price CD). Bar code: 7243 5 62875 2 5
      >
      >
      > Look the Emi website.
      > And a new Celibidache edition too.
      >
      > Alain
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > __________________________________
      > Do you Yahoo!?
      > Yahoo! Mail Address AutoComplete - You start. We finish.
      > http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
      > -------------------------------------------------------------------------
      > * POSTED to furt-l - the Furtwangler Mailing List
      > * Send new posts to furt-l@...
      > * To unsubscribe, go to http:// www.thump.org/furtl.html
      > * Archives at: http://www.findmail.com/list/furt-l/
      > --------------------------------------------------------------------------
      >

      ______________________________________________________________________
      Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca
      -------------------------------------------------------------------------
      * POSTED to furt-l - the Furtwangler Mailing List
      * Send new posts to furt-l@...
      * To unsubscribe, go to http:// www.thump.org/furtl.html
      * Archives at: http://www.findmail.com/list/furt-l/
      --------------------------------------------------------------------------
    • Johan Groenewald
      Hi Can anybody please tell us something about the new performances e.g. how the 4 September 1953 VPO Eroica compares with the 30 November 1952 VPO and 7 and 8
      Message 2 of 26 , Jul 19, 2004
      • 0 Attachment
        Hi

        Can anybody please tell us something about the new performances e.g. how the 4 September 1953 VPO Eroica compares with the 30 November 1952 VPO and 7 and 8 December 1952 BPO. And the 5th with Furtwangler's wartime DG BPO?

        Thanks

        Johan Groenewald

        >>> caliwwero@... 04:43:35 12 July 2004 >>>
        Beethoven: 3rd symphony 4 september 1953
        5th symphony 7 february 1944 on Emi IMg Great conductor of the Century

        Those interpretations are not listen in Olsen, HUnt, Tremine or Gefen catalog.

        Where those new publications came from??? Available at amazon.co.uk

        Alain L Perron





        -- Alain L Perron <caliwwero@...> wrote: > Most of Wilhelm Furtw ngler's known recordings
        (both live and in the studio) are now available
        > on
        > CD, so this compilation of Beethoven is particularly important in offering two previously
        > unreleased live recordings (of the Fifth Symphony from Berlin in 1944 and of the 'Eroica' from
        > Vienna in 1953) and a third (of the 9th Symphony given in London in 1937) that has only
        > previously
        > been available on CD in Japan.
        >
        > Catalogue number: 5 62875 2 (2CDs for the price of 1 mid-price CD). Bar code: 7243 5 62875 2 5
        >
        >
        > Look the Emi website.
        > And a new Celibidache edition too.
        >
        > Alain
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > __________________________________
        > Do you Yahoo!?
        > Yahoo! Mail Address AutoComplete - You start. We finish.
        > http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
        > -------------------------------------------------------------------------
        > * POSTED to furt-l - the Furtwangler Mailing List
        > * Send new posts to furt-l@...
        > * To unsubscribe, go to http:// www.thump.org/furtl.html
        > * Archives at: http://www.findmail.com/list/furt-l/
        > --------------------------------------------------------------------------
        >

        ______________________________________________________________________
        Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca
        -------------------------------------------------------------------------
        * POSTED to furt-l - the Furtwangler Mailing List
        * Send new posts to furt-l@...
        * To unsubscribe, go to http:// www.thump.org/furtl.html
        * Archives at: http://www.findmail.com/list/furt-l/
        --------------------------------------------------------------------------

        -------------------------------------------------------------------------
        * POSTED to furt-l - the Furtwangler Mailing List
        * Send new posts to furt-l@...
        * To unsubscribe, go to http:// www.thump.org/furtl.html
        * Archives at: http://www.findmail.com/list/furt-l/
        --------------------------------------------------------------------------
      • Russell W. Miller
        ... I have not heard the new set, but I can report one unpleasant fact. In the rec.music.classical.recordings newsgroup, Mark Obert-Thorn reports a note in
        Message 3 of 26 , Jul 19, 2004
        • 0 Attachment
          > From: nobody@... [mailto:nobody@...]On Behalf Of
          > Johan Groenewald

          > Hi
          >
          > Can anybody please tell us something about the new performances
          > e.g. how the 4 September 1953 VPO Eroica compares with the 30
          > November 1952 VPO and 7 and 8 December 1952 BPO. And the 5th with
          > Furtwangler's wartime DG BPO?

          I have not heard the new set, but I can report one unpleasant fact. In the
          rec.music.classical.recordings newsgroup, Mark Obert-Thorn reports a note in
          EMI's booklet, stating that in order to fit these three symphonies on two
          discs they have edited out two repeats from the Scherzo of the (1937) Ninth!
          The running time of this movement is about two minutes less in the new issue
          than on earlier releases. It's not the first time EMI has pulled a stunt
          like this, but I still find it unacceptable and rather disgusting.

          Russell

          -------------------------------------------------------------------------
          * POSTED to furt-l - the Furtwangler Mailing List
          * Send new posts to furt-l@...
          * To unsubscribe, go to http:// www.thump.org/furtl.html
          * Archives at: http://www.findmail.com/list/furt-l/
          --------------------------------------------------------------------------
        • John Krol
          The lost repeats are the first repeat of the A section (Furtwangler himself omits the second), and the second repeat of the trio. There is a Music and Arts
          Message 4 of 26 , Jul 19, 2004
          • 0 Attachment
            The lost repeats are the first repeat of the "A" section (Furtwangler
            himself omits the second), and the second repeat of the trio.
            There is a Music and Arts release of this performance that contains both
            repeats, but also has a stereo effect in which the reverberation appears to
            go from left to right. The EMI version appears to be in unaltered mono sound
            that to me sounds clearer and more natural. So the choice is between
            untampered sound but a cut performance, or "enhanced" sound but complete
            performance.

            John Krol


            ----- Original Message -----
            From: "Russell W. Miller" <rwm@...>
            To: <furt-l@...>
            Sent: Monday, July 19, 2004 11:17 AM
            Subject: RE: [furt-l] Furtwangler Great conductor of the century


            > > From: nobody@... [mailto:nobody@...]On Behalf Of
            > > Johan Groenewald
            >
            > > Hi
            > >
            > > Can anybody please tell us something about the new performances
            > > e.g. how the 4 September 1953 VPO Eroica compares with the 30
            > > November 1952 VPO and 7 and 8 December 1952 BPO. And the 5th with
            > > Furtwangler's wartime DG BPO?
            >
            > I have not heard the new set, but I can report one unpleasant fact. In
            the
            > rec.music.classical.recordings newsgroup, Mark Obert-Thorn reports a note
            in
            > EMI's booklet, stating that in order to fit these three symphonies on two
            > discs they have edited out two repeats from the Scherzo of the (1937)
            Ninth!
            > The running time of this movement is about two minutes less in the new
            issue
            > than on earlier releases. It's not the first time EMI has pulled a stunt
            > like this, but I still find it unacceptable and rather disgusting.
            >
            > Russell
            >
            > -------------------------------------------------------------------------
            > * POSTED to furt-l - the Furtwangler Mailing List
            > * Send new posts to furt-l@...
            > * To unsubscribe, go to http:// www.thump.org/furtl.html
            > * Archives at: http://www.findmail.com/list/furt-l/
            > --------------------------------------------------------------------------

            -------------------------------------------------------------------------
            * POSTED to furt-l - the Furtwangler Mailing List
            * Send new posts to furt-l@...
            * To unsubscribe, go to http:// www.thump.org/furtl.html
            * Archives at: http://www.findmail.com/list/furt-l/
            --------------------------------------------------------------------------
          • Russell W. Miller
            I ordered, from HMV Japan, TOCE-3729 (issued in 2000) which if still available will be the best current option. ... * POSTED to furt-l - the Furtwangler
            Message 5 of 26 , Jul 19, 2004
            • 0 Attachment
              I ordered, from HMV Japan, TOCE-3729 (issued in 2000) which if still
              available will be the best current option.

              > -----Original Message-----
              > From: nobody@... [mailto:nobody@...]On Behalf Of
              > John Krol
              > Sent: Monday, July 19, 2004 11:38 AM
              > To: furt-l@...
              > Subject: Re: [furt-l] Furtwangler Great conductor of the century
              >
              >
              > The lost repeats are the first repeat of the "A" section (Furtwangler
              > himself omits the second), and the second repeat of the trio.
              > There is a Music and Arts release of this performance that contains both
              > repeats, but also has a stereo effect in which the reverberation
              > appears to
              > go from left to right. The EMI version appears to be in unaltered
              > mono sound
              > that to me sounds clearer and more natural. So the choice is between
              > untampered sound but a cut performance, or "enhanced" sound but complete
              > performance.
              >
              > John Krol
              >
              >
              > ----- Original Message -----
              > From: "Russell W. Miller" <rwm@...>
              > To: <furt-l@...>
              > Sent: Monday, July 19, 2004 11:17 AM
              > Subject: RE: [furt-l] Furtwangler Great conductor of the century
              >
              >
              > > > From: nobody@... [mailto:nobody@...]On Behalf Of
              > > > Johan Groenewald
              > >
              > > > Hi
              > > >
              > > > Can anybody please tell us something about the new performances
              > > > e.g. how the 4 September 1953 VPO Eroica compares with the 30
              > > > November 1952 VPO and 7 and 8 December 1952 BPO. And the 5th with
              > > > Furtwangler's wartime DG BPO?
              > >
              > > I have not heard the new set, but I can report one unpleasant fact. In
              > the
              > > rec.music.classical.recordings newsgroup, Mark Obert-Thorn
              > reports a note
              > in
              > > EMI's booklet, stating that in order to fit these three
              > symphonies on two
              > > discs they have edited out two repeats from the Scherzo of the (1937)
              > Ninth!
              > > The running time of this movement is about two minutes less in the new
              > issue
              > > than on earlier releases. It's not the first time EMI has
              > pulled a stunt
              > > like this, but I still find it unacceptable and rather disgusting.
              > >
              > > Russell
              > >
              > >
              > -------------------------------------------------------------------------
              > > * POSTED to furt-l - the Furtwangler Mailing List
              > > * Send new posts to furt-l@...
              > > * To unsubscribe, go to http:// www.thump.org/furtl.html
              > > * Archives at: http://www.findmail.com/list/furt-l/
              > >
              > --------------------------------------------------------------------------
              >
              > -------------------------------------------------------------------------
              > * POSTED to furt-l - the Furtwangler Mailing List
              > * Send new posts to furt-l@...
              > * To unsubscribe, go to http:// www.thump.org/furtl.html
              > * Archives at: http://www.findmail.com/list/furt-l/
              > --------------------------------------------------------------------------
              >
              >

              -------------------------------------------------------------------------
              * POSTED to furt-l - the Furtwangler Mailing List
              * Send new posts to furt-l@...
              * To unsubscribe, go to http:// www.thump.org/furtl.html
              * Archives at: http://www.findmail.com/list/furt-l/
              --------------------------------------------------------------------------
            • Lee Schipper
              Totally agree * there is not only no excuse, but this sort of makes the box wortheless, particulalry if as reported the ninth is stretched over two different
              Message 6 of 26 , Jul 19, 2004
              • 0 Attachment
                Totally agree * there is not only no excuse, but this sort of makes the box wortheless, particulalry
                if as reported the ninth is stretched over two different CDs.

                >>> rwm@... 7/19/2004 11:17:15 AM >>>
                > From: nobody@... [mailto:nobody@...]On Behalf Of
                > Johan Groenewald

                > Hi
                >
                > Can anybody please tell us something about the new performances
                > e.g. how the 4 September 1953 VPO Eroica compares with the 30
                > November 1952 VPO and 7 and 8 December 1952 BPO. And the 5th with
                > Furtwangler's wartime DG BPO?

                I have not heard the new set, but I can report one unpleasant fact. In the
                rec.music.classical.recordings newsgroup, Mark Obert-Thorn reports a note in
                EMI's booklet, stating that in order to fit these three symphonies on two
                discs they have edited out two repeats from the Scherzo of the (1937) Ninth!
                The running time of this movement is about two minutes less in the new issue
                than on earlier releases. It's not the first time EMI has pulled a stunt
                like this, but I still find it unacceptable and rather disgusting.

                Russell

                -------------------------------------------------------------------------
                * POSTED to furt-l - the Furtwangler Mailing List
                * Send new posts to furt-l@...
                * To unsubscribe, go to http:// www.thump.org/furtl.html
                * Archives at: http://www.findmail.com/list/furt-l/
                --------------------------------------------------------------------------

                -------------------------------------------------------------------------
                * POSTED to furt-l - the Furtwangler Mailing List
                * Send new posts to furt-l@...
                * To unsubscribe, go to http:// www.thump.org/furtl.html
                * Archives at: http://www.findmail.com/list/furt-l/
                --------------------------------------------------------------------------
              • John Krol
                I just checked and it is still available; thanks for the information. I suspect that most members of this group will already have another version of that 9th
                Message 7 of 26 , Jul 19, 2004
                • 0 Attachment
                  I just checked and it is still available; thanks for the information. I
                  suspect that most members of this group will already have another version of
                  that 9th and are buying this for the first-time released other material.
                  Unfortunately, to answer the original question, I am not familiar enough
                  with the other versions to deliver, á la Ardoin, an opinion on the
                  performances.

                  John Krol

                  ----- Original Message -----
                  From: "Russell W. Miller" <rwm@...>
                  To: <furt-l@...>
                  Sent: Monday, July 19, 2004 11:45 AM
                  Subject: RE: [furt-l] Furtwangler Great conductor of the century


                  > I ordered, from HMV Japan, TOCE-3729 (issued in 2000) which if still
                  > available will be the best current option.
                  >
                  > > -----Original Message-----
                  > > From: nobody@... [mailto:nobody@...]On Behalf Of
                  > > John Krol
                  > > Sent: Monday, July 19, 2004 11:38 AM
                  > > To: furt-l@...
                  > > Subject: Re: [furt-l] Furtwangler Great conductor of the century
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > The lost repeats are the first repeat of the "A" section (Furtwangler
                  > > himself omits the second), and the second repeat of the trio.
                  > > There is a Music and Arts release of this performance that contains both
                  > > repeats, but also has a stereo effect in which the reverberation
                  > > appears to
                  > > go from left to right. The EMI version appears to be in unaltered
                  > > mono sound
                  > > that to me sounds clearer and more natural. So the choice is between
                  > > untampered sound but a cut performance, or "enhanced" sound but complete
                  > > performance.
                  > >
                  > > John Krol
                  >

                  -------------------------------------------------------------------------
                  * POSTED to furt-l - the Furtwangler Mailing List
                  * Send new posts to furt-l@...
                  * To unsubscribe, go to http:// www.thump.org/furtl.html
                  * Archives at: http://www.findmail.com/list/furt-l/
                  --------------------------------------------------------------------------
                • Eric Kisch
                  ... I couldn t agree more. Would someone like to protest this travesty - and example of massive corporate stupidity in thinking it would not be noticed by the
                  Message 8 of 26 , Jul 19, 2004
                  • 0 Attachment
                    At 11:57 AM 7/19/2004, Lee wrote:
                    >Totally agree * there is not only no excuse, but this sort of makes the
                    >box wortheless, particularly if as reported the ninth is stretched over
                    >two different CDs.

                    I couldn't agree more. Would someone like to protest this travesty - and
                    example of massive corporate stupidity in thinking it would not be noticed
                    by the kinds of collectors who flock to new WF releases - with a letter to
                    the NY Times, London Times, other influential papers, and various music
                    magazines. A letter blitz to EMI would probably be better, but takes some
                    organizing - esp. in finding where to send it and to whom.

                    I marvel at the minds of those who think up such things in a series devoted
                    to rare historical material, where authenticity and documentation count for
                    a hell of a lot more than what fits on one CD. And if indeed the 9th was
                    split over two CDs - and who thought that up, given that the CD was
                    invented to be able to put the Beethoven Ninth on one record (CD) side -
                    why bother saving those couple of minutes? Is there 159.59 minutes of
                    material on the 2 CDs now?

                    I'll be happy to contribute but in view of very soon going away for a month
                    overseas am hardly in position to spearhead such an effort.

                    Companies have been known to respond to massive protests. Maybe we could
                    persuade Scott Adams (Dillbert) or Doonesbury to run a mocking strip!

                    The rising gorge, as SJ Perelman once wrote.

                    Eric



                    -------------------------------------------------------------------------
                    * POSTED to furt-l - the Furtwangler Mailing List
                    * Send new posts to furt-l@...
                    * To unsubscribe, go to http:// www.thump.org/furtl.html
                    * Archives at: http://www.findmail.com/list/furt-l/
                    --------------------------------------------------------------------------
                  • Philip Brown
                    I totally *don t* agree. Obsessives like us who would write to the papers to complain about these cuts surely already have this performance complete anyway.
                    Message 9 of 26 , Jul 20, 2004
                    • 0 Attachment
                      I totally *don't* agree. Obsessives like us who would write to the papers to
                      complain about these cuts surely already have this performance complete anyway.
                      EMI has done us a great favour by releasing two previously unavailable (I
                      think) and very great symphony performances for a very small price (I paid
                      £8.50 from MDT). These two are not split between discs.

                      For the collector who is not already committed to Furtwangler this makes a much
                      better set that one which did not include the Ninth, IMO. It has a superb essay
                      on F by Michael Tanner.

                      The set does include close to 159.99 minutes of music.

                      Cheers
                      Philip


                      Quoting Eric Kisch <kischmir@...>:

                      > At 11:57 AM 7/19/2004, Lee wrote:
                      > >Totally agree * there is not only no excuse, but this sort of makes the
                      > >box wortheless, particularly if as reported the ninth is stretched over
                      > >two different CDs.
                      >
                      > I couldn't agree more. Would someone like to protest this travesty - and
                      > example of massive corporate stupidity in thinking it would not be noticed
                      > by the kinds of collectors who flock to new WF releases - with a letter to
                      > the NY Times, London Times, other influential papers, and various music
                      > magazines. A letter blitz to EMI would probably be better, but takes some
                      > organizing - esp. in finding where to send it and to whom.
                      >
                      > I marvel at the minds of those who think up such things in a series devoted
                      > to rare historical material, where authenticity and documentation count for
                      > a hell of a lot more than what fits on one CD. And if indeed the 9th was
                      > split over two CDs - and who thought that up, given that the CD was
                      > invented to be able to put the Beethoven Ninth on one record (CD) side -
                      > why bother saving those couple of minutes? Is there 159.59 minutes of
                      > material on the 2 CDs now?
                      >
                      > I'll be happy to contribute but in view of very soon going away for a month
                      > overseas am hardly in position to spearhead such an effort.
                      >
                      > Companies have been known to respond to massive protests. Maybe we could
                      > persuade Scott Adams (Dillbert) or Doonesbury to run a mocking strip!
                      >
                      > The rising gorge, as SJ Perelman once wrote.
                      >
                      > Eric
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > -------------------------------------------------------------------------
                      > * POSTED to furt-l - the Furtwangler Mailing List
                      > * Send new posts to furt-l@...
                      > * To unsubscribe, go to http:// www.thump.org/furtl.html
                      > * Archives at: http://www.findmail.com/list/furt-l/
                      > --------------------------------------------------------------------------
                      >




                      ----------------------------------------------
                      This mail sent through http://www.ukonline.net
                      -------------------------------------------------------------------------
                      * POSTED to furt-l - the Furtwangler Mailing List
                      * Send new posts to furt-l@...
                      * To unsubscribe, go to http:// www.thump.org/furtl.html
                      * Archives at: http://www.findmail.com/list/furt-l/
                      --------------------------------------------------------------------------
                    • Alain L Perron
                      IMO, there is no problem. With a simple CD burner, it is possible to burn a new cd-r by coupling the two parts of the symphony NO. 9 on the same disc. If you
                      Message 10 of 26 , Jul 20, 2004
                      • 0 Attachment
                        IMO, there is no problem. With a simple CD burner, it is possible to burn a new cd-r by coupling
                        the two parts of the symphony NO. 9 on the same disc.

                        If you want the complete symphony, just order the japanese release, but by burning a new cd-r it
                        is cheaper. And the cut scherzo part is not essential, since there is a sounding problem in it.

                        Alain

                        ______________________________________________________________________
                        Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca
                        -------------------------------------------------------------------------
                        * POSTED to furt-l - the Furtwangler Mailing List
                        * Send new posts to furt-l@...
                        * To unsubscribe, go to http:// www.thump.org/furtl.html
                        * Archives at: http://www.findmail.com/list/furt-l/
                        --------------------------------------------------------------------------
                      • Bruce
                        === The original message was multipart MIME === ... * POSTED to furt-l - the Furtwangler Mailing List * Send new posts to furt-l@amulation.com * To
                        Message 11 of 26 , Jul 20, 2004
                        • 0 Attachment
                          === The original message was multipart MIME ===
                          === All non-text parts (attachments) have been removed ===

                          -------------------------------------------------------------------------
                          * POSTED to furt-l - the Furtwangler Mailing List
                          * Send new posts to furt-l@...
                          * To unsubscribe, go to http:// www.thump.org/furtl.html
                          * Archives at: http://www.findmail.com/list/furt-l/
                          --------------------------------------------------------------------------
                        • Masayuki Nakamura
                          I assume that the panel has not yet realised that the Beethoven #5 included in this set reporetedly a live performance from 7 February 1944 is identical with
                          Message 12 of 26 , Jul 20, 2004
                          • 0 Attachment
                            I assume that the panel has not yet realised that the Beethoven #5
                            included in this set reporetedly a live performance from 7 February 1944
                            is identical with the Magnetofonkonzert recording so far reportedly was
                            made in June 1943 and available through numerous lables including EMI
                            itself.

                            The actual recording date is still to be analysed (it may be 1944),
                            but it is absurd for EMI, which previously issued that 1943 performance,
                            to say that they issued "previously unreleased" performance, which is not
                            true. The recording has no audience noise - meaning it is at least NOT
                            a live recording.

                            Masayuki Nakamura, Yokohama, Japan


                            --- Alain L Perron <caliwwero@...> wrote:
                            > Most of Wilhelm Furtw ngler's known recordings (both live and in the studio) are
                            > now available on
                            > CD, so this compilation of Beethoven is particularly important in offering two
                            > previously
                            > unreleased live recordings (of the Fifth Symphony from Berlin in 1944 and of the
                            > 'Eroica' from
                            > Vienna in 1953) and a third (of the 9th Symphony given in London in 1937) that has
                            > only previously
                            > been available on CD in Japan.
                            >
                            > Catalogue number: 5 62875 2 (2CDs for the price of 1 mid-price CD). Bar code: 7243
                            > 5 62875 2 5
                            >
                            >
                            > Look the Emi website.
                            > And a new Celibidache edition too.
                            >
                            > Alain
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > __________________________________
                            > Do you Yahoo!?
                            > Yahoo! Mail Address AutoComplete - You start. We finish.
                            > http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
                            > -------------------------------------------------------------------------
                            > * POSTED to furt-l - the Furtwangler Mailing List
                            > * Send new posts to furt-l@...
                            > * To unsubscribe, go to http:// www.thump.org/furtl.html
                            > * Archives at: http://www.findmail.com/list/furt-l/
                            > --------------------------------------------------------------------------
                            >

                            -------------------------------------------------------------------------
                            * POSTED to furt-l - the Furtwangler Mailing List
                            * Send new posts to furt-l@...
                            * To unsubscribe, go to http:// www.thump.org/furtl.html
                            * Archives at: http://www.findmail.com/list/furt-l/
                            --------------------------------------------------------------------------
                          • Lee Schipper
                            In the Wartime performance we all know there is a slight flub in the trumpet in the first tutti (when the Aflat chord resolves to C major / G), I think around
                            Message 13 of 26 , Jul 20, 2004
                            • 0 Attachment
                              In the Wartime performance we all know there is a slight flub in the
                              trumpet in the first tutti (when the Aflat chord resolves to C major /
                              G), I think around measure 20. That flub allowed me to identify a
                              similar "fake" (hope that is not too strong a word) 30 years ago, the
                              famous "Chris Hoch" Beethoven 5th.

                              I do not understand EMI either. When the Beethoven 2nd was discovered,
                              they invited n umerous experts to "authenticate" it. When the live
                              Meistersinger was discovered in 1974 or 75, they put out informal
                              feelers to many of us to see if anyone had the missing parts.

                              ??????????????

                              Lee Schipper
                              Co Director, EMBARQ
                              World Resources Institute
                              10 "G" St NE, Washington DC 20002
                              TLF 1 202 729 7735
                              FAX 1 202 729 7798

                              http://www.embarq.wri.org/en


                              >>> musinakjp@... 7/20/2004 10:09:11 PM >>>
                              I assume that the panel has not yet realised that the Beethoven #5
                              included in this set reporetedly a live performance from 7 February
                              1944
                              is identical with the Magnetofonkonzert recording so far reportedly was

                              made in June 1943 and available through numerous lables including EMI
                              itself.

                              The actual recording date is still to be analysed (it may be 1944),
                              but it is absurd for EMI, which previously issued that 1943
                              performance,
                              to say that they issued "previously unreleased" performance, which is
                              not
                              true. The recording has no audience noise - meaning it is at least NOT
                              a live recording.

                              Masayuki Nakamura, Yokohama, Japan


                              --- Alain L Perron <caliwwero@...> wrote:
                              > Most of Wilhelm Furtw ngler's known recordings (both live and in the
                              studio) are
                              > now available on
                              > CD, so this compilation of Beethoven is particularly important in
                              offering two
                              > previously
                              > unreleased live recordings (of the Fifth Symphony from Berlin in 1944
                              and of the
                              > 'Eroica' from
                              > Vienna in 1953) and a third (of the 9th Symphony given in London in
                              1937) that has
                              > only previously
                              > been available on CD in Japan.
                              >
                              > Catalogue number: 5 62875 2 (2CDs for the price of 1 mid-price CD).
                              Bar code: 7243
                              > 5 62875 2 5
                              >
                              >
                              > Look the Emi website.
                              > And a new Celibidache edition too.
                              >
                              > Alain
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > __________________________________
                              > Do you Yahoo!?
                              > Yahoo! Mail Address AutoComplete - You start. We finish.
                              > http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
                              >
                              -------------------------------------------------------------------------
                              > * POSTED to furt-l - the Furtwangler Mailing List
                              > * Send new posts to furt-l@...
                              > * To unsubscribe, go to http:// www.thump.org/furtl.html
                              > * Archives at: http://www.findmail.com/list/furt-l/
                              >
                              --------------------------------------------------------------------------
                              >

                              -------------------------------------------------------------------------
                              * POSTED to furt-l - the Furtwangler Mailing List
                              * Send new posts to furt-l@...
                              * To unsubscribe, go to http:// www.thump.org/furtl.html
                              * Archives at: http://www.findmail.com/list/furt-l/
                              --------------------------------------------------------------------------
                              -------------------------------------------------------------------------
                              * POSTED to furt-l - the Furtwangler Mailing List
                              * Send new posts to furt-l@...
                              * To unsubscribe, go to http:// www.thump.org/furtl.html
                              * Archives at: http://www.findmail.com/list/furt-l/
                              --------------------------------------------------------------------------
                            • Alain L Perron
                              DEar Bruce, I did not receive you message but a this one down below. Martin -- Bruce wrote: === The original message was multipart
                              Message 14 of 26 , Jul 21, 2004
                              • 0 Attachment
                                DEar Bruce,

                                I did not receive you message but a this one down below.

                                Martin



                                -- Bruce <thinker49@...> wrote: > === The original message was multipart MIME
                                ===
                                > === All non-text parts (attachments) have been removed ===
                                >
                                > -------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                > * POSTED to furt-l - the Furtwangler Mailing List
                                > * Send new posts to furt-l@...
                                > * To unsubscribe, go to http:// www.thump.org/furtl.html
                                > * Archives at: http://www.findmail.com/list/furt-l/
                                > --------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                >

                                ______________________________________________________________________
                                Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca
                                -------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                * POSTED to furt-l - the Furtwangler Mailing List
                                * Send new posts to furt-l@...
                                * To unsubscribe, go to http:// www.thump.org/furtl.html
                                * Archives at: http://www.findmail.com/list/furt-l/
                                --------------------------------------------------------------------------
                              • Alain L Perron
                                DEar Masayuki, I have the 1943 and the 1944 ot the 5th, it seems that it this not the same recordings, the emotion is not the same, I prefer the 1943. ALP
                                Message 15 of 26 , Jul 21, 2004
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  DEar Masayuki,

                                  I have the 1943 and the 1944 ot the 5th, it seems that it this not the same recordings, the
                                  emotion is not the same, I prefer the 1943.

                                  ALP


                                  --- Masayuki Nakamura <musinakjp@...> wrote: > I assume that the panel has not yet realised
                                  that the Beethoven #5
                                  > included in this set reporetedly a live performance from 7 February 1944
                                  > is identical with the Magnetofonkonzert recording so far reportedly was
                                  > made in June 1943 and available through numerous lables including EMI
                                  > itself.
                                  >
                                  > The actual recording date is still to be analysed (it may be 1944),
                                  > but it is absurd for EMI, which previously issued that 1943 performance,
                                  > to say that they issued "previously unreleased" performance, which is not
                                  > true. The recording has no audience noise - meaning it is at least NOT
                                  > a live recording.
                                  >
                                  > Masayuki Nakamura, Yokohama, Japan
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > --- Alain L Perron <caliwwero@...> wrote:
                                  > > Most of Wilhelm Furtw ngler's known recordings (both live and in the studio) are
                                  > > now available on
                                  > > CD, so this compilation of Beethoven is particularly important in offering two
                                  > > previously
                                  > > unreleased live recordings (of the Fifth Symphony from Berlin in 1944 and of the
                                  > > 'Eroica' from
                                  > > Vienna in 1953) and a third (of the 9th Symphony given in London in 1937) that has
                                  > > only previously
                                  > > been available on CD in Japan.
                                  > >
                                  > > Catalogue number: 5 62875 2 (2CDs for the price of 1 mid-price CD). Bar code: 7243
                                  > > 5 62875 2 5
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > > Look the Emi website.
                                  > > And a new Celibidache edition too.
                                  > >
                                  > > Alain
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > > __________________________________
                                  > > Do you Yahoo!?
                                  > > Yahoo! Mail Address AutoComplete - You start. We finish.
                                  > > http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
                                  > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                  > > * POSTED to furt-l - the Furtwangler Mailing List
                                  > > * Send new posts to furt-l@...
                                  > > * To unsubscribe, go to http:// www.thump.org/furtl.html
                                  > > * Archives at: http://www.findmail.com/list/furt-l/
                                  > > --------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                  > >
                                  >
                                  > -------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                  > * POSTED to furt-l - the Furtwangler Mailing List
                                  > * Send new posts to furt-l@...
                                  > * To unsubscribe, go to http:// www.thump.org/furtl.html
                                  > * Archives at: http://www.findmail.com/list/furt-l/
                                  > --------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                  >

                                  ______________________________________________________________________
                                  Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca
                                  -------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                  * POSTED to furt-l - the Furtwangler Mailing List
                                  * Send new posts to furt-l@...
                                  * To unsubscribe, go to http:// www.thump.org/furtl.html
                                  * Archives at: http://www.findmail.com/list/furt-l/
                                  --------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                • Masayuki Nakamura
                                  Dear Alain, It is a problem it does NOT sound like the same recording due to different equalisation at first hearing. EMI obviously boosted lower frequency
                                  Message 16 of 26 , Jul 21, 2004
                                  • 0 Attachment
                                    Dear Alain,

                                    It is a problem it does NOT sound like the same recording due to
                                    different equalisation at first hearing. EMI obviously boosted lower
                                    frequency range in the new transfer. Whether they (or IMG) did it
                                    intensionally is something I do not know. I am not talking about
                                    the emotion, but a critical comparison necesary to eliminate fakes.

                                    If you have two CD players around you, try play both (IMG/EMI on one
                                    player and any 1943 disc available on the other) synchronising them
                                    using headphones, one earphone in you left ear and another in your
                                    right ear. You then will hear one and the same performance in your
                                    head including all the small noises, which were incidental.

                                    Mr. Ernst Lumpe should have a sophisticated computer, which can
                                    compare electronically two recordings. He would be able to help
                                    solving the problem ultimately.

                                    The CD set was well sold in Japan and it has already been established
                                    among "WF listeners" that the two performances are no doubt one and the
                                    same recording.

                                    A rumour tells that when we heard about the set for the first time,
                                    it was told that the #5 lacks the first movement. IMG/EMI might have
                                    genuine 1944 performance, but three movements only.

                                    Masayuki Nakamura


                                    --- Alain L Perron <caliwwero@...> wrote:
                                    > DEar Masayuki,
                                    >
                                    > I have the 1943 and the 1944 ot the 5th, it seems that it this not the same
                                    > recordings, the
                                    > emotion is not the same, I prefer the 1943.
                                    >
                                    > ALP
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > --- Masayuki Nakamura <musinakjp@...> wrote: > I assume that the panel has
                                    > not yet realised
                                    > that the Beethoven #5
                                    > > included in this set reporetedly a live performance from 7 February 1944
                                    > > is identical with the Magnetofonkonzert recording so far reportedly was
                                    > > made in June 1943 and available through numerous lables including EMI
                                    > > itself.
                                    > >
                                    > > The actual recording date is still to be analysed (it may be 1944),
                                    > > but it is absurd for EMI, which previously issued that 1943 performance,
                                    > > to say that they issued "previously unreleased" performance, which is not
                                    > > true. The recording has no audience noise - meaning it is at least NOT
                                    > > a live recording.
                                    > >
                                    > > Masayuki Nakamura, Yokohama, Japan
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > > --- Alain L Perron <caliwwero@...> wrote:
                                    > > > Most of Wilhelm Furtw ngler's known recordings (both live and in the studio)
                                    > are
                                    > > > now available on
                                    > > > CD, so this compilation of Beethoven is particularly important in offering two
                                    > > > previously
                                    > > > unreleased live recordings (of the Fifth Symphony from Berlin in 1944 and of
                                    > the
                                    > > > 'Eroica' from
                                    > > > Vienna in 1953) and a third (of the 9th Symphony given in London in 1937) that
                                    > has
                                    > > > only previously
                                    > > > been available on CD in Japan.
                                    > > >
                                    > > > Catalogue number: 5 62875 2 (2CDs for the price of 1 mid-price CD). Bar code:
                                    > 7243
                                    > > > 5 62875 2 5
                                    > > >
                                    > > >
                                    > > > Look the Emi website.
                                    > > > And a new Celibidache edition too.
                                    > > >
                                    > > > Alain
                                    > > >
                                    > > >
                                    > > >
                                    > > >
                                    > > > __________________________________
                                    > > > Do you Yahoo!?
                                    > > > Yahoo! Mail Address AutoComplete - You start. We finish.
                                    > > > http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
                                    > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                    > > > * POSTED to furt-l - the Furtwangler Mailing List
                                    > > > * Send new posts to furt-l@...
                                    > > > * To unsubscribe, go to http:// www.thump.org/furtl.html
                                    > > > * Archives at: http://www.findmail.com/list/furt-l/
                                    > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                    > > >
                                    > >
                                    > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                    > > * POSTED to furt-l - the Furtwangler Mailing List
                                    > > * Send new posts to furt-l@...
                                    > > * To unsubscribe, go to http:// www.thump.org/furtl.html
                                    > > * Archives at: http://www.findmail.com/list/furt-l/
                                    > > --------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                    > >
                                    >
                                    > ______________________________________________________________________
                                    > Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca
                                    > -------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                    > * POSTED to furt-l - the Furtwangler Mailing List
                                    > * Send new posts to furt-l@...
                                    > * To unsubscribe, go to http:// www.thump.org/furtl.html
                                    > * Archives at: http://www.findmail.com/list/furt-l/
                                    > --------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                    >

                                    -------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                    * POSTED to furt-l - the Furtwangler Mailing List
                                    * Send new posts to furt-l@...
                                    * To unsubscribe, go to http:// www.thump.org/furtl.html
                                    * Archives at: http://www.findmail.com/list/furt-l/
                                    --------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                  • Pascal Auffinger
                                    Dear Members, If the fifth of this EMI set is not new, what about the third ? Does anyone have clues on that issue ? Pascal ... ________________________ pascal
                                    Message 17 of 26 , Jul 23, 2004
                                    • 0 Attachment
                                      Dear Members,

                                      If the fifth of this EMI set is not new, what about the third ?
                                      Does anyone have clues on that issue ?

                                      Pascal


                                      > Dear Alain,
                                      >
                                      > It is a problem it does NOT sound like the same recording due to
                                      > different equalisation at first hearing. EMI obviously boosted lower
                                      > frequency range in the new transfer. Whether they (or IMG) did it
                                      > intensionally is something I do not know. I am not talking about
                                      > the emotion, but a critical comparison necesary to eliminate fakes.
                                      >
                                      > If you have two CD players around you, try play both (IMG/EMI on one
                                      > player and any 1943 disc available on the other) synchronising them
                                      > using headphones, one earphone in you left ear and another in your
                                      > right ear. You then will hear one and the same performance in your
                                      > head including all the small noises, which were incidental.
                                      >
                                      > Mr. Ernst Lumpe should have a sophisticated computer, which can
                                      > compare electronically two recordings. He would be able to help
                                      > solving the problem ultimately.
                                      >
                                      > The CD set was well sold in Japan and it has already been established
                                      > among "WF listeners" that the two performances are no doubt one and the
                                      > same recording.
                                      >
                                      > A rumour tells that when we heard about the set for the first time,
                                      > it was told that the #5 lacks the first movement. IMG/EMI might have
                                      > genuine 1944 performance, but three movements only.
                                      >
                                      > Masayuki Nakamura
                                      >
                                      >>>>
                                      >>>> __________________________________
                                      >>>> Do you Yahoo!?
                                      >>>> Yahoo! Mail Address AutoComplete - You start. We finish.
                                      >>>> http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
                                      >>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                      >>>> * POSTED to furt-l - the Furtwangler Mailing List
                                      >>>> * Send new posts to furt-l@...
                                      >>>> * To unsubscribe, go to http:// www.thump.org/furtl.html
                                      >>>> * Archives at: http://www.findmail.com/list/furt-l/
                                      >>>> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                      >>>>
                                      >>>
                                      >>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                      >>> * POSTED to furt-l - the Furtwangler Mailing List
                                      >>> * Send new posts to furt-l@...
                                      >>> * To unsubscribe, go to http:// www.thump.org/furtl.html
                                      >>> * Archives at: http://www.findmail.com/list/furt-l/
                                      >>> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                      >>>
                                      >>
                                      >> ______________________________________________________________________
                                      >> Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca
                                      >> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                      >> * POSTED to furt-l - the Furtwangler Mailing List
                                      >> * Send new posts to furt-l@...
                                      >> * To unsubscribe, go to http:// www.thump.org/furtl.html
                                      >> * Archives at: http://www.findmail.com/list/furt-l/
                                      >> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                      >>
                                      >
                                      > -------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                      > * POSTED to furt-l - the Furtwangler Mailing List
                                      > * Send new posts to furt-l@...
                                      > * To unsubscribe, go to http:// www.thump.org/furtl.html
                                      > * Archives at: http://www.findmail.com/list/furt-l/
                                      > --------------------------------------------------------------------------


                                      ________________________
                                      pascal auffinger
                                      ibmc-cnrs
                                      15 rue rené descartes
                                      f-67084 strasbourg cedex
                                      france

                                      tel: (33) 388 41 70 49
                                      mob: (33) 616 98 55 07
                                      fax: (33) 388 60 22 18

                                      e-mail: p.auffinger@ibmc.u-strasbg.fr
                                      http://www-ibmc.u-strasbg.fr/upr9002/westhof/biblio_pascal.html
                                      ________________________________________________________________

                                      -------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                      * POSTED to furt-l - the Furtwangler Mailing List
                                      * Send new posts to furt-l@...
                                      * To unsubscribe, go to http:// www.thump.org/furtl.html
                                      * Archives at: http://www.findmail.com/list/furt-l/
                                      --------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                    • Alain L Perron
                                      http://minilien.com/?qLPKpG3Tdg DGG have made a new edition of Furtwangler cds. CD 6 contains great interviews of given by Furtwangler. A must, but first if
                                      Message 18 of 26 , Aug 16, 2004
                                      • 0 Attachment
                                        http://minilien.com/?qLPKpG3Tdg

                                        DGG have made a new edition of Furtwangler cds.

                                        CD 6 contains great interviews of given by Furtwangler.

                                        A must, but first if you do not have too much doublon

                                        Alain



                                        __________________________________
                                        Do you Yahoo!?
                                        Yahoo! Mail is new and improved - Check it out!
                                        http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
                                        -------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                        * POSTED to furt-l - the Furtwangler Mailing List
                                        * Send new posts to furt-l@...
                                        * To unsubscribe, go to http:// www.thump.org/furtl.html
                                        * Archives at: http://www.findmail.com/list/furt-l/
                                        --------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                      • Raymond Chan
                                        === The original message was multipart MIME === ... * POSTED to furt-l - the Furtwangler Mailing List * Send new posts to furt-l@amulation.com * To
                                        Message 19 of 26 , Aug 16, 2004
                                        • 0 Attachment
                                          === The original message was multipart MIME ===
                                          === All non-text parts (attachments) have been removed ===

                                          -------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                          * POSTED to furt-l - the Furtwangler Mailing List
                                          * Send new posts to furt-l@...
                                          * To unsubscribe, go to http:// www.thump.org/furtl.html
                                          * Archives at: http://www.findmail.com/list/furt-l/
                                          --------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                        • Raymond Chan
                                          Oops, the last message didn t go through. Let s try again: Ebay currently has one copy for bidding....
                                          Message 20 of 26 , Aug 16, 2004
                                          • 0 Attachment
                                            Oops, the last message didn't go through. Let's try
                                            again:

                                            Ebay currently has one copy for bidding....

                                            http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=4031105103

                                            -----------------------------------------------

                                            Alain L Perron <caliwwero@...> wrote:

                                            http://minilien.com/?qLPKpG3Tdg

                                            DGG have made a new edition of Furtwangler cds.

                                            CD 6 contains great interviews of given by
                                            Furtwangler.

                                            A must, but first if you do not have too much doublon

                                            Alain

                                            =====
                                            /+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+\
                                            # Raymond Chan Markham, Ontario, Canada #
                                            # ~~~~~~~ Mahler - Shostakovich - Bruckner ~~~~~~ #
                                            # "Without music, life would be a mistake" #
                                            # -- Friedrich Nietzsche #
                                            \+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+/
                                            -------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                            * POSTED to furt-l - the Furtwangler Mailing List
                                            * Send new posts to furt-l@...
                                            * To unsubscribe, go to http:// www.thump.org/furtl.html
                                            * Archives at: http://www.findmail.com/list/furt-l/
                                            --------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                          Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.