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[furt-l] Furtwangler GReat conductor of the century

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  • Alain L Perron
    Most of Wilhelm Furtw ngler s known recordings (both live and in the studio) are now available on CD, so this compilation of Beethoven is particularly
    Message 1 of 26 , Jun 18, 2004
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      Most of Wilhelm Furtw ngler's known recordings (both live and in the studio) are now available on
      CD, so this compilation of Beethoven is particularly important in offering two previously
      unreleased live recordings (of the Fifth Symphony from Berlin in 1944 and of the 'Eroica' from
      Vienna in 1953) and a third (of the 9th Symphony given in London in 1937) that has only previously
      been available on CD in Japan.

      Catalogue number: 5 62875 2 (2CDs for the price of 1 mid-price CD). Bar code: 7243 5 62875 2 5


      Look the Emi website.
      And a new Celibidache edition too.

      Alain




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    • Alain L Perron
      Beethoven: 3rd symphony 4 september 1953 5th symphony 7 february 1944 on Emi IMg Great conductor of the Century Those interpretations are not listen in
      Message 2 of 26 , Jul 12, 2004
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        Beethoven: 3rd symphony 4 september 1953
        5th symphony 7 february 1944 on Emi IMg Great conductor of the Century

        Those interpretations are not listen in Olsen, HUnt, Tremine or Gefen catalog.

        Where those new publications came from??? Available at amazon.co.uk

        Alain L Perron





        -- Alain L Perron <caliwwero@...> wrote: > Most of Wilhelm Furtw ngler's known recordings
        (both live and in the studio) are now available
        > on
        > CD, so this compilation of Beethoven is particularly important in offering two previously
        > unreleased live recordings (of the Fifth Symphony from Berlin in 1944 and of the 'Eroica' from
        > Vienna in 1953) and a third (of the 9th Symphony given in London in 1937) that has only
        > previously
        > been available on CD in Japan.
        >
        > Catalogue number: 5 62875 2 (2CDs for the price of 1 mid-price CD). Bar code: 7243 5 62875 2 5
        >
        >
        > Look the Emi website.
        > And a new Celibidache edition too.
        >
        > Alain
        >
        >
        >
        >
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      • Johan Groenewald
        Hi Can anybody please tell us something about the new performances e.g. how the 4 September 1953 VPO Eroica compares with the 30 November 1952 VPO and 7 and 8
        Message 3 of 26 , Jul 19, 2004
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          Hi

          Can anybody please tell us something about the new performances e.g. how the 4 September 1953 VPO Eroica compares with the 30 November 1952 VPO and 7 and 8 December 1952 BPO. And the 5th with Furtwangler's wartime DG BPO?

          Thanks

          Johan Groenewald

          >>> caliwwero@... 04:43:35 12 July 2004 >>>
          Beethoven: 3rd symphony 4 september 1953
          5th symphony 7 february 1944 on Emi IMg Great conductor of the Century

          Those interpretations are not listen in Olsen, HUnt, Tremine or Gefen catalog.

          Where those new publications came from??? Available at amazon.co.uk

          Alain L Perron





          -- Alain L Perron <caliwwero@...> wrote: > Most of Wilhelm Furtw ngler's known recordings
          (both live and in the studio) are now available
          > on
          > CD, so this compilation of Beethoven is particularly important in offering two previously
          > unreleased live recordings (of the Fifth Symphony from Berlin in 1944 and of the 'Eroica' from
          > Vienna in 1953) and a third (of the 9th Symphony given in London in 1937) that has only
          > previously
          > been available on CD in Japan.
          >
          > Catalogue number: 5 62875 2 (2CDs for the price of 1 mid-price CD). Bar code: 7243 5 62875 2 5
          >
          >
          > Look the Emi website.
          > And a new Celibidache edition too.
          >
          > Alain
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > __________________________________
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        • Russell W. Miller
          ... I have not heard the new set, but I can report one unpleasant fact. In the rec.music.classical.recordings newsgroup, Mark Obert-Thorn reports a note in
          Message 4 of 26 , Jul 19, 2004
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            > From: nobody@... [mailto:nobody@...]On Behalf Of
            > Johan Groenewald

            > Hi
            >
            > Can anybody please tell us something about the new performances
            > e.g. how the 4 September 1953 VPO Eroica compares with the 30
            > November 1952 VPO and 7 and 8 December 1952 BPO. And the 5th with
            > Furtwangler's wartime DG BPO?

            I have not heard the new set, but I can report one unpleasant fact. In the
            rec.music.classical.recordings newsgroup, Mark Obert-Thorn reports a note in
            EMI's booklet, stating that in order to fit these three symphonies on two
            discs they have edited out two repeats from the Scherzo of the (1937) Ninth!
            The running time of this movement is about two minutes less in the new issue
            than on earlier releases. It's not the first time EMI has pulled a stunt
            like this, but I still find it unacceptable and rather disgusting.

            Russell

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          • John Krol
            The lost repeats are the first repeat of the A section (Furtwangler himself omits the second), and the second repeat of the trio. There is a Music and Arts
            Message 5 of 26 , Jul 19, 2004
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              The lost repeats are the first repeat of the "A" section (Furtwangler
              himself omits the second), and the second repeat of the trio.
              There is a Music and Arts release of this performance that contains both
              repeats, but also has a stereo effect in which the reverberation appears to
              go from left to right. The EMI version appears to be in unaltered mono sound
              that to me sounds clearer and more natural. So the choice is between
              untampered sound but a cut performance, or "enhanced" sound but complete
              performance.

              John Krol


              ----- Original Message -----
              From: "Russell W. Miller" <rwm@...>
              To: <furt-l@...>
              Sent: Monday, July 19, 2004 11:17 AM
              Subject: RE: [furt-l] Furtwangler Great conductor of the century


              > > From: nobody@... [mailto:nobody@...]On Behalf Of
              > > Johan Groenewald
              >
              > > Hi
              > >
              > > Can anybody please tell us something about the new performances
              > > e.g. how the 4 September 1953 VPO Eroica compares with the 30
              > > November 1952 VPO and 7 and 8 December 1952 BPO. And the 5th with
              > > Furtwangler's wartime DG BPO?
              >
              > I have not heard the new set, but I can report one unpleasant fact. In
              the
              > rec.music.classical.recordings newsgroup, Mark Obert-Thorn reports a note
              in
              > EMI's booklet, stating that in order to fit these three symphonies on two
              > discs they have edited out two repeats from the Scherzo of the (1937)
              Ninth!
              > The running time of this movement is about two minutes less in the new
              issue
              > than on earlier releases. It's not the first time EMI has pulled a stunt
              > like this, but I still find it unacceptable and rather disgusting.
              >
              > Russell
              >
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            • Russell W. Miller
              I ordered, from HMV Japan, TOCE-3729 (issued in 2000) which if still available will be the best current option. ... * POSTED to furt-l - the Furtwangler
              Message 6 of 26 , Jul 19, 2004
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                I ordered, from HMV Japan, TOCE-3729 (issued in 2000) which if still
                available will be the best current option.

                > -----Original Message-----
                > From: nobody@... [mailto:nobody@...]On Behalf Of
                > John Krol
                > Sent: Monday, July 19, 2004 11:38 AM
                > To: furt-l@...
                > Subject: Re: [furt-l] Furtwangler Great conductor of the century
                >
                >
                > The lost repeats are the first repeat of the "A" section (Furtwangler
                > himself omits the second), and the second repeat of the trio.
                > There is a Music and Arts release of this performance that contains both
                > repeats, but also has a stereo effect in which the reverberation
                > appears to
                > go from left to right. The EMI version appears to be in unaltered
                > mono sound
                > that to me sounds clearer and more natural. So the choice is between
                > untampered sound but a cut performance, or "enhanced" sound but complete
                > performance.
                >
                > John Krol
                >
                >
                > ----- Original Message -----
                > From: "Russell W. Miller" <rwm@...>
                > To: <furt-l@...>
                > Sent: Monday, July 19, 2004 11:17 AM
                > Subject: RE: [furt-l] Furtwangler Great conductor of the century
                >
                >
                > > > From: nobody@... [mailto:nobody@...]On Behalf Of
                > > > Johan Groenewald
                > >
                > > > Hi
                > > >
                > > > Can anybody please tell us something about the new performances
                > > > e.g. how the 4 September 1953 VPO Eroica compares with the 30
                > > > November 1952 VPO and 7 and 8 December 1952 BPO. And the 5th with
                > > > Furtwangler's wartime DG BPO?
                > >
                > > I have not heard the new set, but I can report one unpleasant fact. In
                > the
                > > rec.music.classical.recordings newsgroup, Mark Obert-Thorn
                > reports a note
                > in
                > > EMI's booklet, stating that in order to fit these three
                > symphonies on two
                > > discs they have edited out two repeats from the Scherzo of the (1937)
                > Ninth!
                > > The running time of this movement is about two minutes less in the new
                > issue
                > > than on earlier releases. It's not the first time EMI has
                > pulled a stunt
                > > like this, but I still find it unacceptable and rather disgusting.
                > >
                > > Russell
                > >
                > >
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                > >
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                >

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              • Lee Schipper
                Totally agree * there is not only no excuse, but this sort of makes the box wortheless, particulalry if as reported the ninth is stretched over two different
                Message 7 of 26 , Jul 19, 2004
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                  Totally agree * there is not only no excuse, but this sort of makes the box wortheless, particulalry
                  if as reported the ninth is stretched over two different CDs.

                  >>> rwm@... 7/19/2004 11:17:15 AM >>>
                  > From: nobody@... [mailto:nobody@...]On Behalf Of
                  > Johan Groenewald

                  > Hi
                  >
                  > Can anybody please tell us something about the new performances
                  > e.g. how the 4 September 1953 VPO Eroica compares with the 30
                  > November 1952 VPO and 7 and 8 December 1952 BPO. And the 5th with
                  > Furtwangler's wartime DG BPO?

                  I have not heard the new set, but I can report one unpleasant fact. In the
                  rec.music.classical.recordings newsgroup, Mark Obert-Thorn reports a note in
                  EMI's booklet, stating that in order to fit these three symphonies on two
                  discs they have edited out two repeats from the Scherzo of the (1937) Ninth!
                  The running time of this movement is about two minutes less in the new issue
                  than on earlier releases. It's not the first time EMI has pulled a stunt
                  like this, but I still find it unacceptable and rather disgusting.

                  Russell

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                • John Krol
                  I just checked and it is still available; thanks for the information. I suspect that most members of this group will already have another version of that 9th
                  Message 8 of 26 , Jul 19, 2004
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                    I just checked and it is still available; thanks for the information. I
                    suspect that most members of this group will already have another version of
                    that 9th and are buying this for the first-time released other material.
                    Unfortunately, to answer the original question, I am not familiar enough
                    with the other versions to deliver, á la Ardoin, an opinion on the
                    performances.

                    John Krol

                    ----- Original Message -----
                    From: "Russell W. Miller" <rwm@...>
                    To: <furt-l@...>
                    Sent: Monday, July 19, 2004 11:45 AM
                    Subject: RE: [furt-l] Furtwangler Great conductor of the century


                    > I ordered, from HMV Japan, TOCE-3729 (issued in 2000) which if still
                    > available will be the best current option.
                    >
                    > > -----Original Message-----
                    > > From: nobody@... [mailto:nobody@...]On Behalf Of
                    > > John Krol
                    > > Sent: Monday, July 19, 2004 11:38 AM
                    > > To: furt-l@...
                    > > Subject: Re: [furt-l] Furtwangler Great conductor of the century
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > The lost repeats are the first repeat of the "A" section (Furtwangler
                    > > himself omits the second), and the second repeat of the trio.
                    > > There is a Music and Arts release of this performance that contains both
                    > > repeats, but also has a stereo effect in which the reverberation
                    > > appears to
                    > > go from left to right. The EMI version appears to be in unaltered
                    > > mono sound
                    > > that to me sounds clearer and more natural. So the choice is between
                    > > untampered sound but a cut performance, or "enhanced" sound but complete
                    > > performance.
                    > >
                    > > John Krol
                    >

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                  • Eric Kisch
                    ... I couldn t agree more. Would someone like to protest this travesty - and example of massive corporate stupidity in thinking it would not be noticed by the
                    Message 9 of 26 , Jul 19, 2004
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                      At 11:57 AM 7/19/2004, Lee wrote:
                      >Totally agree * there is not only no excuse, but this sort of makes the
                      >box wortheless, particularly if as reported the ninth is stretched over
                      >two different CDs.

                      I couldn't agree more. Would someone like to protest this travesty - and
                      example of massive corporate stupidity in thinking it would not be noticed
                      by the kinds of collectors who flock to new WF releases - with a letter to
                      the NY Times, London Times, other influential papers, and various music
                      magazines. A letter blitz to EMI would probably be better, but takes some
                      organizing - esp. in finding where to send it and to whom.

                      I marvel at the minds of those who think up such things in a series devoted
                      to rare historical material, where authenticity and documentation count for
                      a hell of a lot more than what fits on one CD. And if indeed the 9th was
                      split over two CDs - and who thought that up, given that the CD was
                      invented to be able to put the Beethoven Ninth on one record (CD) side -
                      why bother saving those couple of minutes? Is there 159.59 minutes of
                      material on the 2 CDs now?

                      I'll be happy to contribute but in view of very soon going away for a month
                      overseas am hardly in position to spearhead such an effort.

                      Companies have been known to respond to massive protests. Maybe we could
                      persuade Scott Adams (Dillbert) or Doonesbury to run a mocking strip!

                      The rising gorge, as SJ Perelman once wrote.

                      Eric



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                    • Philip Brown
                      I totally *don t* agree. Obsessives like us who would write to the papers to complain about these cuts surely already have this performance complete anyway.
                      Message 10 of 26 , Jul 20, 2004
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                        I totally *don't* agree. Obsessives like us who would write to the papers to
                        complain about these cuts surely already have this performance complete anyway.
                        EMI has done us a great favour by releasing two previously unavailable (I
                        think) and very great symphony performances for a very small price (I paid
                        £8.50 from MDT). These two are not split between discs.

                        For the collector who is not already committed to Furtwangler this makes a much
                        better set that one which did not include the Ninth, IMO. It has a superb essay
                        on F by Michael Tanner.

                        The set does include close to 159.99 minutes of music.

                        Cheers
                        Philip


                        Quoting Eric Kisch <kischmir@...>:

                        > At 11:57 AM 7/19/2004, Lee wrote:
                        > >Totally agree * there is not only no excuse, but this sort of makes the
                        > >box wortheless, particularly if as reported the ninth is stretched over
                        > >two different CDs.
                        >
                        > I couldn't agree more. Would someone like to protest this travesty - and
                        > example of massive corporate stupidity in thinking it would not be noticed
                        > by the kinds of collectors who flock to new WF releases - with a letter to
                        > the NY Times, London Times, other influential papers, and various music
                        > magazines. A letter blitz to EMI would probably be better, but takes some
                        > organizing - esp. in finding where to send it and to whom.
                        >
                        > I marvel at the minds of those who think up such things in a series devoted
                        > to rare historical material, where authenticity and documentation count for
                        > a hell of a lot more than what fits on one CD. And if indeed the 9th was
                        > split over two CDs - and who thought that up, given that the CD was
                        > invented to be able to put the Beethoven Ninth on one record (CD) side -
                        > why bother saving those couple of minutes? Is there 159.59 minutes of
                        > material on the 2 CDs now?
                        >
                        > I'll be happy to contribute but in view of very soon going away for a month
                        > overseas am hardly in position to spearhead such an effort.
                        >
                        > Companies have been known to respond to massive protests. Maybe we could
                        > persuade Scott Adams (Dillbert) or Doonesbury to run a mocking strip!
                        >
                        > The rising gorge, as SJ Perelman once wrote.
                        >
                        > Eric
                        >
                        >
                        >
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                      • Alain L Perron
                        IMO, there is no problem. With a simple CD burner, it is possible to burn a new cd-r by coupling the two parts of the symphony NO. 9 on the same disc. If you
                        Message 11 of 26 , Jul 20, 2004
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                          IMO, there is no problem. With a simple CD burner, it is possible to burn a new cd-r by coupling
                          the two parts of the symphony NO. 9 on the same disc.

                          If you want the complete symphony, just order the japanese release, but by burning a new cd-r it
                          is cheaper. And the cut scherzo part is not essential, since there is a sounding problem in it.

                          Alain

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                        • Bruce
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                          Message 12 of 26 , Jul 20, 2004
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                          • Masayuki Nakamura
                            I assume that the panel has not yet realised that the Beethoven #5 included in this set reporetedly a live performance from 7 February 1944 is identical with
                            Message 13 of 26 , Jul 20, 2004
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                              I assume that the panel has not yet realised that the Beethoven #5
                              included in this set reporetedly a live performance from 7 February 1944
                              is identical with the Magnetofonkonzert recording so far reportedly was
                              made in June 1943 and available through numerous lables including EMI
                              itself.

                              The actual recording date is still to be analysed (it may be 1944),
                              but it is absurd for EMI, which previously issued that 1943 performance,
                              to say that they issued "previously unreleased" performance, which is not
                              true. The recording has no audience noise - meaning it is at least NOT
                              a live recording.

                              Masayuki Nakamura, Yokohama, Japan


                              --- Alain L Perron <caliwwero@...> wrote:
                              > Most of Wilhelm Furtw ngler's known recordings (both live and in the studio) are
                              > now available on
                              > CD, so this compilation of Beethoven is particularly important in offering two
                              > previously
                              > unreleased live recordings (of the Fifth Symphony from Berlin in 1944 and of the
                              > 'Eroica' from
                              > Vienna in 1953) and a third (of the 9th Symphony given in London in 1937) that has
                              > only previously
                              > been available on CD in Japan.
                              >
                              > Catalogue number: 5 62875 2 (2CDs for the price of 1 mid-price CD). Bar code: 7243
                              > 5 62875 2 5
                              >
                              >
                              > Look the Emi website.
                              > And a new Celibidache edition too.
                              >
                              > Alain
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > __________________________________
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                            • Lee Schipper
                              In the Wartime performance we all know there is a slight flub in the trumpet in the first tutti (when the Aflat chord resolves to C major / G), I think around
                              Message 14 of 26 , Jul 20, 2004
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                                In the Wartime performance we all know there is a slight flub in the
                                trumpet in the first tutti (when the Aflat chord resolves to C major /
                                G), I think around measure 20. That flub allowed me to identify a
                                similar "fake" (hope that is not too strong a word) 30 years ago, the
                                famous "Chris Hoch" Beethoven 5th.

                                I do not understand EMI either. When the Beethoven 2nd was discovered,
                                they invited n umerous experts to "authenticate" it. When the live
                                Meistersinger was discovered in 1974 or 75, they put out informal
                                feelers to many of us to see if anyone had the missing parts.

                                ??????????????

                                Lee Schipper
                                Co Director, EMBARQ
                                World Resources Institute
                                10 "G" St NE, Washington DC 20002
                                TLF 1 202 729 7735
                                FAX 1 202 729 7798

                                http://www.embarq.wri.org/en


                                >>> musinakjp@... 7/20/2004 10:09:11 PM >>>
                                I assume that the panel has not yet realised that the Beethoven #5
                                included in this set reporetedly a live performance from 7 February
                                1944
                                is identical with the Magnetofonkonzert recording so far reportedly was

                                made in June 1943 and available through numerous lables including EMI
                                itself.

                                The actual recording date is still to be analysed (it may be 1944),
                                but it is absurd for EMI, which previously issued that 1943
                                performance,
                                to say that they issued "previously unreleased" performance, which is
                                not
                                true. The recording has no audience noise - meaning it is at least NOT
                                a live recording.

                                Masayuki Nakamura, Yokohama, Japan


                                --- Alain L Perron <caliwwero@...> wrote:
                                > Most of Wilhelm Furtw ngler's known recordings (both live and in the
                                studio) are
                                > now available on
                                > CD, so this compilation of Beethoven is particularly important in
                                offering two
                                > previously
                                > unreleased live recordings (of the Fifth Symphony from Berlin in 1944
                                and of the
                                > 'Eroica' from
                                > Vienna in 1953) and a third (of the 9th Symphony given in London in
                                1937) that has
                                > only previously
                                > been available on CD in Japan.
                                >
                                > Catalogue number: 5 62875 2 (2CDs for the price of 1 mid-price CD).
                                Bar code: 7243
                                > 5 62875 2 5
                                >
                                >
                                > Look the Emi website.
                                > And a new Celibidache edition too.
                                >
                                > Alain
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > __________________________________
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                                > Yahoo! Mail Address AutoComplete - You start. We finish.
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                              • Alain L Perron
                                DEar Bruce, I did not receive you message but a this one down below. Martin -- Bruce wrote: === The original message was multipart
                                Message 15 of 26 , Jul 21, 2004
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                                  DEar Bruce,

                                  I did not receive you message but a this one down below.

                                  Martin



                                  -- Bruce <thinker49@...> wrote: > === The original message was multipart MIME
                                  ===
                                  > === All non-text parts (attachments) have been removed ===
                                  >
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                                • Alain L Perron
                                  DEar Masayuki, I have the 1943 and the 1944 ot the 5th, it seems that it this not the same recordings, the emotion is not the same, I prefer the 1943. ALP
                                  Message 16 of 26 , Jul 21, 2004
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                                    DEar Masayuki,

                                    I have the 1943 and the 1944 ot the 5th, it seems that it this not the same recordings, the
                                    emotion is not the same, I prefer the 1943.

                                    ALP


                                    --- Masayuki Nakamura <musinakjp@...> wrote: > I assume that the panel has not yet realised
                                    that the Beethoven #5
                                    > included in this set reporetedly a live performance from 7 February 1944
                                    > is identical with the Magnetofonkonzert recording so far reportedly was
                                    > made in June 1943 and available through numerous lables including EMI
                                    > itself.
                                    >
                                    > The actual recording date is still to be analysed (it may be 1944),
                                    > but it is absurd for EMI, which previously issued that 1943 performance,
                                    > to say that they issued "previously unreleased" performance, which is not
                                    > true. The recording has no audience noise - meaning it is at least NOT
                                    > a live recording.
                                    >
                                    > Masayuki Nakamura, Yokohama, Japan
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > --- Alain L Perron <caliwwero@...> wrote:
                                    > > Most of Wilhelm Furtw ngler's known recordings (both live and in the studio) are
                                    > > now available on
                                    > > CD, so this compilation of Beethoven is particularly important in offering two
                                    > > previously
                                    > > unreleased live recordings (of the Fifth Symphony from Berlin in 1944 and of the
                                    > > 'Eroica' from
                                    > > Vienna in 1953) and a third (of the 9th Symphony given in London in 1937) that has
                                    > > only previously
                                    > > been available on CD in Japan.
                                    > >
                                    > > Catalogue number: 5 62875 2 (2CDs for the price of 1 mid-price CD). Bar code: 7243
                                    > > 5 62875 2 5
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > > Look the Emi website.
                                    > > And a new Celibidache edition too.
                                    > >
                                    > > Alain
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > > __________________________________
                                    > > Do you Yahoo!?
                                    > > Yahoo! Mail Address AutoComplete - You start. We finish.
                                    > > http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
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                                  • Masayuki Nakamura
                                    Dear Alain, It is a problem it does NOT sound like the same recording due to different equalisation at first hearing. EMI obviously boosted lower frequency
                                    Message 17 of 26 , Jul 21, 2004
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                                      Dear Alain,

                                      It is a problem it does NOT sound like the same recording due to
                                      different equalisation at first hearing. EMI obviously boosted lower
                                      frequency range in the new transfer. Whether they (or IMG) did it
                                      intensionally is something I do not know. I am not talking about
                                      the emotion, but a critical comparison necesary to eliminate fakes.

                                      If you have two CD players around you, try play both (IMG/EMI on one
                                      player and any 1943 disc available on the other) synchronising them
                                      using headphones, one earphone in you left ear and another in your
                                      right ear. You then will hear one and the same performance in your
                                      head including all the small noises, which were incidental.

                                      Mr. Ernst Lumpe should have a sophisticated computer, which can
                                      compare electronically two recordings. He would be able to help
                                      solving the problem ultimately.

                                      The CD set was well sold in Japan and it has already been established
                                      among "WF listeners" that the two performances are no doubt one and the
                                      same recording.

                                      A rumour tells that when we heard about the set for the first time,
                                      it was told that the #5 lacks the first movement. IMG/EMI might have
                                      genuine 1944 performance, but three movements only.

                                      Masayuki Nakamura


                                      --- Alain L Perron <caliwwero@...> wrote:
                                      > DEar Masayuki,
                                      >
                                      > I have the 1943 and the 1944 ot the 5th, it seems that it this not the same
                                      > recordings, the
                                      > emotion is not the same, I prefer the 1943.
                                      >
                                      > ALP
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > --- Masayuki Nakamura <musinakjp@...> wrote: > I assume that the panel has
                                      > not yet realised
                                      > that the Beethoven #5
                                      > > included in this set reporetedly a live performance from 7 February 1944
                                      > > is identical with the Magnetofonkonzert recording so far reportedly was
                                      > > made in June 1943 and available through numerous lables including EMI
                                      > > itself.
                                      > >
                                      > > The actual recording date is still to be analysed (it may be 1944),
                                      > > but it is absurd for EMI, which previously issued that 1943 performance,
                                      > > to say that they issued "previously unreleased" performance, which is not
                                      > > true. The recording has no audience noise - meaning it is at least NOT
                                      > > a live recording.
                                      > >
                                      > > Masayuki Nakamura, Yokohama, Japan
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > > --- Alain L Perron <caliwwero@...> wrote:
                                      > > > Most of Wilhelm Furtw ngler's known recordings (both live and in the studio)
                                      > are
                                      > > > now available on
                                      > > > CD, so this compilation of Beethoven is particularly important in offering two
                                      > > > previously
                                      > > > unreleased live recordings (of the Fifth Symphony from Berlin in 1944 and of
                                      > the
                                      > > > 'Eroica' from
                                      > > > Vienna in 1953) and a third (of the 9th Symphony given in London in 1937) that
                                      > has
                                      > > > only previously
                                      > > > been available on CD in Japan.
                                      > > >
                                      > > > Catalogue number: 5 62875 2 (2CDs for the price of 1 mid-price CD). Bar code:
                                      > 7243
                                      > > > 5 62875 2 5
                                      > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > > > Look the Emi website.
                                      > > > And a new Celibidache edition too.
                                      > > >
                                      > > > Alain
                                      > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > > > __________________________________
                                      > > > Do you Yahoo!?
                                      > > > Yahoo! Mail Address AutoComplete - You start. We finish.
                                      > > > http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
                                      > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------
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                                    • Pascal Auffinger
                                      Dear Members, If the fifth of this EMI set is not new, what about the third ? Does anyone have clues on that issue ? Pascal ... ________________________ pascal
                                      Message 18 of 26 , Jul 23, 2004
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                                        Dear Members,

                                        If the fifth of this EMI set is not new, what about the third ?
                                        Does anyone have clues on that issue ?

                                        Pascal


                                        > Dear Alain,
                                        >
                                        > It is a problem it does NOT sound like the same recording due to
                                        > different equalisation at first hearing. EMI obviously boosted lower
                                        > frequency range in the new transfer. Whether they (or IMG) did it
                                        > intensionally is something I do not know. I am not talking about
                                        > the emotion, but a critical comparison necesary to eliminate fakes.
                                        >
                                        > If you have two CD players around you, try play both (IMG/EMI on one
                                        > player and any 1943 disc available on the other) synchronising them
                                        > using headphones, one earphone in you left ear and another in your
                                        > right ear. You then will hear one and the same performance in your
                                        > head including all the small noises, which were incidental.
                                        >
                                        > Mr. Ernst Lumpe should have a sophisticated computer, which can
                                        > compare electronically two recordings. He would be able to help
                                        > solving the problem ultimately.
                                        >
                                        > The CD set was well sold in Japan and it has already been established
                                        > among "WF listeners" that the two performances are no doubt one and the
                                        > same recording.
                                        >
                                        > A rumour tells that when we heard about the set for the first time,
                                        > it was told that the #5 lacks the first movement. IMG/EMI might have
                                        > genuine 1944 performance, but three movements only.
                                        >
                                        > Masayuki Nakamura
                                        >
                                        >>>>
                                        >>>> __________________________________
                                        >>>> Do you Yahoo!?
                                        >>>> Yahoo! Mail Address AutoComplete - You start. We finish.
                                        >>>> http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
                                        >>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
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                                        ________________________
                                        pascal auffinger
                                        ibmc-cnrs
                                        15 rue rené descartes
                                        f-67084 strasbourg cedex
                                        france

                                        tel: (33) 388 41 70 49
                                        mob: (33) 616 98 55 07
                                        fax: (33) 388 60 22 18

                                        e-mail: p.auffinger@ibmc.u-strasbg.fr
                                        http://www-ibmc.u-strasbg.fr/upr9002/westhof/biblio_pascal.html
                                        ________________________________________________________________

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                                      • Alain L Perron
                                        http://minilien.com/?qLPKpG3Tdg DGG have made a new edition of Furtwangler cds. CD 6 contains great interviews of given by Furtwangler. A must, but first if
                                        Message 19 of 26 , Aug 16, 2004
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                                          http://minilien.com/?qLPKpG3Tdg

                                          DGG have made a new edition of Furtwangler cds.

                                          CD 6 contains great interviews of given by Furtwangler.

                                          A must, but first if you do not have too much doublon

                                          Alain



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                                        • Raymond Chan
                                          === The original message was multipart MIME === ... * POSTED to furt-l - the Furtwangler Mailing List * Send new posts to furt-l@amulation.com * To
                                          Message 20 of 26 , Aug 16, 2004
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                                            === The original message was multipart MIME ===
                                            === All non-text parts (attachments) have been removed ===

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                                          • Raymond Chan
                                            Oops, the last message didn t go through. Let s try again: Ebay currently has one copy for bidding....
                                            Message 21 of 26 , Aug 16, 2004
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                                              Oops, the last message didn't go through. Let's try
                                              again:

                                              Ebay currently has one copy for bidding....

                                              http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=4031105103

                                              -----------------------------------------------

                                              Alain L Perron <caliwwero@...> wrote:

                                              http://minilien.com/?qLPKpG3Tdg

                                              DGG have made a new edition of Furtwangler cds.

                                              CD 6 contains great interviews of given by
                                              Furtwangler.

                                              A must, but first if you do not have too much doublon

                                              Alain

                                              =====
                                              /+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+\
                                              # Raymond Chan Markham, Ontario, Canada #
                                              # ~~~~~~~ Mahler - Shostakovich - Bruckner ~~~~~~ #
                                              # "Without music, life would be a mistake" #
                                              # -- Friedrich Nietzsche #
                                              \+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+/
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