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Re: [furt-l] FYI (debate?) - 'What has C sharp minor got to do with fascism?

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  • Rob Sibie
    Thanks for the clarification, mister Berry. I was rushing without some nuance, I guess:-) Anyway, I ll try the Pfitzner-recording, because I never heard this
    Message 1 of 9 , Feb 6, 2001
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      Thanks for the clarification, mister Berry. I was rushing without some
      nuance, I guess:-)

      Anyway, I'll try the Pfitzner-recording, because I never heard this piece of
      music. Is Thielemann's Beethoven really that good?

      Rob


      >
      >To be fair, that might be how some, rather than all, English people "deal
      >with" those holding German art in high esteem. Some of us happen to hold
      >both German art and Christian Thielemann in very high esteem. If you have
      >not heard him, it would definitely be worth your while. He conducted
      >Pfitzner's 'Palestrina' superbly at Covent Garden last week. (I remain
      >somewhat ambivalent about the work itself, I must admit.)
      >
      >Mark Berry.
      >
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    • samir golescu
      ... giving the upbeat (as I have seen the former do on more than one occasion)?
      Message 2 of 9 , Feb 6, 2001
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        >> I wonder if Thielemann's beloved WF ever clicked his heels before
        giving the upbeat (as I have seen the former do on more than one
        occasion)? <<

        That gives plenty of food for concern... On the other hand, I wonder what
        should I do with the reliable (because corroborated by the ex-fiance of a
        cousin of my aunt) piece of information that Maestro Rattle has been seen
        in the Berlin-Spandau Station, waving his extended right hand, toward a
        leaving train, in a way that. . .

        with both eyebrows *highly* raised,
        yours truly,
        SG
        Watchword: VIGILANCE

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      • Mark Berry
        ... Thielemann has only recorded orchestral movements from Pfitzner ( Palestrina and a ouple of other operas), not Palestrina itself. The disc is coupled
        Message 3 of 9 , Feb 7, 2001
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          On Tue, 6 Feb 2001, Rob Sibie wrote:

          > Anyway, I'll try the Pfitzner-recording, because I never heard this piece of
          > music. Is Thielemann's Beethoven really that good?
          >
          Thielemann has only recorded orchestral movements from Pfitzner
          ('Palestrina' and a ouple of other operas), not 'Palestrina' itself. The
          disc is coupled with rare Strauss. If you are interested in 'Palestrina',
          I recommend Kubelik's DG recording, with Fischer-Dieskau, Gedda et al.

          Regarding his Beethoven, I know that a lot of people disagree with me
          strongly, but I think that his Philharmonia disc of the Fifth and Seventh
          Symphonies is superb. The richness of the orchestral sound is quite
          extraordinary, but more importantly, these are interpretations that allow
          the music to breathe and to develop, with great cumulative force. They may
          well be influenced by WF, but are very much Thielemann's
          interpretations. To my mind, his Beethoven Fifth knocks spots off Rattle's
          far from negligible performances with the VPO a little while ago, the
          latter at times - though far from exclusively - deferring rather too much
          for my ears' liking to 'period' considerations. (On the other hand, I
          thought the Rattle/VPO Berg Lulu Suite a truly great performance.)

          Perhaps an even finer disc, however, is his Philharmonia account of the
          Schumann Third Symphony, the Concert Piece for four horns, and the
          Overture, Scherzo, and Finale. On hearing this, I at last began to develop
          an appreciation for Schumann's orchestral works, something which had long
          eluded me. The tempo changes would no doubt be considered quite daring, if
          not beyond the pale, nowadays, but for me they seemed necessray, rather
          than applied. And it seems to me that Thielemann has a great degree of
          control over his orchestras - without ever letting this become an ened in
          itself. He may be young, but is not *that* young, and I think has
          benefited from a strong beginning to his career largely out of the
          spotlight of publicity. Now, I hope, he will prove mature enough to
          withstand the deleterious effects of 'stardom'. That to which we ought
          very much to look forward is a future recording of 'The Mastersingers' (I
          live in hope); his reading at Bayreuth this summer was already more than
          tinged with greatness.

          Mark Berry.


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