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Re: [furt-l] WF Bach St Matthew

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  • summers2@libertysurf.co.uk
    ... From: Deryk Barker To: Sent: Saturday, September 30, 2000 8:28 PM Subject: Re: [furt-l] WF Bach
    Message 1 of 15 , Oct 1, 2000
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      ----- Original Message -----
      From: "Deryk Barker" <dbarker@...>
      To: <furt-l@...>
      Sent: Saturday, September 30, 2000 8:28 PM
      Subject: Re: [furt-l] WF Bach St Matthew


      > Thus spake summers2@... (summers2@...):
      > [...]
      > >
      > > Assuming they had access to the complete performance, I wonder why
      Frequenz
      > > used three discs and then missed out a number. Their issue on Europa
      Musica
      > > 051.005 lasts for just over 154 min. and so could have fitted onto two
      CDs
      > > timed at approx. 76' and 78'.
      >
      > Depends when they were made. Thr original Red Book limited the CD to
      > 74 minutes.


      Publication date 1994.

      W. Summers

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    • summers2@libertysurf.co.uk
      ... From: To: Sent: Sunday, October 01, 2000 9:02 AM Subject: Re: [furt-l] WF Bach St Matthew ... Further
      Message 2 of 15 , Oct 1, 2000
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        ----- Original Message -----
        From: <summers2@...>
        To: <furt-l@...>
        Sent: Sunday, October 01, 2000 9:02 AM
        Subject: Re: [furt-l] WF Bach St Matthew


        > ----- Original Message -----
        > From: "Deryk Barker" <dbarker@...>
        > To: <furt-l@...>
        > Sent: Saturday, September 30, 2000 8:28 PM
        > Subject: Re: [furt-l] WF Bach St Matthew
        >
        >
        > > Thus spake summers2@... (summers2@...):
        > > [...]
        > > >
        > > > Assuming they had access to the complete performance, I wonder why
        > Frequenz
        > > > used three discs and then missed out a number. Their issue on Europa
        > Musica
        > > > 051.005 lasts for just over 154 min. and so could have fitted onto two
        > CDs
        > > > timed at approx. 76' and 78'.
        > >
        > > Depends when they were made. The original Red Book limited the CD to
        > > 74 minutes.
        >
        >
        > Publication date 1994.

        Further to this, Pearl managed an 80 min. CD in 1991.
        So I think Italian firms are ahead on getting performances out on disc
        without observing (m)any legal niceties but behind the times when it comes
        to CD
        playing time. In LP days as well, some of the Fonit Cetra issues, for
        instance, had short playing sides and the most annoying sidebreaks. The LP
        set of Furtwangler(?) Bruckner 8 dated 1954 has a break not only in the
        scherzo but in the slow movement as
        well.

        W. Summers.


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      • MWKluge@aol.com
        In a message dated 10/1/00 1:18:09 PM Central Daylight Time, ... There is no more question mark, the VPO archive confirmed this Bruckner 8 as genuine
        Message 3 of 15 , Oct 1, 2000
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          In a message dated 10/1/00 1:18:09 PM Central Daylight Time,
          summers2@... writes:

          >
          > playing time. In LP days as well, some of the Fonit Cetra issues, for
          > instance, had short playing sides and the most annoying sidebreaks. The LP
          > set of Furtwangler(?) Bruckner 8 dated 1954 has a break not only in the
          > scherzo but in the slow movement as
          > well.

          There is no more question mark, the VPO archive confirmed this Bruckner 8 as
          genuine Furtwangler. However, the Cetra LP layout was truly idiotic, as
          noted.

          Mark Kluge
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        • Deryk Barker
          ... Wasn t the doubt originally caused by the claims (of Cetra?) that it used the Nowak edition, which had yet to be published; whereas in fact it is simply
          Message 4 of 15 , Oct 1, 2000
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            Thus spake MWKluge@... (MWKluge@...):

            > In a message dated 10/1/00 1:18:09 PM Central Daylight Time,
            > summers2@... writes:
            >
            > >
            > > playing time. In LP days as well, some of the Fonit Cetra issues, for
            > > instance, had short playing sides and the most annoying sidebreaks. The LP
            > > set of Furtwangler(?) Bruckner 8 dated 1954 has a break not only in the
            > > scherzo but in the slow movement as
            > > well.
            >
            > There is no more question mark, the VPO archive confirmed this Bruckner 8 as
            > genuine Furtwangler. However, the Cetra LP layout was truly idiotic, as
            > noted.

            Wasn't the doubt originally caused by the claims (of Cetra?) that it
            used the Nowak edition, which had yet to be published; whereas in fact
            it is simply the 1890 score rather than the Hass (mod. Furtwa"ngler)
            which our man usually conducted?

            --
            |Deryk Barker, Computer Science Dept. | Music does not have to be understood|
            |Camosun College, Victoria, BC, Canada| It has to be listened to. |
            |email: dbarker@... | |
            |phone: +1 250 370 4452 | Hermann Scherchen. |

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          • MWKluge@aol.com
            In a message dated 10/1/00 10:02:53 PM Central Daylight Time, ... Those Nowak claims were made not by Cetra, but by the annotator of a later CD release on
            Message 5 of 15 , Oct 2, 2000
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              In a message dated 10/1/00 10:02:53 PM Central Daylight Time,
              dbarker@... writes:

              >
              > Wasn't the doubt originally caused by the claims (of Cetra?) that it
              > used the Nowak edition, which had yet to be published; whereas in fact
              > it is simply the 1890 score rather than the Hass (mod. Furtwa"ngler)
              > which our man usually conducted?
              >

              Those Nowak claims were made not by Cetra, but by the annotator of a later CD
              release on Hunt. The doubts began with the first LP release because WF used
              the 1892 edition for the April 1954 concert. The VPO parts of that edition
              were marked by several players, noting that WF conducted it in 1954.
              Incidentally, the VPO program notes for this concert were written by Leopold
              Nowak! The musical examples printed in the program book are from the 1892
              score.

              Mark Kluge
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