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Re: black

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  • Tom Casey
    16 bit... good solution if the projects can afford it... unfortunately it s use will be limited. As for the standards, that s gonna be a tough one to execute
    Message 1 of 5 , Apr 8, 2006
      16 bit... good solution if the projects can afford it...
      unfortunately it's use will be limited. As for the standards, that's
      gonna be a tough one to execute with the range of projectors out
      there, some very old. So what do you do, get every projector and
      every projection system at a single location and decide... oops,
      different domes too... sounds like an impossible challenge. There
      has got to be some easier way to do this!

      > Interesting story and a very good point. The AMNH content has been
      > shown on all kinds of systems, from Sky-Skan to Spitz to E&S,
      > through ADLIPs, DLPs, CRTs, and so on... And the differences truly
      > are enormous. We've found we wanted to do a lot of tweaking for
      > each system, and our desire for flexibility in that regard prompted
      > us to render "Collisions" at 16-bit, so we'd have a greater range
      > to work with when adapting the content for different systems.

      > One of our goals with the next several standards meetings is to
      > tackle issues like this. Ideally, we'd devise a way to
      > characterize the behavior of a system (i.e., video source,
      > projector, and dome surface) to facilitate maintaining the
      > uniformity of content's appearance. Thus, you might put up a test
      > frame in your dome, then adjust some system parameters to make it
      > look right, safe in the knowledge that material you show will look
      > just as its creators intended it to.

      > The challenge is to parameterize the systems while still allowing
      > for their strengths -- e.g., the expanded color space of DLPs or
      > ADLIPs compared to CRTs.

      > Just some food for thought on a Saturday morning...


      ************************************************
      H o m e R u n P i c t u r e s

      Tom Casey
      President & Creative Director

      100 First Avenue - Suite 450
      Pittsburgh, PA 15222
      412-391-8200
      mailto:tom@...
      http://www.hrpictures.com
    • Tom Casey
      ... Ryan... not all the tools being used to create content can do 16 bit... and the added expense will be an issue... ... That sounds like a possibility as far
      Message 2 of 5 , Apr 8, 2006
        >> 16 bit.... good solution if the projects can afford it...
        >> unfortunately its use will be limited.

        > I'm curious what you mean by its use being limited.

        Ryan... not all the tools being used to create content can do 16
        bit... and the added expense will be an issue...

        > Sorry, I guess I was unclear... The idea is to devise an empirical
        > "calibration frame" (or series of frames) that one would display in
        > the dome. Then, assuming you can adjust gamma or maybe some other
        > items on the fly (or maybe as part of a processing step), you then
        > set your parameters to make the calibration frame appear as it
        > should. If the calibration frame looks right, then the rest of the
        > content should, too.

        > Take gamma adjustment as an example. The calibration frame may
        > show different gradations of color, different grey scales, etc.,
        > and when you display it with the correct gamma, you see all the
        > faint stuff without blowing out the bright stuff. That gamma value
        > will vary depending on the playback system, the projectors, and the
        > dome, but you only need to worry about the end result -- the
        > appearance of the frame on the dome.

        > To be honest, I'm not sure what the whole parameter space looks
        > like. As we get into issues of color balance and color space,
        > things become knottier, but I hope not of the Gordian variety. We
        > need to initiate constructive conversations about these ideas to
        > see if we can make them work. Those of us producing content have
        > the most to gain from seeing it displayed consistently across the
        > wide variety of systems out there.

        That sounds like a possibility as far as the gamma aspect, but still
        very difficult to implement in my view for all the other variables...

        Content right now is being created very independently, so there is a
        big difference in the tools being used to create it and changing that
        will be next to impossible because the tools take so long to learn...
        no one wants to switch their toolset. The film industry has had
        success in similar areas because the path is very similar, no matter
        who is creating and there is a common goal across all involved... the
        end spool of film to distribute to all those theaters.

        The planetarium market is very independent with every site surviving
        on their own with their own goals and methods for achieving those
        goals... where's the common denominator?

        ************************************************
        H o m e R u n P i c t u r e s

        Tom Casey
        President & Creative Director

        100 First Avenue - Suite 450
        Pittsburgh, PA 15222
        412-391-8200
        mailto:tom@...
        http://www.hrpictures.com
      • Andy Dolph
        ... what about using a colorimeter or some other sort of measurement tools to quantify the performance of a system in a particular dome in a way that it could
        Message 3 of 5 , Apr 9, 2006
          > That sounds like a possibility as far as the gamma aspect, but still
          > very difficult to implement in my view for all the other variables...

          what about using a colorimeter or some other sort of measurement tools
          to quantify the performance of a system in a particular dome in a way
          that it could be compared to others and at least to some extent
          processed for...

          Andy
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