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RE: Status of fulldome projection...

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  • Martin Howe
    Well maybe Ryan, The first time I saw true black in your theatre a few years back I was hooked. There s something about it isn t there? The disorientation,
    Message 1 of 6 , Apr 5 2:40 AM
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      Well maybe Ryan,

      The first time I saw 'true' black in your theatre a few years back I was
      hooked. There's something about it isn't there? The disorientation, the
      lack of reference, context determined purely by content (including
      sound). It's a unique visual environment, a place that can take you (and
      a few hundred others) to anyplace. Yes I am hooked, and I do think it
      would be nice to see black again in theatres!.


      Martin




      Martin Howe
      Vice President, Visualization & Operations
      SEOS Ltd
      tel: +44 (0) 1444 870 888
      mob +44 (0) 7793 414 553
      www.seos.com

      -----Original Message-----
      From: Ryan Wyatt [mailto:ryan@...]
      Sent: 04 April 2006 18:14
      To: Martin Howe; fulldome@yahoogroups.com
      Cc: Ryan Wyatt
      Subject: Re: Status of fulldome projection...


      > It would be nice to see 'black' again in a theatre, wouldn't it?

      Are you teasing us, Martin...?


      Ryan.
    • Ed Lantz
      I agree about the black levels. When a digital theater fades to black and you can still clearly see everyone in the room it s just not the same experience -
      Message 2 of 6 , Apr 5 9:04 AM
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        I agree about the black levels. When a digital theater fades to black
        and you can still clearly see everyone in the room it's just not the
        same experience - even if the "black" level is perfectly uniform across
        the dome (which it typically is not with an edge-blended system). DLP
        theater pioneers have been taking this in stride, and each successive
        generation of DLP-based theater has improved over the prior one. Of the
        ones I've seen, Chabot currently wins the prize for best contrast in a
        DLP system.

        2000:1 is where the DLP/LCoS bar is currently hovering
        5000:1 sequential contrast looks damn good
        10,000:1 sequential contrast is practically there
        50,000:1+ is the holy grail - anything beyond this is gravy

        In edge-blended systems, beware that the projector contrast ratio is not
        the same as system contrast ratio. By the time all projectors are
        edge-blended and color balanced, system contrast could easily drop in
        half depending on how well the projectors are balanced.

        Of all the systems out there (CRT's aside) the Zeiss ADLIP is the only
        one that approaches the holy grail (as far as I know). That leaves a
        huge portion of the digital planetarium market in the gray - or in a
        back room with a soldering iron fixing their ageing CRT projectors.

        ...and SEOS has something brewing that will deliver a digital image with
        true blacks, Martin?

        Ed Lantz
        ed@...

        -----Original Message-----
        From: fulldome@yahoogroups.com [mailto:fulldome@yahoogroups.com] On
        Behalf Of Martin Howe
        Sent: Wednesday, April 05, 2006 5:40 AM
        To: Ryan Wyatt; fulldome@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: [fulldome] RE: Status of fulldome projection...

        Well maybe Ryan,

        The first time I saw 'true' black in your theatre a few years back I was
        hooked. There's something about it isn't there? The disorientation, the
        lack of reference, context determined purely by content (including
        sound). It's a unique visual environment, a place that can take you (and
        a few hundred others) to anyplace. Yes I am hooked, and I do think it
        would be nice to see black again in theatres!.


        Martin

        Martin Howe
        Vice President, Visualization & Operations
        SEOS Ltd
        tel: +44 (0) 1444 870 888
        mob +44 (0) 7793 414 553
        www.seos.com

        -----Original Message-----
        From: Ryan Wyatt [mailto:ryan@...]
        Sent: 04 April 2006 18:14
        To: Martin Howe; fulldome@yahoogroups.com
        Cc: Ryan Wyatt
        Subject: Re: Status of fulldome projection...


        > It would be nice to see 'black' again in a theatre, wouldn't it?

        Are you teasing us, Martin...?


        Ryan.
      • Martin Howe
        ...and whatever technology is deployed, careful consideration has to be given to choice and use of content because of the inherent scatter problems in a Dome.
        Message 3 of 6 , Apr 6 10:42 AM
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          ...and whatever technology is deployed, careful consideration has to be
          given to choice and use of content because of the inherent scatter
          problems in a Dome. Even in a theatre with a low screen gain, bright
          content on one side of the dome screen will still reflect light onto the
          opposite side (and around it) which will compromise 'where' black is (at
          what level).

          What does work well (I think) are scenes with predominantly dark content
          and a few bright and colourful spots (in other words scenes that cover a
          high dynamic range of content around the dome) and rapid transitions
          from bright content to dark (and vice versa). This is the area of
          expertise of the content creators (which I'm not) and I would really
          like to hear from those experts as to how they optimise content for
          exploiting the dynamic range envelope of a dome and it's potential for
          immersion and 'separation' (decoupling the audience from where they
          physically are to where the content can take them). I also really enjoy
          the HDR stills that are being shown by the likes of Denver and Chabot,
          this is a relatively new area for Domes but can present stunning images;
          the high contrast of the content gives it depth and the ability to
          rotate it gives it the separation.

          As for black, yes we have developed a technology for our Simulation
          customers to replace CRT's for night vision applications (and others).
          We believe that this should translate well into Dome Theatres. We've
          done a few tests recently and it's looking promising. Our marketing
          machine (Beth) will be springing into action soon I'm sure. We'll keep
          you all posted...


          Martin


          Martin Howe
          Vice President, Visualization & Operations
          SEOS Ltd
          tel: +44 (0) 1444 870 888
          mob +44 (0) 7793 414 553
          www.seos.com

          -----Original Message-----
          From: Ed Lantz [mailto:ed@...]
          Sent: 05 April 2006 17:04
          To: Martin Howe; fulldome@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: RE: Status of fulldome projection...

          I agree about the black levels. When a digital theater fades to black
          and you can still clearly see everyone in the room it's just not the
          same experience - even if the "black" level is perfectly uniform across
          the dome (which it typically is not with an edge-blended system). DLP
          theater pioneers have been taking this in stride, and each successive
          generation of DLP-based theater has improved over the prior one. Of the
          ones I've seen, Chabot currently wins the prize for best contrast in a
          DLP system.

          2000:1 is where the DLP/LCoS bar is currently hovering
          5000:1 sequential contrast looks damn good
          10,000:1 sequential contrast is practically there
          50,000:1+ is the holy grail - anything beyond this is gravy

          In edge-blended systems, beware that the projector contrast ratio is not
          the same as system contrast ratio. By the time all projectors are
          edge-blended and color balanced, system contrast could easily drop in
          half depending on how well the projectors are balanced.

          Of all the systems out there (CRT's aside) the Zeiss ADLIP is the only
          one that approaches the holy grail (as far as I know). That leaves a
          huge portion of the digital planetarium market in the gray - or in a
          back room with a soldering iron fixing their ageing CRT projectors.

          ...and SEOS has something brewing that will deliver a digital image with
          true blacks, Martin?

          Ed Lantz
          ed@...

          -----Original Message-----
          From: fulldome@yahoogroups.com [mailto:fulldome@yahoogroups.com] On
          Behalf Of Martin Howe
          Sent: Wednesday, April 05, 2006 5:40 AM
          To: Ryan Wyatt; fulldome@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: [fulldome] RE: Status of fulldome projection...

          Well maybe Ryan,

          The first time I saw 'true' black in your theatre a few years back I was
          hooked. There's something about it isn't there? The disorientation, the
          lack of reference, context determined purely by content (including
          sound). It's a unique visual environment, a place that can take you (and
          a few hundred others) to anyplace. Yes I am hooked, and I do think it
          would be nice to see black again in theatres!.


          Martin


          Martin Howe
          Vice President, Visualization & Operations
          SEOS Ltd
          tel: +44 (0) 1444 870 888
          mob +44 (0) 7793 414 553
          www.seos.com

          -----Original Message-----
          From: Ryan Wyatt [mailto:ryan@...]
          Sent: 04 April 2006 18:14
          To: Martin Howe; fulldome@yahoogroups.com
          Cc: Ryan Wyatt
          Subject: Re: Status of fulldome projection...


          > It would be nice to see 'black' again in a theatre, wouldn't it?

          Are you teasing us, Martin...?


          Ryan.
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