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Re: RED camera package recommendations?

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  • Jeffrey S. Farrell
    Hi Tom et all, No diz taken! :-) You are absolutely right, shooting for the dome is completely different than shooting for flat cinema, TV, etc.. I have
    Message 1 of 11 , Dec 29, 2012
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      Hi Tom et all,

      No "diz" taken! :-) You are absolutely right, shooting for the dome is completely different than shooting for flat cinema, TV, etc.. I have worked on many IMAX/OMNIMAX movies and our OMNIMAX versions were pretty much the same as shooting for a planetarium dome. We applied certain filtering, horizon lines and special movements to make "dome" shows really immersive for the audience.

      180 degree hemispherical dome shooting is pretty much identical to shooting OMNIMAX however at 24fps we had to be even more careful of strobing/picket fence effects.

      Cheers,
      Jeff
    • Ed Lantz
      Jeff Farrell writes: I have worked on many IMAX/OMNIMAX movies and our OMNIMAX versions were pretty much the same as shooting for a planetarium dome. While
      Message 2 of 11 , Jan 1, 2013
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        Jeff Farrell writes:

        "I have worked on many IMAX/OMNIMAX movies and our OMNIMAX versions were
        pretty much the same as shooting for a planetarium dome."

        While Omnimax (IMAX Dome) films can screen in fulldome format, there are
        also some important differences. Most fulldome films are shot/rendered in
        native fisheye (180-degree vertical by 360 degree horizontal field-of-view)
        format. Most IMAX format films are shot in flat screen format and later
        adapted for the dome. While giant screen formatting for domes as mentioned
        by Jeff is admirable (filtering, horizon lines and special movements to make
        "dome" shows really immersive for the audience), the resulting film
        typically cannot fully exploit the immersive nature of fulldome programming,
        in my experience.

        There are cognitive effects produced by parallax and "optic flow" across the
        retina - especially in scenes rich in frame-to-frame depth disparity (for
        instance, where the camera point-of-view moves through scenes with both near
        and far objects) - that can induce a 3D effect in the brain without stereo
        glasses. There are in fact over a dozen "monocular cues" for depth
        perception and some of the key ones are difficult to preserve when
        converting a flat-screen film into a dome film. The result is that, for
        certain scenes, the brain perceives the image as being mapped onto a "bowl"
        rather than being tricked into perceiving a vivid 3D sense-of-presence in an
        infinite space.

        Most fulldome films are also 30 fps and fully hemispheric.

        Unfortunately, the resolution/frame rate limitations of digital cameras
        force us to use "tricks" to capture fulldome imagery, including camera
        clusters, truncated imagery (with visual effects to synthesize a fulldome
        image if required), limited field-of-view imagery composited into fulldome
        still frame "plates," re-mapping of flat-screen imagery, scaling up of
        low-resolution fisheye cinematography of and such. Hopefully we'll soon have
        an affordable yet robust fulldome camera solution for live-action
        cinematography.

        ed

        From: fulldome@yahoogroups.com [mailto:fulldome@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
        Of Jeffrey S. Farrell
        Sent: Saturday, December 29, 2012 1:50 PM
        To: fulldome@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: [fulldome] Re: RED camera package recommendations?

        Hi Tom et all,

        No "diz" taken! :-) You are absolutely right, shooting for the dome is
        completely different than shooting for flat cinema, TV, etc.. I have worked
        on many IMAX/OMNIMAX movies and our OMNIMAX versions were pretty much the
        same as shooting for a planetarium dome. We applied certain filtering,
        horizon lines and special movements to make "dome" shows really immersive
        for the audience.

        180 degree hemispherical dome shooting is pretty much identical to shooting
        OMNIMAX however at 24fps we had to be even more careful of strobing/picket
        fence effects.

        Cheers,
        Jeff
      • fortcollinsmuseum
        Thank you to everyone for your helpful and thoughtful comments! Very useful and much appreciated! ... We are interested in spec ing a RED camera package that
        Message 3 of 11 , Jan 2, 2013
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          Thank you to everyone for your helpful and thoughtful comments! Very useful and much appreciated!

          --- In fulldome@yahoogroups.com, "fortcollinsmuseum" <tburton@...> wrote:

          We are interested in spec'ing a RED camera package that would allow us to work with live video in our 4.3K dome theater. There are a bewildering variety of options and components! Can anyone recommend or share what they've put together, and how it's worked for them? Thanks! Terry
        • cpm5280
          ... Yes, hopefully soon. With RED s forthcoming Dragon sensor upgrade to the Epic line (which will do 6K at 85fps on a 30.7 × 15.8mm sensor), the biggest
          Message 4 of 11 , Jan 5, 2013
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            --- In fulldome@yahoogroups.com, "Ed Lantz" wrote:

            > Unfortunately, the resolution/frame rate limitations of digital cameras
            > force us to use "tricks" to capture fulldome imagery, including camera
            > clusters, truncated imagery (with visual effects to synthesize a fulldome
            > image if required), limited field-of-view imagery composited into fulldome
            > still frame "plates," re-mapping of flat-screen imagery, scaling up of
            > low-resolution fisheye cinematography of and such. Hopefully we'll soon have
            > an affordable yet robust fulldome camera solution for live-action
            > cinematography.

            Yes, hopefully soon. With RED's forthcoming "Dragon" sensor upgrade to the Epic line (which will do 6K at 85fps on a 30.7 × 15.8mm sensor), the biggest issue (aside from cost! hah!) is lenses. There are, of course, various fisheye lenses that will sort of do what we would all like, but none that are a) available b) affordable c) project the appropriate image circle size and d) retain enough quality at the edges to be useful for in-camera fulldome shooting.

            The old 6mm Nikon fisheye will do 220 degree FOV, which would allow for a nice 180 degree crop, and the crop is from the weakest portion of the image, at the edges. Unfortunately, I think the last one I saw sold for six figures.
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