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Extreme fisheye

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  • Will
    Does anyone know how close people have got to filming outdoor or extreme sports in dome fisheye format? It seems people often use fisheye lenses to film this
    Message 1 of 11 , Oct 26, 2009
      Does anyone know how close people have got to filming outdoor or extreme sports in dome fisheye format?

      It seems people often use 'fisheye' lenses to film this type of activity but I think it will be rare that these are true 180 circular fisheye images or filmed in a style suitable for dome playback.

      Has anyone tried anything like this before? I'm thinking people snowboarding or jumping out of a plane with a camera..


      Cheers guys
    • Ed Lantz
      Immersive Media Corp. (www.immersivemedia.com) has shot many hours of extreme spherical video, including base jumpers in Korea. Unfortunately the resolution is
      Message 2 of 11 , Oct 26, 2009
        Immersive Media Corp. (www.immersivemedia.com) has shot many hours of extreme spherical video, including base jumpers in Korea. Unfortunately the resolution is only around 2K.

        The Volkswagen pavilion at Autostadt in Wolfsburg, Germany shot skateboarders jumping over the audience. I think the producers used a VistaVision 35mm camera.

        E

        Ed Lantz
        Visual Bandwidth, Inc.
        ed@...
        www.visualbandwidth.com

        -----Original Message-----
        From: "Will" <w_h_s_y@...>
        Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2009 13:54:41
        To: <fulldome@yahoogroups.com>
        Subject: [fulldome] Extreme fisheye

        Does anyone know how close people have got to filming outdoor or extreme sports in dome fisheye format?

        It seems people often use 'fisheye' lenses to film this type of activity but I think it will be rare that these are true 180 circular fisheye images or filmed in a style suitable for dome playback.

        Has anyone tried anything like this before? I'm thinking people snowboarding or jumping out of a plane with a camera..
      • Tom Casey
        There are a lot of factors that need considered (and resolved) before this kind of fulldome capture will be feasible. So far using our RED and a fisheye we
        Message 3 of 11 , Oct 26, 2009
          There are a lot of factors that need considered (and resolved) before
          this kind of fulldome capture will be feasible. So far using our RED
          and a fisheye we have only captured with success with a locked down
          camera (or simple moves).

          At present, the questions are... what is enough resolution... is the
          camera/lens configuration portable enough... and how do you control
          movement so as not to create a "jarring" experience for the
          audience. And then there is the cost factor of shooting extreme
          style... most of what you currently see is lower resolution using
          small "lipstick" camera approaches so loss of a camera is not a big
          deal.

          From what we have been seeing, the first two issues will eventually
          be resolved, they are a technical problem that as cameras improve
          will be met... and costs always seem to come down, but that will
          happen slower than the tek advances. The motion issue is a different
          matter. What you see currently on flat screen footage has no real
          relationship to a fulldome experience.

          There is going to need to be a lot of experimenting with moving a
          fulldome capture to see what works in the dome... possibly with a lot
          of those little bags you see on planes before an understanding of
          where we can go in immersive experiences is clear.

          Tom

          ************************************************
          H o m e R u n P i c t u r e s

          Tom Casey
          President & Creative Director

          100 First Avenue - Suite 450
          Pittsburgh, PA 15222
          412-391-8200
          mailto:tom@...
          http://www.homerunpictures.com
        • Tom Casey
          Ed... what are they using to capture... do you know? Tom On Oct 26, 2009, at 2:09 PM, Ed Lantz wrote: Immersive Media Corp. (www.immersivemedia.com) has shot
          Message 4 of 11 , Oct 26, 2009
            Ed... what are they using to capture... do you know?

            Tom


            On Oct 26, 2009, at 2:09 PM, Ed Lantz wrote:

            Immersive Media Corp. (www.immersivemedia.com) has shot many hours of
            extreme spherical video, including base jumpers in Korea.
            Unfortunately the resolution is only around 2K.

            ************************************************
            H o m e R u n P i c t u r e s

            Tom Casey
            President & Creative Director

            100 First Avenue - Suite 450
            Pittsburgh, PA 15222
            412-391-8200
            mailto:tom@...
            http://www.homerunpictures.com
          • Will
            This - http://www.immersivemedia.com/#30 Seems to be custom design. Does anyone know if these guys have a licensing structure for their source footage? Will
            Message 5 of 11 , Oct 27, 2009
              This - http://www.immersivemedia.com/#30

              Seems to be custom design.

              Does anyone know if these guys have a licensing structure for their source footage?


              Will
            • pauldavidbourke
              ... The navigable fisheye movies can be accomplished with the LadyBug series of cameras. Been doing a lot of that here ... you capture a full spherical
              Message 6 of 11 , Oct 28, 2009
                > Ed... what are they using to capture... do you know?

                The navigable fisheye movies can be accomplished with the LadyBug series of cameras. Been doing a lot of that here ... you capture a full spherical panoramic image and then play the movie back generating a fisheye. Allows one to look around while the movie plays. A selection of examples below.

                Wollongong Science centre exhibit
                http://local.wasp.uwa.edu.au/~pbourke/exhibition/Wollongong/

                LadyBug-3 examples
                http://local.wasp.uwa.edu.au/~pbourke/miscellaneous/domefisheye/ladybug/

                Commercial remote sensing application
                http://local.wasp.uwa.edu.au/~pbourke/miscellaneous/domefisheye/karratha/

                Some examples in this movie
                http://local.wasp.uwa.edu.au/~pbourke/miscellaneous/domemirror/iDome_544x306.mov
                mostly data examples but the principle is the same, one renders spherical panos rather than film them.

                While these are mostly iDome applications, the principles are the same for planetarium orientated domes.

                And some similar work at iCinema
                http://www.icinema.unsw.edu.au/projects/prj_convostudio_1.html
                http://www.icinema.unsw.edu.au/projects/prj_bourke.html
              • Tom Casey
                Yes, we have been talking to Point Grey for several years now... last time at Siggraph, they kind of hinted at a higher resolution model sometime in the near
                Message 7 of 11 , Oct 28, 2009
                  Yes, we have been talking to Point Grey for several years now... last
                  time at Siggraph, they "kind of" hinted at a higher resolution model
                  sometime in the near future. There are some issues with their multi-
                  camera approach at times, but if they can get the rez higher, they
                  may eventually be a good alternative to using a fisheye lens with the
                  RED or other ultra-HD camera. Our feeling is we need to get to at
                  least a 3K circle to make video capture truly usable in a large dome
                  for storytelling.

                  Tom


                  On Oct 28, 2009, at 7:32 AM, pauldavidbourke wrote:

                  The navigable fisheye movies can be accomplished with the LadyBug
                  series of cameras.

                  ************************************************
                  H o m e R u n P i c t u r e s

                  Tom Casey
                  President & Creative Director

                  100 First Avenue - Suite 450
                  Pittsburgh, PA 15222
                  412-391-8200
                  mailto:tom@...
                  http://www.homerunpictures.com
                • pauldavidbourke
                  ... Sure ... although the LB-3 is a 5400x2700 spherical images so it is getting close to a 3K fisheye, but it does have the usual compression issues compared
                  Message 8 of 11 , Oct 28, 2009
                    > Our feeling is we need to get to at
                    > least a 3K circle to make video capture truly usable in a large dome
                    > for storytelling.

                    Sure ... although the LB-3 is a 5400x2700 spherical images so it is getting close to a 3K fisheye, but it does have the usual compression issues compared to nice pristine CG. A big issue with the LB-3 is it is limited to 16fps, although some of the test material on the 18m planetarium here in Perth (Horizon) looked OK to me ... at least the best video I'd seen on a dome so far.
                  • Tom Casey
                    If I remember the tests we did with the Lady Bug last year, the 2700 pixel vertical also represents image areas below the horizon line of a typical 180
                    Message 9 of 11 , Oct 29, 2009
                      If I remember the tests we did with the Lady Bug last year, the 2700
                      pixel vertical also represents image areas "below" the horizon line
                      of a typical 180 degree fulldome view, so the usable rez is less than
                      what it seems for our purposes. They feel they can bump that up with
                      different chips, but as you said, the frame rate is another issue to
                      solve. We were told that there was just not enough market drive to
                      develop a camera that could create a finished circle over 3k at
                      30fps. When asked if they would consider further development if
                      someone outside contributed to the R&D, they "hinted" at something
                      new maybe next year. We will wait and see.

                      Visually, there is always going to be a difference between captured
                      video sequences and CGI created imagery. It's like the difference
                      now watching films digitally projected vs film projection. There is
                      just a different form of temporal aliasing that the eye responds to
                      one way or another. If we can get the rez and frame rate higher for
                      fulldome video capture, there are ways to "effect" the CGI to blend
                      better. Then we will have both tools available to do our storytelling.

                      With the RED, I feel we are at a stage where there is a need for
                      projects incorporating video capture so we can learn from the
                      experience. There are many creative issues to begin grasping what
                      works and what doesn't so we can begin to understand the medium. Of
                      course there are still creative ways to use whatever is currently
                      available and sufficiently tell a story... and a stylized approach
                      doesn't necessarily require the perfect capturing tool.

                      On Oct 29, 2009, at 12:16 AM, pauldavidbourke wrote:

                      Sure ... although the LB-3 is a 5400x2700 spherical images so it is
                      getting close to a 3K fisheye, but it does have the usual compression
                      issues compared to nice pristine CG. A big issue with the LB-3 is it
                      is limited to 16fps, although some of the test material on the 18m
                      planetarium here in Perth (Horizon) looked OK to me ... at least the
                      best video I'd seen on a dome so far.

                      ************************************************
                      H o m e R u n P i c t u r e s

                      Tom Casey
                      President & Creative Director

                      100 First Avenue - Suite 450
                      Pittsburgh, PA 15222
                      412-391-8200
                      mailto:tom@...
                      http://www.homerunpictures.com
                    • Will
                      Hi Ed, do you know if anyone has used Immersive Media s footage in a dome before? And what do you think would be the best tool to convert the 360degree
                      Message 10 of 11 , Nov 5, 2009
                        Hi Ed, do you know if anyone has used Immersive Media's footage in a dome before?

                        And what do you think would be the best tool to convert the 360degree equirectangular video or images into a 180degree fisheye?


                        Cheers
                        Will
                      • Eric Knisley
                        When I was at Elumens, we did work out a way to view IM content on a dome, and Jason Coposky (one of my colleagues at the Renaissance Computing Institute) has
                        Message 11 of 11 , Nov 5, 2009
                          When I was at Elumens, we did work out a way to view IM content on a
                          dome, and Jason Coposky (one of my colleagues at the Renaissance
                          Computing Institute) has done some more work on it. Not sure where it
                          stands at the moment--drop me a line and I'll hook you up with Jason.

                          --ek

                          Will wrote:

                          > Hi Ed, do you know if anyone has used Immersive Media's footage in a
                          > dome before?

                          > And what do you think would be the best tool to convert the 360degree
                          > equirectangular video or images into a 180degree fisheye?

                          --
                          Eric Knisley
                          Cartoonist | Illustrator | Animator | Photographer
                          Carrboro | NC | US | www.silent-k.net
                          +1 919-491-7406
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