Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.
 

Mental ray fisheye lens shader

Expand Messages
  • Paul Mowbray
    An oft asked question but as we are still waiting for finalRender to be released for 3ds Max 9 does anyone know where I can find a good mental ray fisheye lens
    Message 1 of 16 , Mar 20, 2007
      An oft asked question but as we are still waiting for finalRender to be
      released for 3ds Max 9 does anyone know where I can find a good mental
      ray fisheye lens shader?

      Thanks

      Paul Mowbray

      Digital Animation/Design Artist
      National Space Centre, Exploration Drive, Leicester, LE4 5NS, UK.
      Tel: +44 (0) 116 2582117
      Fax: +44 (0) 116 2582100
      www.spacecentre.co.uk <http://www.spacecentre.co.uk/>
    • Michael J. Narlock
      ... Matt Mascheri has one he converted on his site at www.dome3d.com...it s in the forums at the enclosed link: http://www.dome3d.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=41
      Message 2 of 16 , Mar 20, 2007
        Paul Mowbray wrote:

        > An oft asked question but as we are still waiting for finalRender to be
        > released for 3ds Max 9 does anyone know where I can find a good mental
        > ray fisheye lens shader?

        Matt Mascheri has one he converted on his site at www.dome3d.com...it's
        in the forums at the enclosed link:

        http://www.dome3d.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=41

        --
        Michael J. Narlock

        187 Exmoor Road
        Waterford, MI 48328

        ph: 248.683.9608
      • Matthew
        Hi there Paul. As Michael posted, we have a mental ray fisheye camera shader on our forums http://www.dome3d.com/phpbb It was converted from Daniel Ott s
        Message 3 of 16 , Mar 21, 2007
          Hi there Paul.

          As Michael posted, we have a mental ray fisheye camera shader on our
          forums http://www.dome3d.com/phpbb It was converted from Daniel
          Ott's shader which was created for Maya. You can also find tutorials
          on the forum showing you how to install and use it.

          Hope this helps

          Matthew
        • Ryan Wyatt
          ... First of all, just FYI, your tutorials don t seem to run on Macs (sigh), neither Safari nor Firefox. Anyway... Out of curiosity, how does the speed and
          Message 4 of 16 , Mar 21, 2007
            > As Michael posted, we have a mental ray fisheye camera shader on
            > our forums...

            First of all, just FYI, your tutorials don't seem to run on Macs
            (sigh), neither Safari nor Firefox. Anyway...

            Out of curiosity, how does the speed and efficiency of fisheye
            renderers compare to rendering using, for example, a hemicube and
            then stitching the resultant images? Once upon a time, there was a
            significant difference; has that diminished?

            Also, does the Mental Ray fisheye renderer support a greater than 180-
            degree field of view?

            Chez AMNH, we render separate images (seven, oddly enough, which
            match our projector footprints) and stitch them to create our dome
            masters. We also use a roughly 200-degree field of view because we
            have concentric seating in a horizontal dome. Just wondering how the
            other half lives... :)

            Thanks!


            Ryan, a.k.a.
            Ryan Wyatt, Science Visualizer
            Rose Center for Earth & Space
            American Museum of Natural History
            79th Street at Central Park West
            New York, NY 10024
          • Paul Mowbray
            Matt, I have posted on the dome3D forum some questions I have about the mental ray lens shader, didn t want to clog up the list as not everyone will be
            Message 5 of 16 , Mar 22, 2007
              Matt, I have posted on the dome3D forum some questions I have about the
              mental ray lens shader, didn't want to clog up the list as not everyone
              will be interested. http://dome3d.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=41

              The tutorials use the "Windows Media Video 9 Screen" codec. It is not a
              browser issue as it works fine in firefox on windows, it just invokes
              media player.

              Ryan, re the stitching vs raytraced camera debate I have to say that I
              would go with the latter 99% of the time. With the rendering power
              available today and the sophistication of the various rendering packages
              I'd say that in pretty much every area, workflow, quality and speed that
              multi camera renders and stitching are a thing of the past.

              An example of workflow could be as follows (where a D3 is the final
              destination):

              Create your animation in your 3D package

              Render out 1 set of images using a fisheye camera.

              Bring the image sequence into a video editing package, perform any
              effects or colour correction.

              Output as either a wmv or mpeg2.

              Copy the "1" file onto your D3

              Sit back and evaluate how good your work is and repeat over and over
              again till happy!

              This only works with low resolution renders (the one movie file for your
              D3 bit, the rest is scalable to any res) but provides a very efficient
              turnaround in the early stages of production for getting camera work and
              animation right. The amount of files on your system is minimal and you
              don't have the extra step of stitching the multi cam renders together.
              Quality is higher from my experience but I have not used every bit of
              stiching software available.

              From a pure simplicity point of view it is worth it in my opinion as the
              job is hard enough without making it even more complicated with n times
              more files and cameras to worry about and QC.

              Re the 200 degree FOV,

              As the renderers aim to recreate a physical camera model it is possible
              to change the FOV to whatever you need, I only have experience of
              working at 180 though, somebody else might be able to comment on over
              rendering?

              Would be good to hear other peoples opinions on how they get things out
              of there 3D package and onto the dome.

              There are many renderers that offer the one render solution but my
              personal fave is cebas finalRender for various reasons.


              Paul
            • Tom Casey
              ... There are other factors beyond render speed to consider here. The stitching route is a major processing road to follow, requires more hands-on time, and
              Message 6 of 16 , Mar 22, 2007
                On Mar 22, 2007, at 1:33 AM, Ryan Wyatt wrote:

                > Out of curiosity, how does the speed and efficiency of fisheye
                > renderers compare to rendering using, for example, a hemicube and
                > then stitching the resultant images? Once upon a time, there was a
                > significant difference; has that diminished?

                There are other factors beyond render speed to consider here. The
                stitching route is a major processing road to follow, requires more
                hands-on time, and adds additional storage/asset management. We gave
                it up a long time ago in favor of a raytrace (Maya) render direction
                at least for now. When it comes down to it, adding a few more CPU's
                to make up for the longer renders is a much more efficient path than
                any stitching route. The many things you cannot do when stitching,
                to avoid seams, is another reason to go with a single render.

                We are currently working on a variation of the MR camera shader for
                XSI (yes, we still are primarily a Maya studio)... needed for a
                project employing some capabilities that XSI software is currently
                more efficient at than Maya. The hope is to also have a real-time
                view of the fulldome image as well... something that has been a real
                frustration for my animators since day one. It will be implemented
                in XSI first because of the software's architecture, then in Maya.

                We are in production on the Buhl's premier fulldome show, creating
                about 10 minutes of scenes. It's a Mars show based on William
                Hartmann's "Travelers Guide to Mars. The scenes involve various
                visualizations of specific locations on Mars. We are using the NASA
                MOLA data to create meshes for the terrain. A motion capture stage is
                being used to create our traveling astronauts a each site. The XSI
                toolset is better at handling the large meshes and the motion capture
                data. Other scenes are being created in Maya.

                Tom


                ************************************************
                H o m e R u n P i c t u r e s

                Tom Casey
                President & Creative Director

                100 First Avenue - Suite 450
                Pittsburgh, PA 15222
                412-391-8200
                mailto:tom@...
                http://www.homerunpictures.com
              • Paul Mowbray
                ... Sounds v. tasty, any plans on releasing it or selling it when implemented? Maybe worth jumping from 3ds max for that kind of functionality. Paul Mowbray
                Message 7 of 16 , Mar 22, 2007
                  Tom Casey wrote:

                  > The hope is to also have a real-time view of the fulldome image as
                  > well... something that has been a real frustration for my animators
                  > since day one.

                  Sounds v. tasty, any plans on releasing it or selling it when
                  implemented? Maybe worth jumping from 3ds max for that kind of
                  functionality.

                  Paul Mowbray
                • Tom Kwasnitschka
                  We have been using Matthews Mental Ray fisheye shader in our latest show “Journey into Space” (on the history of spaceflight). The one drawback of MR is
                  Message 8 of 16 , Mar 22, 2007
                    We have been using Matthews Mental Ray fisheye shader in our latest show
                    “Journey into Space” (on the history of spaceflight). The one drawback
                    of MR is that it does not work together with a number of plugins for
                    3dsmax, especially Dreamscape and Afterburn, which ruled it out for
                    probably 80% of the production. Using plugins like dreamscape and
                    fisheye shaders, you can still run into flicker problems due to changing
                    seed numbers on multi machine setups. In that case, Final Render has a
                    feature to have all machines working on one image simultaneously. We
                    rendered most of the show at 220° FoV, flat setup, and it works great.
                    The idea is that we produce a tilted version out of the 4k material
                    during post production.

                    Best greetings!

                    Tom
                    --
                    Tom Kwasnitschka
                    research and development div.
                    kwasnitschka@...
                    cell +49 (172) 8546025
                    http://www.allsky.de
                  • Tom Casey
                    ... We ll have to see what it costs us to develop and then see what we can do... Tom ************************************************ H o m e R u n P i c t
                    Message 9 of 16 , Mar 22, 2007
                      On Mar 22, 2007, at 9:18 AM, Paul Mowbray wrote:

                      > > The hope is to also have a real-time view of the fulldome image as
                      > > well... something that has been a real frustration for my animators
                      > > since day one.

                      > Sounds v. tasty, any plans on releasing it or selling it when
                      > implemented? Maybe worth jumping from 3ds max for that kind of
                      > functionality.

                      We'll have to see what it costs us to develop and then see what we
                      can do...

                      Tom

                      ************************************************
                      H o m e R u n P i c t u r e s

                      Tom Casey
                      President & Creative Director

                      100 First Avenue - Suite 450
                      Pittsburgh, PA 15222
                      412-391-8200
                      mailto:tom@...
                      http://www.homerunpictures.com




                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • Matthew
                      Hi all, The MR fisheye for Max was created from Daniel Ott s Maya shader. You can visit his site here http://www.thedott.net/shaders/domeAFL/index.html We had
                      Message 10 of 16 , Mar 22, 2007
                        Hi all,

                        The MR fisheye for Max was created from Daniel Ott's Maya shader.
                        You can visit his site here
                        http://www.thedott.net/shaders/domeAFL/index.html

                        We had an older XSI shader built from his code floating around
                        somewhere, I'll try to dig it up. It was for an older version of XSI
                        so it may need to be updated. Daniel supplies all the source
                        materials, so if someone really needs the XSI shader, it could be
                        compiled easily, and I know for a fact that the Max/Maya/XSI render
                        all match up.

                        As for our Max version, I have not tested it on a 64 bit system. I'm
                        not sure if any changes would be necessary to have the shader run
                        under a 64 bit version of Max.

                        Ryan, as for the videos, I use camtasia studio to do screen grab
                        video, and you may need the techsmith codec to play it. It should
                        run under pretty much under any browser. If not, I can upload a
                        different version in Quicktime format.

                        As for tilt and rendering... At Adler we produce 180 degree fisheyes
                        at a 15 degree tilt. Due to limited time, render nodes, and budget,
                        we don't over render (though I'd like to). I haven't used a multi-
                        camera rig for a few years now. Ever since we started to use Vray
                        for Max, fisheye rendering is the only way to go (IMO).

                        Matthew
                      • Don Davis
                        ... I rendered what may have been the first multi camera derived fulldome animations in 1998, and I still find that method far faster than trying to render a
                        Message 11 of 16 , Mar 22, 2007
                          >Ryan, re the stitching vs raytraced camera debate I have to say that I
                          >would go with the latter 99% of the time. With the rendering power
                          >available today and the sophistication of the various rendering packages
                          >I'd say that in pretty much every area, workflow, quality and speed that
                          >multi camera renders and stitching are a thing of the past.

                          I rendered what may have been the first multi camera derived
                          fulldome animations in 1998, and I still find that method far faster
                          than trying to render a 4K fisheye view. This method is far from
                          extinct, at least in my workshop.

                          Don
                        • Hue Walker Bumgarner-Kirby
                          I tried to set up the fisheye shader in my system (windows xp, Maya 8.0) and I can t get it to render properly (I get a black frame)... with both the atom and
                          Message 12 of 16 , Mar 22, 2007
                            I tried to set up the fisheye shader in my system (windows xp, Maya
                            8.0) and I can't get it to render properly (I get a black frame)...
                            with both the atom and the ott versions...

                            so I'm assuming either it doesn't work with Maya 8 or (more likely) I
                            have misunderstood something in the directions for set up...

                            anybody here using either atom or ott fisheye with Maya 8, and willing
                            to help me troubleshoot?

                            --
                            Hue Walker Bumgarner-Kirby
                            Multi Media Development Specialist
                            ARTS Lab
                            University of New Mexico

                            http://huewalker.blogspot.com/
                          • maldred1234
                            FinalRender, fisheye 180-200. If it was a dream of going back to 5 cameras and stitching, I d wake up in a cold sweat. It was ok for 1k and useable for 2k. But
                            Message 13 of 16 , Mar 22, 2007
                              FinalRender, fisheye 180-200. If it was a dream of going back to 5
                              cameras and stitching, I'd wake up in a cold sweat. It was ok for 1k
                              and useable for 2k. But 4k would add so much time to the process I
                              fear to think. With the 5 camera setup it was useful to have an extra
                              45 degree tilt to play with. Then again, if you know what you want or
                              you don't plan to adjust tilt for every dome, that extra rendering
                              time is very wasteful.

                              Mark
                            • Tom Casey
                              ... One little trick for all you out there rendering separate cameras and stitching is (assuming you do not want the bottom half of the lower cameras for tilt
                              Message 14 of 16 , Mar 23, 2007
                                On Mar 23, 2007, at 1:36 AM, maldred1234 wrote:

                                > FinalRender, fisheye 180-200. If it was a dream of going back to 5
                                > cameras and stitching, I'd wake up in a cold sweat. It was ok for 1k
                                > and useable for 2k. But 4k would add so much time to the process I
                                > fear to think. With the 5 camera setup it was useful to have an extra
                                > 45 degree tilt to play with. Then again, if you know what you want or
                                > you don't plan to adjust tilt for every dome, that extra rendering
                                > time is very wasteful.

                                One little trick for all you out there rendering separate cameras and
                                stitching is (assuming you do not want the bottom half of the lower
                                cameras for tilt options) is to place a black plane near the cameras
                                blocking out the lower half of the scene. Depending on what software
                                you're using, applying a "simple" shader to that surface (one that
                                has no shading qualities and renders quick) will save a lot of render
                                time.

                                Tom

                                ************************************************
                                H o m e R u n P i c t u r e s

                                Tom Casey
                                President & Creative Director

                                100 First Avenue - Suite 450
                                Pittsburgh, PA 15222
                                412-391-8200
                                mailto:tom@...
                                http://www.homerunpictures.com
                              • gregoryallandowning
                                I am having the same problem w/ maya 8 and xp-64. I am thinking this may be a Maya version issue. I had the same problem using
                                Message 15 of 16 , Mar 23, 2007
                                  I am having the same problem w/ maya 8 and xp-64. I am thinking this
                                  may be a Maya version issue. I had the same problem using
                                  http://www.lightengine3d.com/index2.html MR fisheye lens shader. I am
                                  not familiar w/ atom, is this another fisheye lens shader?

                                  Hue Walker Bumgarner-Kirby wrote:

                                  > I tried to set up the fisheye shader in my system (windows xp, Maya
                                  > 8.0) and I can't get it to render properly (I get a black frame)...
                                  > with both the atom and the ott versions...
                                • Hue Walker Bumgarner-Kirby
                                  sorry... missed this one... I was referring to atomlabs www.atomlabs.org/asdn pretty much the same thing as D.Ott s lenses... and I can t make them work with
                                  Message 16 of 16 , Apr 2, 2007
                                    sorry... missed this one...

                                    I was referring to atomlabs

                                    www.atomlabs.org/asdn

                                    pretty much the same thing as D.Ott's lenses...

                                    and I can't make them work with Maya 8.0 either....

                                    --
                                    Hue Walker Bumgarner-Kirby
                                    Multi Media Development Specialist
                                    ARTS Lab
                                    University of New Mexico

                                    http://huewalker.blogspot.com/
                                  Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.