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Re: On Fungus

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  • gate44o
    First off, I have been using simple compost teas and they have clearly worked well but smell terrible. Thus I will phase out of using them as it appears the
    Message 1 of 17 , Sep 2, 2002
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      First off, I have been using simple compost teas and they have clearly
      worked well but smell terrible. Thus I will phase out of using them as
      it appears the smell is meant to be in the ground and not in the air,
      according to my nose.

      However, I imagine that sophisticated techniques can be used to
      minimize the smell problem from decomposition.

      Regardless, such methods are not quite as simple as Fukuoka managed to
      move towards and if you have time, you can content yourself with
      watching the effects of the fungus over time and learn what it is
      telling you. Plant a different type of vegetable. Harvest and replant
      seed from the plants that did the best against the fungus.

      I have seen that fungus thrives in wet unweeded areas beneath food
      plants and moves onto the food plants when it gets its chance.

      Further I have noticed that a small amount of weeding underneath
      severely effected crops can arrest the fungus especially given sunny
      days. It is difficult to stop fungus spread during rainy periods
      though keeping the crops as airy and exposed to sunlight all the way
      down to the stem will definitely help.

      What crops are the most affected in your climate?

      Leland

      --- In fukuoka_farming@y..., Robin "Fernández-Medina"
      <flyingdebris1@y...> wrote:
      >
      > Hello everyone,
      >
      > It was nice to read you last email Don Graves. I find Mychorizea a
      fascinating subject. I had the opportunity to Study with Paul Stamets
      in Washington State a few years ago. I learnt a tremendous amount on
      the importance of Fungus in the Ecosystem. In fact, so much so, that I
      got the impression that no fungus, no ecosystem. The beautiful
      chanterrelle and Bollete are two examples of Mychorizea that are
      enough to get you interested in the whole subject.
      > Now that I am on the subject, I find that in the Natural farming
      method, and doing my best to follow the "do nothing approach", the
      prescence of fungus takes a leading role in plant deaths. I always
      have been one to think of leaving all the insects do their thing and
      if they wasnt to eat my vegetables to do so until something or other
      brings them into balance...as well as interplanting other plants and
      such to control the spread. However, fungus is my biggest "pest" ( to
      use that word) in my Natural farming approach. I see it just decimate
      so many of my plants and trees even though, most of the time it doesnt
      kill its hosts. Fungus are very prolific, and some strains seem to be
      able to leap from one plant to the other without a care of type or
      size. Is there a way at minimizing their impact on my vegetable patches?
      >
      > Regards,
      >
      > Robin
      > Malaga, Spain
      >
      >
      >
      > ---------------------------------
      > Do You Yahoo!?
      > Yahoo! Finance - Get real-time stock quotes
      >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • jamie
      Hello Robin, I can only imagine your problem is literally growing out of a previous imbalance that has not yet righted itself. What was the land you re growing
      Message 2 of 17 , Sep 2, 2002
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        Hello Robin,
        I can only imagine your problem is literally growing out
        of a previous imbalance that has not yet righted itself. What was the land
        you're growing your vegetables on used for previously?
        I've been using a deep mulch for my veg this year instead of watering
        with no fungal problems (I'm just over the border in France from Barcelona).
        I cleared much brushwood last winter and have used this as part of my mulch.
        I noted when spreading it early this year that although we'd had no
        appreciable rainfall over the winter there was still white rot
        (basidiomycetes) invading the twigs and leaves. It might be such an approach
        this autumn/winter might help you by introducing a competing fungus for that
        which is causing your problem - another form of innoculation of the soil,
        but if you have the brushwood it might help.

        Jamie
        Souscayrous

        ----- Original Message -----
        From: Robin Fernández-Medina <flyingdebris1@...>
        To: <fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com>
        Sent: Monday, September 02, 2002 10:56 AM
        Subject: [fukuoka_farming] On Fungus


        >
        > Hello everyone,
        >
        > It was nice to read you last email Don Graves. I find Mychorizea a
        fascinating subject. I had the opportunity to Study with Paul Stamets in
        Washington State a few years ago. I learnt a tremendous amount on the
        importance of Fungus in the Ecosystem. In fact, so much so, that I got the
        impression that no fungus, no ecosystem. The beautiful chanterrelle and
        Bollete are two examples of Mychorizea that are enough to get you interested
        in the whole subject.
        > Now that I am on the subject, I find that in the Natural farming method,
        and doing my best to follow the "do nothing approach", the prescence of
        fungus takes a leading role in plant deaths. I always have been one to think
        of leaving all the insects do their thing and if they wasnt to eat my
        vegetables to do so until something or other brings them into balance...as
        well as interplanting other plants and such to control the spread. However,
        fungus is my biggest "pest" ( to use that word) in my Natural farming
        approach. I see it just decimate so many of my plants and trees even though,
        most of the time it doesnt kill its hosts. Fungus are very prolific, and
        some strains seem to be able to leap from one plant to the other without a
        care of type or size. Is there a way at minimizing their impact on my
        vegetable patches?
        >
        > Regards,
        >
        > Robin
        > Malaga, Spain
        >
        >
        >
        > ---------------------------------
        > Do You Yahoo!?
        > Yahoo! Finance - Get real-time stock quotes
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
        >
        >
        > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
        > fukuoka_farming-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
        >
        >
        >
        > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
        >
        >
      • Allan Balliett
        Robin, Leland, et al - I m a biological farmer in northern virginia, usa. I ve established 3 major gardens and am currently serving as head gardener for a 167
        Message 3 of 17 , Sep 2, 2002
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          Robin, Leland, et al -

          I'm a biological farmer in northern virginia, usa. I've established 3
          major gardens and am currently serving as head gardener for a 167
          member biodynamic CSA. I'm only saying this to point out that I spend
          a lot of time with crop plants and have been doing so for years.

          This season we have a drought. Fungus attacks were horrible, just the
          same. Fungus does thrive where there is a lack of circulation, but
          fungus does not need damp, moist, soil conditions to attack fruit or
          leaves.

          It's really important for growers who hope to address hunger issues
          to be aware of the toll that undiagnosed fungus takes on the energy
          and ultimate productivity of their crop plants. Until you garden is
          totally balanced and your fertility levels balanced and high, fungus
          can be a problem (depending on crop, variety and location.) It is
          important to have a program of fungus control in place before you
          even notice the fungus.

          In biodynamics we use a tea made of horse tail to 'prevent' fungal outbreaks.

          I'm not saying this to push biodynamics. I'm saying this because
          there are tools in each of the essence gardening schools that can be
          used to advantage by all the essence gardening schools. Horse Tail
          tea is one of those useful tools.

          Check out Howard Shapiro's GARDENING for the FUTURE of the EARTH
          book. Howard was an actual student of Fukuoka. He wrote this book to
          show how 'specialization,' e.g. following Steiner, Mollison or
          Fukuoka to rigidly can delay attaining our true aims. In my case,
          that would be growing the most highly nutritious food possible for as
          many people as possible for as little money as possible.

          -Allan


          >I have seen that fungus thrives in wet unweeded areas beneath food
          >plants and moves onto the food plants when it gets its chance.
          >
          >Further I have noticed that a small amount of weeding underneath
          >severely effected crops can arrest the fungus especially given sunny
          >days. It is difficult to stop fungus spread during rainy periods
          >though keeping the crops as airy and exposed to sunlight all the way
          >down to the stem will definitely help.
          >
          >What crops are the most affected in your climate?
          >
          >Leland
        • Allan Balliett
          ... Bad smells from compost or compost teas are first warning signs that something is wrong with the compost or the tea. You want a nice earthy smell, like
          Message 4 of 17 , Sep 2, 2002
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            >
            >First off, I have been using simple compost teas and they have clearly
            >worked well but smell terrible. Thus I will phase out of using them as
            >it appears the smell is meant to be in the ground and not in the air,
            >according to my nose.

            Bad smells from compost or compost teas are first warning signs that
            something is wrong with the compost or the tea. You want a nice
            earthy smell, like leaf mulch in a healthy woods.

            NEVER NEVER NEVER apply bad smelling compost tea to crops!!

            Manure and herb teas are a different story. Some of the bad smells
            indicate that the nitrogen is freed up and they are excellent at that
            point to apply, diluted, to root zones.
          • Don Graves
            Hi Allan ... I am hopefully meeting Dr Elaine Ingham in Blenheim New Zealand ... this Thurdsay Aug 5th In my relatively short experience with mycorrhiza
            Message 5 of 17 , Sep 3, 2002
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              Hi Allan ...
              I am hopefully meeting Dr Elaine Ingham in Blenheim New Zealand ... this
              Thurdsay Aug 5th

              In my relatively short experience with mycorrhiza research & organic
              research, my observation
              is that both are mostly about (PROCESSes) = (understanding & maintaining
              soils & mycorrhizas)

              Mycorrhizas & Organics research attract very poor levels of scientific or
              technology research funding ...
              providing few REMEDIAL MYCORRHIZA ( PRODUCTS )
              aeroponic AM fungal spores
              seed-balls
              soil attached to fresh weed or crop roots from biologically diverse soils
              eg. under pasture / lawn (undisturbed)

              for use mainly in degraded & nutrient-'poor' soils

              ie. research without 'product development'
              = R without D
              R&D are almost bound togther
              more is the pity for the sake of planet Earth - (Gaea)

              there are very few mychorrhiza inoculation technologies
              & thus few 'development' opportunities for 'middle'-people to manufacture &
              sell nutrient & crop-protection products to so-called 'producers' or growers

              he she we ge can sense what was inherited free
              GAEA's soil is alive, Earth lives!


              we can manaaki (take care of) our whenua (land)
              treat vegetation like a korowai (cloak)
              or a living green skin
              mulch & (suitable) plants protect against bare soil surfaces ... thus
              reduce soil exposure to drying, & minimise wind & water erosion
              however, ... compared to bare soil surfaces, shaded soil surfaces under
              mulches / plants are slower to heat up at the beginning of Spring
              here & now in Nelson, southern-hemisphere South-Pacific Aotearoa (New
              Zealand) the Magnolia trees are in full spring bloom ... & life is truly
              great..

              There is more to wonder about
              than we can ever learn,
              ... awesome eh!



              appolls for any philosophy & poetry
              try my mycological (fungal) regards
              Don





              ----- Original Message -----
              From: "Allan Balliett" <igg@...>
              To: <fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com>
              Sent: Monday, September 02, 2002 11:53 PM
              Subject: Re: [fukuoka_farming] On Fungus


              > Robin -
              >
              > Check out Elaine Ingham's Soil Foodweb work. I think its at
              http://www.sfi.com
              >
              >
              > Elain is the academic who has been studying the making and applying
              > of hi-diversity compost teas to cultivated plants and garden soils.
              >
              > What she's doing, basically, is taking the highest quality compost
              > and perculating it to remove the micro life from the physical matter.
              > The water she does this in is high in appropriate nutrients, so, in
              > this highly oxigenated media, they breed like crazy. the resulting
              > brew is either sprayed on plants to control the colonization of
              > harmful fungi (by applying beneficial fungi - and good compost is
              > predominately beneficial organisms - which out-colonize the bad ones)
              > or by pouring it on the soil, trying to re-create the lush diversity
              > the soil that plants evolved in actually had.
              >
              > It's a great subject. It's more work, but it's very natural.
              >
              > For those on the East Coast - Elaine (and many others) will be
              > speaking at my biodynamic conference on Oct 4-6 outside of
              > Washington, DC http://www.gardneingforthefuture.com
              >
              > Ask me if you want to know more
              >
              > -Allan
              >
              >
              > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
              > fukuoka_farming-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
              >
              >
              >
              > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
              >
              >
              >
              >
            • RobinFernández-Medina
              Thanks to all those responses on the issue of Fungus. I agree with Jamie and others on the result of an imbalanced ecosystem being conducive to fungal
              Message 6 of 17 , Sep 4, 2002
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                Thanks to all those responses on the issue of Fungus. I agree with Jamie and others on the result of an imbalanced ecosystem being conducive to fungal outbreaks. The land I am currently mulching and cultivating on was and is on what has always been an olive tree orchard and almond trees. Both dry tolerant. I know the old owner was using foliar sprays and this must have impacted the surroundings in ways I can only dread. Since we purchased the land two years ago we have done nothing in the line of fertilizing or clearing or anything out of choice to see what direction things took. The prescence of certain weeds indicated patches of poor soil, and the sun burn, drought, salting and mineral deficiency look was apparent. Last year we started laying cardboard and manures down on the areas we were preparing to grow veggies in the future (which turned out to be this summer). The aphids were all over in the beginnig and they thinned out to manageable levels alone, but it took a long time to see ladybugs so I am not sure what happened there. The plants showed deficiencies and the latest (which was my comment on fungus) was the spread of leaf rot and just plants dying and noticing that the fungus were clearly invading. I try to limit my watering hours and always in summer wet the soil and not the leaves. I am thinking that perhaps the close by piles of fresh grass clippings has been the focal point of this invasion. Not sure but a hunch. Its the first time I have seen dill get decimated in this fashion.
                We have a very dry climate here during our summer months. Borderline drought and drought prone areas.
                Either way, I really am just standing by and watcing how all these processes unfold during these years as the land continues to go untouched.
                Here on the grape vines we use a blue dust that suppreses rot on the grapes. I dont know what its called but the farmers tell me that it is innofensive. Is this so? Can I apply it to the area under fungal attacks as a solution?
                I would be intereseted to hear of your comments.
                Regards,
                Robin
                jamie wrote:Hello Robin,
                I can only imagine your problem is literally growing out
                of a previous imbalance that has not yet righted itself. What was the land
                you're growing your vegetables on used for previously?
                I've been using a deep mulch for my veg this year instead of watering
                with no fungal problems (I'm just over the border in France from Barcelona).
                I cleared much brushwood last winter and have used this as part of my mulch.
                I noted when spreading it early this year that although we'd had no
                appreciable rainfall over the winter there was still white rot
                (basidiomycetes) invading the twigs and leaves. It might be such an approach
                this autumn/winter might help you by introducing a competing fungus for that
                which is causing your problem - another form of innoculation of the soil,
                but if you have the brushwood it might help.

                Jamie
                Souscayrous

                ----- Original Message -----
                From: Robin Fern�ndez-Medina <flyingdebris1@...>
                To: <fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com>
                Sent: Monday, September 02, 2002 10:56 AM
                Subject: [fukuoka_farming] On Fungus


                >
                > Hello everyone,
                >
                > It was nice to read you last email Don Graves. I find Mychorizea a
                fascinating subject. I had the opportunity to Study with Paul Stamets in
                Washington State a few years ago. I learnt a tremendous amount on the
                importance of Fungus in the Ecosystem. In fact, so much so, that I got the
                impression that no fungus, no ecosystem. The beautiful chanterrelle and
                Bollete are two examples of Mychorizea that are enough to get you interested
                in the whole subject.
                > Now that I am on the subject, I find that in the Natural farming method,
                and doing my best to follow the "do nothing approach", the prescence of
                fungus takes a leading role in plant deaths. I always have been one to think
                of leaving all the insects do their thing and if they wasnt to eat my
                vegetables to do so until something or other brings them into balance...as
                well as interplanting other plants and such to control the spread. However,
                fungus is my biggest "pest" ( to use that word) in my Natural farming
                approach. I see it just decimate so many of my plants and trees even though,
                most of the time it doesnt kill its hosts. Fungus are very prolific, and
                some strains seem to be able to leap from one plant to the other without a
                care of type or size. Is there a way at minimizing their impact on my
                vegetable patches?
                >
                > Regards,
                >
                > Robin
                > Malaga, Spain
                >
                >
                >
                > ---------------------------------
                > Do You Yahoo!?
                > Yahoo! Finance - Get real-time stock quotes
                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >
                >
                >
                > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                > fukuoka_farming-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                >
                >
                >
                > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                >
                >


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              • Chris Sawyer
                If you want to clean up the spores, try using a product called Zerotol. It is OMRI approved for certified organic operations. It works by oxidizing the spores
                Message 7 of 17 , Sep 4, 2002
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                  If you want to clean up the spores, try using a product called Zerotol. It is OMRI approved for certified organic operations. It works by oxidizing the spores and can even be used as a soil drench.
                  Chris Sawyer
                  www.jakesfarm.com
                • jamie
                  Hello again Robin, I find it useful to consider fungal problems as indicating a general problem in the health of my plants, the fungus just doing what it is
                  Message 8 of 17 , Sep 4, 2002
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                    Hello again Robin, I find it useful to consider fungal problems as
                    indicating a general problem in the health of my plants, the fungus just
                    doing what it is supposed to do, decompose dying or unhealthy plants. To put
                    it more simply it's not the fungus that is the problem. But then I think you
                    probably know this already. But thinking like this will help you avoid
                    spraying your veg with the copper sulphate that I'm sure is what your local
                    viticulters are spraying on their crops. It does indeed work well against
                    certain fungal and bacterial attacks such as mildew, however, copper enters
                    the soil and then remains there, as the concentration increases through
                    respraying it reaches a level of toxicity toward earthworms. Here is some
                    more information on copper compounds and their effects on plants (sorry I
                    don't have the www address);

                    >copper compounds. Copper is a foliar fungicide with protective action.
                    Copper compounds can be highly toxic to many fruit crops and must be used
                    with extreme care. Copper >sulfate is soluble in water. This high degree of
                    solubility is the fundamental cause of toxicity problems, which copper
                    sulfate can cause to all fruit crops. Fixed coppers have been >developed
                    that are relatively insoluble and therefore less toxic to plants. However,
                    fixed coppers can also result in phytotoxicity under certain conditions. The
                    fungicidal activity of >copper is based on its ability to destroy proteins
                    in plants. This is true for all plants, fungi, and fruit plants. When lime
                    is combined with copper compounds, it reacts with the copper
                    >making it more stable. Thus, copper compounds in the presence of lime would
                    generally produce lower, more uniform concentrations of free copper, which
                    in turn would be less apt >to injure plant tissues than if no lime were
                    used. Because copper has the ability to kill all types of plant tissue, the
                    use of copper fungicides carries with it the risk of causing injury to
                    >fruit plants. Ideally, copper on the leaf or fruit surface should be high
                    enough to kill the fungus or bacteria but low enough not to cause injury to
                    the plant. Factors that can promote >injury include: failure to use enough
                    lime; cold, wet weather conditions that apparently increase copper's
                    solubility, allowing more into the plant and resulting in toxicity; and
                    >application of excessive rates of copper. Even when no injury is evident on
                    the plant, subtle effects of the copper on the plant may be occurring. In
                    addition, to reduce growth and >yields, it has been shown that the use of
                    copper fungicides can reduce the maturity of the fruit as well as that of
                    the shoots. Copper fungicides can have subtle, chronic negative >impacts on
                    fruit plants. Copper provides low to moderate control of many fungal and
                    bacterial diseases. Fixed coppers, plus lime, are safer than Bordeaux. They
                    may be used for >leaf curl control on stone fruits and pre- and postharvest
                    leaf spot control on tart cherries. Copper compounds should not be applied
                    in a postharvest spray without adding lime. If >copper is applied without
                    lime, orchards will show toxicity symptoms such as chlorosis (yellowing),
                    leaf drop on tart cherries, and necrosis (browning) on sweet cherries. If a
                    >copper material is applied without lime and yellowing and leaf drop occur,
                    an application of lime within 2 to 3 weeks after the copper application may
                    prevent further yellowing and >leaf drop.


                    I've used cardboard also this year to inhibit the growth of plants in an
                    area I'm now preparing for winter veg. It has certainly worked well,
                    allowing minimal 'weeding' before I seed the surface with things like
                    spinach, chicory, lettuce etc. I declined the offer of manure earlier this
                    year after it being suggested by Emilia that the best way to improve the
                    fertility of the soil and keep it in balance was by simply using plants,
                    just as happens in nature. I'd think you might very well be able to plant
                    much of your land this winter with a cover crop that you could scythe and
                    leave as a green mulch on the surface when you plant your veg next spring or
                    even interplant amongst a cover crop such as white clover. You might want to
                    look at http://www.sare.org/handbook/mccp2/index.htm for a cover crop that
                    will suit your climate which, I suspect, is very similar to Southern
                    California in this cover crop database (I've just remembered this one also,
                    should just be what your looking for as it's aimed specifically at
                    California http://www.sarep.ucdavis.edu/cgi-bin/ccrop.exe). Have a look at
                    that earlier discussion on this list (from message 330 the thread is called
                    to souscayrous, emilia and all and then Soil Amendments).

                    You seem to be taking a patient approach to your land so rather than go in
                    spraying, see if you can't ameliorate the worst of your conditions by simply
                    following nature's lead by rebuilding the natural fertility of your soil
                    through plants. I'm about to build some raised beds for next years crops and
                    I intend planting the beds this winter with cover crops to stop erosion,
                    keep the soil loose, feed the soil microorganisms and build up plant
                    available nutrients. Why not order Emilia's video (which I'm sure she has in
                    Spanish and I know she has in English) and we can compare notes on progress
                    and keep in contact with Emilia via this group to keep us on the right path.
                    Whilst the beds take a little work to build and there is some weeding
                    through the first couple of season's, once the beds are established you will
                    have the soil in as natural and 'wild' a state as is possible and thus a
                    healthy soil that produces nutritious crops that come to resist pests and
                    diseases.

                    Jamie
                    Souscayrous



                    ----- Original Message -----
                    From: Robin Fernández-Medina <flyingdebris1@...>
                    To: <fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com>
                    Sent: Wednesday, September 04, 2002 11:10 AM
                    Subject: Re: [fukuoka_farming] On Fungus



                    Thanks to all those responses on the issue of Fungus. I agree with Jamie and
                    others on the result of an imbalanced ecosystem being conducive to fungal
                    outbreaks. The land I am currently mulching and cultivating on was and is on
                    what has always been an olive tree orchard and almond trees. Both dry
                    tolerant. I know the old owner was using foliar sprays and this must have
                    impacted the surroundings in ways I can only dread. Since we purchased the
                    land two years ago we have done nothing in the line of fertilizing or
                    clearing or anything out of choice to see what direction things took. The
                    prescence of certain weeds indicated patches of poor soil, and the sun burn,
                    drought, salting and mineral deficiency look was apparent. Last year we
                    started laying cardboard and manures down on the areas we were preparing to
                    grow veggies in the future (which turned out to be this summer). The aphids
                    were all over in the beginnig and they thinned out to manageable levels
                    alone, but it took a long time to see ladybugs so I am not sure what
                    happened there. The plants showed deficiencies and the latest (which was my
                    comment on fungus) was the spread of leaf rot and just plants dying and
                    noticing that the fungus were clearly invading. I try to limit my watering
                    hours and always in summer wet the soil and not the leaves. I am thinking
                    that perhaps the close by piles of fresh grass clippings has been the focal
                    point of this invasion. Not sure but a hunch. Its the first time I have seen
                    dill get decimated in this fashion.
                    We have a very dry climate here during our summer months. Borderline drought
                    and drought prone areas.
                    Either way, I really am just standing by and watcing how all these processes
                    unfold during these years as the land continues to go untouched.
                    Here on the grape vines we use a blue dust that suppreses rot on the grapes.
                    I dont know what its called but the farmers tell me that it is innofensive.
                    Is this so? Can I apply it to the area under fungal attacks as a solution?
                    I would be intereseted to hear of your comments.
                    Regards,
                    Robin
                  • RobinFernández-Medina
                    Hello Jamie, Your email and information are sincerely appreciated. As a student of all these applications, I listen. Thanks for taking the time to elucidate
                    Message 9 of 17 , Sep 5, 2002
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                      Hello Jamie,
                      Your email and information are sincerely appreciated. As a student of all these applications, I listen. Thanks for taking the time to elucidate Copper sulphates true colors. As of yet I have not used anything like that. I am really disposed to just say if its going to die, let it die. I like the idea given on this topic to just use the seed of those plants that best handled the fungus onslaught for the next season. I am a real believer in erradicating all pesticides and biocides from agriculture and the world. It makes me quite paranoid as I am sure others. I do my best to spread that word to anyone that listens and of course apply it "in situ" to our way of life. If its going to die, let it die. If you are not going to eat as a result things get more tricky, but eating copper sulphate sounds a little harsh too.
                      Last week I visited an area in the North Mountains of Malaga that is a major producer of raisins. To my surprise these vines spread over all these moutains, up and down ravines, and not a drop of water. The temperature was close to 34� and the solar radiation was impressive. Anyhow what I am getting at is it was all "left alone" as its been done for centuries and every year they get great yields. No sprays or other. Quite a learning trip.
                      Where can I learn of Emilias video etc.? I read some of her work and learned. I also appreciate the relief on our backs!
                      Thanks again for all the input as to all others who contributed to the Fungus conversations. Its a learning curve.
                      Robin



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                    • jamie
                      Hello Robin, living in the heartland of the vine and seeing the amount sprayed on the vines here (vinifera not raisin) I find it hard to believe that grapes
                      Message 10 of 17 , Sep 5, 2002
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                        Hello Robin, living in the heartland of the vine and seeing the amount
                        sprayed on the vines here (vinifera not raisin) I find it hard to believe
                        that grapes can be grown without any spraying at all (and also immensely
                        gladdened). The sun and the aridity I can understand, vines are impressive
                        in their ability to withstand poor conditions, how else could they still
                        grow in the practically dead earth around here.


                        The Synergistic Garden Video Tape By Emilia Hazelip
                        Las Encantadas, BP 217, F-11306 Limoux-Cedex, France
                        Tel/Fax 33+46-83-15-111
                        emhaz@...

                        Whilst the initial digging of the raised beds would not appear to initially
                        favour Natural Farming practices, the actual effect of the raised beds is to
                        ensure the fertility of the soil and then maintain it in a wild state. You
                        can see photos of her raised beds and veg on Jim Bones' Seedballs site
                        (http://www.seedballs.com/hazelip.html) and a useful cropping plan for the
                        raised beds over their first three seasons (though being near Malaga you'll
                        need to develop the plan to your semi-tropical climate from its temperate
                        perspective).


                        Jamie
                        Souscayrous


                        ----- Original Message -----
                        From: Robin Fernández-Medina <flyingdebris1@...>
                        To: <fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com>
                        Sent: Thursday, September 05, 2002 12:15 PM
                        Subject: Re: [fukuoka_farming] On Fungus




                        Hello Jamie,
                        Your email and information are sincerely appreciated. As a student of all
                        these applications, I listen. Thanks for taking the time to elucidate Copper
                        sulphates true colors. As of yet I have not used anything like that. I am
                        really disposed to just say if its going to die, let it die. I like the idea
                        given on this topic to just use the seed of those plants that best handled
                        the fungus onslaught for the next season. I am a real believer in
                        erradicating all pesticides and biocides from agriculture and the world. It
                        makes me quite paranoid as I am sure others. I do my best to spread that
                        word to anyone that listens and of course apply it "in situ" to our way of
                        life. If its going to die, let it die. If you are not going to eat as a
                        result things get more tricky, but eating copper sulphate sounds a little
                        harsh too.
                        Last week I visited an area in the North Mountains of Malaga that is a major
                        producer of raisins. To my surprise these vines spread over all these
                        moutains, up and down ravines, and not a drop of water. The temperature was
                        close to 34º and the solar radiation was impressive. Anyhow what I am
                        getting at is it was all "left alone" as its been done for centuries and
                        every year they get great yields. No sprays or other. Quite a learning trip.
                        Where can I learn of Emilias video etc.? I read some of her work and
                        learned. I also appreciate the relief on our backs!
                        Thanks again for all the input as to all others who contributed to the
                        Fungus conversations. Its a learning curve.
                        Robin



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