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Kansas legume type tree

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  • Sara Mandal-Joy
    Wondering if anyone can point me in the direction of a good legume type tree for Kansas, zone 6. Honey mesquite grows farther over to the west of us in the
    Message 1 of 12 , Feb 21, 2009
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      Wondering if anyone can point me in the direction of a good legume type
      tree for Kansas, zone 6. Honey
      mesquite grows farther over to the west of us in the southern part of
      the state, but here in the SE we're
      too wet. They would come up but not thrive, like it dry. We have a
      very heavy clay type soil. The only other legume type tree, nitrogen
      fixing, that I've found that seems to tolerate this climate is the black
      locust. My hesitation with that one is that folks consider it invasive,
      and my neighbors would not be
      happy with me. Birds eat the pods and carry them around. I wouldn't
      mind the growth up from sideroots.
      Would be cutting it down while fairly young, using both for firewood and
      for mulch. Would prefer
      something without thorns, but we could handle that. My neighbors have
      a hard time with my "weed"
      fields, the way they see them. But hoping I can find a nitrogen fixing
      tree without the bad rep for being
      invasive. Any ideas? Thanks, Sara
    • grannis04
      -- To Sara, We have alder trees here that grow where it s wet and they do fix nitrogen. They may do well where you are. Here they grow near wetlands and rivers
      Message 2 of 12 , Feb 21, 2009
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        --
        To Sara,
        We have alder trees here that grow where it's wet and they do
        fix nitrogen. They may do well where you are. Here they grow near
        wetlands and rivers and they like to grow together in patches. They
        are a member of the birch family. Do not confuse with elder.
        Good Luck, Steve G.





        - In fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com, Sara Mandal-Joy <smjlist@...> wrote:
        >
        > Wondering if anyone can point me in the direction of a good legume type
        > tree for Kansas, zone 6. Honey
        > mesquite grows farther over to the west of us in the southern part of
        > the state, but here in the SE we're
        > too wet. They would come up but not thrive, like it dry. We have a
        > very heavy clay type soil. The only other legume type tree, nitrogen
        > fixing, that I've found that seems to tolerate this climate is the black
        > locust. My hesitation with that one is that folks consider it invasive,
        > and my neighbors would not be
        > happy with me. Birds eat the pods and carry them around. I wouldn't
        > mind the growth up from sideroots.
        > Would be cutting it down while fairly young, using both for firewood and
        > for mulch. Would prefer
        > something without thorns, but we could handle that. My neighbors have
        > a hard time with my "weed"
        > fields, the way they see them. But hoping I can find a nitrogen fixing
        > tree without the bad rep for being
        > invasive. Any ideas? Thanks, Sara
        >
      • jhereg9333
        Have you thought about a Kentucky Coffee Tree (Gymnocladus dioicus)? According to my info, Kansas is on the western-most part of the range, but still a native.
        Message 3 of 12 , Feb 26, 2009
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          Have you thought about a Kentucky Coffee Tree (Gymnocladus dioicus)?

          According to my info, Kansas is on the western-most part of the
          range, but still a native.

          Jeremy

          --- In fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com, Sara Mandal-Joy <smjlist@...>
          wrote:
          >
          > Wondering if anyone can point me in the direction of a good legume
          type
          > tree for Kansas, zone 6. Honey
          > mesquite grows farther over to the west of us in the southern part
          of
          > the state, but here in the SE we're
          > too wet. They would come up but not thrive, like it dry. We have a
          > very heavy clay type soil. The only other legume type tree,
          nitrogen
          > fixing, that I've found that seems to tolerate this climate is the
          black
          > locust. My hesitation with that one is that folks consider it
          invasive,
          > and my neighbors would not be
          > happy with me. Birds eat the pods and carry them around. I
          wouldn't
          > mind the growth up from sideroots.
          > Would be cutting it down while fairly young, using both for
          firewood and
          > for mulch. Would prefer
          > something without thorns, but we could handle that. My neighbors
          have
          > a hard time with my "weed"
          > fields, the way they see them. But hoping I can find a nitrogen
          fixing
          > tree without the bad rep for being
          > invasive. Any ideas? Thanks, Sara
          >
        • Jeff
          Honey Locust is also a consideration, and you can eat teh young seed pods.... not as invasive as the Black locust And if I remember right, there is the shrub
          Message 4 of 12 , Feb 26, 2009
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            Honey Locust is also a consideration, and you can eat teh young seed
            pods.... not as invasive as the Black locust

            And if I remember right, there is the shrub Caragana (ie siberian pea
            shrub/tree) will also work....

            Other considerations are
            Silver buffalo berry... (naitive to the midwest prarie) although not a
            legume does have actorhizal assocations that allows it to fix nitrogen...

            likewise on the russian olive, autumn olive, gourmi genus (Eleganus)
            but they are highly invasive

            Even smaller than shrubs... the perrenail legumes.....

            Cassia matriculata (sp)
            Desmanthus illinois Illinois bundle flower
            Amorpha spp. Leadplant and False Indigo

            of these the Illinois bundle flower does produce edible seeds (lentil
            size)... Amorpha and Cassia are good for wild birds


            -
            >
            > Have you thought about a Kentucky Coffee Tree (Gymnocladus dioicus)?
            >
            > According to my info, Kansas is on the western-most part of the
            > range, but still a native.
            >
            > Jeremy
            >
          • Sara Mandal-Joy
            Thanks for the many good ideas. I m learning so much about trees - and bushes - and, well, life :-) . Sara
            Message 5 of 12 , Feb 27, 2009
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              Thanks for the many good ideas. I'm learning so much about trees - and
              bushes - and, well, life :-) .
              Sara
            • mcavincheyfrank
              ... and ... I am wondering whether anyone knows of any trees that produce tasty, nutritious leaves? I find it odd that I ve never heard of ANY trees that are
              Message 6 of 12 , Feb 27, 2009
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                --- In fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com, Sara Mandal-Joy <smjlist@...>
                wrote:
                >
                > Thanks for the many good ideas. I'm learning so much about trees -
                and
                > bushes - and, well, life :-) .
                > Sara
                >
                I am wondering whether anyone knows of any trees that produce tasty, nutritious leaves? I find it odd that I've never heard of ANY trees
                that are used for the production of leaves for food. Seems like there
                must be something out there that could be at least developed into a
                good leaf crop.

                Frank
              • The Dark Damsel
                There are many used for spice, (curry tree, kaffir lime, bay), many are useful for the production of medicinal oils (tea tree, eucalyptus, myrtle, etc.) and
                Message 7 of 12 , Feb 28, 2009
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                  There are many used for spice, (curry tree, kaffir lime, bay), many
                  are useful for the production of medicinal oils (tea tree, eucalyptus,
                  myrtle, etc.) and some are used for food preparation (banana). There
                  are herbacious biennial/perennial crops that we eat parts the leaf or
                  stems (such as cardoon, filleheads or celery).

                  Since the leaves of woody perennials are kept for at least one entire
                  season (and as many as seven or more), they are a bit tough, with a
                  relatively thick, waxy epidermis that defies human digestion.
                  Generally, they are best consumed through the filter of a ruminant as
                  milk or meat. Of course, they are also really good at feeding the
                  ground, with or without the help of goats, who really do, eat just
                  about anything. They're used in Oregon to remove invasive non-native
                  species such as Himalayan Blackberry (Rubus discolor) and Gorse (Ulex
                  europeans).

                  -Marie in Cascadia


                  --- In fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com, "mcavincheyfrank"
                  <fmcavin@...> wrote:

                  > I am wondering whether anyone knows of any trees that produce tasty,
                  nutritious leaves? I find it odd that I've never heard of ANY trees
                  > that are used for the production of leaves for food. Seems like there
                  > must be something out there that could be at least developed into a
                  > good leaf crop.
                  >
                  > Frank
                  >
                • Jeff
                  ... for spice, (curry tree, kaffir lime, bay), of medicinal oils (tea tree, eucalyptus, myrtle, etc.) and some are food preparation (banana). In the temperate
                  Message 8 of 12 , Feb 28, 2009
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                    --- In fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com, "The Dark Damsel"
                    <sillydog@...> wrote:
                    >
                    for spice, (curry tree, kaffir lime, bay),
                    of medicinal oils (tea tree, eucalyptus, myrtle, etc.) and some are
                    food preparation (banana).

                    In the temperate climate the European Linden is used when young and
                    mucilginous.... (In Britain they call this lime- for reasons unknown
                    to me)

                    the American lindens (basswood and little leaf can be used but aren't
                    as tasty...
                    Slippery Elm is used similarly when just past the bud stage...

                    Spruce needles make a palatable but not great tea


                    Listed as edible leaves in Edible Forest Gardening by Jacke and Toensmeir

                    Red Bud (a nitrogen fixing tree from eastern US has leaves that are
                    edible.
                    Both european and american beech
                    rose of sharon is listed as fair- I think this is a bush?

                    Xanthoceras sorbifolium -yellow horn is listed as edible

                    Zanthoxylum spp. -prickly ash can be used as medicinal




                    There
                    > are herbacious biennial/perennial crops that we eat parts the leaf or
                    > stems (such as cardoon, filleheads or celery).
                    >
                    > Since the leaves of woody perennials are kept for at least one entire
                    > season (and as many as seven or more), they are a bit tough, with a
                    > relatively thick, waxy epidermis that defies human digestion.
                    > Generally, they are best consumed through the filter of a ruminant as
                    > milk or meat. Of course, they are also really good at feeding the
                    > ground, with or without the help of goats, who really do, eat just
                    > about anything. They're used in Oregon to remove invasive non-native
                    > species such as Himalayan Blackberry (Rubus discolor) and Gorse (Ulex
                    > europeans).
                    >
                    > -Marie in Cascadia
                    >
                    >
                    > --- In fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com, "mcavincheyfrank"
                    > <fmcavin@> wrote:
                    >
                    > > I am wondering whether anyone knows of any trees that produce tasty,
                    > nutritious leaves? I find it odd that I've never heard of ANY trees
                    > > that are used for the production of leaves for food. Seems like
                    there
                    > > must be something out there that could be at least developed into a
                    > > good leaf crop.
                    > >
                    > > Frank
                    > >
                    >
                  • mcavincheyfrank
                    Well, yes. I am aware of all those useful trees. My desire is to find out whether somewhere in the temperate part of the world there are trees that produce
                    Message 9 of 12 , Feb 28, 2009
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                      Well, yes. I am aware of all those useful trees. My desire is to
                      find out whether somewhere in the temperate part of the world there
                      are trees that produce tasty leaves. Seems like there HAS to be
                      something like that somewhere.

                      Frank

                      --- In fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com, "The Dark Damsel"
                      <sillydog@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > There are many used for spice, (curry tree, kaffir lime, bay), many
                      > are useful for the production of medicinal oils (tea tree,
                      eucalyptus,
                      > myrtle, etc.) and some are used for food preparation (banana).
                      There
                      > are herbacious biennial/perennial crops that we eat parts the leaf
                      or
                      > stems (such as cardoon, filleheads or celery).
                      >
                      > Since the leaves of woody perennials are kept for at least one
                      entire
                      > season (and as many as seven or more), they are a bit tough, with a
                      > relatively thick, waxy epidermis that defies human digestion.
                      > Generally, they are best consumed through the filter of a ruminant
                      as
                      > milk or meat. Of course, they are also really good at feeding the
                      > ground, with or without the help of goats, who really do, eat just
                      > about anything. They're used in Oregon to remove invasive non-
                      native
                      > species such as Himalayan Blackberry (Rubus discolor) and Gorse
                      (Ulex
                      > europeans).
                      >
                      > -Marie in Cascadia
                      >
                      >
                      > --- In fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com, "mcavincheyfrank"
                      > <fmcavin@> wrote:
                      >
                      > > I am wondering whether anyone knows of any trees that produce
                      tasty,
                      > nutritious leaves? I find it odd that I've never heard of ANY trees
                      > > that are used for the production of leaves for food. Seems like
                      there
                      > > must be something out there that could be at least developed into
                      a
                      > > good leaf crop.
                      > >
                      > > Frank
                      > >
                      >
                    • jhereg9333
                      In addition to the trees/shrubs already mentioned, I d like to add young Rose of Sharon leaves (sorry, scientific name eludes me atm) as well as young maple
                      Message 10 of 12 , Feb 28, 2009
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                        In addition to the trees/shrubs already mentioned, I'd like to add
                        young "Rose of Sharon" leaves (sorry, scientific name eludes me atm)
                        as well as young maple leaves (Acer spp.). I'm particularly fond of
                        the red leaved varieties, they have a deep, rich flavor with some
                        slight bitterness.

                        Jeremy
                        --- In fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com, "mcavincheyfrank"
                        <fmcavin@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > --- In fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com, Sara Mandal-Joy <smjlist@>
                        > wrote:
                        > >
                        > > Thanks for the many good ideas. I'm learning so much about
                        trees -
                        > and
                        > > bushes - and, well, life :-) .
                        > > Sara
                        > >
                        > I am wondering whether anyone knows of any trees that produce
                        tasty, nutritious leaves? I find it odd that I've never heard of ANY
                        trees
                        > that are used for the production of leaves for food. Seems like
                        there
                        > must be something out there that could be at least developed into a
                        > good leaf crop.
                        >
                        > Frank
                        >
                      • Linda Shewan
                        A number of acacia trees have edible seeds like A. victoriae, A.longifolia (also called A.sophorae), A.notabilis, A.retinodes, A.pycnantha and A.fimbriata.
                        Message 11 of 12 , Mar 1, 2009
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                          A number of acacia trees have edible seeds like A. victoriae, A.longifolia
                          (also called A.sophorae), A.notabilis, A.retinodes, A.pycnantha and
                          A.fimbriata. Mostly, commercial products are prepared by lightly baking the
                          seed, then grinding it to a powder. The most popular commercial products
                          containing wattle seed are breads, biscuits, cakes, and ice cream - Wattle
                          seed is gluten-free and so is suitable for particular diets, but in
                          bread-making the absence of gluten affects the texture, and so wattle seed
                          flour is combined with a higher proportion of ordinary wheaten flour. Wattle
                          seed could be a useful ingredient in diabetic diets, as the carbohydrates
                          are absorbed quite slowly, so providing energy over a long period.
                          Mongongo trees - Why should we garden, when there are so many mongongo
                          trees in the world? - !Kung tribesman. See
                          http://permaculture.org.au/2008/11/19/desert-ways/#more-882


                          TROPICAL/SUB-TROPICAL ONLY
                          Moringa Oleifera - you can use all parts of it! Check this out...
                          http://enviro.org.au/article_moringaTree.asp it is truly amazing. I have
                          tried to grow some here but it is too cold - Victoria, Australia. I have one
                          tree that survived last winter - well it died back to roots and then came
                          back in spring - but it is still only 20cm tall whereas it grows really fast
                          in sub-tropical/tropical environments. I want a greenhouse (or at least a
                          house with north facing windows) sometimes!

                          Also the tamarind tree (Tamarindus indica) - it is one of the most useful of
                          tropical trees - for shelter, shade, food firebreaks, fuel wood, forage,
                          fodder, bee food and mulch. Leaves, flowers and immature pods are eaten as
                          vegetables, while these items plus the bark and roots have medicinal
                          properties.

                          I recommend the books Edible Forest Gardens but Dave Jacke and Eric
                          Toensmeier . Book 2 has an amazing appendix cover vast numbers of temperate
                          climate edible plants including trees, shrubs, herbs, ground covers and root
                          crops. Also http://www.ibiblio.org/pfaf/D_search.html is a fantastic
                          resource. This search
                          http://www.ibiblio.org/pfaf/cgi-bin/find_use?ED_USE=Leaves
                          <http://www.ibiblio.org/pfaf/cgi-bin/find_use?ED_USE=Leaves&CAN=EDIB>
                          &CAN=EDIB lists all the plants with edible leaves, including trees. You can
                          click on a tree to get more detailed information. I use this resource
                          regularly.

                          Hope this helps, or is interesting at least.

                          Cheers, Linda



                          From: fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com
                          [mailto:fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of jhereg9333
                          Sent: Sunday, 1 March 2009 2:04 PM
                          To: fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com
                          Subject: [fukuoka_farming] Re: Kansas legume type tree

                          In addition to the trees/shrubs already mentioned, I'd like to add
                          young "Rose of Sharon" leaves (sorry, scientific name eludes me atm)
                          as well as young maple leaves (Acer spp.). I'm particularly fond of
                          the red leaved varieties, they have a deep, rich flavor with some
                          slight bitterness.

                          Jeremy
                          --- In fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com
                          <mailto:fukuoka_farming%40yahoogroups.com> , "mcavincheyfrank"
                          <fmcavin@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > --- In fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com
                          <mailto:fukuoka_farming%40yahoogroups.com> , Sara Mandal-Joy <smjlist@>
                          > wrote:
                          > >
                          > > Thanks for the many good ideas. I'm learning so much about
                          trees -
                          > and
                          > > bushes - and, well, life :-) .
                          > > Sara
                          > >
                          > I am wondering whether anyone knows of any trees that produce
                          tasty, nutritious leaves? I find it odd that I've never heard of ANY
                          trees
                          > that are used for the production of leaves for food. Seems like
                          there
                          > must be something out there that could be at least developed into a
                          > good leaf crop.
                          >
                          > Frank
                          >



                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • yarrow@sfo.com
                          ... tasty, nutritious leaves? ... Though not technically a tree, the perennial walking kale (also known as tree collards) is easy to grow and produces lots of
                          Message 12 of 12 , Mar 1, 2009
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                            --- "mcavincheyfrank" <fmcavin@...> wrote:
                            > I am wondering whether anyone knows of any trees that produce
                            tasty, nutritious leaves?
                            >>

                            Though not technically a tree, the perennial walking kale (also known
                            as tree collards) is easy to grow and produces lots of large edible
                            leaves. My plants are 7 ft. high, but I've heard of plants that can
                            grow over a house (30 ft.) here in northern California, and they are
                            very easy to propagate.

                            The only significant pest problem I've seen is some bird predation of
                            young plants in winter -- I had to cover newly planted cuttings with
                            netting.

                            Also, the leaves taste best in cool months, when they are sweeter and
                            silkier-textured than dinosaur (also called tuscan, black, or
                            lacinato) kale or siberian/red/white kale, and have a much milder
                            flavor than annual collards. They can still be eaten in warm months,
                            but I find them less palatable. Kale always gets a high score for
                            nutritional density.

                            In the 4-5 years I've been growing them, the plants have not produced
                            any flowers or seed.

                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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