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Re: [fukuoka_farming] Goats vs Cows was Zero Input Farming

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  • Anders Skarlind
    Dieter, you may need to learn composting better. One wheelbarrow from 30-50 is an extremely low return even with dry hay that isn t compressed. I find
    Message 1 of 38 , Dec 14, 2008
      Dieter,
      you may need to learn composting better. One wheelbarrow from 30-50
      is an extremely low return even with dry hay that isn't compressed. I
      find grass/hay not so suitable for composting, unless it has fauled
      considerably. Grass is better used to cover compost heaps and for
      mulching. Weeds are good composting material, also roots with soil on
      them. IMHO kitchen scraps should be composted, first in a compost bin
      and then perhaps in the heap. (While I am not so strict as you on
      composting manure. It shouldn't be fresh when spread though, at least
      normally.) Further, add some soil, old compost (about 10% together)
      and a little ash and or lime to the heap (like salt to the food or
      about 1%). Lay the compost in layers, but I think you don't need to
      cut everything in small pieces (like Japanese farmers seem to have
      worked so hard with according to Fukuoka). Mix in soil, old compost
      and lime/ash between the layers. Preferably mix in some manure and
      perhaps kitchen scraps too. Cover the heap with a layer of soil
      (about 1 cm) and a layer of grass (about 10 cm or enough to protect
      it from the worst heat, cold and drought).

      I would say I get one wheelbarrow finished compost from two
      wheelbarrows of composting material. If I would compost mainly grass
      it depends, but I reckon I would get at least one wheelbarrow
      finished compost per 10 wheelbarrows of composting material.

      Combine good composting craftmanship, preps, ingenuity, intuition and
      love for the best result. :-)
      I have been doing this with and without the preps and I think the
      preps make a difference.

      Anders

      At 23:04 2008-12-14, Dieter Brand wrote:
      >When you heap-compost plant residues you will find that it takes
      >approximately 30-50 wheelbarrows full grass and weeds to get one
      >wheelbarrow of compost after 6 months to a year. If you let it sit
      >for 3 to 5 years it hardly fills a bucket. Of course this is by
      >volume, when calculating by mass or by weight the proportion is not
      >quite as unfavorable. Still the losses are enormous. And these are
      >only the losses in terms of _substance_. Nobody even thought about
      >the losses in terms of _biological processes_ this implies.
      >
      >When I spread my kitchen scraps in the garden, they start to decompose
      >and interact with the soil immediately as it would happen in nature.
      >Even if nobody can tell what these processes are really like, I have
      >no reason to assume that this part of the biological processes ought
      >to take place in a separate location on a compost heap away from the
      >soil. I'm by no means of the opinion that we have to copy nature as
      >faithfully as possible, far from it! But life on this planet has
      >evolved over millios of years in soil in which all these processes
      >take place together and not separated into growing area and composting
      >area. Hence, as long as we can develop methods for growing food crops
      >that allow us to have these two processes to take place together in
      >one place, I don't see any reasons why composting has to take place on
      >a separate compost heap.
      >
      >Dieter Brand
      >Portugal
      >
      >PS: There are no doubt heaps of data proving the advantages of BD
      >preps, EM, etc.; however, is it really this or that particular
      >inocculant that makes the difference? Or is it the farmer who with
      >all her ingenuity, intuition and love makes her soil and plants what
      >they are?
    • Anders Skarlind
      Dieter, you may need to learn composting better. One wheelbarrow from 30-50 is an extremely low return even with dry hay that isn t compressed. I find
      Message 38 of 38 , Dec 14, 2008
        Dieter,
        you may need to learn composting better. One wheelbarrow from 30-50
        is an extremely low return even with dry hay that isn't compressed. I
        find grass/hay not so suitable for composting, unless it has fauled
        considerably. Grass is better used to cover compost heaps and for
        mulching. Weeds are good composting material, also roots with soil on
        them. IMHO kitchen scraps should be composted, first in a compost bin
        and then perhaps in the heap. (While I am not so strict as you on
        composting manure. It shouldn't be fresh when spread though, at least
        normally.) Further, add some soil, old compost (about 10% together)
        and a little ash and or lime to the heap (like salt to the food or
        about 1%). Lay the compost in layers, but I think you don't need to
        cut everything in small pieces (like Japanese farmers seem to have
        worked so hard with according to Fukuoka). Mix in soil, old compost
        and lime/ash between the layers. Preferably mix in some manure and
        perhaps kitchen scraps too. Cover the heap with a layer of soil
        (about 1 cm) and a layer of grass (about 10 cm or enough to protect
        it from the worst heat, cold and drought).

        I would say I get one wheelbarrow finished compost from two
        wheelbarrows of composting material. If I would compost mainly grass
        it depends, but I reckon I would get at least one wheelbarrow
        finished compost per 10 wheelbarrows of composting material.

        Combine good composting craftmanship, preps, ingenuity, intuition and
        love for the best result. :-)
        I have been doing this with and without the preps and I think the
        preps make a difference.

        Anders

        At 23:04 2008-12-14, Dieter Brand wrote:
        >When you heap-compost plant residues you will find that it takes
        >approximately 30-50 wheelbarrows full grass and weeds to get one
        >wheelbarrow of compost after 6 months to a year. If you let it sit
        >for 3 to 5 years it hardly fills a bucket. Of course this is by
        >volume, when calculating by mass or by weight the proportion is not
        >quite as unfavorable. Still the losses are enormous. And these are
        >only the losses in terms of _substance_. Nobody even thought about
        >the losses in terms of _biological processes_ this implies.
        >
        >When I spread my kitchen scraps in the garden, they start to decompose
        >and interact with the soil immediately as it would happen in nature.
        >Even if nobody can tell what these processes are really like, I have
        >no reason to assume that this part of the biological processes ought
        >to take place in a separate location on a compost heap away from the
        >soil. I'm by no means of the opinion that we have to copy nature as
        >faithfully as possible, far from it! But life on this planet has
        >evolved over millios of years in soil in which all these processes
        >take place together and not separated into growing area and composting
        >area. Hence, as long as we can develop methods for growing food crops
        >that allow us to have these two processes to take place together in
        >one place, I don't see any reasons why composting has to take place on
        >a separate compost heap.
        >
        >Dieter Brand
        >Portugal
        >
        >PS: There are no doubt heaps of data proving the advantages of BD
        >preps, EM, etc.; however, is it really this or that particular
        >inocculant that makes the difference? Or is it the farmer who with
        >all her ingenuity, intuition and love makes her soil and plants what
        >they are?
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