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Micronutrients

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  • Jeff
    So as I ve mentioned before been doing a lot of reading on dynamic accumulators... although I would still like a more definitive list on the subject if anyone
    Message 1 of 5 , Dec 3, 2008
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      So as I've mentioned before been doing a lot of reading on dynamic
      accumulators... although I would still like a more definitive list on
      the subject if anyone knows of one besides the aforementioned...

      It seems that dynamic accumulators fall into two groups...
      one group is deep rooted plants that draw nutrients from deep in the
      soil that are beyond the reach of most plants.. this process brings
      them closer to the surface for use by other plants when mulched. in..

      however I was reading that in some situations this as actually left
      the soil worse off.... because it depleted the deeper soil, ....

      the second group seems to involve plants that are simply more
      efficient at gathering up certain nutrients, and or use different
      nutrients more than average. While this might lead to a balance of
      nutrients by selecting certain plants... (if you have a soil
      deficiency..)...

      but I'm not sure how this is any better than simply adding organic
      matter from off site...
      because all organic matter has all the nutrients??

      and if it is all about the organic matter...
      shouldn't more focus be one biomass crops, and root crops similar
      towhat Bob Monie does...

      hrm. food for thought anyways
    • Robert Monie
      Hi Jeff,   The work of microbiologist Kristine Nicholas seems important to me.  She is showing that native grasses like switchgrass, blue gama, bluestem,
      Message 2 of 5 , Dec 3, 2008
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        Hi Jeff,
         
        The work of microbiologist Kristine Nicholas seems important to me.  She is showing that native grasses like switchgrass, blue gama, bluestem, Indian grass not only send down deep roots but increase glomalin levels and arbuscular mycorrhizal fungi that help "glue" the soil together, make it coherent, and most importantly, shuttle biologically available nutrients from soil to plant. Some land reclamation companies are now using AMF and triticale to accomplish a similar end, and most likely Orchard grass (Robert Ellis's favorite, especially in combination with chicory and clover), and yacon, Jerusalem artichoke, chicory and many other plants will also eventually be shown to increase glomalin. Whatever that mysterious quality of "fertile" and "fertility" turns out to be in the soil, it must have something to do with these processes. Google searching for "Switchgrass may mean better soil" turns up several articles about the work of Kristine Nicholas.
         
        My personal experience with the standard "dymanic accumulator" plants suggests that you can hardly do better than plant lots of chicory and stinging nettle.  These are very tolerant of other plants, stable, persistent but not invasive, and seem to bring out the best of whatever they are planted next to.
         
        By the way, Jeff, I've added burdock to my ley  (which also includes vap ca and rau om) and this time it is thriving. I probably didn't plant enough of it last time--strength in numbers.  
         
        Bob Monie
        New Orleans, LA 70119

        --- On Wed, 12/3/08, Jeff <shultonus@...> wrote:

        From: Jeff <shultonus@...>
        Subject: [fukuoka_farming] Micronutrients
        To: fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com
        Date: Wednesday, December 3, 2008, 2:52 PM







        So as I've mentioned before been doing a lot of reading on dynamic
        accumulators. .. although I would still like a more definitive list on
        the subject if anyone knows of one besides the aforementioned. ..

        It seems that dynamic accumulators fall into two groups...
        one group is deep rooted plants that draw nutrients from deep in the
        soil that are beyond the reach of most plants.. this process brings
        them closer to the surface for use by other plants when mulched. in..

        however I was reading that in some situations this as actually left
        the soil worse off.... because it depleted the deeper soil, ....

        the second group seems to involve plants that are simply more
        efficient at gathering up certain nutrients, and or use different
        nutrients more than average. While this might lead to a balance of
        nutrients by selecting certain plants... (if you have a soil
        deficiency.. )...

        but I'm not sure how this is any better than simply adding organic
        matter from off site...
        because all organic matter has all the nutrients??

        and if it is all about the organic matter...
        shouldn't more focus be one biomass crops, and root crops similar
        towhat Bob Monie does...

        hrm. food for thought anyways















        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Jeff
        Following up on Bob Monies, and Dieters references.. (Primavesi, Bunch, and Kristine Nichols) Thanks all, these were really interesting reading. I ran across,
        Message 3 of 5 , Dec 5, 2008
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          Following up on Bob Monies, and Dieters references..
          (Primavesi, Bunch, and Kristine Nichols)

          Thanks all, these were really interesting reading.

          I ran across, something
          called 7 year bean

          Its a short lived perrenial lima ban from central america...
          it is reported to be extremely drought tolorant....

          I thought it might be use for Dieter....

          The group distributing the seed material
          is ECHO (education concerns in hunger..)
          They also are responsible for SRI concept in SE Asia....
        • Robert Monie
          Hi Jeff,   Another source worth reading is   Foster, L. 1988. Herbs in pastures: Development and research in Britain, 1850-1984.       Biol. Agric.
          Message 4 of 5 , Dec 5, 2008
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            Hi Jeff,
             
            Another source worth reading is
             
            Foster, L. 1988. Herbs in pastures: Development and research in Britain, 1850-1984.
                  Biol. Agric. Hortic. 5:97-133. This reviews some of the scientific principles behind
                  the ley farming practiced by such masters as Robert Elliot, Newman Turner, and
                  their followers. They were stout adherents of the rule that "root mass becomes
                  compost" (as do plant stem and leaf litter also) that we have seen revived by 
                  some current Japanese natural farmers.
                
             
            Bob Monie

            --- On Fri, 12/5/08, Jeff <shultonus@...> wrote:

            From: Jeff <shultonus@...>
            Subject: [fukuoka_farming] Re: Micronutrients
            To: fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com
            Date: Friday, December 5, 2008, 4:27 PM






            Following up on Bob Monies, and Dieters references..
            (Primavesi, Bunch, and Kristine Nichols)

            Thanks all, these were really interesting reading.

            I ran across, something
            called 7 year bean

            Its a short lived perrenial lima ban from central america...
            it is reported to be extremely drought tolorant....

            I thought it might be use for Dieter....

            The group distributing the seed material
            is ECHO (education concerns in hunger..)
            They also are responsible for SRI concept in SE Asia....















            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Dieter Brand
            ... Thanks Jeff, I hadn t heard about this. Dieter
            Message 5 of 5 , Dec 5, 2008
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              > I ran across, something
              > called 7 year bean

              Thanks Jeff, I hadn't heard about this.

              Dieter
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