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RE: [fukuoka_farming] soil regeneration

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  • souscayrous
    Hello Xavier, I m glad you joined up with the group and are posting at this relatively quiet time (I suspect those of us in the northern hemisphere are working
    Message 1 of 7 , Aug 9, 2002
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      Hello Xavier, I'm glad you joined up with the group and are posting at this
      relatively quiet time (I suspect those of us in the northern hemisphere are
      working hard outside at the moment).
      The BRF/RCW work of Lemieux is certainly interesting and I personally find
      it convincing, though as has been pointed out to me elsewhere, grassland is
      fertile too. Yet, the principle nature of the best farmland is that it was
      once climax hardwood forest - ie the fertility of the best soil is
      underwritten by the centuries long breakdown of hardwood. It seems
      reasonable to assume that the mulching of tired soil by BRF would help
      return the soil to fertility. This is certainly why I used the composting
      techniques of Jean Pain - though this was ostensibly to preclude the need
      for irrigation, the fact that it would also put lignious organic matter back
      into the soil via a mulch (the lignin being broken down through fungal
      action into humic acid) was also a positive reason for me.
      However, it has also been pointed out at length on this list that such
      composting and mulching techniques while useful are not as beneficial as
      simply using plants to return the soil to a fertile state. Whilst the time
      needed to grow a hardwood forest and return it to fertility may be beyond
      our patience (100-200 years) it is not impossible to wait the ten years or
      so for a fast growing nitrogen fixing tree such as the Black Wattle used by
      Fukuoka (did we decide that he meant Acacia mollissonia by this?) to be
      large enough to fell or simply trim and return the cuttings to the soil -
      such techniques are certainly the current thinking in sustainable
      agriforestry/silvopasture/intercropping etc.
      For vegetable production alone fertility can be built in the soil more
      quickly, naturally and economically by the use of green mulches or
      successional cropping (with or without Emilia's raised bed techniques). It
      is the area I'm currently looking at as I aim to put about 400m2 into raised
      beds this autumn and I look for the right crops/green mulch/cover crops to
      grow between now and the start of next years growing season.
      If anyone has experience of starting up such an operation (some of the
      produce will be for the market some for local families in a small CSA type
      venture and the rest for my family) then I would appreciate any help going.
      Xavier, you'll find a discussion on Lemieux in the archives of this group
      covering some of the above points as well as associated background and
      references (including weblinks); I'm thinking especially of the work of Alan
      Smith on the oxygen/ethylene cycle in soils and the work of Elaine Ingham on
      the 'Soil Food Web'.


      Souscayrous



      -----Original Message-----
      From: Xavier Dequaire [mailto:xavier@...]
      Sent: Friday, August 09, 2002 10:23 AM
      To: fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: [fukuoka_farming] soil regeneration

      Following up some discussions here, have a look at
      Ramial Chipped Wood (RCW)
      a method developped in Canada at the Laval university by G. Lemieux


      The only reference I have now is
      http://users.skynet.be/BRFinfo/anglais/abstract.htm

      but you can search for "Ramial Chipped Wood"

      peace

      XAvier
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    • Xavier Dequaire
      What I understand is that you can use coppice wood for that purpose and for 3-4 years. In an integrated settlement, at least in temperate and cold climate
      Message 2 of 7 , Aug 9, 2002
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        What I understand is that you can use coppice wood for that purpose and for 3-4
        years. In an integrated settlement, at least in temperate and cold climate
        (like here in Norway and Canada) with locally produced wood for heating, this
        seems a good and interesting solution.

        I'll explore the archive

        > Whilst the time needed to grow a hardwood forest and return it to fertility
        > may be beyond our patience (100-200 years)

        I have read somewhere, new research results, that the best forest nowadays grow
        on former farm land....

        so the alternance like in traditional settlements with burning of small areas
        like the lacandon or in the amazonas might be a reasonable solution.
        It is sustainable

        peace

        XAvier
        --
        _____________________________________
        For bedre kommunikasjon og læring:
        For en bærekraftig samfunn
        XDi, X a v i e r D E Q U A I R E i n t e r a k t i v
        phone: (+47) 66 84 79 83
        CBT/Multimedia---anvendt e-learning-
        _____________________________________

        Do you wonder what your lifestyle implies for our common planet?
        Explore that at http://www.earthday.org/footprint/

        _____________________________________
        Homesite http://www.futurich.com/
        _____________________________________
      • souscayrous
        ... (like here in Norway and Canada) with locally produced wood for heating, this seems a good and interesting solution. Also here in southern France, the
        Message 3 of 7 , Aug 9, 2002
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          >In an integrated settlement, at least in temperate and cold climate
          (like here in Norway and Canada) with locally produced wood for heating,
          this
          seems a good and interesting solution.

          Also here in southern France, the chêne vert coppice nicely; large pieces
          for firewood smaller twigs, branches and leaves I break or split into
          smaller pieces for a deep mulch. Sustainable, but without a chainsaw and
          robust shredder quite labour intensive.
          Souscayrous


          -----Original Message-----
          From: Xavier Dequaire [mailto:xavier@...]
          Sent: Friday, August 09, 2002 12:10 PM
          To: fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: Re: [fukuoka_farming] soil regeneration

          What I understand is that you can use coppice wood for that purpose and for
          3-4
          years. In an integrated settlement, at least in temperate and cold climate
          (like here in Norway and Canada) with locally produced wood for heating,
          this
          seems a good and interesting solution.

          I'll explore the archive

          > Whilst the time needed to grow a hardwood forest and return it to
          fertility
          > may be beyond our patience (100-200 years)

          I have read somewhere, new research results, that the best forest nowadays
          grow
          on former farm land....

          so the alternance like in traditional settlements with burning of small
          areas
          like the lacandon or in the amazonas might be a reasonable solution.
          It is sustainable

          peace

          XAvier
          --
          _____________________________________
          For bedre kommunikasjon og læring:
          For en bærekraftig samfunn
          XDi, X a v i e r D E Q U A I R E i n t e r a k t i v
          phone: (+47) 66 84 79 83
          CBT/Multimedia---anvendt e-learning-
          _____________________________________

          Do you wonder what your lifestyle implies for our common planet?
          Explore that at http://www.earthday.org/footprint/

          _____________________________________
          Homesite http://www.futurich.com/
          _____________________________________




          To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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        • burt levy
          I was wondering since it is growing season, if anyone was working on producing a Fukuoka Natural farm or garden, and what thier results are so far. Also what
          Message 4 of 7 , Aug 9, 2002
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            I was wondering since it is growing season, if anyone
            was working on producing a Fukuoka Natural farm or
            garden, and what thier results are so far. Also what
            problems are they facing. I'm traveling up into the
            Northwest from Northern Cal. I'm stopping off at
            various organic farms to talk to people about Natural
            farming. I'm going to try to convince organic farmers
            to try Natural farming techniques on fallow ground, or
            on small patches as test sites. I'll report on any
            takers.
            --- souscayrous <souscayrous@...> wrote:
            > >In an integrated settlement, at least in temperate
            > and cold climate
            > (like here in Norway and Canada) with locally
            > produced wood for heating,
            > this
            > seems a good and interesting solution.
            >
            > Also here in southern France, the ch�ne vert coppice
            > nicely; large pieces
            > for firewood smaller twigs, branches and leaves I
            > break or split into
            > smaller pieces for a deep mulch. Sustainable, but
            > without a chainsaw and
            > robust shredder quite labour intensive.
            > Souscayrous
            >
            >
            > -----Original Message-----
            > From: Xavier Dequaire [mailto:xavier@...]
            > Sent: Friday, August 09, 2002 12:10 PM
            > To: fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com
            > Subject: Re: [fukuoka_farming] soil regeneration
            >
            > What I understand is that you can use coppice wood
            > for that purpose and for
            > 3-4
            > years. In an integrated settlement, at least in
            > temperate and cold climate
            > (like here in Norway and Canada) with locally
            > produced wood for heating,
            > this
            > seems a good and interesting solution.
            >
            > I'll explore the archive
            >
            > > Whilst the time needed to grow a hardwood forest
            > and return it to
            > fertility
            > > may be beyond our patience (100-200 years)
            >
            > I have read somewhere, new research results, that
            > the best forest nowadays
            > grow
            > on former farm land....
            >
            > so the alternance like in traditional settlements
            > with burning of small
            > areas
            > like the lacandon or in the amazonas might be a
            > reasonable solution.
            > It is sustainable
            >
            > peace
            >
            > XAvier
            > --
            > _____________________________________
            > For bedre kommunikasjon og l�ring:
            > For en b�rekraftig samfunn
            > XDi, X a v i e r D E Q U A I R E i n t e r a k t
            > i v
            > phone: (+47) 66 84 79 83
            > CBT/Multimedia---anvendt e-learning-
            > _____________________________________
            >
            > Do you wonder what your lifestyle implies for our
            > common planet?
            > Explore that at http://www.earthday.org/footprint/
            >
            > _____________________________________
            > Homesite http://www.futurich.com/
            > _____________________________________
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
            > fukuoka_farming-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
            >
            >
            >
            > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
            > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
            >
            >


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          • Robert Monie
            REPLY: Hi Burt and Souscayrous, A network of Fukuoka experimental stations throughout the US would be a great accomplishment, even if only a little plot on
            Message 5 of 7 , Aug 10, 2002
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              REPLY:
              Hi Burt and Souscayrous,
              A network of Fukuoka experimental stations throughout the US would be a great accomplishment, even if only a little plot on each farm were devoted to this purpose.
              Burt, do you have any plans to go near the Redwood National Park? About 35 miles east of the park, off Bigfoot Scenic Highway 96, in Orleans, California, is George Steven's "Synergy Seeds" farm. Since Stevens is just about the only commercial farmer in the US who claims to be growing some seed (mostly grains, I believe) by methods adapted from Fukuoka, it would be a shame not to stop and talk with him. His address is P.O. Box 323, Orleans, CA 95556, e-mail 67@....
              Wouldn't we all like to see a map of Fukuoka research farms from Vancouver to Florida, from Baja, California to Rhode Island--a sort of Woody Guthrie "this land is your land" network dovoted to natural farming.
              May you have a productive trip along the West Coast,
              Robert Monie
              burt levy wrote:I was wondering since it is growing season, if anyone
              was working on producing a Fukuoka Natural farm or
              garden, and what thier results are so far. Also what
              problems are they facing. I'm traveling up into the
              Northwest from Northern Cal. I'm stopping off at
              various organic farms to talk to people about Natural
              farming. I'm going to try to convince organic farmers
              to try Natural farming techniques on fallow ground, or
              on small patches as test sites. I'll report on any
              takers.
              --- souscayrous wrote:
              > >In an integrated settlement, at least in temperate
              > and cold climate
              > (like here in Norway and Canada) with locally
              > produced wood for heating,
              > this
              > seems a good and interesting solution.
              >
              > Also here in southern France, the ch�ne vert coppice
              > nicely; large pieces
              > for firewood smaller twigs, branches and leaves I
              > break or split into
              > smaller pieces for a deep mulch. Sustainable, but
              > without a chainsaw and
              > robust shredder quite labour intensive.
              > Souscayrous
              >
              >
              > -----Original Message-----
              > From: Xavier Dequaire [mailto:xavier@...]
              > Sent: Friday, August 09, 2002 12:10 PM
              > To: fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com
              > Subject: Re: [fukuoka_farming] soil regeneration
              >
              > What I understand is that you can use coppice wood
              > for that purpose and for
              > 3-4
              > years. In an integrated settlement, at least in
              > temperate and cold climate
              > (like here in Norway and Canada) with locally
              > produced wood for heating,
              > this
              > seems a good and interesting solution.
              >
              > I'll explore the archive
              >
              > > Whilst the time needed to grow a hardwood forest
              > and return it to
              > fertility
              > > may be beyond our patience (100-200 years)
              >
              > I have read somewhere, new research results, that
              > the best forest nowadays
              > grow
              > on former farm land....
              >
              > so the alternance like in traditional settlements
              > with burning of small
              > areas
              > like the lacandon or in the amazonas might be a
              > reasonable solution.
              > It is sustainable
              >
              > peace
              >
              > XAvier
              > --
              > _____________________________________
              > For bedre kommunikasjon og l�ring:
              > For en b�rekraftig samfunn
              > XDi, X a v i e r D E Q U A I R E i n t e r a k t
              > i v
              > phone: (+47) 66 84 79 83
              > CBT/Multimedia---anvendt e-learning-
              > _____________________________________
              >
              > Do you wonder what your lifestyle implies for our
              > common planet?
              > Explore that at http://www.earthday.org/footprint/
              >
              > _____________________________________
              > Homesite http://www.futurich.com/
              > _____________________________________
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
              > fukuoka_farming-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
              >
              >
              >
              > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
              > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
              >
              >


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              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • burt levy
              I went through the area on the coast. I didn t go to Synergy farms, but I have been in contact with George. I told him about the website here. I have plans to
              Message 6 of 7 , Aug 12, 2002
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                I went through the area on the coast. I didn't go to
                Synergy farms, but I have been in contact with George.
                I told him about the website here. I have plans to
                visit him in Sept. He is about 3 hours away. I told
                him we could make seedballs while I was there. He was
                pretty excited about that and said that he would have
                some friends over and have a seedball party. One thing
                however is that a 300,000 acre fire went through that
                area into and So. Oregon. I was told that it went
                through Orleans. So I am going to email Geogre and
                find out if he made it through alright. He lives in a
                very remote area. I'll report on If he is alright.
                Burt-- Robert Monie <bobm20001@...> wrote:
                >
                > REPLY:
                > Hi Burt and Souscayrous,
                > A network of Fukuoka experimental stations
                > throughout the US would be a great accomplishment,
                > even if only a little plot on each farm were devoted
                > to this purpose.
                > Burt, do you have any plans to go near the Redwood
                > National Park? About 35 miles east of the park, off
                > Bigfoot Scenic Highway 96, in Orleans, California,
                > is George Steven's "Synergy Seeds" farm. Since
                > Stevens is just about the only commercial farmer in
                > the US who claims to be growing some seed (mostly
                > grains, I believe) by methods adapted from Fukuoka,
                > it would be a shame not to stop and talk with him.
                > His address is P.O. Box 323, Orleans, CA 95556,
                > e-mail 67@....
                > Wouldn't we all like to see a map of Fukuoka
                > research farms from Vancouver to Florida, from Baja,
                > California to Rhode Island--a sort of Woody Guthrie
                > "this land is your land" network dovoted to natural
                > farming.
                > May you have a productive trip along the West Coast,
                > Robert Monie
                > burt levy wrote:I was wondering since it is growing
                > season, if anyone
                > was working on producing a Fukuoka Natural farm or
                > garden, and what thier results are so far. Also what
                > problems are they facing. I'm traveling up into the
                > Northwest from Northern Cal. I'm stopping off at
                > various organic farms to talk to people about
                > Natural
                > farming. I'm going to try to convince organic
                > farmers
                > to try Natural farming techniques on fallow ground,
                > or
                > on small patches as test sites. I'll report on any
                > takers.
                > --- souscayrous wrote:
                > > >In an integrated settlement, at least in
                > temperate
                > > and cold climate
                > > (like here in Norway and Canada) with locally
                > > produced wood for heating,
                > > this
                > > seems a good and interesting solution.
                > >
                > > Also here in southern France, the ch�ne vert
                > coppice
                > > nicely; large pieces
                > > for firewood smaller twigs, branches and leaves I
                > > break or split into
                > > smaller pieces for a deep mulch. Sustainable, but
                > > without a chainsaw and
                > > robust shredder quite labour intensive.
                > > Souscayrous
                > >
                > >
                > > -----Original Message-----
                > > From: Xavier Dequaire [mailto:xavier@...]
                > > Sent: Friday, August 09, 2002 12:10 PM
                > > To: fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com
                > > Subject: Re: [fukuoka_farming] soil regeneration
                > >
                > > What I understand is that you can use coppice wood
                > > for that purpose and for
                > > 3-4
                > > years. In an integrated settlement, at least in
                > > temperate and cold climate
                > > (like here in Norway and Canada) with locally
                > > produced wood for heating,
                > > this
                > > seems a good and interesting solution.
                > >
                > > I'll explore the archive
                > >
                > > > Whilst the time needed to grow a hardwood forest
                > > and return it to
                > > fertility
                > > > may be beyond our patience (100-200 years)
                > >
                > > I have read somewhere, new research results, that
                > > the best forest nowadays
                > > grow
                > > on former farm land....
                > >
                > > so the alternance like in traditional settlements
                > > with burning of small
                > > areas
                > > like the lacandon or in the amazonas might be a
                > > reasonable solution.
                > > It is sustainable
                > >
                > > peace
                > >
                > > XAvier
                > > --
                > > _____________________________________
                > > For bedre kommunikasjon og l�ring:
                > > For en b�rekraftig samfunn
                > > XDi, X a v i e r D E Q U A I R E i n t e r a k t
                > > i v
                > > phone: (+47) 66 84 79 83
                > > CBT/Multimedia---anvendt e-learning-
                > > _____________________________________
                > >
                > > Do you wonder what your lifestyle implies for our
                > > common planet?
                > > Explore that at http://www.earthday.org/footprint/
                > >
                > > _____________________________________
                > > Homesite http://www.futurich.com/
                > > _____________________________________
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                > > fukuoka_farming-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                > >
                > >
                >
                >
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