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Re: [fukuoka_farming] advice on how to turn a lawn into a veggie garden

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  • Shawn Turner
    Permaculture is your ticket! I also recommend and excellent book on this subject called GAIA s Garden A guide to home-scale Permaculture by Toby Hemeway. ...
    Message 1 of 13 , Apr 28, 2008
      Permaculture is your ticket! I also recommend and excellent book on this subject called GAIA's Garden A guide to home-scale Permaculture by Toby Hemeway.


      ----- Original Message ----
      From: "Inesinlove@..." <Inesinlove@...>
      To: fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Monday, April 28, 2008 10:48:08 AM
      Subject: [fukuoka_farming] advice on how to turn a lawn into a veggie garden

      I need some advice how to turn a lawn into a veggie garden without
      disturbing the soil. It has been a lawn for a long time and I don't think the soil is
      very good. I don't see a lot of other species in the grass.
      Thanks Ines

      ************ **Need a new ride? Check out the largest site for U.S. used car
      listings at AOL Autos.
      (http://autos. aol.com/used? NCID=aolcmp00300 000002851)

      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





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    • Bernhard Heuvel
      Hi Ines, I recommend you the Square Foot Garden system. I use it myself successfully and it is ideally to start small and expand on success.
      Message 2 of 13 , Apr 28, 2008
        Hi Ines,

        I recommend you the Square Foot Garden system. I use it myself
        successfully and it is ideally to start small and expand on success.

        http://www.squarefootgardening.com/

        Another approach is the No-Dig-Garden-Bed which I recommend as well as a
        good start off. See:

        http://www.no-dig-vegetablegarden.com/build-a-garden.html


        Never try to build a massive garden, never use the whole space at once.
        You'll end up with work and more work. Start small, expand on success.
        This way you learn to work in niches, which is the way nature works.

        Regards,

        Bernhard
      • basjoos
        ... think the soil is ... One way is to put down a thick enough layer of hay to kill out the grass (unroll a round bale or lay down overlapping leaves from a
        Message 3 of 13 , Apr 29, 2008
          --- In fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com, Inesinlove@... wrote:
          >
          > I need some advice how to turn a lawn into a veggie garden without
          > disturbing the soil. It has been a lawn for a long time and I don't
          think the soil is
          > very good. I don't see a lot of other species in the grass.
          > Thanks Ines
          >

          One way is to put down a thick enough layer of hay to kill out the
          grass (unroll a round bale or lay down overlapping leaves from a square
          bale) and add enough manure to the hay to help it start composting.
          Then ideally let it sit for a month until all of the grass had died
          before planting, altough if you are in a hurry, you can plant large
          plants (tomotoes, squash, okra, melons, etc.)through the hay into the
          soil under the hay.
        • Raju Titus
          Dear friend, Very good Idea, simply scatter leguminous seeds in lawn and irrigate if required. Lawn cover is good for non grass variety. I found that grass
          Message 4 of 13 , Apr 29, 2008
            Dear friend,
            Very good Idea, simply scatter leguminous seeds in lawn and irrigate if
            required. Lawn cover is good for non grass variety. I found that
            grass provides nutrients for non grass family members and leguminous cover
            provides nutrients for non legume family members.
            Soil is good because it is


            On 4/28/08, Inesinlove@... <Inesinlove@...> wrote:
            >
            > I need some advice how to turn a lawn into a veggie garden without
            > disturbing the soil. It has been a lawn for a long time and I don't think
            > the soil is
            > very good. I don't see a lot of other species in the grass.
            > Thanks Ines
            >
            > **************Need a new ride? Check out the largest site for U.S. used
            > car
            > listings at AOL Autos.
            > (http://autos.aol.com/used?NCID=aolcmp00300000002851)
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >
            >
            >


            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Raju Titus
            Sorry what I want to say is that if soil is not tilled it is far better. Raju ... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            Message 5 of 13 , Apr 29, 2008
              Sorry what I want to say is that if soil is not tilled it is far better.
              Raju


              On 4/30/08, Raju Titus <rajuktitus@...> wrote:
              >
              > Dear friend,
              > Very good Idea, simply scatter leguminous seeds in lawn and irrigate if
              > required. Lawn cover is good for non grass variety. I found that
              > grass provides nutrients for non grass family members and leguminous cover
              > provides nutrients for non legume family members.
              > Soil is good because it is
              >
              >
              > On 4/28/08, Inesinlove@... <Inesinlove@...> wrote:
              > >
              > > I need some advice how to turn a lawn into a veggie garden without
              > > disturbing the soil. It has been a lawn for a long time and I don't
              > > think the soil is
              > > very good. I don't see a lot of other species in the grass.
              > > Thanks Ines
              > >
              > > **************Need a new ride? Check out the largest site for U.S. used
              > > car
              > > listings at AOL Autos.
              > > (http://autos.aol.com/used?NCID=aolcmp00300000002851)
              > >
              > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              > >
              > >
              > >
              >
              >


              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • David Keltie
              To help kill the grass underneath the straw, I use cardboard or newspaper (thick 20 pages or so) as a first layer. I push back the straw, then use a knife to
              Message 6 of 13 , Apr 30, 2008
                To help kill the grass underneath the straw, I use cardboard or
                newspaper (thick 20 pages or so) as a first layer. I push back the
                straw, then use a knife to open a small hole and plant into that
                pushing the straw back into place.

                Works for me.

                David

                On Wed, Apr 30, 2008 at 1:26 AM, basjoos <MKTurner7@...> wrote:
                > --- In fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com, Inesinlove@... wrote:
                > >
                > > I need some advice how to turn a lawn into a veggie garden without
                > > disturbing the soil. It has been a lawn for a long time and I don't
                > think the soil is
                > > very good. I don't see a lot of other species in the grass.
                > > Thanks Ines
                > >
                >
                > One way is to put down a thick enough layer of hay to kill out the
                > grass (unroll a round bale or lay down overlapping leaves from a square
                > bale) and add enough manure to the hay to help it start composting.
                > Then ideally let it sit for a month until all of the grass had died
                > before planting, altough if you are in a hurry, you can plant large
                > plants (tomotoes, squash, okra, melons, etc.)through the hay into the
                > soil under the hay.
                >
                >
                > ------------------------------------
                >
                > Yahoo! Groups Links
                >
                >
                >
                >
              • robin
                dear inesinlove; raju titus suggests the method most in keeping with fukuoka farming in my opinion and it is the one i have used because it works most with
                Message 7 of 13 , Apr 30, 2008
                  dear inesinlove;

                  raju titus suggests the method most in keeping with fukuoka farming
                  in my opinion and it is the one i have used because it works most with
                  nature instead of trying to suppress or cover up nature.

                  when you say "lawn" it makes me want to assume the grass has been
                  mowed for a while now...you've got to stop mowing with a lawn mower
                  the part(s) that you want to turn into a garden. you may feel
                  overwhelmed at first as the grass grows profusely but try to stay
                  calm.! you'll be surprised as the grass grows what other types of
                  weeds will begin to show up, such as dandelions, dock, poke, or whatever.

                  as raju titus says, obtain leguminous seeds such as clovers, vetches,
                  etc., and scatter them in and around between the grass clumps and
                  where there is swaths of grass that is not
                  clumping, you may want to cut out some areas within the grass to
                  create openings in which to throw your legume seeds; what i usually do
                  is ascertain where the grass is very profusely growing, and in the
                  center and/or where the
                  dandelions are (or whatever weed you have in there, if any) i take my
                  sharp
                  hand scythe and slash the weed and surrounding grass plants for a
                  short circumference to pieces down to the ground. that
                  creates openings right where the sun shines. you may have to do this
                  several
                  times, as the weed/grass will grow back from the root, and may even become
                  stronger for a while. so then i
                  scatter legume seeds in there, along with vegetable seeds. (clover can
                  be used at any time of the year) if the vegetable germinates and comes
                  up, it's roots may hitch a ride down the root canal forged by the weed
                  roots. you can cut the weed at any time during this, and mulch with
                  the weed, and neighboring grass. the crop plant may benefit from the
                  protection and cushioning played by this weed and grass mixture
                  growing all around it, just check to make sure no shadows from grasses
                  or weeds are cast over the actual crop plant until the plant gains
                  strength enough to dominate over it's surroundings.

                  in the fall or spring if you go ahead and scatter seeds of ground
                  cover plants, such as rye, buckwheat, along with your legume seeds, it
                  will be alot easier to just slash down these and either plant your
                  crop plant in a small hole that you dig in openings that you create
                  with your hand scythe (or scissors) in the soft short ground cover
                  crops, or, when you scatter your vegetable seeds at the same time that
                  you are scattering your ground cover crops your strongest veg crops
                  will take hold and survive and hold their own very well. i throw
                  turnips, mustards and radishes, onions etc. along with the other type
                  seeds and they germinate well, plus you can pull some of these when
                  they go to seed in the spring and use the holes for tomatoes,
                  broccoli, etc. it's like they play the same role as weeds in picking
                  the best sunny spot to grow, so it takes the guess work out of it. you
                  have to watch nature to know what to do, when and where to do it. you
                  will make mistakes, and at times it will be confusing. if you get
                  overwhelmed, just wait awhile and study the situation. try to do only
                  the one small action that will make it work right. slashing openings
                  into the existing cover is easier and more natural than mulching
                  everything.

                  sorry if i couldn't explain it very well. but it does work.
                  the thing is, you can't be too concerned with appearances, even though
                  over time it looks good, because you are cutting out the "ugly" weeds
                  and the surrounding grasses form a meadow-like appearance. if you live
                  in a picky neighborhood where they mow everything, sometimes you can
                  disguise your natural garden from the outside, such as putting a
                  fence around it, which you will need anyway if deer come through your
                  property. i have an easy tension deerfence that i made using 4 ft
                  tomato stake pairs, cut strips of metal fencing placed over the stakes
                  shelf fashion, and fallen tree branches and reeds placed through the
                  metal fencing grid openings. this i erected myself, even though i am
                  not too strong physically. it sounds weird-looking, but it turned out
                  very rustic-looking, and works well.

                  since it is the planting and maintaining season, i would imagine that
                  dieter and bob are probably busy ouside working right now. they take
                  breaks to farm and then come back to the group when they have more
                  time. i miss them too for their knowledge and consistency, but there
                  are others that will probably come forward to take up the slack.***robin




                  --- In fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com, Inesinlove@... wrote:
                  >
                  > I need some advice how to turn a lawn into a veggie garden without
                  > disturbing the soil. It has been a lawn for a long time and I don't
                  think the soil is
                  > very good. I don't see a lot of other species in the grass.
                  > Thanks Ines
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > **************Need a new ride? Check out the largest site for U.S.
                  used car
                  > listings at AOL Autos.
                  > (http://autos.aol.com/used?NCID=aolcmp00300000002851)
                  >
                  >
                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  >
                • Pat D
                  I once heard that cardboard has glue in it. Anyone else know any danger of using cardboard or newspaper? Pat David Keltie wrote:
                  Message 8 of 13 , May 1, 2008
                    I once heard that cardboard has glue in it. Anyone else know any danger of using cardboard or newspaper?
                    Pat

                    David Keltie <david.keltie@...> wrote: To help kill the grass underneath the straw, I use cardboard or
                    newspaper (thick 20 pages or so) as a first layer. I push back the
                    straw, then use a knife to open a small hole and plant into that
                    pushing the straw back into place.

                    Works for me.

                    David

                    On Wed, Apr 30, 2008 at 1:26 AM, basjoos <MKTurner7@...> wrote:
                    > --- In fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com, Inesinlove@... wrote:
                    > >
                    > > I need some advice how to turn a lawn into a veggie garden without
                    > > disturbing the soil. It has been a lawn for a long time and I don't
                    > think the soil is
                    > > very good. I don't see a lot of other species in the grass.
                    > > Thanks Ines
                    > >
                    >
                    > One way is to put down a thick enough layer of hay to kill out the
                    > grass (unroll a round bale or lay down overlapping leaves from a square
                    > bale) and add enough manure to the hay to help it start composting.
                    > Then ideally let it sit for a month until all of the grass had died
                    > before planting, altough if you are in a hurry, you can plant large
                    > plants (tomotoes, squash, okra, melons, etc.)through the hay into the
                    > soil under the hay.
                    >
                    >
                    > ------------------------------------
                    >
                    > Yahoo! Groups Links
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >





                    ---------------------------------
                    Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.

                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • Raju Titus
                    Dear friend, In natural way of farming weed is not a problem but it is required for farming.Therefore one should first eliminate thought of killing of
                    Message 9 of 13 , May 1, 2008
                      Dear friend,
                      In natural way of farming weed is not a problem but it is required for
                      farming.Therefore one should first eliminate thought of killing of
                      weed.Killing of weed by any mean is a violent way.Killing of weeds by the
                      cover of cardboard is a method of permaculture.This is not only kills weeds
                      but kills soil also which is a group of microbes.Card board is industrial
                      product having lot of chemicals in it can create pollution.Lawn is a green
                      cover required in farming.
                      Raju


                      On 5/2/08, Pat D <pjd1100@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > I once heard that cardboard has glue in it. Anyone else know any danger
                      > of using cardboard or newspaper?
                      > Pat
                      >
                      > David Keltie <david.keltie@... <david.keltie%40gmail.com>> wrote: To
                      > help kill the grass underneath the straw, I use cardboard or
                      > newspaper (thick 20 pages or so) as a first layer. I push back the
                      > straw, then use a knife to open a small hole and plant into that
                      > pushing the straw back into place.
                      >
                      > Works for me.
                      >
                      > David
                      >
                      > On Wed, Apr 30, 2008 at 1:26 AM, basjoos <MKTurner7@...<MKTurner7%40aol.com>>
                      > wrote:
                      > > --- In fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com<fukuoka_farming%40yahoogroups.com>,
                      > Inesinlove@... wrote:
                      > > >
                      > > > I need some advice how to turn a lawn into a veggie garden without
                      > > > disturbing the soil. It has been a lawn for a long time and I don't
                      > > think the soil is
                      > > > very good. I don't see a lot of other species in the grass.
                      > > > Thanks Ines
                      > > >
                      > >
                      > > One way is to put down a thick enough layer of hay to kill out the
                      > > grass (unroll a round bale or lay down overlapping leaves from a square
                      > > bale) and add enough manure to the hay to help it start composting.
                      > > Then ideally let it sit for a month until all of the grass had died
                      > > before planting, altough if you are in a hurry, you can plant large
                      > > plants (tomotoes, squash, okra, melons, etc.)through the hay into the
                      > > soil under the hay.
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > ------------------------------------
                      > >
                      > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > ---------------------------------
                      > Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it
                      > now.
                      >
                      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      >
                      >
                      >


                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • Linda Shewan
                      Whenever I have used cardboard I have seen an explosion of soil life - but you must wet the ground thoroughly before putting the cardboard down and some green
                      Message 10 of 13 , May 1, 2008
                        Whenever I have used cardboard I have seen an explosion of soil life - but
                        you must wet the ground thoroughly before putting the cardboard down and
                        some green waste under them to rot down and encourage the worms etc is also
                        useful. Yes there is glue in cardboard but newspaper has been given the OK
                        these days. I guess I believe the worms take care of that - as a once off I
                        don't think it will overload the soil. Worms adore both cardboard and
                        newspaper, the covering doesn't allow the soil to dry out and the
                        cardboard/newspaper rapidly breaks down leaving much more friable soil
                        underneath.



                        I agree it is not natural farming but if you have couch or kikuyu or other
                        aggressive running grasses it can sometimes be the only way to get started.



                        Linda



                        From: fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com
                        [mailto:fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Raju Titus
                        Sent: Friday, 2 May 2008 2:50 PM
                        To: fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com
                        Subject: Re: [fukuoka_farming] Re: advice on how to turn a lawn into a
                        veggie garden



                        Dear friend,
                        In natural way of farming weed is not a problem but it is required for
                        farming.Therefore one should first eliminate thought of killing of
                        weed.Killing of weed by any mean is a violent way.Killing of weeds by the
                        cover of cardboard is a method of permaculture.This is not only kills weeds
                        but kills soil also which is a group of microbes.Card board is industrial
                        product having lot of chemicals in it can create pollution.Lawn is a green
                        cover required in farming.
                        Raju

                        On 5/2/08, Pat D <pjd1100@... <mailto:pjd1100%40yahoo.com> > wrote:
                        >
                        > I once heard that cardboard has glue in it. Anyone else know any danger
                        > of using cardboard or newspaper?
                        > Pat
                        >
                        > David Keltie <david.keltie@... <mailto:david.keltie%40gmail.com>
                        <david.keltie%40gmail.com>> wrote: To
                        > help kill the grass underneath the straw, I use cardboard or
                        > newspaper (thick 20 pages or so) as a first layer. I push back the
                        > straw, then use a knife to open a small hole and plant into that
                        > pushing the straw back into place.
                        >
                        > Works for me.
                        >
                        > David
                        >
                        > On Wed, Apr 30, 2008 at 1:26 AM, basjoos <MKTurner7@...
                        <mailto:MKTurner7%40aol.com> <MKTurner7%40aol.com>>
                        > wrote:
                        > > --- In fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com
                        <mailto:fukuoka_farming%40yahoogroups.com>
                        <fukuoka_farming%40yahoogroups.com>,
                        > Inesinlove@... wrote:
                        > > >
                        > > > I need some advice how to turn a lawn into a veggie garden without
                        > > > disturbing the soil. It has been a lawn for a long time and I don't
                        > > think the soil is
                        > > > very good. I don't see a lot of other species in the grass.
                        > > > Thanks Ines
                        > > >
                        > >
                        > > One way is to put down a thick enough layer of hay to kill out the
                        > > grass (unroll a round bale or lay down overlapping leaves from a square
                        > > bale) and add enough manure to the hay to help it start composting.
                        > > Then ideally let it sit for a month until all of the grass had died
                        > > before planting, altough if you are in a hurry, you can plant large
                        > > plants (tomotoes, squash, okra, melons, etc.)through the hay into the
                        > > soil under the hay.
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > ------------------------------------
                        > >
                        > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > ---------------------------------
                        > Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it
                        > now.
                        >
                        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        >
                        >
                        >

                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • George.com
                        I have used, and seen used, old wool carpet and felt (hessian type) carpet underlay. rob ... From: Linda Shewan To: fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com Sent:
                        Message 11 of 13 , May 2, 2008
                          I have used, and seen used, old wool carpet and felt (hessian type) carpet underlay.

                          rob

                          ----- Original Message -----
                          From: Linda Shewan
                          To: fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com
                          Sent: Friday, May 02, 2008 6:46 PM
                          Subject: RE: [fukuoka_farming] Re: advice on how to turn a lawn into a veggie garden


                          Whenever I have used cardboard I have seen an explosion of soil life - but
                          you must wet the ground thoroughly before putting the cardboard down and
                          some green waste under them to rot down and encourage the worms etc is also
                          useful. Yes there is glue in cardboard but newspaper has been given the OK
                          these days. I guess I believe the worms take care of that - as a once off I
                          don't think it will overload the soil. Worms adore both cardboard and
                          newspaper, the covering doesn't allow the soil to dry out and the
                          cardboard/newspaper rapidly breaks down leaving much more friable soil
                          underneath.

                          I agree it is not natural farming but if you have couch or kikuyu or other
                          aggressive running grasses it can sometimes be the only way to get started.

                          Linda

                          From: fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com
                          [mailto:fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Raju Titus
                          Sent: Friday, 2 May 2008 2:50 PM
                          To: fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com
                          Subject: Re: [fukuoka_farming] Re: advice on how to turn a lawn into a
                          veggie garden

                          Dear friend,
                          In natural way of farming weed is not a problem but it is required for
                          farming.Therefore one should first eliminate thought of killing of
                          weed.Killing of weed by any mean is a violent way.Killing of weeds by the
                          cover of cardboard is a method of permaculture.This is not only kills weeds
                          but kills soil also which is a group of microbes.Card board is industrial
                          product having lot of chemicals in it can create pollution.Lawn is a green
                          cover required in farming.
                          Raju

                          On 5/2/08, Pat D <pjd1100@... <mailto:pjd1100%40yahoo.com> > wrote:
                          >
                          > I once heard that cardboard has glue in it. Anyone else know any danger
                          > of using cardboard or newspaper?
                          > Pat
                          >
                          > David Keltie <david.keltie@... <mailto:david.keltie%40gmail.com>
                          <david.keltie%40gmail.com>> wrote: To
                          > help kill the grass underneath the straw, I use cardboard or
                          > newspaper (thick 20 pages or so) as a first layer. I push back the
                          > straw, then use a knife to open a small hole and plant into that
                          > pushing the straw back into place.
                          >
                          > Works for me.
                          >
                          > David
                          >
                          > On Wed, Apr 30, 2008 at 1:26 AM, basjoos <MKTurner7@...
                          <mailto:MKTurner7%40aol.com> <MKTurner7%40aol.com>>
                          > wrote:
                          > > --- In fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com
                          <mailto:fukuoka_farming%40yahoogroups.com>
                          <fukuoka_farming%40yahoogroups.com>,
                          > Inesinlove@... wrote:
                          > > >
                          > > > I need some advice how to turn a lawn into a veggie garden without
                          > > > disturbing the soil. It has been a lawn for a long time and I don't
                          > > think the soil is
                          > > > very good. I don't see a lot of other species in the grass.
                          > > > Thanks Ines
                          > > >
                          > >
                          > > One way is to put down a thick enough layer of hay to kill out the
                          > > grass (unroll a round bale or lay down overlapping leaves from a square
                          > > bale) and add enough manure to the hay to help it start composting.
                          > > Then ideally let it sit for a month until all of the grass had died
                          > > before planting, altough if you are in a hurry, you can plant large
                          > > plants (tomotoes, squash, okra, melons, etc.)through the hay into the
                          > > soil under the hay.
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > ------------------------------------
                          > >
                          > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > ---------------------------------
                          > Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it
                          > now.
                          >
                          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          >
                          >
                          >

                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






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                        • Golden Love
                          I have found that using cardboard encourages micro organisms and the health of soil. Where I have used cardboard and wood chips from tree companies in my area,
                          Message 12 of 13 , May 3, 2008
                            I have found that using cardboard encourages micro organisms and the health
                            of soil. Where I have used cardboard and wood chips from tree companies in
                            my area, the soil on these properties has been transformed. The mycelium
                            that develops from mushrooms takes care of any toxins.



                            Golden Love

                            Love's Gardens

                            "Your neighborhood solar-powered gardener" (TM)

                            California Licensed Contractor C27 363672

                            127 National St.

                            Santa Cruz, CA 95060

                            Phone (831) 471-9100

                            Fax ( 831) 471-9200

                            goldenlove@...



                            _____

                            From: fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com
                            [mailto:fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Raju Titus
                            Sent: Thursday, May 01, 2008 9:50 PM
                            To: fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com
                            Subject: Re: [fukuoka_farming] Re: advice on how to turn a lawn into a
                            veggie garden



                            Dear friend,
                            In natural way of farming weed is not a problem but it is required for
                            farming.Therefore one should first eliminate thought of killing of
                            weed.Killing of weed by any mean is a violent way.Killing of weeds by the
                            cover of cardboard is a method of permaculture.This is not only kills weeds
                            but kills soil also which is a group of microbes.Card board is industrial
                            product having lot of chemicals in it can create pollution.Lawn is a green
                            cover required in farming.
                            Raju

                            On 5/2/08, Pat D <pjd1100@yahoo. <mailto:pjd1100%40yahoo.com> com> wrote:
                            >
                            > I once heard that cardboard has glue in it. Anyone else know any danger
                            > of using cardboard or newspaper?
                            > Pat
                            >
                            > David Keltie <david.keltie@ <mailto:david.keltie%40gmail.com> gmail.com
                            <david.keltie%40gmail.com>> wrote: To
                            > help kill the grass underneath the straw, I use cardboard or
                            > newspaper (thick 20 pages or so) as a first layer. I push back the
                            > straw, then use a knife to open a small hole and plant into that
                            > pushing the straw back into place.
                            >
                            > Works for me.
                            >
                            > David
                            >
                            > On Wed, Apr 30, 2008 at 1:26 AM, basjoos <MKTurner7@aol.
                            <mailto:MKTurner7%40aol.com> com<MKTurner7%40aol.com>>
                            > wrote:
                            > > --- In fukuoka_farming@ <mailto:fukuoka_farming%40yahoogroups.com>
                            yahoogroups.com<fukuoka_farming%40yahoogroups.com>,
                            > Inesinlove@... wrote:
                            > > >
                            > > > I need some advice how to turn a lawn into a veggie garden without
                            > > > disturbing the soil. It has been a lawn for a long time and I don't
                            > > think the soil is
                            > > > very good. I don't see a lot of other species in the grass.
                            > > > Thanks Ines
                            > > >
                            > >
                            > > One way is to put down a thick enough layer of hay to kill out the
                            > > grass (unroll a round bale or lay down overlapping leaves from a square
                            > > bale) and add enough manure to the hay to help it start composting.
                            > > Then ideally let it sit for a month until all of the grass had died
                            > > before planting, altough if you are in a hurry, you can plant large
                            > > plants (tomotoes, squash, okra, melons, etc.)through the hay into the
                            > > soil under the hay.
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > ------------------------------------
                            > >
                            > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > ---------------------------------
                            > Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it
                            > now.
                            >
                            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            >
                            >
                            >

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