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Re: Diamond.... and the Agricultural sin

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  • Jeff
    For those interested in these issues.. So also: Against the Grain by Richard Manning... a great book, despite being over-shadowed by Diamond s award wining
    Message 1 of 4 , Mar 2, 2008
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      For those interested in these issues..
      So also: Against the Grain by Richard Manning...
      a great book, despite being over-shadowed by Diamond's award wining
      modern classic.
      Diamond's new book, Collapse also provides threads related....

      THere have been hunter-gather populations with deep class divisions:
      Specifically, the acorn harvesters on coastal California and the
      Salmon people of Coastal Washington. THese of course are two
      hunter-gathering society that required storage of an overly abundant
      seasonal food source. Perhaps it is the storage of primary food that
      leads to class divisions.....

      And interestingly, one of the pre-incan civilizations had a
      agricultual mixed community with very weak class divisions, and the
      anthropoligist credit it with an advanced society with no hunger.

      At this point, above and beyond social divisions brought forth with
      agriculture., I see the neo-coporate world as even more derisive.

      CEO's who make more in a day than their underlings make in a year, and
      salaries that are not linked to productivity or performance in any
      way.. ie severance packages for fired executives.....
      And their increasing control over minutia of everday life...

      In the context of Joel Salatin's EVERYTHING I WANT TO DO IS ILLEGAL,
      in many respects it's illegal to step outside of the corporate frame
      work in the developed world....
      while I support European Unions protections for artisan products, at
      the same time it debilitates others from sealing similar products..
      So if I have 'parmasean' style cheese and I don't live in Parma.. what
      do I actually call my cheese>??.. While I respect and agree with the
      protections granted to the Parma cheese makers, their must be an
      alternative language for those selling a very similar product....

      I've been thinking.... here in the US we could really benefit largely
      from an ARTISAN label as well, ei small scale value added producers
      that can't meet the rigorous demands of the usda, but can easily meet
      scientific standards for cleanliness under alternative models of
      production...

      Ihave a strong sense that local food will be the next "organic", a
      system to encourage this would be helpful...
      and more importantly, what have these consetious producers learned
      from the organic label debacle....

      >
      > Besides malnutrition, starvation, and epidemic diseases, farming
      > helped bring another curse upon humanity: deep class divisions. Hunter-
      > gatherers have little or no stored food, and no concentrated food
      > sources, like an orchard or a herd of cows: they live off the wild
      > plants and animals they obtain each day. Therefore, there can be no
      > kings, no class of social parasites who grow fat on food seized from
      > others.
      > It is true but is it going to happen ever?
      > --- In fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com, "macropneuma"
      > <macropneuma@> wrote:
      > >
      > > http://ecr.lausd.k12.ca.us/staff/fbeerstein/Diamond,%20The%20Worst%
      > 20Mistake.doc
      > >
      >
    • Dieter Brand
      ... This debate has been raging in Germany for years. It is more political than real and primarily driven by a culture of envy. Before an election, political
      Message 2 of 4 , Mar 2, 2008
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        > CEO's who make more in a day than their underlings ...

        This debate has been raging in Germany for years. It is more political
        than real and primarily driven by a "culture of envy." Before an election,
        political parties will suddenly, after 7 years in office, propose a special
        tax for the rich without saying how much such a move would bring to the
        public coffers. After the election, this is quickly forgotten since anybody
        who understands anything knows full well that such a tax doesn't bring
        any significant new tax income and is more likely than not to motivate
        those who are in a position to do so to put their money elsewhere.

        >In the context of Joel Salatin's EVERYTHING I WANT TO DO IS ILLEGAL,
        >in many respects it's illegal to step outside of the corporate frame
        >work in the developed world....

        Ah, it's the corporate bad guys again!? From the piece by Joel that
        was circulated on the web under the same title I think it has more to
        do with burocracies and our society's demand on politics to provide
        for each and every mishap the can occur during our lifetime, which
        invariably leads to a regulated society that prohibits everything I
        want to do too.

        >while I support European Unions protections for artisan products, at
        >the same time it debilitates others from sealing similar products..

        German beer, French wines, Italian cheese and many other local
        products have a tradition that reaches back hundreds of years.
        Why destroy such traditions in the name of free trade?
        Companies are known to have created new brands.

        >Ihave a strong sense that local food will be the next "organic", a
        >system to encourage this would be helpful...

        It's been in the news for some time and protectionist politicians
        are bound to jump on the bandwagon. There is no reason to
        assume that it would be easier to regulate local than to certify
        organic.

        And as Confucius said, if there is a way around it the trickster
        will find it in no time (The Banalects, Vol. 3, Chapter 5, Paragraph
        7.2)

        Dieter



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