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Re: [fukuoka_farming] NO FRTILIZER.

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  • Sergio Montinola
    Dear Raju, Your statement the composting of organic materials is fundamentally useless. --RajuTitus is equally useless to the modern world that suffers
    Message 1 of 10 , Feb 6, 2008
      Dear Raju,

      Your statement "the composting of organic materials is fundamentally useless.
      --RajuTitus" is equally "useless" to the modern world that suffers from the problem of garbabe?

      Please give us your usefull suggestion on how to dispose usefully of municipal garbage? .

      Serge Montinola
      Philippines


      Raju Titus <rajuktitus@...> wrote:
      Composting of organic materials is fundamentally useless.: Fukuoka
      Dear friends,
      There is lot of difference in organic and natural way of
      farming. Organic farming based on organic fertilizer and natural
      farming is based on no fertilizer. See what Fukuoka is saying.
      "Natural way of farming" page no-111.
      Fertilizer Was Never needed to Begin With: Let us consider the farmer
      as he clears a forest and plant fruit trees. He fells the trees in the
      forest and carries them off as logs, taking the branches and leaves as
      well. Than he digs deep into the earth, pulling up the roots of trees
      and grasses, which he burns. Next, he turns the soil over and over
      again to loosen it up. But in so doing, he destroys the physical
      structure of the soil After pounding and kneading the soil again and
      again like bread dough, he drives out air and the humus so essential
      to microorganisms, reducing it to a yellow mineral barren of life. He
      than plants fruit saplings in the now lifeless soil, adds fertilizer,
      and attempts to grow fruit trees entirely through human forces.
      At agriculture research centers fertilizer is added to potted
      soil devoid of life and nutrients. The effect is like sprinkling water
      on dry soil : the trees thrive on the fertilizer nutrients. Naturally,
      researchers report this as evidence of the remarkable effectiveness of
      the fertilizer. The farmer simulates the laboratory procedure by
      carefully clearing the land of all plant matter and killing the soil
      in the field , than applying fertilizer. He too notes the same
      startling results and is pleased with what he sees.
      The poor farmer has taken the long way around. Although I would
      not call fertilizers totally useless, the fact is that nature provides
      us with all the fertilizers we need. Crops grow very well without
      chemical fertilizers. Since ancient times, rock outcroppings on the
      earth have been battered by the elements, first into boulders,
      grasses, and eventually great, towering trees, the land became buried
      under a mantle of rich soil.
      The no-fertilizer principle does not say that fertilizers are
      worthless, but that there is no need to apply chemical fertilizers.
      Scientific technology for applying fertilizers is basically pointless
      for the same reason. Yet research on the preparation and use of
      organic composts, which are much closer to nature, appears at first
      glance to be of value.
      When compost such as straw, grasses and trees, or seaweeds is
      applied directly to a field, it takes a while for this to decompose
      and trigger a fertilizer response in the crops. This is because
      microbes help themselves to the available nitrogen in the soil,
      creating a temporary nitrogen deficiency that initially starves the
      crops of needed nitrogen. In organic farming, therefore, these
      materials are fermented and used as prepared compost, giving a safe,
      effective fertilizer.
      All the trouble taken during preparation of the compost to
      speed up the rate of fertilizer response, such as frequent turning of
      pile, methods for stimulating the growth of aerobic bacteria, the
      addition of water and nitrogenous fertilizers, lime, superphosphate,
      rice bran, manure, so forth—all this is taken just for a slight
      acceleration in response. Because the net effect of these effort is to
      speed up decomposition by at most ten to twenty percent, this can
      hardly be called necessary, especially since there already was a
      method of applying straw that achieved outstanding results.
      The logic that rejects grassed fields, green manure, and the
      direct application and plowing under of human wastes and livestock
      manure changes with time and circumstances. Given the right condition,
      these may be effective. But no fertilizer method is absolute. The
      surest way to solve the problem is to apply a method that adapts to
      the circumstances and follow nature.
      I firmly believe that, while compost it self is not without
      value, the composting of organic materials is fundamentally useless.

      --RajuTitus
      Natural farmer of India



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    • dcw338
      ... of municipal garbage? . ... Why not burn it and use the BTU s? then filter the carbon ash and use for other applications? there is some of this being
      Message 2 of 10 , Feb 6, 2008
        >> Please give us your usefull suggestion on how to dispose usefully
        of municipal garbage? .
        >
        > Serge Montinola
        > Philippines


        Why not burn it and use the BTU's? then filter the carbon ash and use
        for other applications? there is some of this being done in the US.
      • Jeff
        ... Burning trash is highly problematic, it releases toxic gases, and other gases that cause smog and global warming. (hydrocarbons and nitrous oxides), the
        Message 3 of 10 , Feb 6, 2008
          --- In fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com, "dcw338" <gpp@...> wrote:
          >
          > >> Please give us your usefull suggestion on how to dispose usefully
          > of municipal garbage? .
          > >
          > > Serge Montinola
          > > Philippines
          >
          >
          > Why not burn it and use the BTU's? then filter the carbon ash and use
          > for other applications? there is some of this being done in the US.
          >
          Burning trash is highly problematic, it releases toxic gases, and
          other gases that cause smog and global warming. (hydrocarbons and
          nitrous oxides), the toxics com from plastics, magazine print, and
          other containers. Also, a regular fire is not hot enough to burn the
          trash effectively, further more much municipal garabage is too wet to
          burn and must be dried (using energy) before burning.

          Definitely not something appropriate for the backyard enthusist.

          the plants in the us are being shut down,or replaced with plasma arc
          burning that takes place at a high enough temperature to render the
          trash 'clean'.
        • Sergio Montinola
          Dear Jeff, Burning garbage in the US is one of the worst thing you can do. The environment and the world will suffer in the long run. Hard to believe the US is
          Message 4 of 10 , Feb 6, 2008
            Dear Jeff,

            Burning garbage in the US is one of the worst thing you can do. The environment and the world will suffer in the long run. Hard to believe the US is so backward when it comes to garbage?

            Serge Montinola

            Jeff <shultonus@...> wrote:
            --- In fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com, "dcw338" <gpp@...> wrote:
            >
            > >> Please give us your usefull suggestion on how to dispose usefully
            > of municipal garbage? .
            > >
            > > Serge Montinola
            > > Philippines
            >
            >
            > Why not burn it and use the BTU's? then filter the carbon ash and use
            > for other applications? there is some of this being done in the US.
            >
            Burning trash is highly problematic, it releases toxic gases, and
            other gases that cause smog and global warming. (hydrocarbons and
            nitrous oxides), the toxics com from plastics, magazine print, and
            other containers. Also, a regular fire is not hot enough to burn the
            trash effectively, further more much municipal garabage is too wet to
            burn and must be dried (using energy) before burning.

            Definitely not something appropriate for the backyard enthusist.

            the plants in the us are being shut down,or replaced with plasma arc
            burning that takes place at a high enough temperature to render the
            trash 'clean'.






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          • Anders Skarlind
            Raju, I understand biodynamic farming has some success in India, and also improves the soil. This is a system that uses compost wisely. But alas, I haven t
            Message 5 of 10 , Feb 6, 2008
              Raju,
              I understand biodynamic farming has some success in India, and also
              improves the soil. This is a system that uses compost wisely. But
              alas, I haven't been there. I have only listened to one lecture by an
              Indian BD farmer and promoter, Jakes Jayakaran, and another with some
              Swedish BD students who visited India.

              Compost in the sense I think of it is not primarily a fertiliser.
              Even though compost has some direct fertilising effects, I think
              quality compost should be though of mainly as a regulating and
              soil-improving amendment. A healthy soil may need very little
              compost, or even none at all. But most soils today I think benefit
              much from it.

              The mentioning of raw milk in another post is also interesting. One
              biodynamic spray for apple trees is diluted milk and something more.
              (Was it honey?) At least two prominent developers biodynamic method,
              Hugo Erbe and Enzo Nastati, have devised sparying of grape juice. The
              grape juice is first stirred with some biodynamic preparations, and
              then sprayed. Also spraying of molasses with fertiliser or similar
              come to mind.

              Kind regards
              Anders Skarlind, Sweden

              At 13:17 2008-02-06, you wrote:
              >Composting of organic materials is fundamentally useless.: Fukuoka
              >Dear friends,
              > There is lot of difference in organic and natural way of
              >farming. Organic farming based on organic fertilizer and natural
              >farming is based on no fertilizer. See what Fukuoka is saying.
              >"Natural way of farming" page no-111.
              >Fertilizer Was Never needed to Begin With: Let us consider the farmer
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