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Re: [fukuoka_farming] Re: Chickens???

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  • Garth & Kim Travis
    Greetings, You bring up many good points, and I wish I could just let my animals run, but then they would be in the county lock up, not running free. We have
    Message 1 of 24 , Feb 1, 2008
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      Greetings,
      You bring up many good points, and I wish I could just let my animals
      run, but then they would be in the county lock up, not running free. We
      have too many people and all the land is owned. We also have neighbors
      that think it is funny when their animals kill yours. Stupid man,
      didn't think his dogs would kill his own calves when they were born. I
      feel sorry for all his animals, especially his dogs.

      I know many people that raise animals for consumption that are doing it
      for the same reasons I do, and in much the same way. We go as natural
      as possible in a confused world, with strange laws.

      While I respect Fukuoka-san, he was Oriental. His heredity was very
      different from mine, we all not all the same. His pancreas was probably
      twice the size of mine, if our bodies were the same size, due to
      hereditary diet. I am aware than many people do very well on a
      vegetarian diet, and some on a vegan diet provided they take their pills
      for the B vitamins. [I think that is the right one.] I don't eat meat
      at every meal, I never sit down to a 16 ounce steak or any other overly
      done nonsense. I do eat meat most days, or animal protein. For my body
      type, this is good for me and I am much healthier for it. But my
      ancestors lived on a diet that was mostly animal protein. My snacks and
      at least 2/3 of my meals are vegetables, grains and fruit. I do not
      eat processed food at all.

      I would urge people to eat clean, naturally raised food that is
      compatible with their heredity. A well balanced diet including meat can
      be very healthy, if that is what an individuals body needs. If one has
      a different heredity than me, of course their body is a bit different.
      This is why all blood work comes with ranges that are good, not exact
      numbers, our bodies are not exactly the same.

      Bright Blessings,
      Kim

      robin wrote:
      >
      >> i think what fukuoka-san is trying to say is in order to raise natural
      > chickens or other fowl, they should not be confined in any way. in
      > fact, he wrote
      >
      > "if poultry and livestock are to truly benefit man, they must be
      > capable of feeding and fending for themselves under the open sky. only
      > then will food become naturally plentiful and contribute to man's
      > well-being".
      >
      > fukuoka-san had chickens and ducks and let them grow up among the
      > vegetables
      > and grains and revert back to half-wild. when he could no longer keep
      > them in that way because of a highway, he stopped keeping them.
      >
      > in regard to meat-eating, fukuoka-san wrote of an application his
      > friend george ohsawaw had worked out;
      >
      > "meat is yang and vegetables yin, with grains in between. because man
      > is an omnivorous animal that is yang, this leads to a set of
      > principles which says that, when grains, which are intermediate, are
      > eaten as the staple, yin vegetables should be consumed and meat (very
      > yang)--consumption of which is essentially cannabalism--should be
      > avoided."
      >
      > yet fukuoka-san was more tolerant and neutral than that. although
      > completely or mainly
      > vegetarian himself, he did not delve into scientific analysis about
      > it, considering such an analysis pointed away from non-active nature
      > and into discriminating knowledge. i guess that's my cue to follow his
      > lead.
      >
      > ***robin***
      >
      > p.s.after all my words going on and on i found a quote that says it all;
      >
      > find the shortest, simplest way between the earth, the hands, and the
      > mouth.---lanza del vasto
      >
      >
      >
    • Dieter Brand
      Nobody needs to make excuses for including meat in his or her diet. But I don t believe that heredity or the dietary habits of one s ancestors necessarily
      Message 2 of 24 , Feb 2, 2008
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        Nobody needs to make excuses for including meat in his or
        her diet. But I don't believe that heredity or the dietary habits
        of one's ancestors necessarily serve to define good life style
        patterns for the present or future.

        What is significant in the life style of primitive man/woman
        on this planet is not that he/she also ate meat but that they
        didn't eat anything at all for extended periods of time. And
        when a sumptuous meal could be consumed this was done
        at the expense of a considerable amount of physical labour.
        Today, that has dramatically changed, and our dietary habits
        have to change accordingly. The sedentary office worker can
        without any labour at all stuff him/her-self with big chunks of
        meat from morning till evening. And I have seen too many
        overweight men that didn't make it passed their 50th birthday.

        If we feel a desire to eat meat, that is not necessarily because
        our body sends us subtle messages regarding it's nutritional
        needs, that is more often than not on the same level as the craving
        for the next cigarette or a bar of chocolate. Now, I hope nobody
        will claim that his/her ancestors lived primarily on chocolate.

        Dieter Brand
        Portugal

        Garth & Kim Travis <gartht@...> wrote:
        Greetings,
        You bring up many good points, and I wish I could just let my animals
        run, but then they would be in the county lock up, not running free. We
        have too many people and all the land is owned. We also have neighbors
        that think it is funny when their animals kill yours. Stupid man,
        didn't think his dogs would kill his own calves when they were born. I
        feel sorry for all his animals, especially his dogs.

        I know many people that raise animals for consumption that are doing it
        for the same reasons I do, and in much the same way. We go as natural
        as possible in a confused world, with strange laws.

        While I respect Fukuoka-san, he was Oriental. His heredity was very
        different from mine, we all not all the same. His pancreas was probably
        twice the size of mine, if our bodies were the same size, due to
        hereditary diet. I am aware than many people do very well on a
        vegetarian diet, and some on a vegan diet provided they take their pills
        for the B vitamins. [I think that is the right one.] I don't eat meat
        at every meal, I never sit down to a 16 ounce steak or any other overly
        done nonsense. I do eat meat most days, or animal protein. For my body
        type, this is good for me and I am much healthier for it. But my
        ancestors lived on a diet that was mostly animal protein. My snacks and
        at least 2/3 of my meals are vegetables, grains and fruit. I do not
        eat processed food at all.

        I would urge people to eat clean, naturally raised food that is
        compatible with their heredity. A well balanced diet including meat can
        be very healthy, if that is what an individuals body needs. If one has
        a different heredity than me, of course their body is a bit different.
        This is why all blood work comes with ranges that are good, not exact
        numbers, our bodies are not exactly the same.

        Bright Blessings,
        Kim

        robin wrote:
        >
        >> i think what fukuoka-san is trying to say is in order to raise natural
        > chickens or other fowl, they should not be confined in any way. in
        > fact, he wrote
        >
        > "if poultry and livestock are to truly benefit man, they must be
        > capable of feeding and fending for themselves under the open sky. only
        > then will food become naturally plentiful and contribute to man's
        > well-being".
        >
        > fukuoka-san had chickens and ducks and let them grow up among the
        > vegetables
        > and grains and revert back to half-wild. when he could no longer keep
        > them in that way because of a highway, he stopped keeping them.
        >
        > in regard to meat-eating, fukuoka-san wrote of an application his
        > friend george ohsawaw had worked out;
        >
        > "meat is yang and vegetables yin, with grains in between. because man
        > is an omnivorous animal that is yang, this leads to a set of
        > principles which says that, when grains, which are intermediate, are
        > eaten as the staple, yin vegetables should be consumed and meat (very
        > yang)--consumption of which is essentially cannabalism--should be
        > avoided."
        >
        > yet fukuoka-san was more tolerant and neutral than that. although
        > completely or mainly
        > vegetarian himself, he did not delve into scientific analysis about
        > it, considering such an analysis pointed away from non-active nature
        > and into discriminating knowledge. i guess that's my cue to follow his
        > lead.
        >
        > ***robin***
        >
        > p.s.after all my words going on and on i found a quote that says it all;
        >
        > find the shortest, simplest way between the earth, the hands, and the
        > mouth.---lanza del vasto
        >
        >
        >





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      • basjoos
        ... In One Straw Revolution , Fukuoka-san mentions that Japanese farmers used to keep a breed of chicken that was safe to keep in the vegetable garden. It
        Message 3 of 24 , Apr 27, 2008
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          --- In fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com, "Ben Weiss" <bazzrad@...> wrote:
          >
          > My understanding of chickens in a natural system is incredibly basic!
          > Can you recommend to me any specific breeds that are good for a
          > garden? How can I prevent the chickens from eating our produce? I
          > just read briefly about creating a "forage garden" for the chickens...
          > know anything about this? Should they have a specific enclosure and be
          > released at certain times? Any advice on a good egg-laying breed?... a
          > low-maintenance breed?
          >
          > Thanks!
          > Ben
          >

          In "One Straw Revolution", Fukuoka-san mentions that Japanese farmers
          used to keep a breed of chicken that was safe to keep in the vegetable
          garden. It would eat the insects and leave the crop plants alone. I'm
          wondering if this breed was the "shamo" chickens that he had running
          loose in his orchard/vegetable garden. The shamo is a very small
          bantam chicken.

          In the book "Farmers of Fourty Centuries" where the author describes
          the agricultural system in China circa 1900 (a very good read if you
          are into composting, as he describes the techniques used by the Chinese
          to keep their fields fertile after up to 4000 years of cultivation), he
          mentions that the sheep, goats, and cattle in the parts of China that
          he visited (the densely populated coastal regions) don't eat the crop
          plants even if they get pushed off the narrow paths and into a crop
          field by other traffic and confine their grazing to grasses and plants
          in non-crop fields. I suspect this behavior is the result of centuries
          of culling those animals that would help themselves to the crop when
          given the opportunity. So it may also be true that Chinese chicken and
          duck breeds have this trait (if they haven't been kept and non-
          selectively bred in this country for long enough to have lost it).

          It might be worthwhile testing some Japanese chicken breeds such as
          shamo, kurokashiwa, and tomaru, and Chinese breeds such as langshan,
          brahma, and nanking, to see if they show a propensity toward eating
          vegetable plants if given the opportunity.
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