Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Re: [fukuoka_farming] Re: Regarding White Ant problem.

Expand Messages
  • monica kumar
    hii, im monica.i would like to cultivate vanilla in my garden.can u tell me some information about its cultivation? ... From: Dieter Brand
    Message 1 of 16 , Jan 3, 2008
    • 0 Attachment
      hii,
      im monica.i would like to cultivate vanilla in my garden.can u tell me some information about its cultivation?



      ----- Original Message ----
      From: Dieter Brand <diebrand@...>
      To: fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Thursday, 3 January, 2008 4:22:51 PM
      Subject: Re: [fukuoka_farming] Re: Regarding White Ant problem.

      > It would be interesting to see what happened to Dieter's 30 acres
      > before the ants arrived, but we might never know the cause of the ants
      > being there.

      We live in a age of communication in which information arrives everywhere
      instantaneously and all the time without respite.

      On the downside, most don't bother to read other peoples comments or
      to try and understand what they mean. Most are mainly interested in
      picking out fragments to broadcast their own received ideas. The above
      is an excellent example illustrating this point. I have clearly explained
      why there are ants in one place and not in another based on first hand
      experience for over 10 years. I don't think, I can make it any clearer.

      To "have a theory" based on something one has read on Google or
      someplace else and to "have practical experience" are two very different
      things.

      The often repeated idea that "nature will fix all" is only applicable if we
      view the land without people. People need to eat, hence they need to
      intervene to grow food since most of us have a digestive track different
      from that of cows who are able to live on grass and weeds (in most
      places even cows can't survive without a little help from us humans).

      Patty, Calin et al., I'm not picking on you, I'm sure you mean well.
      I'm just commenting in a general way on a line of thought that keeps
      on popping up on many EcAg groups and most of all on this list,
      and which I feel is not helpful in solving the practical problems of
      those who try to put natural farming or other types of alternative
      farming methods into praxis.

      Today, 60 years after Fukuoka first developed his type of natural
      farming, 30 years after it was first published and more than 5 years
      after this group was set up to try and discuss the adoption of
      natural farming to different environments, Natural Farming, for
      all intents and practical purposes, might as well not exist as
      a way of growing food to feed people. Why is that? I believe
      the tendency to put "ideas" above "practice" has something
      to do with it.

      Do comment if you disagree (also if you agree), you are even
      welcome to pick my statements to pieces to argue your point,
      we all do. But it may not be a mistake to try and understand
      the point I'm trying to make.

      Dieter Brand
      Portugal


      ------------ --------- --------- ---
      Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search.

      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





      Now you can chat without downloading messenger. Go to http://in.messenger.yahoo.com/webmessengerpromo.php

      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Dieter Brand
      ... Jamie, I guess we just have to agree to disagree on this one, if words are to have a meaning then natural farming is farming, is farming, is ... And no
      Message 2 of 16 , Jan 3, 2008
      • 0 Attachment
        > ... Fukuoka_Farming is not about farming at all ... (snip)

        Jamie,

        I guess we just have to agree to disagree on this one, if words
        are to have a meaning then natural farming is farming, is farming,
        is ... And no matter what interpretation we may attribute to some
        of Fukuoka's words, the man grew his food by an ingenious method
        developed in years of meticulous and painstaking efforts.

        If you decide that farming is not for you, that is quite alright, nobody
        is forced to become a farmer. But those without actual experience
        of growing their own food usually do not appreciate the difficulties
        involved. It is all too easy for city folks to criticize farmers for the way
        they work.

        Best wishes
        Dieter

        PS: No use complaining about disembodied forums, it is up to
        us to embody. But obviously, it takes at least two to dialogue.



        ---------------------------------
        Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.

        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Jamie Nicol
        Dear Dieter, Fukuoka used what he called a methodless method and he came to it not through human ingenuity but by letting go all knowledge. It is true that I
        Message 3 of 16 , Jan 3, 2008
        • 0 Attachment
          Dear Dieter, Fukuoka used what he called a 'methodless method' and he came
          to it not through human ingenuity but by letting go all knowledge.

          It is true that I am not a farmer, although I farm (or is that garden? When
          does a gardener become a farmer?)

          Words will always miss their target because they 'thing' the world and what
          I'm trying to express is no 'thing' at all.
          This is as true of a book as it is of an email discussion as it is of a
          finger pointing at the moon.

          Jamie
          Mas Franch and Souscayrous


          On 1/3/08, Dieter Brand <diebrand@...> wrote:
          >
          > > ... Fukuoka_Farming is not about farming at all ... (snip)
          >
          > Jamie,
          >
          > I guess we just have to agree to disagree on this one, if words
          > are to have a meaning then natural farming is farming, is farming,
          > is ... And no matter what interpretation we may attribute to some
          > of Fukuoka's words, the man grew his food by an ingenious method
          > developed in years of meticulous and painstaking efforts.
          >
          > If you decide that farming is not for you, that is quite alright, nobody
          > is forced to become a farmer. But those without actual experience
          > of growing their own food usually do not appreciate the difficulties
          > involved. It is all too easy for city folks to criticize farmers for the
          > way
          > they work.
          >
          > Best wishes
          > Dieter
          >
          > PS: No use complaining about disembodied forums, it is up to
          > us to embody. But obviously, it takes at least two to dialogue.
          >
          >
          > ---------------------------------
          > Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it
          > now.
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
          >
          >


          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Lawrence
          ... Dieter Brand wrote: I guess we just have to agree to disagree on this one, if words are to have a meaning then natural farming is farming, is farming, is
          Message 4 of 16 , Jan 3, 2008
          • 0 Attachment
            Jamie Nicole wrote:
            > ... Fukuoka_Farming is not about farming at all ... (snip)

            Dieter Brand wrote:
            I guess we just have to agree to disagree on this one, if words
            are to have a meaning then natural farming is farming, is farming,
            is ... And no matter what interpretation we may attribute to some
            of Fukuoka's words, the man grew his food by an ingenious method
            developed in years of meticulous and painstaking efforts.

            You don't have to disagree, just understand that you are talking about the
            same thing from two different perspectives, both of them accurate and valid
            though limited.

            To some, Fukuoka Farming is (or can be) a method for growing food (Dieter's
            perspective). To others it can be a philosophical way of life or approach to
            living that uses growing food as a vehicle or means to achieving a state of
            being more closely in tune with nature and natual processes than might
            otherwise be possible (Jamie's perspective).If I misrepresented either one
            of you in this paragraph I apologize and would welcome correction.

            For those of you who don't know me, I'm the person who set up the Fukuoka
            Farming website (www.fukuokafarmingol.info). Haven't done anything to it for
            quite some time because of matters somewhat unrelated to the topic of the
            website, but I think I'm at a point where I'll be working on it again later
            this month.

            Personally, from what I've seen, heard and experienced I think Fukuoka's
            methods are useful in food production to a point, but only to a point. The
            only farm I know of that used Fukuoka's methods without
            modification/adjustment was Fukuoka's farm, which no longer uses his methods
            because they eventually turned out to be not commercially competitive. The
            work done by Emilia Hazelip and others to adapt/employ his methods to create
            commercially viable market gardens shows more promise for sustained,
            commercial food production. But then so does hydroponics, aquaponics,
            aeroponics, etc.

            I'm going to be changing the website. Probably leave what's there there and
            add other stuff. I'm totally open to suggestions on how to make the website
            more useful. If any of you have any ideas for this then please let me know
            either through this forum or directly at "L at haftl dot com".

            Larry




            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Dieter Brand
            Jamie, methodless method , you like these things, just as you like Meister Eckehart, the dancing Wu-Li Masters (or was that someone else?) and so many other
            Message 5 of 16 , Jan 3, 2008
            • 0 Attachment
              Jamie,

              "methodless method", you like these things, just as you like
              Meister Eckehart, the dancing Wu-Li Masters (or was that
              someone else?) and so many other icons of my distant youth.
              We can throw ko-ans at each other until we drop dead.

              When we caught the ox we can ride on his back to the market
              square, and, in the end forget all about the ox. Then, words
              will again mean what they always meant, farming will be
              farming again.

              Dieter

              Jamie Nicol <souscayrous@...> wrote:
              Dear Dieter, Fukuoka used what he called a 'methodless method' and he came
              to it not through human ingenuity but by letting go all knowledge.

              It is true that I am not a farmer, although I farm (or is that garden? When
              does a gardener become a farmer?)

              Words will always miss their target because they 'thing' the world and what
              I'm trying to express is no 'thing' at all.
              This is as true of a book as it is of an email discussion as it is of a
              finger pointing at the moon.

              Jamie
              Mas Franch and Souscayrous


              Recent Activity

              6
              New Members

              Visit Your Group
              Best of Y! Groups
              Check it out
              and nominate your
              group to be featured.

              Yahoo! Groups
              Parenting Zone
              Share experiences
              with other parents.

              Dog Fanatics
              on Yahoo! Groups
              Find people who are
              crazy about dogs.



              .





              ---------------------------------
              Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.

              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Forest Shomer
              Dieter: Yes, the problem in one word is: Ideology. The mind of the True Believer is so beguiled by concepts that it avoids practical experience that might
              Message 6 of 16 , Jan 3, 2008
              • 0 Attachment
                Dieter:

                Yes, the problem in one word is: Ideology.

                The mind of the True Believer is so beguiled by concepts that it
                avoids practical experience that might contradict belief. The
                grasping tendency of that mind seizes upon a seductive "ism" and
                attempts to defend itself against the challenges of reality, of
                everyday life experience.

                Here on this list, "most of all on this list" as you say, we have a
                dynamic tension between the Orthodox and the Innovative. Neither will
                successfully convince the other of its own point of view, mirroring
                the tension that exists in the world at-large, which periodically
                erupts into open conflict as one -ism attempts to purge another.
                Ironically, it was the freedom from -ism, the beginner's mind of
                Fukuoka, that attracted us here initially.

                We're fortunate that the tension on this list is merely rhetorical.
                From time to time there is actual communication across the divide and
                we all may learn something; at most other times there is little
                learning, more cheer-leading as polar positions get reinforced.

                C'est la vie.

                "Out beyond ideas of right and wrong
                There is a field.
                I'll meet you there."
                --(Mevlana) Jelaluddin Rumi

                This wisdom of nearly 800 years' antiquity provides guidance on how
                we are to get along, to cooperate in order that there be a
                FukuokaFarming listserve. Merely recognize an Ideology when it
                arises, and if it bothers you that isn't your own, just scroll down
                to the next message. Or patiently engage with it to help the group
                get a bit closer to mutual understanding.

                Truly,

                Forest



                >Thu Jan 3, 2008 2:52 am (PST)
                >
                >...To "have a theory" based on something one has read on Google or
                >someplace else and to "have practical experience" are two very different
                >things.
                >
                >The often repeated idea that "nature will fix all" is only applicable if we
                >view the land without people. People need to eat, hence they need to
                >intervene to grow food since most of us have a digestive track different
                >from that of cows who are able to live on grass and weeds (in most
                >places even cows can't survive without a little help from us humans).
                >
                >Patty, Calin et al., I'm not picking on you, I'm sure you mean well.
                >I'm just commenting in a general way on a line of thought that keeps
                >on popping up on many EcAg groups and most of all on this list,
                >and which I feel is not helpful in solving the practical problems of
                >those who try to put natural farming or other types of alternative
                >farming methods into praxis.
                >
                >Today, 60 years after Fukuoka first developed his type of natural
                >farming, 30 years after it was first published and more than 5 years
                >after this group was set up to try and discuss the adoption of
                >natural farming to different environments, Natural Farming, for
                >all intents and practical purposes, might as well not exist as
                >a way of growing food to feed people. Why is that? I believe
                >the tendency to put "ideas" above "practice" has something
                >to do with it.
                >
                >Do comment if you disagree (also if you agree) <snip>
                >
                >Dieter Brand
                >Portugal


                --
                Inside Passage Seeds and Native Plant Services
                Forest Shomer, owner
                Port Townsend, WA, USA
                inspass@...
                http://www.insidepassageseeds.com

                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Dieter Brand
                Larry, Welcome back! Thanks for trying to mediate, but don t worry, we are not at each other s throat, it s all very civilized. I wouldn t write off NF, or
                Message 7 of 16 , Jan 3, 2008
                • 0 Attachment
                  Larry,

                  Welcome back! Thanks for trying to mediate, but don't
                  worry, we are not at each other's throat, it's all very civilized.

                  I wouldn't write off NF, or organic no-till, as a commercial
                  non-starter. Even though it may not be possible to adapt
                  it to many places in the way originally envisaged by Fukuoka.
                  Other than difficult climatic conditions, there are also
                  economic and regulatory conditions, especially in the
                  industrialized West, which make it hard for farmers to
                  go this way.

                  Anyway, I think Fukuoka is still a source of inspiration to
                  many, even in regard to practical gardening/farming matters.
                  There undoubtedly also is the philosophical and spiritual
                  dimension to Fukuoka. I feel in tune with many of his ideas
                  in this respect too. Yet, used in a "dogmatic" way this
                  tends to stifle pragmatic discussions about the question
                  of how to put NF into practice. That, I think is a tragedy.

                  We don't only face a climatic melt down, but unnoticed
                  by many, this goes hand in hand with the contamination of
                  the food chain with innumerable toxic substances that will
                  kill us all sooner or later and a loss of organic matter in
                  agricultural soils on which all live on this planet depends.
                  If NF cannot contribute anything in practical terms to
                  solving these problems, then we might as well forget all
                  about it.

                  Dieter Brand
                  Portugal

                  Lawrence <lawrence@...> wrote:
                  Jamie Nicole wrote:
                  > ... Fukuoka_Farming is not about farming at all ... (snip)

                  Dieter Brand wrote:
                  I guess we just have to agree to disagree on this one, if words
                  are to have a meaning then natural farming is farming, is farming,
                  is ... And no matter what interpretation we may attribute to some
                  of Fukuoka's words, the man grew his food by an ingenious method
                  developed in years of meticulous and painstaking efforts.

                  You don't have to disagree, just understand that you are talking about the
                  same thing from two different perspectives, both of them accurate and valid
                  though limited.

                  To some, Fukuoka Farming is (or can be) a method for growing food (Dieter's
                  perspective). To others it can be a philosophical way of life or approach to
                  living that uses growing food as a vehicle or means to achieving a state of
                  being more closely in tune with nature and natual processes than might
                  otherwise be possible (Jamie's perspective).If I misrepresented either one
                  of you in this paragraph I apologize and would welcome correction.

                  For those of you who don't know me, I'm the person who set up the Fukuoka
                  Farming website (www.fukuokafarmingol.info). Haven't done anything to it for
                  quite some time because of matters somewhat unrelated to the topic of the
                  website, but I think I'm at a point where I'll be working on it again later
                  this month.

                  Personally, from what I've seen, heard and experienced I think Fukuoka's
                  methods are useful in food production to a point, but only to a point. The
                  only farm I know of that used Fukuoka's methods without
                  modification/adjustment was Fukuoka's farm, which no longer uses his methods
                  because they eventually turned out to be not commercially competitive. The
                  work done by Emilia Hazelip and others to adapt/employ his methods to create
                  commercially viable market gardens shows more promise for sustained,
                  commercial food production. But then so does hydroponics, aquaponics,
                  aeroponics, etc.

                  I'm going to be changing the website. Probably leave what's there there and
                  add other stuff. I'm totally open to suggestions on how to make the website
                  more useful. If any of you have any ideas for this then please let me know
                  either through this forum or directly at "L at haftl dot com".

                  Larry


                  Recent Activity

                  5
                  New Members

                  Visit Your Group
                  Sitebuilder
                  Build a web site
                  quickly & easily
                  with Sitebuilder.

                  Best of Y! Groups
                  Discover groups
                  that are the best
                  of their class.

                  Shedding Pounds
                  on Yahoo! Groups
                  Read sucess stories
                  & share your own.



                  .





                  ---------------------------------
                  Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.

                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Tradingpost
                  Jamie, isn t it american indian languages that don t have separate nouns and verbs? No thing is thought of separate from what it does or what you do with it.
                  Message 8 of 16 , Jan 3, 2008
                  • 0 Attachment
                    Jamie, isn't it american indian languages that don't have separate nouns
                    and verbs? No thing is thought of separate from what it does or what you do
                    with it. All is in flux, all is process. That is so different from western
                    concepts where we add fertilizer to soil and never see the networks of life
                    that make the whole greater than the sum of its parts.

                    paul tradingpost@...

                    Beware of all enterprises that require new clothes.
                    --Henry David Thoreau

                    *********** REPLY SEPARATOR ***********

                    On 1/3/2008 at 9:20 AM Dieter Brand wrote:

                    >Jamie,
                    >
                    > "methodless method", you like these things, just as you like
                    > Meister Eckehart, the dancing Wu-Li Masters (or was that
                    > someone else?) and so many other icons of my distant youth.
                    > We can throw ko-ans at each other until we drop dead.
                    >
                    > When we caught the ox we can ride on his back to the market
                    > square, and, in the end forget all about the ox. Then, words
                    > will again mean what they always meant, farming will be
                    > farming again.
                    >
                    > Dieter
                    >
                    >Jamie Nicol <souscayrous@...> wrote:
                    > Dear Dieter, Fukuoka used what he called a 'methodless method'
                    >and he came
                    >to it not through human ingenuity but by letting go all knowledge.
                    >
                    >It is true that I am not a farmer, although I farm (or is that garden?
                    When
                    >does a gardener become a farmer?)
                    >
                    >Words will always miss their target because they 'thing' the world and
                    what
                    >I'm trying to express is no 'thing' at all.
                    >This is as true of a book as it is of an email discussion as it is of a
                    >finger pointing at the moon.
                    >
                    >Jamie
                    >Mas Franch and Souscayrous
                    >
                  • Robert Monie
                    Hi Larry, Let me second Dieter s welcome back. One update long overdue on your site is to expand the stars section. When that sidereal mapping was made,
                    Message 9 of 16 , Jan 3, 2008
                    • 0 Attachment
                      Hi Larry,

                      Let me second Dieter's welcome back. One update long overdue on your site is to expand the "stars" section. When that sidereal mapping was made, most of us were "seeing stars"; that is, growing stuff in our imagination rather than the soil. Now we've got some real farmers like Dieter growing lots of plants more or less naturally, and they have certainly earned a place on "the map." And those of us who have worked on the soil, have grown used to having our fondest assumptions bite the dust before the reality of nature as it is played out on our little squares of earth.

                      It is an amazing thing that food for humans grows at all amid the forbs and grasses fit for cows; it is an evolutionary wonder that we did not have to develop the cud-chewing capacity and multiplex stomach of the ruminants; instead we developed (with the help of nature) our own kind of food. Reverence, therefore, rather than contempt or indifference is the proper stance for us as we view the handiwork of generations of human plant breeders and farmers of all persuasions, whose names and provenance we will never know, that gave us bok choy, tomatoes, peaches, buckwheat, and all the rest of the foods that grace our tables today.
                      We benefit from all their meddling, their serendipity, their failures, their blood sweat and tears.

                      Bob Monie
                      New Orleans, La 70119







                      Dieter Brand <diebrand@...> wrote:
                      Larry,

                      Welcome back! Thanks for trying to mediate, but don't
                      worry, we are not at each other's throat, it's all very civilized.

                      I wouldn't write off NF, or organic no-till, as a commercial
                      non-starter. Even though it may not be possible to adapt
                      it to many places in the way originally envisaged by Fukuoka.
                      Other than difficult climatic conditions, there are also
                      economic and regulatory conditions, especially in the
                      industrialized West, which make it hard for farmers to
                      go this way.

                      Anyway, I think Fukuoka is still a source of inspiration to
                      many, even in regard to practical gardening/farming matters.
                      There undoubtedly also is the philosophical and spiritual
                      dimension to Fukuoka. I feel in tune with many of his ideas
                      in this respect too. Yet, used in a "dogmatic" way this
                      tends to stifle pragmatic discussions about the question
                      of how to put NF into practice. That, I think is a tragedy.

                      We don't only face a climatic melt down, but unnoticed
                      by many, this goes hand in hand with the contamination of
                      the food chain with innumerable toxic substances that will
                      kill us all sooner or later and a loss of organic matter in
                      agricultural soils on which all live on this planet depends.
                      If NF cannot contribute anything in practical terms to
                      solving these problems, then we might as well forget all
                      about it.

                      Dieter Brand
                      Portugal

                      Lawrence <lawrence@...> wrote:
                      Jamie Nicole wrote:
                      > ... Fukuoka_Farming is not about farming at all ... (snip)

                      Dieter Brand wrote:
                      I guess we just have to agree to disagree on this one, if words
                      are to have a meaning then natural farming is farming, is farming,
                      is ... And no matter what interpretation we may attribute to some
                      of Fukuoka's words, the man grew his food by an ingenious method
                      developed in years of meticulous and painstaking efforts.

                      You don't have to disagree, just understand that you are talking about the
                      same thing from two different perspectives, both of them accurate and valid
                      though limited.

                      To some, Fukuoka Farming is (or can be) a method for growing food (Dieter's
                      perspective). To others it can be a philosophical way of life or approach to
                      living that uses growing food as a vehicle or means to achieving a state of
                      being more closely in tune with nature and natual processes than might
                      otherwise be possible (Jamie's perspective).If I misrepresented either one
                      of you in this paragraph I apologize and would welcome correction.

                      For those of you who don't know me, I'm the person who set up the Fukuoka
                      Farming website (www.fukuokafarmingol.info). Haven't done anything to it for
                      quite some time because of matters somewhat unrelated to the topic of the
                      website, but I think I'm at a point where I'll be working on it again later
                      this month.

                      Personally, from what I've seen, heard and experienced I think Fukuoka's
                      methods are useful in food production to a point, but only to a point. The
                      only farm I know of that used Fukuoka's methods without
                      modification/adjustment was Fukuoka's farm, which no longer uses his methods
                      because they eventually turned out to be not commercially competitive. The
                      work done by Emilia Hazelip and others to adapt/employ his methods to create
                      commercially viable market gardens shows more promise for sustained,
                      commercial food production. But then so does hydroponics, aquaponics,
                      aeroponics, etc.

                      I'm going to be changing the website. Probably leave what's there there and
                      add other stuff. I'm totally open to suggestions on how to make the website
                      more useful. If any of you have any ideas for this then please let me know
                      either through this forum or directly at "L at haftl dot com".

                      Larry

                      Recent Activity

                      5
                      New Members

                      Visit Your Group
                      Sitebuilder
                      Build a web site
                      quickly & easily
                      with Sitebuilder.

                      Best of Y! Groups
                      Discover groups
                      that are the best
                      of their class.

                      Shedding Pounds
                      on Yahoo! Groups
                      Read sucess stories
                      & share your own.

                      .

                      ---------------------------------
                      Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.

                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • pattyloof
                      ... clearer. I must have missed it then. Sorry to offend. Patty
                      Message 10 of 16 , Jan 3, 2008
                      • 0 Attachment
                        --- In fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com, Dieter Brand <diebrand@...> wrote:

                        > I have clearly explained
                        > why there are ants in one place and not in another based on first hand
                        > experience for over 10 years. I don't think, I can make it any
                        clearer.


                        I must have missed it then. Sorry to offend.

                        Patty
                      • Dieter Brand
                        Patty, No offence at all. I was saying that, as far as I could see, if ants can find shelter they will multiply in direct proportion to the food available and
                        Message 11 of 16 , Jan 3, 2008
                        • 0 Attachment
                          Patty,

                          No offence at all. I was saying that, as far as I could
                          see, if ants can find shelter they will multiply in direct
                          proportion to the food available and that in this region,
                          predators, even if they exist elsewhere, didn't have
                          a significant impact on ants.

                          I live on a heavy clay soil, that is ideal for building
                          rammed earth constructions, ants take advantage of
                          this by building extensive tunnels underground. They
                          mainly live on seeds, even though they will also
                          collect dead insects and other things. And since
                          there are plenty of seeds from grass and weeds
                          they have been able to prosper and multiply. Similar
                          conditions have led to large ant populations all around
                          probably since time immemorial, except, in places with
                          sandy soil where ants can't build their tunnels.

                          But as I said, I don't see ants as a pest, they can be
                          a nuisance at times, but they also fulfil many useful
                          functions.

                          Dieter

                          pattyloof <pattyloof@...> wrote:
                          --- In fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com, Dieter Brand <diebrand@...> wrote:

                          > I have clearly explained
                          > why there are ants in one place and not in another based on first hand
                          > experience for over 10 years. I don't think, I can make it any
                          clearer.

                          I must have missed it then. Sorry to offend.

                          Patty






                          ---------------------------------
                          Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search.

                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.