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Re: [fukuoka_farming] happy new year

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  • Raju Titus
    Dear Shivnarayan, Nice to see you in this group. How are you and family ? SAME TO YOU Shalini and Raju ... [Non-text portions of this message have been
    Message 1 of 30 , Dec 31, 2007
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      Dear Shivnarayan,
      Nice to see you in this group. How are you and family ?
      SAME TO YOU
      Shalini and Raju


      On 12/31/07, shivnarayan gour <shivnarayangour@...> wrote:
      >
      > DEAR FRIENDS,
      >
      > GREETINGS
      >
      > WISHING YOU A HAPPY
      >
      > &
      >
      > PROSOEROUS NEW YEAR 2008
      >
      > Shivnarayan Gour
      > shivnarayangour@... <shivnarayangour%40gmail.com>
      > Mo. 094254 33229
      > www.khetkhaliyan.blogspot.com
      >
      > Unlimited freedom, unlimited storage. Get it now, on
      > http://help.yahoo.com/l/in/yahoo/mail/yahoomail/tools/tools-08.html/
      >
      >
      >


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • michael
      Dieter, I haven t been reading the list since November. Too busy doing solar stuff. We moved from the city 30 years ago this July. And, yes, we did it
      Message 2 of 30 , Feb 15 2:36 PM
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        Dieter,

        I haven't been reading the list since November. Too busy doing solar
        stuff.

        We moved from the city 30 years ago this July. And, yes, we did it
        ourselves. This was a patch of thistles.
        Gardening, yes. By the second year, we had a market garden and
        supplied restaurants in the city. (This was before I discovered
        Fukuoka.)
        Farming, yes, but only in the sense of our needs, not for sale.
        Food, I think you meant preservation, yes, although we've made this
        much less energy intensive since then. Those books were antiquated.
        House building, yes, but it took 8 years. A very patient partner is
        required.
        Cutting trees, yes; the wood in the house comes from our land, and we
        still have choice pieces of 8/4 set aside for whatever furniture.
        Cutting trees, yes; the scraps are cut into firewood and we've heated
        ourselves with it for 30 years.
        Making furniture, no; we have two neighbors 4 miles away that like
        to do it and do a good job using our wood.
        Water purification, not really; we filter our well water for radon
        but I would not call that purification.
        Plumbing, yes, and I am finally really good at it after the solar
        thermal system. I even managed to buy the copper before it became
        priced like gold. It took me 5 years to buy enough.
        Waste water treatment, no; it is required by law that we use licensed
        people for this. Pretty simple, really, but they want a person with
        a license.
        Electrical, yes; it was the only part I understood well in the
        beginning, although I did a little overkill that has since been to
        our benefit - I am able to control circuits in use. There is no
        energy conservation as final as a circuit which does not work unless
        the sun shines.
        Solar, yes; wind, no. I don't believe in wind power here; too hard
        to regulate, too spotty here, and too many moving parts - meaning
        maintenance. It's ok for others, just not me.
        Telecom, yes; a couple of poles and the wireless technology of the
        past 10 years have made it much simpler than the old days.
        Maintaining basic machinery, yes, have to; every time I ask someone
        else to do it, it comes back worse than when it left. But, I've had
        a wrench in my hand since I was 3.
        Car, yes, more machinery. I am tired of all this machinery but don't
        see a way around it yet. I am imagining a simple electrical all-
        around vehicle that I can plug into the PV panels.
        Each of these do take a lifetime, the same lifetime, and I can't
        think of a better way to 'spend' a lifetime. Amazing what gets done
        when you're at it a little every day. Beats flailing around in the
        city, or whatever people do going from box to box there.

        That being said, I appreciate the enormity of your undertaking. But
        what else would you do with your time?
        - Michael

        On Nov 29, 2007, at 3:20 PM, Dieter Brand wrote:

        > I don't want to comment on your declarations in detail, except
        > perhaps to say that some of it sounds good on paper, but trying
        > to put it into practice is quite a different cattle of fish. For
        > example,
        > the demand that "you must build it yourself". Sounds nice! But did
        > you try? We moved out here from the city ten years ago, there
        > was nothing, and there still isn't very much. But do you have any
        > idea what it means to start learning: gardening, farming, food
        > conservation and processing, house building, cutting trees, making
        > furniture, water purification, plumbing, waste water treatment,
        > electrical installations, solar and wind energy, telecom
        > installations,
        > maintaining basic machinery, the car .......... and that all at once?
        > Each one of these could take you a lifetime.
        >
        > Dieter Brand
        > Portugal



        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Dieter Brand
        Michael, That sounds like a great experience. I didn t think there were people like that any longer. I hope you will stay on the list for a while, for purely
        Message 3 of 30 , Feb 16 1:15 AM
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          Michael,

          That sounds like a great experience. I didn't think there were people
          like that any longer. I hope you will stay on the list for a while, for purely
          selfish reasons of course, since it may allow us to benefit from your
          experience.

          Since you mentioned telecoms. That is one point I haven't been able
          to find a satisfactory solution for. In my parts they put in satellite links
          instead of landlines. Unfortunately, the system doesn't allow for the
          Internet. I have been using the mobile service, but being in the middle
          between two base stations, where the signal is the weakest, and at
          the bottom of a valley, where there is no signal without external
          antenna, the setup is precarious with the signal fading in and out.
          I know in the US there are relay stations for private use, but they
          probably wouldn't work with the different frequencies in Europe. Do
          you know of any such system that might work in Europe?

          >That being said, I appreciate the enormity of your undertaking.
          >But what else would you do with your time?

          Hm, perhaps you have got a point there. Who would want to go
          back to the rat race after life in the big wide open nature with not
          single car engine to be heard far and near. But fixing things can
          get a bit too much at times. I have a huge list of things to do
          which I try not to think about so as not to sink into utter despair.

          Dieter

          michael <mdearing@...> wrote:
          Dieter,

          I haven't been reading the list since November. Too busy doing solar
          stuff.

          We moved from the city 30 years ago this July. And, yes, we did it
          ourselves. This was a patch of thistles.
          Gardening, yes. By the second year, we had a market garden and
          supplied restaurants in the city. (This was before I discovered
          Fukuoka.)
          Farming, yes, but only in the sense of our needs, not for sale.
          Food, I think you meant preservation, yes, although we've made this
          much less energy intensive since then. Those books were antiquated.
          House building, yes, but it took 8 years. A very patient partner is
          required.
          Cutting trees, yes; the wood in the house comes from our land, and we
          still have choice pieces of 8/4 set aside for whatever furniture.
          Cutting trees, yes; the scraps are cut into firewood and we've heated
          ourselves with it for 30 years.
          Making furniture, no; we have two neighbors 4 miles away that like
          to do it and do a good job using our wood.
          Water purification, not really; we filter our well water for radon
          but I would not call that purification.
          Plumbing, yes, and I am finally really good at it after the solar
          thermal system. I even managed to buy the copper before it became
          priced like gold. It took me 5 years to buy enough.
          Waste water treatment, no; it is required by law that we use licensed
          people for this. Pretty simple, really, but they want a person with
          a license.
          Electrical, yes; it was the only part I understood well in the
          beginning, although I did a little overkill that has since been to
          our benefit - I am able to control circuits in use. There is no
          energy conservation as final as a circuit which does not work unless
          the sun shines.
          Solar, yes; wind, no. I don't believe in wind power here; too hard
          to regulate, too spotty here, and too many moving parts - meaning
          maintenance. It's ok for others, just not me.
          Telecom, yes; a couple of poles and the wireless technology of the
          past 10 years have made it much simpler than the old days.
          Maintaining basic machinery, yes, have to; every time I ask someone
          else to do it, it comes back worse than when it left. But, I've had
          a wrench in my hand since I was 3.
          Car, yes, more machinery. I am tired of all this machinery but don't
          see a way around it yet. I am imagining a simple electrical all-
          around vehicle that I can plug into the PV panels.
          Each of these do take a lifetime, the same lifetime, and I can't
          think of a better way to 'spend' a lifetime. Amazing what gets done
          when you're at it a little every day. Beats flailing around in the
          city, or whatever people do going from box to box there.

          That being said, I appreciate the enormity of your undertaking. But
          what else would you do with your time?
          - Michael

          On Nov 29, 2007, at 3:20 PM, Dieter Brand wrote:

          > I don't want to comment on your declarations in detail, except
          > perhaps to say that some of it sounds good on paper, but trying
          > to put it into practice is quite a different cattle of fish. For
          > example,
          > the demand that "you must build it yourself". Sounds nice! But did
          > you try? We moved out here from the city ten years ago, there
          > was nothing, and there still isn't very much. But do you have any
          > idea what it means to start learning: gardening, farming, food
          > conservation and processing, house building, cutting trees, making
          > furniture, water purification, plumbing, waste water treatment,
          > electrical installations, solar and wind energy, telecom
          > installations,
          > maintaining basic machinery, the car .......... and that all at once?
          > Each one of these could take you a lifetime.
          >
          > Dieter Brand
          > Portugal

          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






          ---------------------------------
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          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • michael
          First thing to do is get rid of the list. It took me ten years to do this. I don t know why it took me so long to figure out the list was the problem. Lists
          Message 4 of 30 , Feb 16 7:02 AM
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            First thing to do is get rid of the list. It took me ten years to do
            this. I don't know why it took me so long to figure out the list was
            the problem. Lists will capture you in the past and torture you.
            Lists are by nature historic. The things one must do are all in the
            future until they arrive in the present. Let them arrive and work on
            them as the solution presents itself. It will. If you try to do the
            fix before its time, the fix will be more difficult, will not last,
            or will cause some other thing to need fixing.
            That being said, I do plan, and then throw away the plan. The
            creation of the plan is what will create my future. No need to hang
            on to the plan while the future unfolds. Do another plan instead,
            based on your better understanding of what it is you have to do.
            The longer you wait to do something, waiting until the solution or
            fix is obvious, the better the job will be.
            I always refer to this as the Fukuoka way of life because it is
            similar to how my growing of green things has evolved and is
            evolving It took me about the same ten years to figure out what
            Fukuoka's OSE meant to me.
            - Michael

            On Feb 16, 2008, at 3:15 AM, Dieter Brand wrote:

            > I have a huge list of things to do
            > which I try not to think about so as not to sink into utter despair.
            >
            > Dieter



            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • michael
            If the satellites are KA band, there may be companies which provide the internet over satellite. There are in the US (look up wildblue.com). For the mobile
            Message 5 of 30 , Feb 16 7:17 AM
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              If the satellites are KA band, there may be companies which provide
              the internet over satellite. There are in the US (look up
              wildblue.com).

              For the mobile approach,
              if you can get permission to put something on one of the hilltops,
              you can put a GSM (I presume your mobile is GSM - most of EU is)
              transceiver there. Then you can put a local transceiver (like what
              is now being called 'femto' by the cell companies) there which is
              made to bring a mobile signal inside a building whose walls it cannot
              get through. Your mobile handset will then pick up that signal. Or
              you can convert the mobile transceiver signal to a wireless signal
              (433 MHz is the cheapest here but you have to research the EU
              frequencies - I am sure such exists in the EU) and then pick up the
              wireless signal. There are very directional antennas which you would
              use, but you need to know the EU frequency that is allowed.

              Everything that is made for CDMA in the US is probably matched by the
              equivalent made for GSM in the EU. The Germans and the Israelis are
              the leaders in making this stuff, so you might look around on the Web
              there.

              - michael

              On Feb 16, 2008, at 3:15 AM, Dieter Brand wrote:

              > Since you mentioned telecoms. That is one point I haven't been able
              > to find a satisfactory solution for. In my parts they put in
              > satellite links
              > instead of landlines. Unfortunately, the system doesn't allow for the
              > Internet. I have been using the mobile service, but being in the
              > middle
              > between two base stations, where the signal is the weakest, and at
              > the bottom of a valley, where there is no signal without external
              > antenna, the setup is precarious with the signal fading in and out.
              > I know in the US there are relay stations for private use, but they
              > probably wouldn't work with the different frequencies in Europe. Do
              > you know of any such system that might work in Europe?



              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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