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RE : Re: [fukuoka_farming] Clover - Indian Local Name

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  • Barbié olivier
    Hi Leucaena leucocephala http://www.odi.org.uk/fpeg/publications/greyliterature/socialforestry/relwani/index.html Olivier Dieter Brand a
    Message 1 of 26 , Nov 5, 2007
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      Hi

      Leucaena leucocephala

      http://www.odi.org.uk/fpeg/publications/greyliterature/socialforestry/relwani/index.html

      Olivier

      Dieter Brand <diebrand@...> a écrit :
      Raju,

      Perhaps this has been mentioned before, but I have no recollection
      if it has. What acacia is "subabul"? Do you have a botanical name?
      Or is there a website with a description of the plant? Will it grow
      again when cut back to above the ground? Alternately, do you
      know of any acacia or other bush or small tree that will grow again
      after being cut back to the ground?

      Dieter

      Raju Titus <rajuktitus@...> wrote:
      Dear friend,
      I am Raju Titus doing Fukuoka Farming in Hoshangabad M.P. India since 85-86.
      White clover is a natural weed in Japan it is leguminous. There is no such
      weed is available which grows in abundance in our place..So many indian
      leguminus variety of weeds /crops are available such as Berseem ,lucern etc.
      But Question is what for you are interested? Fukuoka is using this weed in
      his Rice?Wheat rotation field for Ground cover ,weed control,nitrogen
      fixing,insect control,water conservation, organic mulching etc.
      We tried so many varieties but found Subabul (acacia). Subabul is a strong,
      deep rooted ,wild and leguminous for above mentioned uses.I found no any
      natural weed cover which can solve this problem.
      Crops of grass variety do well in non- grass ground cover and leguminous
      crops do well in grass covered land.
      Therefore my advise is instead of elimination of weeds we must learn
      growing crops in natural weed cover of our area.
      Thanks
      Raju

      On 11/5/07, shashi.pkumar@... <shashi.pkumar@...> wrote:
      >
      > Dear Sir/List Members
      >
      >
      > Could you please let know local Indian name (Hindi, Kannada, or for that
      > matter any local Indian name) for white clover? Also, could you please let
      > know where will I get White Clover Seeds in India?
      >
      > Regards
      > Shashi
      >
      >
      >

      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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      Olivier Barbié


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    • shashi.pkumar@wipro.com
      Dear Rajuji, Thank you very much for the reply. Currently am exploring weeds/plans what can grow well in saline land, the reason for this has been describer
      Message 2 of 26 , Nov 5, 2007
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        Dear Rajuji,

        Thank you very much for the reply.

        Currently am exploring weeds/plans what can grow well in saline land, the reason for this has been describer below.

        I bought 3 acres of (~1.2 hectares) of depleted land around 1 year back.

        Observations: Most of the land is saline(80% of total land), fails to soak rain water, and is void vegetation/tree cover.

        AIM: convert land good for sustainable agriculture

        What was done: This monsoon I scattered horse gram (100 KG), daiyancha (local plant which generates lot of mulch, it is a di-cotyledon)(120KG) and jute (120 KG) seeds during this monsoon. Also scattered good amount of Glirisedia, Subabul, Thandadi seeds.

        What else was done: Made a provision for logged water to drain out, hoping that it will take away the salinity.

        Results: So far it has been mixed bag. Jute failed grow beyond few inches and died, daiyancha grew for around 1.5 to 2 feet and died and horse gram has grown ok (in about 20% of the land) but only in the non saline land.

        Help I need: Please suggest/guide how can I get the land corrected may be in next couple of years. Please suggest a non chemical way of treating my land.

        Thank you very much for your help.

        Regards
        Shashi

        -----Original Message-----
        From: fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com [mailto:fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Raju Titus
        Sent: Monday, November 05, 2007 11:42 AM
        To: fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: Re: [fukuoka_farming] Clover - Indian Local Name

        Dear friend,
        I am Raju Titus doing Fukuoka Farming in Hoshangabad M.P. India since 85-86.
        White clover is a natural weed in Japan it is leguminous. There is no such weed is available which grows in abundance in our place..So many indian leguminus variety of weeds /crops are available such as Berseem ,lucern etc.
        But Question is what for you are interested? Fukuoka is using this weed in his Rice?Wheat rotation field for Ground cover ,weed control,nitrogen fixing,insect control,water conservation, organic mulching etc.
        We tried so many varieties but found Subabul (acacia). Subabul is a strong, deep rooted ,wild and leguminous for above mentioned uses.I found no any natural weed cover which can solve this problem.
        Crops of grass variety do well in non- grass ground cover and leguminous crops do well in grass covered land.
        Therefore my advise is instead of elimination of weeds we must learn growing crops in natural weed cover of our area.
        Thanks
        Raju

        On 11/5/07, shashi.pkumar@... <shashi.pkumar@...> wrote:
        >
        > Dear Sir/List Members
        >
        >
        > Could you please let know local Indian name (Hindi, Kannada, or for
        > that matter any local Indian name) for white clover? Also, could you
        > please let know where will I get White Clover Seeds in India?
        >
        > Regards
        > Shashi
        >
        >
        >


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




        Yahoo! Groups Links
      • Robert Monie
        Hi Dieter, Sababul is most probably the Leucaena leucocephala, also known as Koa Haole and White Leadtree. It is related to the acacia and generally
        Message 3 of 26 , Nov 5, 2007
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          Hi Dieter,

          Sababul is most probably the Leucaena leucocephala, also known as "Koa Haole" and
          White Leadtree. It is related to the acacia and generally considered invasive. A good photo and description appears at http://www.tradewindsfruit.com/koa_haole.htm and a bit more information at http://nerdatabank.nic.in/csireconomic.htm.

          In New Orleans, LA most landscapers do not plant acacia; the tree is too prone to insect invasion and destruction in our climate and soil.

          Bob Monie

          Dieter Brand <diebrand@...> wrote:
          Raju,

          Perhaps this has been mentioned before, but I have no recollection
          if it has. What acacia is "subabul"? Do you have a botanical name?
          Or is there a website with a description of the plant? Will it grow
          again when cut back to above the ground? Alternately, do you
          know of any acacia or other bush or small tree that will grow again
          after being cut back to the ground?

          Dieter

          Raju Titus <rajuktitus@...> wrote:
          Dear friend,
          I am Raju Titus doing Fukuoka Farming in Hoshangabad M.P. India since 85-86.
          White clover is a natural weed in Japan it is leguminous. There is no such
          weed is available which grows in abundance in our place..So many indian
          leguminus variety of weeds /crops are available such as Berseem ,lucern etc.
          But Question is what for you are interested? Fukuoka is using this weed in
          his Rice?Wheat rotation field for Ground cover ,weed control,nitrogen
          fixing,insect control,water conservation, organic mulching etc.
          We tried so many varieties but found Subabul (acacia). Subabul is a strong,
          deep rooted ,wild and leguminous for above mentioned uses.I found no any
          natural weed cover which can solve this problem.
          Crops of grass variety do well in non- grass ground cover and leguminous
          crops do well in grass covered land.
          Therefore my advise is instead of elimination of weeds we must learn
          growing crops in natural weed cover of our area.
          Thanks
          Raju

          On 11/5/07, shashi.pkumar@... <shashi.pkumar@...> wrote:
          >
          > Dear Sir/List Members
          >
          >
          > Could you please let know local Indian name (Hindi, Kannada, or for that
          > matter any local Indian name) for white clover? Also, could you please let
          > know where will I get White Clover Seeds in India?
          >
          > Regards
          > Shashi
          >
          >
          >

          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

          __________________________________________________
          Do You Yahoo!?
          Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
          http://mail.yahoo.com

          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Raju Titus
          Friends, Subabul is a Australian Acacia known as Mearnsii .In Natural Way of Farming Fukuoka used Morisima Acasia.Once it germinate send roots in deep and do
          Message 4 of 26 , Nov 5, 2007
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            Friends,
            Subabul is a Australian Acacia known as Mearnsii .In Natural Way of Farming
            Fukuoka used Morisima Acasia.Once it germinate send roots in deep and do not
            die after several time cutting.It germinate and survive by just broad
            casting direct seeding.It can be used where white clover is not
            available.Weare growing Rice/Wheat in the ground cover of
            subabul.Method is very simple we scatter seeds of crop in the standing cover
            of Subabul and when see that crop germinate sufficiently we cut back
            branches of Subabul and mulch on the germinating crop sparshly as Fukuoka
            spreading Rice straws on germinating Wheat.
            Raju

            On 11/5/07, Robert Monie <bobm20001@...> wrote:
            >
            > Hi Dieter,
            >
            > Sababul is most probably the Leucaena leucocephala, also known as "Koa
            > Haole" and
            > White Leadtree. It is related to the acacia and generally considered
            > invasive. A good photo and description appears at
            > http://www.tradewindsfruit.com/koa_haole.htm and a bit more information at
            > http://nerdatabank.nic.in/csireconomic.htm.
            >
            > In New Orleans, LA most landscapers do not plant acacia; the tree is too
            > prone to insect invasion and destruction in our climate and soil.
            >
            > Bob Monie
            >
            > Dieter Brand <diebrand@... <diebrand%40yahoo.com>> wrote:
            > Raju,
            >
            > Perhaps this has been mentioned before, but I have no recollection
            > if it has. What acacia is "subabul"? Do you have a botanical name?
            > Or is there a website with a description of the plant? Will it grow
            > again when cut back to above the ground? Alternately, do you
            > know of any acacia or other bush or small tree that will grow again
            > after being cut back to the ground?
            >
            > Dieter
            >
            > Raju Titus <rajuktitus@... <rajuktitus%40gmail.com>> wrote:
            > Dear friend,
            > I am Raju Titus doing Fukuoka Farming in Hoshangabad M.P. India since
            > 85-86.
            > White clover is a natural weed in Japan it is leguminous. There is no such
            > weed is available which grows in abundance in our place..So many indian
            > leguminus variety of weeds /crops are available such as Berseem ,lucern
            > etc.
            > But Question is what for you are interested? Fukuoka is using this weed in
            > his Rice?Wheat rotation field for Ground cover ,weed control,nitrogen
            > fixing,insect control,water conservation, organic mulching etc.
            > We tried so many varieties but found Subabul (acacia). Subabul is a
            > strong,
            > deep rooted ,wild and leguminous for above mentioned uses.I found no any
            > natural weed cover which can solve this problem.
            > Crops of grass variety do well in non- grass ground cover and leguminous
            > crops do well in grass covered land.
            > Therefore my advise is instead of elimination of weeds we must learn
            > growing crops in natural weed cover of our area.
            > Thanks
            > Raju
            >
            > On 11/5/07, shashi.pkumar@... <shashi.pkumar%40wipro.com> <
            > shashi.pkumar@... <shashi.pkumar%40wipro.com>> wrote:
            > >
            > > Dear Sir/List Members
            > >
            > >
            > > Could you please let know local Indian name (Hindi, Kannada, or for that
            > > matter any local Indian name) for white clover? Also, could you please
            > let
            > > know where will I get White Clover Seeds in India?
            > >
            > > Regards
            > > Shashi
            > >
            > >
            > >
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >
            > __________________________________________________
            > Do You Yahoo!?
            > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
            > http://mail.yahoo.com
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >
            >
            >


            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Raju Titus
            Photo of Subabul is avilable in fukuoka_farming yahoo groups photos. Raju ... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            Message 5 of 26 , Nov 5, 2007
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              Photo of Subabul is avilable in fukuoka_farming yahoo groups photos.
              Raju

              On 11/5/07, Robert Monie <bobm20001@...> wrote:
              >
              > Hi Dieter,
              >
              > Sababul is most probably the Leucaena leucocephala, also known as "Koa
              > Haole" and
              > White Leadtree. It is related to the acacia and generally considered
              > invasive. A good photo and description appears at
              > http://www.tradewindsfruit.com/koa_haole.htm and a bit more information at
              > http://nerdatabank.nic.in/csireconomic.htm.
              >
              > In New Orleans, LA most landscapers do not plant acacia; the tree is too
              > prone to insect invasion and destruction in our climate and soil.
              >
              > Bob Monie
              >
              > Dieter Brand <diebrand@... <diebrand%40yahoo.com>> wrote:
              > Raju,
              >
              > Perhaps this has been mentioned before, but I have no recollection
              > if it has. What acacia is "subabul"? Do you have a botanical name?
              > Or is there a website with a description of the plant? Will it grow
              > again when cut back to above the ground? Alternately, do you
              > know of any acacia or other bush or small tree that will grow again
              > after being cut back to the ground?
              >
              > Dieter
              >
              > Raju Titus <rajuktitus@... <rajuktitus%40gmail.com>> wrote:
              > Dear friend,
              > I am Raju Titus doing Fukuoka Farming in Hoshangabad M.P. India since
              > 85-86.
              > White clover is a natural weed in Japan it is leguminous. There is no such
              > weed is available which grows in abundance in our place..So many indian
              > leguminus variety of weeds /crops are available such as Berseem ,lucern
              > etc.
              > But Question is what for you are interested? Fukuoka is using this weed in
              > his Rice?Wheat rotation field for Ground cover ,weed control,nitrogen
              > fixing,insect control,water conservation, organic mulching etc.
              > We tried so many varieties but found Subabul (acacia). Subabul is a
              > strong,
              > deep rooted ,wild and leguminous for above mentioned uses.I found no any
              > natural weed cover which can solve this problem.
              > Crops of grass variety do well in non- grass ground cover and leguminous
              > crops do well in grass covered land.
              > Therefore my advise is instead of elimination of weeds we must learn
              > growing crops in natural weed cover of our area.
              > Thanks
              > Raju
              >
              > On 11/5/07, shashi.pkumar@... <shashi.pkumar%40wipro.com> <
              > shashi.pkumar@... <shashi.pkumar%40wipro.com>> wrote:
              > >
              > > Dear Sir/List Members
              > >
              > >
              > > Could you please let know local Indian name (Hindi, Kannada, or for that
              > > matter any local Indian name) for white clover? Also, could you please
              > let
              > > know where will I get White Clover Seeds in India?
              > >
              > > Regards
              > > Shashi
              > >
              > >
              > >
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
              > __________________________________________________
              > Do You Yahoo!?
              > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
              > http://mail.yahoo.com
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
              >
              >


              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Robert Monie
              Hi, If you Google the single word subabul, dozens of links immediately pop up, almost all of them (including many from India) identifying the term with
              Message 6 of 26 , Nov 5, 2007
              • 0 Attachment
                Hi,

                If you Google the single word "subabul," dozens of links immediately pop up, almost all of them (including many from India) identifying the term with Leucaena leucocephala or a new variety called Leucaena collensi. Almost none of them refer to the acacia variety you mentioned.
                Examples of Internet articles that equate subabul with Leucaena leucocephala include:

                Economics of subabul practice
                Bioevaluation of subabul
                Subabul toxicity in kids
                Subabul and eucalyptus
                Indian seed resources: A New Variety of subabul
                Subabul, an easy growing tree

                Obviously, the popular term subabul is not standardized in English and is subject to regional and dialectal differences. To avoid misunderstanding then, it would be best to use the
                Latin binomial designations for the various types of acacia rather than the variously interpreted "subabul."

                Bob Monie
                Raju Titus <rajuktitus@...> wrote:
                Photo of Subabul is avilable in fukuoka_farming yahoo groups photos.
                Raju

                On 11/5/07, Robert Monie <bobm20001@...> wrote:
                >
                > Hi Dieter,
                >
                > Sababul is most probably the Leucaena leucocephala, also known as "Koa
                > Haole" and
                > White Leadtree. It is related to the acacia and generally considered
                > invasive. A good photo and description appears at
                > http://www.tradewindsfruit.com/koa_haole.htm and a bit more information at
                > http://nerdatabank.nic.in/csireconomic.htm.
                >
                > In New Orleans, LA most landscapers do not plant acacia; the tree is too
                > prone to insect invasion and destruction in our climate and soil.
                >
                > Bob Monie
                >
                > Dieter Brand <diebrand@... <diebrand%40yahoo.com>> wrote:
                > Raju,
                >
                > Perhaps this has been mentioned before, but I have no recollection
                > if it has. What acacia is "subabul"? Do you have a botanical name?
                > Or is there a website with a description of the plant? Will it grow
                > again when cut back to above the ground? Alternately, do you
                > know of any acacia or other bush or small tree that will grow again
                > after being cut back to the ground?
                >
                > Dieter
                >
                > Raju Titus <rajuktitus@... <rajuktitus%40gmail.com>> wrote:
                > Dear friend,
                > I am Raju Titus doing Fukuoka Farming in Hoshangabad M.P. India since
                > 85-86.
                > White clover is a natural weed in Japan it is leguminous. There is no such
                > weed is available which grows in abundance in our place..So many indian
                > leguminus variety of weeds /crops are available such as Berseem ,lucern
                > etc.
                > But Question is what for you are interested? Fukuoka is using this weed in
                > his Rice?Wheat rotation field for Ground cover ,weed control,nitrogen
                > fixing,insect control,water conservation, organic mulching etc.
                > We tried so many varieties but found Subabul (acacia). Subabul is a
                > strong,
                > deep rooted ,wild and leguminous for above mentioned uses.I found no any
                > natural weed cover which can solve this problem.
                > Crops of grass variety do well in non- grass ground cover and leguminous
                > crops do well in grass covered land.
                > Therefore my advise is instead of elimination of weeds we must learn
                > growing crops in natural weed cover of our area.
                > Thanks
                > Raju
                >
                > On 11/5/07, shashi.pkumar@... <shashi.pkumar%40wipro.com> <
                > shashi.pkumar@... <shashi.pkumar%40wipro.com>> wrote:
                > >
                > > Dear Sir/List Members
                > >
                > >
                > > Could you please let know local Indian name (Hindi, Kannada, or for that
                > > matter any local Indian name) for white clover? Also, could you please
                > let
                > > know where will I get White Clover Seeds in India?
                > >
                > > Regards
                > > Shashi
                > >
                > >
                > >
                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >
                > __________________________________________________
                > Do You Yahoo!?
                > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
                > http://mail.yahoo.com
                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >
                >
                >

                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Robert Monie
                Hi, If you Google the single word subabul, dozens of links immediately pop up, almost all of them (including many from India) identifying the term with
                Message 7 of 26 , Nov 5, 2007
                • 0 Attachment
                  Hi,

                  If you Google the single word "subabul," dozens of links immediately pop up, almost all of them (including many from India) identifying the term with Leucaena leucocephala or a new variety called Leucaena collensi. Almost none of them refer to the acacia variety you mentioned.
                  Examples of Internet articles that equate subabul with Leucaena leucocephala include:

                  Economics of subabul practice
                  Bioevaluation of subabul
                  Subabul toxicity in kids
                  Subabul and eucalyptus
                  Indian seed resources: A New Variety of subabul
                  Subabul, an easy growing tree

                  Obviously, the popular term subabul is not standardized in English and is subject to regional and dialectal differences. To avoid misunderstanding then, it would be best to use the
                  Latin binomial designations for the various types of acacia rather than the variously interpreted "subabul."

                  Bob Monie
                  Raju Titus <rajuktitus@...> wrote:
                  Photo of Subabul is avilable in fukuoka_farming yahoo groups photos.
                  Raju

                  On 11/5/07, Robert Monie <bobm20001@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Hi Dieter,
                  >
                  > Sababul is most probably the Leucaena leucocephala, also known as "Koa
                  > Haole" and
                  > White Leadtree. It is related to the acacia and generally considered
                  > invasive. A good photo and description appears at
                  > http://www.tradewindsfruit.com/koa_haole.htm and a bit more information at
                  > http://nerdatabank.nic.in/csireconomic.htm.
                  >
                  > In New Orleans, LA most landscapers do not plant acacia; the tree is too
                  > prone to insect invasion and destruction in our climate and soil.
                  >
                  > Bob Monie
                  >
                  > Dieter Brand <diebrand@... <diebrand%40yahoo.com>> wrote:
                  > Raju,
                  >
                  > Perhaps this has been mentioned before, but I have no recollection
                  > if it has. What acacia is "subabul"? Do you have a botanical name?
                  > Or is there a website with a description of the plant? Will it grow
                  > again when cut back to above the ground? Alternately, do you
                  > know of any acacia or other bush or small tree that will grow again
                  > after being cut back to the ground?
                  >
                  > Dieter
                  >
                  > Raju Titus <rajuktitus@... <rajuktitus%40gmail.com>> wrote:
                  > Dear friend,
                  > I am Raju Titus doing Fukuoka Farming in Hoshangabad M.P. India since
                  > 85-86.
                  > White clover is a natural weed in Japan it is leguminous. There is no such
                  > weed is available which grows in abundance in our place..So many indian
                  > leguminus variety of weeds /crops are available such as Berseem ,lucern
                  > etc.
                  > But Question is what for you are interested? Fukuoka is using this weed in
                  > his Rice?Wheat rotation field for Ground cover ,weed control,nitrogen
                  > fixing,insect control,water conservation, organic mulching etc.
                  > We tried so many varieties but found Subabul (acacia). Subabul is a
                  > strong,
                  > deep rooted ,wild and leguminous for above mentioned uses.I found no any
                  > natural weed cover which can solve this problem.
                  > Crops of grass variety do well in non- grass ground cover and leguminous
                  > crops do well in grass covered land.
                  > Therefore my advise is instead of elimination of weeds we must learn
                  > growing crops in natural weed cover of our area.
                  > Thanks
                  > Raju
                  >
                  > On 11/5/07, shashi.pkumar@... <shashi.pkumar%40wipro.com> <
                  > shashi.pkumar@... <shashi.pkumar%40wipro.com>> wrote:
                  > >
                  > > Dear Sir/List Members
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > Could you please let know local Indian name (Hindi, Kannada, or for that
                  > > matter any local Indian name) for white clover? Also, could you please
                  > let
                  > > know where will I get White Clover Seeds in India?
                  > >
                  > > Regards
                  > > Shashi
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  >
                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  >
                  > __________________________________________________
                  > Do You Yahoo!?
                  > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
                  > http://mail.yahoo.com
                  >
                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  >
                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  >
                  >
                  >

                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Raju Titus
                  Dear friend, You are correct there is lot of confusion in names.I checked plant in Google image I found it is Leucaena Leucocephala. I am also sending you
                  Message 8 of 26 , Nov 5, 2007
                  • 0 Attachment
                    Dear friend,
                    You are correct there is lot of confusion in names.I checked plant in Google
                    image I found it is Leucaena Leucocephala. I am also sending you
                    photo.downloaded.
                    RajuTitus


                    On 11/5/07, Robert Monie <bobm20001@...>

                    > Hi,
                    >
                    > If you Google the single word "subabul," dozens of links immediately pop
                    > up, almost all of them (including many from India) identifying the term with
                    > Leucaena leucocephala or a new variety called Leucaena collensi. Almost none
                    > of them refer to the acacia variety you mentioned.
                    > Examples of Internet articles that equate subabul with Leucaena
                    > leucocephala include:
                    >
                    > Economics of subabul practice
                    > Bioevaluation of subabul
                    > Subabul toxicity in kids
                    > Subabul and eucalyptus
                    > Indian seed resources: A New Variety of subabul
                    > Subabul, an easy growing tree
                    >
                    > Obviously, the popular term subabul is not standardized in English and is
                    > subject to regional and dialectal differences. To avoid misunderstanding
                    > then, it would be best to use the
                    > Latin binomial designations for the various types of acacia rather than
                    > the variously interpreted "subabul."
                    >
                    > Bob Monie
                    > Raju Titus <rajuktitus@... <rajuktitus%40gmail.com>> wrote:
                    > Photo of Subabul is avilable in fukuoka_farming yahoo groups photos.
                    > Raju
                    >
                    > On 11/5/07, Robert Monie <bobm20001@... <bobm20001%40yahoo.com>>
                    > wrote:
                    > >
                    > > Hi Dieter,
                    > >
                    > > Sababul is most probably the Leucaena leucocephala, also known as "Koa
                    > > Haole" and
                    > > White Leadtree. It is related to the acacia and generally considered
                    > > invasive. A good photo and description appears at
                    > > http://www.tradewindsfruit.com/koa_haole.htm and a bit more information
                    > at
                    > > http://nerdatabank.nic.in/csireconomic.htm.
                    > >
                    > > In New Orleans, LA most landscapers do not plant acacia; the tree is too
                    > > prone to insect invasion and destruction in our climate and soil.
                    > >
                    > > Bob Monie
                    > >
                    > > Dieter Brand <diebrand@... <diebrand%40yahoo.com><diebrand%40yahoo.com>> wrote:
                    > > Raju,
                    > >
                    > > Perhaps this has been mentioned before, but I have no recollection
                    > > if it has. What acacia is "subabul"? Do you have a botanical name?
                    > > Or is there a website with a description of the plant? Will it grow
                    > > again when cut back to above the ground? Alternately, do you
                    > > know of any acacia or other bush or small tree that will grow again
                    > > after being cut back to the ground?
                    > >
                    > > Dieter
                    > >
                    > > Raju Titus <rajuktitus@... <rajuktitus%40gmail.com><rajuktitus%40gmail.com>> wrote:
                    > > Dear friend,
                    > > I am Raju Titus doing Fukuoka Farming in Hoshangabad M.P. India since
                    > > 85-86.
                    > > White clover is a natural weed in Japan it is leguminous. There is no
                    > such
                    > > weed is available which grows in abundance in our place..So many indian
                    > > leguminus variety of weeds /crops are available such as Berseem ,lucern
                    > > etc.
                    > > But Question is what for you are interested? Fukuoka is using this weed
                    > in
                    > > his Rice?Wheat rotation field for Ground cover ,weed control,nitrogen
                    > > fixing,insect control,water conservation, organic mulching etc.
                    > > We tried so many varieties but found Subabul (acacia). Subabul is a
                    > > strong,
                    > > deep rooted ,wild and leguminous for above mentioned uses.I found no any
                    > > natural weed cover which can solve this problem.
                    > > Crops of grass variety do well in non- grass ground cover and leguminous
                    > > crops do well in grass covered land.
                    > > Therefore my advise is instead of elimination of weeds we must learn
                    > > growing crops in natural weed cover of our area.
                    > > Thanks
                    > > Raju
                    > >
                    > > On 11/5/07, shashi.pkumar@... <shashi.pkumar%40wipro.com> <
                    > shashi.pkumar%40wipro.com> <
                    > > shashi.pkumar@... <shashi.pkumar%40wipro.com> <
                    > shashi.pkumar%40wipro.com>> wrote:
                    > > >
                    > > > Dear Sir/List Members
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > > Could you please let know local Indian name (Hindi, Kannada, or for
                    > that
                    > > > matter any local Indian name) for white clover? Also, could you please
                    > > let
                    > > > know where will I get White Clover Seeds in India?
                    > > >
                    > > > Regards
                    > > > Shashi
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > >
                    > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    > >
                    > > __________________________________________________
                    > > Do You Yahoo!?
                    > > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
                    > > http://mail.yahoo.com
                    > >
                    > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    > >
                    > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    >
                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    >
                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    >
                    >
                    >


                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • Dieter Brand
                    Thanks to Bob, Raju and Olivier, That was quick! Yes, plant naming can be tricky. Raju, do you have any pictures showing your fields before and after cutting
                    Message 9 of 26 , Nov 5, 2007
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                      Thanks to Bob, Raju and Olivier,

                      That was quick! Yes, plant naming can be tricky.

                      Raju, do you have any pictures showing your fields before and after
                      cutting the Subabul (or Mearnsii)?. What is the spacing of the trees
                      and how much can you cut them back?

                      Dieter Brand
                      Portugal

                      Raju Titus <rajuktitus@...> wrote:
                      Friends,
                      Subabul is a Australian Acacia known as Mearnsii .In Natural Way of Farming
                      Fukuoka used Morisima Acasia.Once it germinate send roots in deep and do not
                      die after several time cutting.It germinate and survive by just broad
                      casting direct seeding.It can be used where white clover is not
                      available.Weare growing Rice/Wheat in the ground cover of
                      subabul.Method is very simple we scatter seeds of crop in the standing cover
                      of Subabul and when see that crop germinate sufficiently we cut back
                      branches of Subabul and mulch on the germinating crop sparshly as Fukuoka
                      spreading Rice straws on germinating Wheat.
                      Raju

                      On 11/5/07, Robert Monie <bobm20001@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > Hi Dieter,
                      >
                      > Sababul is most probably the Leucaena leucocephala, also known as "Koa
                      > Haole" and
                      > White Leadtree. It is related to the acacia and generally considered
                      > invasive. A good photo and description appears at
                      > http://www.tradewindsfruit.com/koa_haole.htm and a bit more information at
                      > http://nerdatabank.nic.in/csireconomic.htm.
                      >
                      > In New Orleans, LA most landscapers do not plant acacia; the tree is too
                      > prone to insect invasion and destruction in our climate and soil.
                      >
                      > Bob Monie
                      >
                      > Dieter Brand <diebrand@... <diebrand%40yahoo.com>> wrote:
                      > Raju,
                      >
                      > Perhaps this has been mentioned before, but I have no recollection
                      > if it has. What acacia is "subabul"? Do you have a botanical name?
                      > Or is there a website with a description of the plant? Will it grow
                      > again when cut back to above the ground? Alternately, do you
                      > know of any acacia or other bush or small tree that will grow again
                      > after being cut back to the ground?
                      >
                      > Dieter
                      >
                      > Raju Titus <rajuktitus@... <rajuktitus%40gmail.com>> wrote:
                      > Dear friend,
                      > I am Raju Titus doing Fukuoka Farming in Hoshangabad M.P. India since
                      > 85-86.
                      > White clover is a natural weed in Japan it is leguminous. There is no such
                      > weed is available which grows in abundance in our place..So many indian
                      > leguminus variety of weeds /crops are available such as Berseem ,lucern
                      > etc.
                      > But Question is what for you are interested? Fukuoka is using this weed in
                      > his Rice?Wheat rotation field for Ground cover ,weed control,nitrogen
                      > fixing,insect control,water conservation, organic mulching etc.
                      > We tried so many varieties but found Subabul (acacia). Subabul is a
                      > strong,
                      > deep rooted ,wild and leguminous for above mentioned uses.I found no any
                      > natural weed cover which can solve this problem.
                      > Crops of grass variety do well in non- grass ground cover and leguminous
                      > crops do well in grass covered land.
                      > Therefore my advise is instead of elimination of weeds we must learn
                      > growing crops in natural weed cover of our area.
                      > Thanks
                      > Raju
                      >
                      > On 11/5/07, shashi.pkumar@... <shashi.pkumar%40wipro.com> <
                      > shashi.pkumar@... <shashi.pkumar%40wipro.com>> wrote:
                      > >
                      > > Dear Sir/List Members
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > Could you please let know local Indian name (Hindi, Kannada, or for that
                      > > matter any local Indian name) for white clover? Also, could you please
                      > let
                      > > know where will I get White Clover Seeds in India?
                      > >
                      > > Regards
                      > > Shashi
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      >
                      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      >
                      > __________________________________________________
                      > Do You Yahoo!?
                      > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
                      > http://mail.yahoo.com
                      >
                      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      >
                      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      >
                      >
                      >

                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





                      __________________________________________________
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                    • Nandan Palaparambil
                      Dear Shashi, This suggestion is based on reading and knowledge from this mailing list itself. Since your land is depleted you have to bring it to good
                      Message 10 of 26 , Nov 8, 2007
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                        Dear Shashi,

                        This suggestion is based on reading and knowledge from this mailing list itself.

                        Since your land is depleted you have to bring it to good condition before completely leaving it to itself. I think you have to mulch your entire land using leaves of different plants and you can apply some cowdung above this to increase the decomposition. Mulching is better done before the monsoon rains.




                        Regards,
                        Nandan

                        shashi.pkumar@... wrote:
                        Dear Rajuji,

                        Thank you very much for the reply.

                        Currently am exploring weeds/plans what can grow well in saline land, the reason for this has been describer below.

                        I bought 3 acres of (~1.2 hectares) of depleted land around 1 year back.

                        Observations: Most of the land is saline(80% of total land), fails to soak rain water, and is void vegetation/tree cover.

                        AIM: convert land good for sustainable agriculture

                        What was done: This monsoon I scattered horse gram (100 KG), daiyancha (local plant which generates lot of mulch, it is a di-cotyledon)(120KG) and jute (120 KG) seeds during this monsoon. Also scattered good amount of Glirisedia, Subabul, Thandadi seeds.

                        What else was done: Made a provision for logged water to drain out, hoping that it will take away the salinity.

                        Results: So far it has been mixed bag. Jute failed grow beyond few inches and died, daiyancha grew for around 1.5 to 2 feet and died and horse gram has grown ok (in about 20% of the land) but only in the non saline land.

                        Help I need: Please suggest/guide how can I get the land corrected may be in next couple of years. Please suggest a non chemical way of treating my land.

                        Thank you very much for your help.

                        Regards
                        Shashi

                        -----Original Message-----
                        From: fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com [mailto:fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Raju Titus
                        Sent: Monday, November 05, 2007 11:42 AM
                        To: fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com
                        Subject: Re: [fukuoka_farming] Clover - Indian Local Name

                        Dear friend,
                        I am Raju Titus doing Fukuoka Farming in Hoshangabad M.P. India since 85-86.
                        White clover is a natural weed in Japan it is leguminous. There is no such weed is available which grows in abundance in our place..So many indian leguminus variety of weeds /crops are available such as Berseem ,lucern etc.
                        But Question is what for you are interested? Fukuoka is using this weed in his Rice?Wheat rotation field for Ground cover ,weed control,nitrogen fixing,insect control,water conservation, organic mulching etc.
                        We tried so many varieties but found Subabul (acacia). Subabul is a strong, deep rooted ,wild and leguminous for above mentioned uses.I found no any natural weed cover which can solve this problem.
                        Crops of grass variety do well in non- grass ground cover and leguminous crops do well in grass covered land.
                        Therefore my advise is instead of elimination of weeds we must learn growing crops in natural weed cover of our area.
                        Thanks
                        Raju

                        On 11/5/07, shashi.pkumar@... <shashi.pkumar@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > Dear Sir/List Members
                        >
                        >
                        > Could you please let know local Indian name (Hindi, Kannada, or for
                        > that matter any local Indian name) for white clover? Also, could you
                        > please let know where will I get White Clover Seeds in India?
                        >
                        > Regards
                        > Shashi
                        >
                        >
                        >

                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                        Yahoo! Groups Links





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                      • Raju Titus
                        Dear friend Nandan, Any thing which cover land can be used as ground cover crop.Supposeyour land is covered by grass ,you can easily grow leguminous crops
                        Message 11 of 26 , Nov 8, 2007
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                          Dear friend Nandan,
                          Any thing which cover land can be used as ground cover
                          crop.Supposeyour land is covered by grass ,you can easily grow
                          leguminous crops like
                          Cow pea ,Black gram, Soybean etc. without tilling.
                          But for Wheat or any grass family grain, non grass cover is essential Cow
                          pea,Black gram,Soy been,Vecth etc. can be used as ground cover crop
                          seasonal.
                          .But we need permanent self seeding and growing variety as white clover and
                          Subabul which will cover land through out the year and will not allow any
                          weed to give problem.
                          "I want to share one story, one of my friend was very much worried about
                          strong local weed known as" Gajar grass".He was unable to take any crop
                          because of this weed.He asked me to do some thing. We explain him about
                          natural way of farming, he agreed for experimentation., we simply scattered
                          Soy been in the cover of Gajar grass in rainy season and ask them to cut
                          back Gajar grass after the germination of Soy been. He did accordingly, and
                          harvested better crop than near by farmers of village."

                          But next year he came back on modern scientific agriculture, with the
                          thought that if we can take good crop without doing any thing , we will get
                          more and more by doing more.This is the one of the reason for non adopting
                          Natural way of farming.
                          Nandan, Gajar grass is also spreading in Banglore.People are very much
                          against of this weed .People saying that this creating some diasease all
                          falls theory, I like it very much it can be used as ground cover in the
                          beginning later we can change as per our convenience.
                          RajuTitus







                          On 11/5/07, Nandan Palaparambil <p_k_nandanan@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > Dear Raju,
                          >
                          > Subabul does not provide any grains or fruits. Is it
                          > possible to use anything like Cowpea or blackgram ? At
                          > least I have heard of farmers using Cowpea in summer.
                          >
                          > Regards,
                          > Nandan
                          >
                          > --- Raju Titus <rajuktitus@... <rajuktitus%40gmail.com>> wrote:
                          >
                          > > Dear friend,
                          > > I am Raju Titus doing Fukuoka Farming in Hoshangabad
                          > > M.P. India since 85-86.
                          > > White clover is a natural weed in Japan it is
                          > > leguminous. There is no such
                          > > weed is available which grows in abundance in our
                          > > place..So many indian
                          > > leguminus variety of weeds /crops are available such
                          > > as Berseem ,lucern etc.
                          > > But Question is what for you are interested? Fukuoka
                          > > is using this weed in
                          > > his Rice?Wheat rotation field for Ground cover ,weed
                          > > control,nitrogen
                          > > fixing,insect control,water conservation, organic
                          > > mulching etc.
                          > > We tried so many varieties but found Subabul
                          > > (acacia). Subabul is a strong,
                          > > deep rooted ,wild and leguminous for above mentioned
                          > > uses.I found no any
                          > > natural weed cover which can solve this problem.
                          > > Crops of grass variety do well in non- grass ground
                          > > cover and leguminous
                          > > crops do well in grass covered land.
                          > > Therefore my advise is instead of elimination of
                          > > weeds we must learn
                          > > growing crops in natural weed cover of our area.
                          > > Thanks
                          > > Raju
                          > >
                          > > On 11/5/07, shashi.pkumar@... <shashi.pkumar%40wipro.com>
                          > > <shashi.pkumar@... <shashi.pkumar%40wipro.com>> wrote:
                          > > >
                          > > > Dear Sir/List Members
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > > Could you please let know local Indian name
                          > > (Hindi, Kannada, or for that
                          > > > matter any local Indian name) for white clover?
                          > > Also, could you please let
                          > > > know where will I get White Clover Seeds in India?
                          > > >
                          > > > Regards
                          > > > Shashi
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > [Non-text portions of this message have been
                          > > removed]
                          > >
                          > >
                          >
                          > __________________________________________________
                          > Do You Yahoo!?
                          > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
                          > http://mail.yahoo.com
                          >
                          >
                          >


                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • robin
                          dear raju titus, ... essential Cow ... clover and ... allow any ... scattered ... accordingly, and ... will get ... adopting ... *********and also this is a
                          Message 12 of 26 , Nov 11, 2007
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                            dear raju titus,

                            ****this is very important, in my opinion, and bears repeating...********

                            --- In fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com, "Raju Titus" <rajuktitus@...>
                            wrote:
                            >
                            > Dear friend Nandan,
                            > Any thing which cover land can be used as ground cover
                            > crop.Supposeyour land is covered by grass ,you can easily grow
                            > leguminous crops like
                            > Cow pea ,Black gram, Soybean etc. without tilling.
                            > But for Wheat or any grass family grain, non grass cover is
                            essential Cow
                            > pea,Black gram,Soy been,Vecth etc. can be used as ground cover crop
                            > seasonal.
                            > .But we need permanent self seeding and growing variety as white
                            clover and
                            > Subabul which will cover land through out the year and will not
                            allow any
                            > weed to give problem.
                            > "I want to share one story, one of my friend was very much worried about
                            > strong local weed known as" Gajar grass".He was unable to take any crop
                            > because of this weed.He asked me to do some thing. We explain him about
                            > natural way of farming, he agreed for experimentation., we simply
                            scattered
                            > Soy been in the cover of Gajar grass in rainy season and ask them to cut
                            > back Gajar grass after the germination of Soy been. He did
                            accordingly, and
                            > harvested better crop than near by farmers of village."
                            >
                            > But next year he came back on modern scientific agriculture, with the
                            > thought that if we can take good crop without doing any thing , we
                            will get
                            > more and more by doing more.This is the one of the reason for non
                            adopting
                            > Natural way of farming.
                            > Nandan, Gajar grass is also spreading in Banglore.People are very much
                            > against of this weed .People saying that this creating some diasease all
                            > falls theory, I like it very much it can be used as ground cover in the
                            > beginning later we can change as per our convenience.
                            > RajuTitus

                            *********and also this is a great photo series; it lets me know how nature
                            should look on a natural farm (the kind of natural farm that i'm
                            aiming for).**********

                            http://picasaweb.google.com/rajuktitus/Subabul

                            *******for those of us who feel a need to "take care of what i already
                            have" before buying additional plants and seeds i notice that there
                            are quite a few wild "scrub trees" like black locust, wild cherry,
                            persimmon, black walnut and several others whose names allude me right
                            now, coming up on my grounds, in places where i've stopped mowing.
                            (sorry, i don't know the scientific names either, but pretty much any
                            tree like this will work); they
                            seem to appear around tall weeds. when i come across one of these
                            seedlings, i try to favor it.

                            of course, the deer chew on these, which seems to stimulate more
                            shoots of these trees to come up (i call them my wolf trees). seems
                            like somewhere in "the natural way of farming", sensei fukuoka says to
                            encourage these whispy fast- growing shoots to grow, and then when
                            they get telephone-pole (height) size to fell them and mulch with
                            them. i have
                            found that when deer are allowed to chew/prune on your weeds and
                            trees, they spread low and makes the root stronger, making your soil
                            better and better. and some of these wolf trees outlast the deer and
                            spring up fast to get beyond the range of deer mouths.

                            it seems to me that underneath the ground the roots of the wolf trees
                            knit together the whole area, which makes the ground so stable, like
                            a rain forest. as you so wisely revealed, you can plant legumes where
                            the grass grows, and grass or grains where there are weeds, or mulched
                            areas, or legume filled areas. and plant your veggies where there are
                            lots of legumes. and the trees are so whispy, you get enough sun, to
                            plant crops under them. you just have to open it up some, ever so
                            often, to keep some sun coming in.

                            this summer i planted my cherry tomatoes in with the wild violet,
                            strawberries and wild strawberries and some variegated vinca and
                            didn't stake them. the tomatoes began to travel all over the tops of
                            this ground cover, touching down to the ground when they wanted to,
                            but being cushioned very well by this soft but vigorous ground cover.
                            i got hundreds of healthy happy cherry tomatoes off just one plant!

                            i've got lots of grass, so this week i'm going to shake some alfalfa,
                            hairy vetch and red clover seeds (these are sold at the seed store in
                            my location) around the grass clumps. whatever winter legumes that
                            they sell in your area will work just as well as extra leguminous
                            ground cover. you never
                            know when
                            conditions are perfect for winter legumes such as those.

                            whatever you have will work, just as you say, raju titus...it can be very
                            inexpensive, if you want it to be!***********robin******


                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                          • Nandan Palaparambil
                            Dear Raju, Exciting to know that Soyabean works well over the Gajar grass without any tilling..... It is true, the main reason why NF is not adopted is -
                            Message 13 of 26 , Nov 12, 2007
                            • 0 Attachment
                              Dear Raju,

                              Exciting to know that Soyabean works well over the
                              Gajar grass without any tilling.....

                              It is true, the main reason why NF is not adopted is -
                              people think they can harvest more with their
                              contribution and also they feel restless without doing
                              conventional activities in the farm

                              Gajar grass is widely called Parthenium in Bangalore
                              and is there on any land without building !!!. I
                              haven't tested it myself, but I have heard many
                              people/news paper report indicating that it is
                              allergic. Especially it flowers after the monsoon
                              rains and this is the allergy season in Bangalore, it
                              may be a coincidence also.


                              Regards,
                              Nandan

                              --- Raju Titus <rajuktitus@...> wrote:

                              > Dear friend Nandan,
                              > Any thing which cover land can be used as
                              > ground cover
                              > crop.Supposeyour land is covered by grass ,you can
                              > easily grow
                              > leguminous crops like
                              > Cow pea ,Black gram, Soybean etc. without tilling.
                              > But for Wheat or any grass family grain, non grass
                              > cover is essential Cow
                              > pea,Black gram,Soy been,Vecth etc. can be used as
                              > ground cover crop
                              > seasonal.
                              > .But we need permanent self seeding and growing
                              > variety as white clover and
                              > Subabul which will cover land through out the year
                              > and will not allow any
                              > weed to give problem.
                              > "I want to share one story, one of my friend was
                              > very much worried about
                              > strong local weed known as" Gajar grass".He was
                              > unable to take any crop
                              > because of this weed.He asked me to do some thing.
                              > We explain him about
                              > natural way of farming, he agreed for
                              > experimentation., we simply scattered
                              > Soy been in the cover of Gajar grass in rainy season
                              > and ask them to cut
                              > back Gajar grass after the germination of Soy been.
                              > He did accordingly, and
                              > harvested better crop than near by farmers of
                              > village."
                              >
                              > But next year he came back on modern scientific
                              > agriculture, with the
                              > thought that if we can take good crop without doing
                              > any thing , we will get
                              > more and more by doing more.This is the one of the
                              > reason for non adopting
                              > Natural way of farming.
                              > Nandan, Gajar grass is also spreading in
                              > Banglore.People are very much
                              > against of this weed .People saying that this
                              > creating some diasease all
                              > falls theory, I like it very much it can be used as
                              > ground cover in the
                              > beginning later we can change as per our
                              > convenience.
                              > RajuTitus
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > On 11/5/07, Nandan Palaparambil
                              > <p_k_nandanan@...> wrote:
                              > >
                              > > Dear Raju,
                              > >
                              > > Subabul does not provide any grains or fruits. Is
                              > it
                              > > possible to use anything like Cowpea or blackgram
                              > ? At
                              > > least I have heard of farmers using Cowpea in
                              > summer.
                              > >
                              > > Regards,
                              > > Nandan
                              > >
                              > > --- Raju Titus <rajuktitus@...
                              > <rajuktitus%40gmail.com>> wrote:
                              > >
                              > > > Dear friend,
                              > > > I am Raju Titus doing Fukuoka Farming in
                              > Hoshangabad
                              > > > M.P. India since 85-86.
                              > > > White clover is a natural weed in Japan it is
                              > > > leguminous. There is no such
                              > > > weed is available which grows in abundance in
                              > our
                              > > > place..So many indian
                              > > > leguminus variety of weeds /crops are available
                              > such
                              > > > as Berseem ,lucern etc.
                              > > > But Question is what for you are interested?
                              > Fukuoka
                              > > > is using this weed in
                              > > > his Rice?Wheat rotation field for Ground cover
                              > ,weed
                              > > > control,nitrogen
                              > > > fixing,insect control,water conservation,
                              > organic
                              > > > mulching etc.
                              > > > We tried so many varieties but found Subabul
                              > > > (acacia). Subabul is a strong,
                              > > > deep rooted ,wild and leguminous for above
                              > mentioned
                              > > > uses.I found no any
                              > > > natural weed cover which can solve this problem.
                              > > > Crops of grass variety do well in non- grass
                              > ground
                              > > > cover and leguminous
                              > > > crops do well in grass covered land.
                              > > > Therefore my advise is instead of elimination of
                              > > > weeds we must learn
                              > > > growing crops in natural weed cover of our area.
                              > > > Thanks
                              > > > Raju
                              > > >
                              > > > On 11/5/07, shashi.pkumar@...
                              > <shashi.pkumar%40wipro.com>
                              > > > <shashi.pkumar@...
                              > <shashi.pkumar%40wipro.com>> wrote:
                              > > > >
                              > > > > Dear Sir/List Members
                              > > > >
                              > > > >
                              > > > > Could you please let know local Indian name
                              > > > (Hindi, Kannada, or for that
                              > > > > matter any local Indian name) for white
                              > clover?
                              > > > Also, could you please let
                              > > > > know where will I get White Clover Seeds in
                              > India?
                              > > > >
                              > > > > Regards
                              > > > > Shashi
                              > > > >
                              > > > >
                              > > > >
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been
                              > > > removed]
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > >
                              > > __________________________________________________
                              > > Do You Yahoo!?
                              > > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam
                              > protection around
                              > > http://mail.yahoo.com
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              >
                              >
                              > [Non-text portions of this message have been
                              > removed]
                              >
                              >



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                            • karoubas
                              Dear Raju, Robin and all I also think what Raju has said is very important - and we thank him for it. But I have reservations/questions about the use of
                              Message 14 of 26 , Nov 19, 2007
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                                Dear Raju, Robin and all

                                I also think what Raju has said is very important - and we thank him
                                for it.

                                But I have reservations/questions about the use of Sababul acacia or
                                any fast spreading nitrogen fixing acacia, in a working farm.

                                Fukuoka-san from what I understand has a few Acacia
                                mearnsii on his farm - he does not use them as a ground cover - he
                                uses nitrogen fixing clovers - its great that this tree is so useful
                                to Raju, but many doubts remain in my mind about this path to ground
                                cover and nitrogen fixing. I will raise a few points, that I hope can
                                be discussed.

                                - it must be difficult to walk around on the farm with all the tree
                                stubs in the ground - as time goes by don't they become thick and
                                difficult to cut? when you cut them do you have to cut them just below
                                the soil ?

                                - if you decide you do not want to use them anymore -how on earth do
                                you get rid of them ?

                                - do you grow them even in areas where you grow your vegetables and
                                wheat ?

                                - don't all these tree stubs interfere with the farm operations -
                                fruit, vegetable and wheat/rice harvesting ?

                                Its a great and fast way to regenerate depleted land - but the main
                                purpose of a do nothing farm is to do as little as possible - not to
                                chase after tree stubs ?

                                These are some of my thoughts, and I put them out for discussion.


                                As an update the seeding projects here in Greece have gone well - the
                                weather has cooperated with plenty of rain - the seed balls I have
                                scattered at a nearby burned out forest, have small trees growing
                                which makes me very happy.

                                On my farm the seed balls have germinated - I am looking forward to
                                spring to see what will survive and grow.

                                Kostas













                                --- In fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com, "robin" <witchessocks@...> wrote:
                                >
                                > dear raju titus,
                                >
                                > ****this is very important, in my opinion, and bears
                                repeating...********
                                >
                                > --- In fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com, "Raju Titus" <rajuktitus@>
                                > wrote:
                                > >
                                > > Dear friend Nandan,
                                > > Any thing which cover land can be used as ground cover
                                > > crop.Supposeyour land is covered by grass ,you can easily grow
                                > > leguminous crops like
                                > > Cow pea ,Black gram, Soybean etc. without tilling.
                                > > But for Wheat or any grass family grain, non grass cover is
                                > essential Cow
                                > > pea,Black gram,Soy been,Vecth etc. can be used as ground cover crop
                                > > seasonal.
                                > > .But we need permanent self seeding and growing variety as white
                                > clover and
                                > > Subabul which will cover land through out the year and will not
                                > allow any
                                > > weed to give problem.
                                > > "I want to share one story, one of my friend was very much worried
                                about
                                > > strong local weed known as" Gajar grass".He was unable to take any
                                crop
                                > > because of this weed.He asked me to do some thing. We explain him
                                about
                                > > natural way of farming, he agreed for experimentation., we simply
                                > scattered
                                > > Soy been in the cover of Gajar grass in rainy season and ask them
                                to cut
                                > > back Gajar grass after the germination of Soy been. He did
                                > accordingly, and
                                > > harvested better crop than near by farmers of village."
                                > >
                                > > But next year he came back on modern scientific agriculture, with the
                                > > thought that if we can take good crop without doing any thing , we
                                > will get
                                > > more and more by doing more.This is the one of the reason for non
                                > adopting
                                > > Natural way of farming.
                                > > Nandan, Gajar grass is also spreading in Banglore.People are very much
                                > > against of this weed .People saying that this creating some
                                diasease all
                                > > falls theory, I like it very much it can be used as ground cover
                                in the
                                > > beginning later we can change as per our convenience.
                                > > RajuTitus
                                >
                                > *********and also this is a great photo series; it lets me know how
                                nature
                                > should look on a natural farm (the kind of natural farm that i'm
                                > aiming for).**********
                                >
                                > http://picasaweb.google.com/rajuktitus/Subabul
                                >
                                > *******for those of us who feel a need to "take care of what i already
                                > have" before buying additional plants and seeds i notice that there
                                > are quite a few wild "scrub trees" like black locust, wild cherry,
                                > persimmon, black walnut and several others whose names allude me right
                                > now, coming up on my grounds, in places where i've stopped mowing.
                                > (sorry, i don't know the scientific names either, but pretty much any
                                > tree like this will work); they
                                > seem to appear around tall weeds. when i come across one of these
                                > seedlings, i try to favor it.
                                >
                                > of course, the deer chew on these, which seems to stimulate more
                                > shoots of these trees to come up (i call them my wolf trees). seems
                                > like somewhere in "the natural way of farming", sensei fukuoka says to
                                > encourage these whispy fast- growing shoots to grow, and then when
                                > they get telephone-pole (height) size to fell them and mulch with
                                > them. i have
                                > found that when deer are allowed to chew/prune on your weeds and
                                > trees, they spread low and makes the root stronger, making your soil
                                > better and better. and some of these wolf trees outlast the deer and
                                > spring up fast to get beyond the range of deer mouths.
                                >
                                > it seems to me that underneath the ground the roots of the wolf trees
                                > knit together the whole area, which makes the ground so stable, like
                                > a rain forest. as you so wisely revealed, you can plant legumes where
                                > the grass grows, and grass or grains where there are weeds, or mulched
                                > areas, or legume filled areas. and plant your veggies where there are
                                > lots of legumes. and the trees are so whispy, you get enough sun, to
                                > plant crops under them. you just have to open it up some, ever so
                                > often, to keep some sun coming in.
                                >
                                > this summer i planted my cherry tomatoes in with the wild violet,
                                > strawberries and wild strawberries and some variegated vinca and
                                > didn't stake them. the tomatoes began to travel all over the tops of
                                > this ground cover, touching down to the ground when they wanted to,
                                > but being cushioned very well by this soft but vigorous ground cover.
                                > i got hundreds of healthy happy cherry tomatoes off just one plant!
                                >
                                > i've got lots of grass, so this week i'm going to shake some alfalfa,
                                > hairy vetch and red clover seeds (these are sold at the seed store in
                                > my location) around the grass clumps. whatever winter legumes that
                                > they sell in your area will work just as well as extra leguminous
                                > ground cover. you never
                                > know when
                                > conditions are perfect for winter legumes such as those.
                                >
                                > whatever you have will work, just as you say, raju titus...it can be
                                very
                                > inexpensive, if you want it to be!***********robin******
                                >
                                >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                >
                              • robin
                                dear kostas, do you have a copy of the natural way of farming? in the section on the practice of natural farming fukuoka-san discusses using many types of
                                Message 15 of 26 , Nov 20, 2007
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                                  dear kostas,

                                  do you have a copy of "the natural way of farming? in the section on
                                  "the practice of natural farming" fukuoka-san discusses using many
                                  types of trees, including nitrogen-fixing trees, as part of his fruit
                                  tree orchards (in which he also planted his vegetables). i guess the
                                  term ground cover may have been mistakenly used (by me) in reference
                                  to pea-family trees. he still used clover as ground cover on the
                                  orchard floor along with manageable weeds.

                                  i don't believe he used these trees in his rice and barley fields at
                                  all, only clover and other small legumes. i don't know about his other
                                  grains right off the top of my head including wheat, where he put
                                  those. myself, i mix wheat seeds right in with my seed mixtures and
                                  they grow wherever, sometimes in drifts, sometimes singly. but if you
                                  are selling your wheat or need a big field of it, obviously you would
                                  have to have them in field of their own.

                                  my mind is not good enough to explain these types of questions myself,
                                  but here is a bit of what fukuoka-san says about a fruit tree orchard;

                                  "the same methods used in reforestation can also be used to plant
                                  fruit trees and set up an orchard. one should not clear and smooth the
                                  land with a bulldozer because this disturbs the humus-rich topsoil
                                  built up over a long period of time. land developed with a bulldozer
                                  and left virtually bare for ten years is washed free of it's topsoil,
                                  greatly shortening the economic life of the farm. rather than carting
                                  the trunks, branches, and leaves of felled trees off a contour cleared
                                  orchard site, it makes more sense to arrange this material along
                                  contour lines and wait for it to decompose naturally. the branches
                                  leaves, and roots of the trees decompose after several years, becoming
                                  a source of organic fertilizer that supplies nutrients to the growing
                                  fruit trees. at the same time a cover of organic matter helps to curb
                                  weed growth, prevent soil washout, stimulates the proliferation of
                                  microorganisms, and serves to enrich and otherwise improve the soil.

                                  "because tree branches and leaves when land is cleared interfere
                                  with farming operations, these are generally burned. but, like slash
                                  and burn agriculture, this sends the fertility of the land up in
                                  flames. as for tree roots, these work their way down to the deepest
                                  soil strata, contributing physically to the aggregation and structure
                                  of the soil. in addition, they also serve as a nutrient source and
                                  have a chelating action that solubilizes insoluble nutrients in the
                                  soil. if such valuable organic matter is dug up and disposed of when
                                  the land is cleared, this drastically changes natural conditions and
                                  so damages the soil that it unable to recover, even if holes are later
                                  dug in the ground and the same amount of organic matter returned".

                                  yes, it may be very inconvenient to have tree stubs everywhere,
                                  depending on your choice of farm machines, but, since fukuoka-san only
                                  used small hand tools, i guess it was not too much of a problem for him.

                                  of course, i'm just starting out, so i don't know much about farm
                                  efficiency.just the little bit i've observed over say 3 years and
                                  reading fukuoka-san books and looking up natural farming on the web
                                  and this group. i could very well be ignorant and wrong about many
                                  things. i may have misunderstood what fukuoka-san is saying. but i'm
                                  pretty sure that it is true that this is *a* method of natural
                                  farming, not
                                  necessarily *the* method. and this method of fukuoka-san's is a very
                                  good and well-tested method for the conditions and topography that his
                                  and many other regions have.

                                  i noticed when i felled a series of "tree of heaven" trees (which i
                                  wanted to get rid of) in an area, the ground changed over about two
                                  years. i had to pull the suckers, they become less over time, the
                                  stumps began to decompose, and the ground kind of sunk and formed
                                  small valleys in between the stumps. the border soil around this area
                                  spread out and settled. the soil sinks away from a rotten stump. i'm
                                  still observing the plants that seem to grow in these little valleys,
                                  so far it's clover, alfalfa, grasses, wild strawberry, onions, and
                                  really, everything that i've planted in terms of legumes and easily
                                  germinated plants (turnips, mustards, buckwheat, rye). i'm going to
                                  plant native, cereal, ornamental, indian and forage grasses, and their
                                  companion plants, in the spring and see how they do. mine is not a
                                  working farm at this time, but i'm working toward a grasses-based farm
                                  (it's a girl or an artist thing. ha!just kidding).grasses do well in
                                  lots of mulch. fast growing trees supply the leaves, branches, the
                                  mulch that i need. and the grasses growing near trees and stumps are
                                  very healthy looking. can anyone tell me anything that i need to know
                                  about growing grasses? i'm sure i'm still missing most of the
                                  concepts.but i'll keep trying to find out.

                                  kostas,congrajulations on your seedball successes! what seeds did you
                                  include
                                  in the seedballs? just curious.

                                  i've already been on here too long, but i'd like to come back later
                                  and relate what fukuoka-san says about black wattle (an acacia) and
                                  it's uses and
                                  benefits (in focus to your questions).*********robin***********

                                  --- In fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com, "karoubas" <karoubas@...> wrote:
                                  >
                                  > Dear Raju, Robin and all
                                  >
                                  > I also think what Raju has said is very important - and we thank him
                                  > for it.
                                  >
                                  > But I have reservations/questions about the use of Sababul acacia or
                                  > any fast spreading nitrogen fixing acacia, in a working farm.
                                  >
                                  > Fukuoka-san from what I understand has a few Acacia
                                  > mearnsii on his farm - he does not use them as a ground cover - he
                                  > uses nitrogen fixing clovers - its great that this tree is so useful
                                  > to Raju, but many doubts remain in my mind about this path to ground
                                  > cover and nitrogen fixing. I will raise a few points, that I hope can
                                  > be discussed.
                                  >
                                  > - it must be difficult to walk around on the farm with all the tree
                                  > stubs in the ground - as time goes by don't they become thick and
                                  > difficult to cut? when you cut them do you have to cut them just below
                                  > the soil ?
                                  >
                                  > - if you decide you do not want to use them anymore -how on earth do
                                  > you get rid of them ?
                                  >
                                  > - do you grow them even in areas where you grow your vegetables and
                                  > wheat ?
                                  >
                                  > - don't all these tree stubs interfere with the farm operations -
                                  > fruit, vegetable and wheat/rice harvesting ?
                                  >
                                  > Its a great and fast way to regenerate depleted land - but the main
                                  > purpose of a do nothing farm is to do as little as possible - not to
                                  > chase after tree stubs ?
                                  >
                                  > These are some of my thoughts, and I put them out for discussion.
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > As an update the seeding projects here in Greece have gone well - the
                                  > weather has cooperated with plenty of rain - the seed balls I have
                                  > scattered at a nearby burned out forest, have small trees growing
                                  > which makes me very happy.
                                  >
                                  > On my farm the seed balls have germinated - I am looking forward to
                                  > spring to see what will survive and grow.
                                  >
                                  > Kostas
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                • Dieter Brand
                                  Kostas, I think that perennials like acacias are particularly useful in hot and arid climates where annuals will go dry for part of the year. During the dry
                                  Message 16 of 26 , Nov 21, 2007
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                                    Kostas,

                                    I think that perennials like acacias are particularly useful in hot
                                    and arid climates where annuals will go dry for part of the year.
                                    During the dry part of the year, the perennials continue to
                                    produce biomass and prevent weeds from getting out of hand.
                                    I’m not convinced that N-fixing of acacias or other leguminous
                                    trees is that important. N volatizes quickly, and if not immediately
                                    used by a crop it will either benefit the weeds or disappear. Also,
                                    it is hardly likely that the N fixed by acacias will be spread evenly
                                    across the whole field. If you want to boost the growth of your
                                    crop, it is far better to grow a legume like vetch, lupines or clover
                                    prior to growing your crop. I have never come across any data
                                    regarding the amount of N fixed by acacias or information about
                                    when this N is made available to other plants. Anyway, what I
                                    want to say with this long introduction is that, in a hot and dry
                                    climate, any perennial (bush, shrub, tree or perennial grass) that
                                    will grow well in that climate is suitable for producing the biomass
                                    whose carbon and other nutrients will build soil organic matter
                                    and improve soil quality over the long run. This is more important
                                    than the N fixed by acacias.

                                    Regarding how to use perennials in agriculture, I can imagine
                                    a number of scenarios:
                                    A) Litter from a few large trees in the fields aliments the soil and
                                    suppresses weeds. After sowing a crop, some of the branches are cut
                                    to cover the seeds and to let in more sunlight. What needs to be tested
                                    is to what degree germination and crop growth will be inhibited by
                                    the trees and their leaves.
                                    B) A crop is broadcast into native shrubs or low growing bushes and
                                    trees. The shrubs etc. are then cut to cover the seeds. This works
                                    well, but can’t be practiced every year, since the native shrubs usually
                                    take at least two years to grow again from seed.
                                    C) Shrubs, low-growing bushes or perennial grasses (vetiver grass has
                                    been mentioned) that will grow again after cutting are planted in rows.
                                    The crop is sown between the rows and the perennials are either cut to
                                    the ground or as a low hedge. The cuttings will cover the seeds and
                                    feed the soil. What needs to be tested is to what degree the roots of
                                    the perennials, that keep on growing, will interfere with the crop. It
                                    always comes down to what combination of plants to chose.

                                    There are probably other ways of using perennials in agriculture.

                                    Dieter Brand
                                    Portugal



                                    ---------------------------------
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                                  • yarrow@sfo.com
                                    At 2:37 PM +0000 11/20/07, robin wrote: .... i m going to plant native, cereal, ornamental, indian and forage grasses, and their companion plants, in the
                                    Message 17 of 26 , Dec 2, 2007
                                    • 0 Attachment
                                      At 2:37 PM +0000 11/20/07, robin wrote:
                                      .... i'm going to
                                      plant native, cereal, ornamental, indian and forage grasses, and their
                                      companion plants, in the spring and see how they do. mine is not a
                                      working farm at this time, but i'm working toward a grasses-based farm
                                      (it's a girl or an artist thing. ha!just kidding).grasses do well in
                                      lots of mulch. fast growing trees supply the leaves, branches, the
                                      mulch that i need. and the grasses growing near trees and stumps are
                                      very healthy looking. can anyone tell me anything that i need to know
                                      about growing grasses? i'm sure i'm still missing most of the
                                      concepts.but i'll keep trying to find out.
                                      ....


                                      For info on growing grasses, look into the Land Institute in Kansas,
                                      which is mentioned in this article on perennial wheat:


                                      http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2007/11/24/HOFKT0670.DTL

                                      The potential for growing food from perennial crops

                                      Deborah K. Rich, Special to The Chronicle

                                      Saturday, November 24, 2007

                                      Perennial crops have great potential. Yet they hardly figure in the
                                      world's calorie consumption.

                                      The world's major grains, food legumes and oilseeds - including all
                                      of its wheat, rice, corn, barley, soybeans, cottonseed and dry beans
                                      - are annuals. These crops covered 80 percent of harvested cropland
                                      in 2004.

                                      A food system based upon plants that start each growing season anew
                                      from seeds is inherently risky.

                                      Farmers' efforts to reduce the risk often degrade soil and water and
                                      accelerate the buildup of greenhouse gasses.

                                      Many crop seeds won't germinate if the soil is too hot, cold, wet,
                                      dry, crowded or full of clods. With plow and disc, farmers clear the
                                      soil of weeds and debris and slice it into a fine crumb. If it's a
                                      spring planting, they wait for the soil to warm. For a fall planting,
                                      they wait for it to cool. In the arid West, farmers "irrigate up"
                                      before planting; in the changeable Midwest, they squeeze in planting
                                      between thunderstorms.

                                      Weeds enjoy the farmers' carefully prepared seedbed just as much as
                                      crops. Farmers cultivate, spray herbicides or hoe to keep weeds under
                                      control while their crops get established.

                                      There is a beginning for perennials as well, complete with seedbed
                                      and coddling of seedlings. But the initial soil disturbance and
                                      fieldwork pay off for several years.

                                      Alfalfa, a legume grown for animal feed, often produces for five
                                      years or more. Without the need to disc and plant each year, tractor
                                      use is less, fuel use declines and the soil suffers less degradation.

                                      Agroecologist Jerry Glover of the Land Institute demonstrates the
                                      power of perennial plants.

                                      Arms outstretched, he holds up a clump of annual wheat in one hand
                                      and a handful of wild perennial wheatgrass in the other. While the
                                      slender roots hanging from the clump of wheat fall barely to Glover's
                                      elbow, the boisterous tangle of wheatgrass roots tumbles down to his
                                      feet.

                                      "You can visualize roots as a series of safety nets for the soil," he
                                      says. "Safety nets not only with depth, but extending over time."

                                      Within the first year of planting, the roots of perennial crops leave
                                      little room for weeds. Glover thinks that a reduction in herbicide
                                      costs of four to 8 1/2 times is a conservative estimate.

                                      "I have 5-year-old wheatgrass plots that are weed-free and have never
                                      had herbicides," says Glover. That saves money, reduces tractor
                                      passes and benefits environmental health.

                                      Perennial crops extend the growing season, partly by already being in
                                      the ground as winter is ending. In states such as Kansas, where the
                                      Land Institute is located, it isn't unusual for only half the days in
                                      a month to be suitable for planting.

                                      Perennials start growing first. "Root activity can take place at much
                                      cooler temperatures than seeds can germinate," he said.

                                      They also stretch out the growing season. In late September, Glover's
                                      wheatgrass had already regrown 4 to 6 inches after being harvested in
                                      August while he waits to reseed his wheat field.

                                      "Our annual winter wheat won't do well at all in July or August,"
                                      says Glover. "It doesn't even matter if we can get the seed to
                                      germinate; the winter wheat just can't grow in those temperatures,
                                      and the surface of the soil is too dry for the seedlings. Yet our
                                      perennial wheatgrass, because its roots are deep down, is able to
                                      reach where the soil is more buffered against extremes in temperature
                                      and moisture."

                                      Reaching deep into the soil year-round, perennial roots make more
                                      efficient use of nitrogen inputs, half of which can leach out of the
                                      root zone before plants can make use of it.

                                      "Nitrogen in the soil typically moves with water," says Glover. "You
                                      don't want to have water flowing through the system unused. Picture
                                      Iowa in April or May. There's no crop growing because it's too cold,
                                      but yet they're getting a lot of rainfall."

                                      Not only are nitrate losses a waste of an expensive input - the price
                                      of nitrogen is on the rise along with the price of oil - nitrates
                                      draining into waterways fuel the spread of coastal dead zones.

                                      Spring and summer nitrate flows out the mouth of the Mississippi
                                      River cause massive algae blooms that rob the water of oxygen and
                                      create dead zones in the Gulf of Mexico.

                                      The perennial web of roots holds onto more than nitrogen.

                                      The roots anchor the soil and reduce erosion. A study begun in 1888
                                      at the University of Missouri measured the depth of topsoil remaining
                                      after 100 years of continuous farming.

                                      Topsoil under plots of perennial timothy grass (a crop cut for hay)
                                      was more than two times deeper than the topsoil remaining under
                                      annual corn, and almost 1 1/2 times deeper than the topsoil remaining
                                      under a six-year rotation of corn, oats, wheat, clover and timothy
                                      grass.

                                      With the world's population growing, agriculture must anchor all the
                                      soil it can as ever more marginal land is pushed into production.

                                      "We get away with a lot here in North America because our soils are
                                      so rich, fertile and deep. The thinner or more poor your soils are,
                                      the more you need perennials there to safeguard them," says Glover.

                                      Conversion to perennials cannot happen overnight.

                                      The Land Institute began its perennial breeding programs in 2000.
                                      Today it has four breeders and total funding of approximately $2
                                      million.

                                      Glover estimates that the institute is probably at least 25 years out
                                      from having a high-yielding perennial substitute for a major grain.
                                      The world may come asking for seed sooner.

                                      "How far out we are from having a product partly depends on
                                      expectations," says Glover. "Our wheatgrass, for example, right now
                                      out-yields some of the world's minor annual crops, such as Ethiopian
                                      teff, in a good year. Also, for some of the non-food-crop oilseeds,
                                      you don't have all the taste and handling requirements that you have
                                      for wheat. You want a very consistent bread, but for oil you're more
                                      flexible. And how far we are from a commercially viable crop will
                                      partly depend upon world resources."

                                      This article appeared on page F - 9 of the San Francisco Chronicle

                                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                    • pattyloof
                                      ... http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2007/11/24/HOFKT0670.DTL I looked around and discovered that this is Thinopyrum intermedium, or
                                      Message 18 of 26 , Dec 4, 2007
                                      • 0 Attachment
                                        --- In fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com, yarrow@... wrote:

                                        > For info on growing grasses, look into the Land Institute in Kansas,
                                        > which is mentioned in this article on perennial wheat:
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2007/11/24/HOFKT0670.DTL


                                        I looked around and discovered that this is Thinopyrum intermedium, or
                                        intermediate wheatgrass, a perennial hardy to -38F !

                                        I'm having trouble finding a seed source though. Anyone know where you
                                        can get this?

                                        Patty
                                        Oklahoma, USA
                                      • Robert Monie
                                        Hi Patty, You can get two varieties of Thinopyrum intermedium from Stock Seed Farms in Murdock, Nebraska. Call them at 1-800-759-1520. Both are perennial and
                                        Message 19 of 26 , Dec 4, 2007
                                        • 0 Attachment
                                          Hi Patty,

                                          You can get two varieties of Thinopyrum intermedium from Stock Seed Farms in
                                          Murdock, Nebraska. Call them at 1-800-759-1520. Both are perennial and both make good sod.

                                          Bob Monie
                                          New Orleans, La
                                          Zone 8



                                          pattyloof <pattyloof@...> wrote:
                                          --- In fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com, yarrow@... wrote:

                                          > For info on growing grasses, look into the Land Institute in Kansas,
                                          > which is mentioned in this article on perennial wheat:
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2007/11/24/HOFKT0670.DTL

                                          I looked around and discovered that this is Thinopyrum intermedium, or
                                          intermediate wheatgrass, a perennial hardy to -38F !

                                          I'm having trouble finding a seed source though. Anyone know where you
                                          can get this?

                                          Patty
                                          Oklahoma, USA






                                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                        • Robert Monie
                                          Hi Patty, You can get two varieties of Thinopyrum intermedium from Stock Seed Farms in Murdock, Nebraska. Call them at 1-800-759-1520. Both are perennial and
                                          Message 20 of 26 , Dec 4, 2007
                                          • 0 Attachment
                                            Hi Patty,

                                            You can get two varieties of Thinopyrum intermedium from Stock Seed Farms in
                                            Murdock, Nebraska. Call them at 1-800-759-1520. Both are perennial and both make good sod.

                                            Bob Monie
                                            New Orleans, La
                                            Zone 8



                                            pattyloof <pattyloof@...> wrote:
                                            --- In fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com, yarrow@... wrote:

                                            > For info on growing grasses, look into the Land Institute in Kansas,
                                            > which is mentioned in this article on perennial wheat:
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2007/11/24/HOFKT0670.DTL

                                            I looked around and discovered that this is Thinopyrum intermedium, or
                                            intermediate wheatgrass, a perennial hardy to -38F !

                                            I'm having trouble finding a seed source though. Anyone know where you
                                            can get this?

                                            Patty
                                            Oklahoma, USA






                                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                          • pattyloof
                                            Thank you! Patty ... Seed Farms in ... perennial and both make good sod. ... http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2007/11/24/HOFKT0670.DTL
                                            Message 21 of 26 , Dec 5, 2007
                                            • 0 Attachment
                                              Thank you!

                                              Patty

                                              --- In fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com, Robert Monie <bobm20001@...>
                                              wrote:
                                              >
                                              > Hi Patty,
                                              >
                                              > You can get two varieties of Thinopyrum intermedium from Stock
                                              Seed Farms in
                                              > Murdock, Nebraska. Call them at 1-800-759-1520. Both are
                                              perennial and both make good sod.
                                              >
                                              > Bob Monie
                                              > New Orleans, La
                                              > Zone 8
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              > pattyloof <pattyloof@...> wrote:
                                              > --- In fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com, yarrow@ wrote:
                                              >
                                              > > For info on growing grasses, look into the Land Institute in Kansas,
                                              > > which is mentioned in this article on perennial wheat:
                                              > >
                                              > >
                                              > >
                                              >
                                              http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2007/11/24/HOFKT0670.DTL
                                              >
                                              > I looked around and discovered that this is Thinopyrum intermedium, or
                                              > intermediate wheatgrass, a perennial hardy to -38F !
                                              >
                                              > I'm having trouble finding a seed source though. Anyone know where you
                                              > can get this?
                                              >
                                              > Patty
                                              > Oklahoma, USA
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                              >
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