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Re: [fukuoka_farming] Dryland Mangement

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  • francisco
    robin I live south of barcelona and mow arround the trees rather than dig. mowing and leaving the mown vegetation lying on tpo of the soil stops erosion and
    Message 1 of 16 , May 23, 2002
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      robin
      I live south of barcelona and mow arround the trees rather than dig.
      mowing and leaving the mown vegetation lying on tpo of the soil stops
      erosion and the soil improves no end.
      francisco

      Dear Robin:
      For cleared abandoned land here, which looked as if it had been
      strip mined, and which could not hold water, or grow anything, --just
      terminal hard pan and rocks, I used super absorbent polymers (SAPs) from
      Watersorb. They do ship internationally. They are cheap, hold water
      well, and convert (photodegrade) to nitrogen in about 7 years. These
      have been used to grow crops in areas which have 5-7 inches of rain a
      year. If hand broadcast, they can create small swamps, so I recommend
      using a spreader. They also help in erosion control. It's cheating, but
      I was desperate. Jack.

      "Robin Fernández-Medina" wrote:

      >
      > Hello Everyone,
      > I live in the South of Spain bordering the Meditteranean. I bought 12
      > thousand m2 of olive and almond orchards and am making an effort to
      > convert to a permaculture farm, and apply Fukuokas ideas where
      > possible. I find that tilling here is normal for fire control but
      > taxes the soil considerably with sunburn and dryness in our 40 degree
      > cent. summer temperature. I would like to interplant other trees in
      > the vicinity of these and also shoot for some wheat in the fall and
      > spring interplanted of the clearings of olive.I am planting Thick
      > cactus on the fire prone borders and using rock piles and Ficus trees
      > to buffer hot wind.
      > I wanted to know if anyone else out there has worked with similar
      > lands, or dryland members who I could exchange Ideas with.
      > Regards,
      > Robin
      > burt levy <redbudburt@...> wrote:
      > --Probably the best thing to do with the goats would
      > be to keep them in their portable pens while they are
      > working. Then have a nice sized fenced off turn out to
      > put them in. Goat proofing would entail fencing off
      > your garden area and any other plants that you would
      > want to keep. I think that would be a bit much. A good
      > sized turn out where they could run around would be
      > better. The fencing would need to be about 6ft. high
      > to ensure that they couldn't jumpout. I don't have
      > goats,but the park dept. here uses goats to eat non
      > native plants like Himalayian blackberries, and to
      > keep the poisin oak under control. Also my neighbor
      > has a flop eared goat that eats his poisin oak. I
      > think any goats will do.
      > Carol wrote asking when could you pet the goats
      > after they eat the poisin oak/ivy. Well you probably
      > wouldn't be able to for at least a couple of weeks.
      > However if they were able to be able to get rid of
      > these plants then the problem would be solved.
      > Remember that you would be using the goats to do a
      > job. Once their job was done then you could treat them
      > more like pets. Otherwise you could use gloves to pet
      > them if you want to. This type of thing is in line
      > with using the animals natural instncts and abilities
      > for your benefit.Either pets or livestock. Chickens
      > for eggs and bug control. Dogs for security, cats for
      > pest control. Goats to keep down unwanted vegetation
      > etc.A natural way to shape your land with out damaging
      > the environment. This I belive is one of the
      > foundations of permaculture and there probably are
      > books about it and info. on the web for it.- Allan
      > Balliett <igg@...> wrote:
      > > Burt -
      > >
      > > Would you mind elaborating on this wonderful concept
      > > of 'goat proofing'?
      > >
      > > What does it involve?
      > >
      > > What sort of goats do you work with?
      > >
      > > -Allan
      > >
      > > >-You could try different animals for control.
      > > Goats,
      > > >llamas, burros. You could put the goats in a
      > > portable
      > > >pen and put them into poisin oak patches and
      > > they'll
      > > >eat it no problem. You would want to put them in
      > > >portable pens to keep them safe, and keep them from
      > > >eating everything else on your property. Or you
      > > could
      > > >goat proof the stuff that you don't want to be
      > > eaten
      > > >and let them run loose. You could do the same with
      > > >llamas and burros. -- tobeonmyown
      > > <neljer@...>
      > > >wrote:
      > > >> Greetings all,
      > > >>
      > > >> Where do I begin, for I'm sure this question
      > > plagues
      > > >> many? We bought
      > > >> this sixteen acre spot many years ago and have
      > > done
      > > >> little with it
      > > >> other than mow ocassionally. Years ago we hand
      > > >> broadcast bermuda and
      > > >> rye grass seed to help cover this very sandy
      > > soil.
      > > >> Some years we
      > > >> mowed more and some years we left it alone to go
      > > to
      > > >> seed and it has
      > > >> filled in nicely. Our most immediate concern is
      > > how
      > > >> to deal with
      > > >> poison ivy and poison oak. This year seems to be
      > > the
      > > >> worst and makes
      > > >> working around the place most difficult. I look
      > > >> forward to any
      > > >> suggestions or observations...
      > > >>
      > > >>
      > > >
      > > >
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    • souscayrous
      Jack wrote: The real point is to improve oneself while improving land. Cultivation and self cultivation. What one can imagine is what one can make, and then
      Message 2 of 16 , May 27, 2002
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        Jack wrote:

        "The real point is to improve oneself while improving land. Cultivation and
        self cultivation. What one can imagine is what one can make, and then one
        can live in a much more beautiful and productive environment, which in turn
        can inspire us to see more, and to create more beauty in the land, and
        sort of reflectively, in ourselves."


        I couldn't agree more: and well put.
        However, I personally would resist the natural desire inherent in this
        codependent creation of beauty (man and nature), to slowly exclude the
        outside world.

        "He needed the buffer of the garden between him and the world outside the
        garden, to live in his personal beauty, and to see and to create."

        Beauty is a human construct, part of a social endeavour. A truly beautiful
        natural garden or farm would be the best way to teach natural farming
        techniques. Rather than exclude the outside world, I think we should do all
        we can to bring people and involve them in what we do.


        Souscayrous...(sorry for the late response but the phone line has been down
        for a week)






        -----Original Message-----
        From: Jack Finefroc [mailto:finefroc@...]
        Sent: Thursday, May 23, 2002 4:04 PM
        To: fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com; Heithaus@...;
        RooteN@...
        Subject: Re: [fukuoka_farming] Dryland Mangement
      • Jack Finefroc
        Dear Souscayrous: Thank you for your kind message. I think the balance between inclusion and exclusion of the world, is a day by day balance, or even a minute
        Message 3 of 16 , May 28, 2002
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          Dear Souscayrous:
          Thank you for your kind message. I think the balance between
          inclusion and exclusion of the world, is a day by day balance, or even a
          minute by minute balance. At different times one is more or less
          sensitive, vunerable, or creative, and these states can take different
          tempos of engagment or disengagement at different times. Silence is a
          friend in the garden, and personal example can speak loudly and
          convincingly without words. Although, I would like to convince others of
          what I'm doing, I first have to convince myself. And I am blundering
          along, making ridiculous mistakes, not knowing what I should know to do
          this, and not at all convinced that what I am doing is right. In fact, I
          am amazed when something works! The garden helps me recover from work,
          and to return to work, and to my house, a better person, usually. It's
          perspective that the garden and time in the garden give. I don't know if
          one can exclude the world; reality comes and batters down the doors of
          reverie. And now to help unload a truck, except that the phone rang.
          Jack.

          souscayrous wrote:

          > Jack wrote:
          >
          > "The real point is to improve oneself while improving land.
          > Cultivation and
          > self cultivation. What one can imagine is what one can make, and then
          > one
          > can live in a much more beautiful and productive environment, which in
          > turn
          > can inspire us to see more, and to create more beauty in the land,
          > and
          > sort of reflectively, in ourselves."
          >
          >
          > I couldn't agree more: and well put.
          > However, I personally would resist the natural desire inherent
          > in this
          > codependent creation of beauty (man and nature), to slowly exclude the
          >
          > outside world.
          >
          > "He needed the buffer of the garden between him and the world
          > outside the
          > garden, to live in his personal beauty, and to see and to create."
          >
          > Beauty is a human construct, part of a social endeavour. A truly
          > beautiful
          > natural garden or farm would be the best way to teach natural farming
          > techniques. Rather than exclude the outside world, I think we should
          > do all
          > we can to bring people and involve them in what we do.
          >
          >
          > Souscayrous...(sorry for the late response but the phone line has been
          > down
          > for a week)
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > -----Original Message-----
          > From: Jack Finefroc [mailto:finefroc@...]
          > Sent: Thursday, May 23, 2002 4:04 PM
          > To: fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com; Heithaus@...;
          > RooteN@...
          > Subject: Re: [fukuoka_farming] Dryland Mangement
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
          > fukuoka_farming-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
          >
          >
          >
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