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Re: fire in greece, attacks in india

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  • karoubas
    Both Laws here in Greece are written in such ways that in fact encourage the setting of fires. I will explain. If you own a piece of land (say 10,000 square
    Message 1 of 12 , Sep 10, 2007
      Both
      Laws here in Greece are written in such ways that in fact encourage
      the setting of fires.

      I will explain.

      If you own a piece of land (say 10,000 square meters) that you have
      not farmed or used for years, and that land is now half covered with
      pine trees, you can only develop the 5,000 square meters – you are not
      allowed by law to cut trees or develop the 5,000 square meters
      forested land. If however there is a forest fire, you can legally
      develop the entire lot.

      As often happens, land that was useless 30 years ago becomes very
      valuable over a period of time – if there is no fire the land may be
      worth 400,000 euros – if there is a forest fire the land will be worth
      800,000 euros or more. That's a lot of money for a greedy – lazy
      person. This explains why fires start simultaneously in 20 different
      places in one area.

      Add to this that there is no national land registry that defines
      exactly what is publicly owned and what is private.

      Also add the total incompetence or unwillingness of the government to
      put out even small fires, and you have an inferno that we are all
      going to pay for it – its so easy to destroy something – it only takes
      a second to start a fire and burn thousands of trees– but try planting
      thousands of trees – it takes years and time.

      The local farmers put out most of the fires; they spend many days
      without sleep trying to save their homes, olive trees, and yes the
      forests – without help.

      So it's not a conspiracy theory – I wish it was, and that this entire
      inferno was a natural event. But the fires, just like the polluted
      rivers, polluted underground water system and polluted air, are all
      man produced, and the motive is profit.

      The earth has a remarkable ability to heal itself – if we stopped
      damaging it – it heals quickly – I have seen a river that was so
      polluted that fish could not live in it and I have seen a harbor that
      stank from the waste that was dumped in it. Ten years after the
      pollution stopped – the fish returned in both the river and harbor.



      Kostas


      --- In fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com, michael <mdearing@...> wrote:
      >
      > Which is it, set or allowed to burn?
      > Where is the profit in burnt trees and countryside, including homes
      > and tourist locations?
      > - Michael
      >
      > On Sep 5, 2007, at 1:01 AM, karoubas wrote:
      >
      > > fires were set intentionally - or were allowed to burn - the profit
      > > motive was behind 90% of the fires and destruction
      > >
      > > Kostas
      >
      >
      >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >
    • Alex Woods
      I don t know anything about Greece, so I m not going to address the idea that people intentionally burn their own land, but it certainly sounds plausible.
      Message 2 of 12 , Sep 11, 2007
        I don't know anything about Greece, so I'm not going to address the idea
        that people intentionally burn their own land, but it certainly sounds
        plausible. However, commentators in the media frequently fail to mention
        that periodic burning is an adaptation of many ecosystems, Mediterranean
        forest / scrub among them. I strongly encourage anyone who is interested in
        this to take a look at the writings of the British naturalist Oliver
        Rackham, either The Nature of Mediterranean Europe: An Ecological History or
        Woodlands (which is mainly concerned with the British Isles but which
        discusses fire as an adaptation in the Med, western North America, and
        Australia). Certain types of forests not only are designed to burn, but
        have to burn periodically to remain healthy - think of pine trees, which
        produce copious amounts of flammable leaf litter, and whose seeds in many
        cases can't germinate until they have been toasted open. Whether people set
        those fires or not, they are bound to happen, just as they have been
        happening for thousands of years. Compare the English or eastern North
        American deciduous forest, which burns, as Rackham puts it, "like wet
        asbestos."

        Alex
        NYC


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • michael
        Indeed. Earth seems to have begun the process of removing its chief threat - human population. This process will be accelerated by the next world war -
        Message 3 of 12 , Sep 12, 2007
          Indeed. Earth seems to have begun the process of removing its chief
          threat - human population. This process will be accelerated by the
          next world war - probably over declining oil supplies.

          On Sep 11, 2007, at 12:38 AM, karoubas wrote:

          > The earth has a remarkable ability to heal itself �

          > Kostas



          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • michael
          Alex, it is becoming a restoration practice here (Wisconsin) to burn the forest on the limestone and sandstone bluffs to encourage the return of the oak
          Message 4 of 12 , Sep 12, 2007
            Alex,

            it is becoming a restoration practice here (Wisconsin) to burn the
            forest on the limestone and sandstone bluffs to encourage the return
            of the oak savanna ecosystems from the remnants which have survived.
            Tricky business but it works if done by professionals - we have had
            so many dry years that the forest is no longer 'like wet asbestos'.
            The fire first removes the alien shrub understory, allowing
            germination from the seedbank of savanna forbs; then it kills the
            softwood trees. Voila (in earth terms meaning decades), sparsely
            separated bur and white oaks with an understory of savanna plants.

            - Michael

            On Sep 11, 2007, at 7:29 AM, Alex Woods wrote:

            > periodic burning is an adaptation of many ecosystems,

            > Compare the English or eastern North
            > American deciduous forest, which burns, as Rackham puts it, "like wet
            > asbestos."
            >
            > Alex
            > NYC
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >
            >
            >



            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • karoubas
            Water and Oil Kostas
            Message 5 of 12 , Sep 13, 2007
              Water and Oil
              Kostas

              --- In fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com, michael <mdearing@...> wrote:
              >
              > Indeed. Earth seems to have begun the process of removing its chief
              > threat - human population. This process will be accelerated by the
              > next world war - probably over declining oil supplies.
              >
              > On Sep 11, 2007, at 12:38 AM, karoubas wrote:
              >
              > > The earth has a remarkable ability to heal itself –
              >
              > > Kostas
              >
              >
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
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