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Re: fires in greece

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  • JSENT
    Mom is going to fix it all soon, Mom is coming round to put it back the way it oughtta be... Learn to swim. aenima - tool
    Message 1 of 12 , Sep 7, 2007
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      "Mom is going to fix it all soon,
      Mom is coming round to put it back
      the way it oughtta be...

      Learn to swim."

      aenima - tool
      http://www.seeklyrics.com/lyrics/Tool/Aenima.html


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • michael
      Which is it, set or allowed to burn? Where is the profit in burnt trees and countryside, including homes and tourist locations? - Michael ... [Non-text
      Message 2 of 12 , Sep 10, 2007
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        Which is it, set or allowed to burn?
        Where is the profit in burnt trees and countryside, including homes
        and tourist locations?
        - Michael

        On Sep 5, 2007, at 1:01 AM, karoubas wrote:

        > fires were set intentionally - or were allowed to burn - the profit
        > motive was behind 90% of the fires and destruction
        >
        > Kostas



        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Dieter Brand
        Michael, I think the idea is that people set fire to forests and then somehow manage to get permission to build on land that was previously dedicated (zoned if
        Message 3 of 12 , Sep 10, 2007
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          Michael,

          I think the idea is that people set fire to forests
          and then somehow manage to get permission to
          build on land that was previously dedicated
          (zoned if you are in the US) forest land. This
          would of course increase the value of your land.

          They say the same when we have wildfires here
          in Portugal. I'm a little suspicious about this type
          of conspiracy theory. Fact is, wildfires will happen
          once the thermometer hits 40 or 45 deg. C (110 to
          120 F) after months of drought. A single spark -
          one stone hitting another - can be enough to set
          a whole region on fire. And once you have a fire
          front of 10 to 20 miles with strong winds it just
          keeps on burning for days even with dozens of
          fire fighting planes from all over Europe.

          Dieter Brand
          Portugal

          michael <mdearing@...> wrote:
          Which is it, set or allowed to burn?
          Where is the profit in burnt trees and countryside, including homes
          and tourist locations?
          - Michael

          On Sep 5, 2007, at 1:01 AM, karoubas wrote:

          > fires were set intentionally - or were allowed to burn - the profit
          > motive was behind 90% of the fires and destruction
          >
          > Kostas

          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






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        • karoubas
          Both Laws here in Greece are written in such ways that in fact encourage the setting of fires. I will explain. If you own a piece of land (say 10,000 square
          Message 4 of 12 , Sep 10, 2007
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            Both
            Laws here in Greece are written in such ways that in fact encourage
            the setting of fires.

            I will explain.

            If you own a piece of land (say 10,000 square meters) that you have
            not farmed or used for years, and that land is now half covered with
            pine trees, you can only develop the 5,000 square meters – you are not
            allowed by law to cut trees or develop the 5,000 square meters
            forested land. If however there is a forest fire, you can legally
            develop the entire lot.

            As often happens, land that was useless 30 years ago becomes very
            valuable over a period of time – if there is no fire the land may be
            worth 400,000 euros – if there is a forest fire the land will be worth
            800,000 euros or more. That's a lot of money for a greedy – lazy
            person. This explains why fires start simultaneously in 20 different
            places in one area.

            Add to this that there is no national land registry that defines
            exactly what is publicly owned and what is private.

            Also add the total incompetence or unwillingness of the government to
            put out even small fires, and you have an inferno that we are all
            going to pay for it – its so easy to destroy something – it only takes
            a second to start a fire and burn thousands of trees– but try planting
            thousands of trees – it takes years and time.

            The local farmers put out most of the fires; they spend many days
            without sleep trying to save their homes, olive trees, and yes the
            forests – without help.

            So it's not a conspiracy theory – I wish it was, and that this entire
            inferno was a natural event. But the fires, just like the polluted
            rivers, polluted underground water system and polluted air, are all
            man produced, and the motive is profit.

            The earth has a remarkable ability to heal itself – if we stopped
            damaging it – it heals quickly – I have seen a river that was so
            polluted that fish could not live in it and I have seen a harbor that
            stank from the waste that was dumped in it. Ten years after the
            pollution stopped – the fish returned in both the river and harbor.



            Kostas


            --- In fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com, michael <mdearing@...> wrote:
            >
            > Which is it, set or allowed to burn?
            > Where is the profit in burnt trees and countryside, including homes
            > and tourist locations?
            > - Michael
            >
            > On Sep 5, 2007, at 1:01 AM, karoubas wrote:
            >
            > > fires were set intentionally - or were allowed to burn - the profit
            > > motive was behind 90% of the fires and destruction
            > >
            > > Kostas
            >
            >
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >
          • Alex Woods
            I don t know anything about Greece, so I m not going to address the idea that people intentionally burn their own land, but it certainly sounds plausible.
            Message 5 of 12 , Sep 11, 2007
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              I don't know anything about Greece, so I'm not going to address the idea
              that people intentionally burn their own land, but it certainly sounds
              plausible. However, commentators in the media frequently fail to mention
              that periodic burning is an adaptation of many ecosystems, Mediterranean
              forest / scrub among them. I strongly encourage anyone who is interested in
              this to take a look at the writings of the British naturalist Oliver
              Rackham, either The Nature of Mediterranean Europe: An Ecological History or
              Woodlands (which is mainly concerned with the British Isles but which
              discusses fire as an adaptation in the Med, western North America, and
              Australia). Certain types of forests not only are designed to burn, but
              have to burn periodically to remain healthy - think of pine trees, which
              produce copious amounts of flammable leaf litter, and whose seeds in many
              cases can't germinate until they have been toasted open. Whether people set
              those fires or not, they are bound to happen, just as they have been
              happening for thousands of years. Compare the English or eastern North
              American deciduous forest, which burns, as Rackham puts it, "like wet
              asbestos."

              Alex
              NYC


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            • michael
              Indeed. Earth seems to have begun the process of removing its chief threat - human population. This process will be accelerated by the next world war -
              Message 6 of 12 , Sep 12, 2007
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                Indeed. Earth seems to have begun the process of removing its chief
                threat - human population. This process will be accelerated by the
                next world war - probably over declining oil supplies.

                On Sep 11, 2007, at 12:38 AM, karoubas wrote:

                > The earth has a remarkable ability to heal itself �

                > Kostas



                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • michael
                Alex, it is becoming a restoration practice here (Wisconsin) to burn the forest on the limestone and sandstone bluffs to encourage the return of the oak
                Message 7 of 12 , Sep 12, 2007
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                  Alex,

                  it is becoming a restoration practice here (Wisconsin) to burn the
                  forest on the limestone and sandstone bluffs to encourage the return
                  of the oak savanna ecosystems from the remnants which have survived.
                  Tricky business but it works if done by professionals - we have had
                  so many dry years that the forest is no longer 'like wet asbestos'.
                  The fire first removes the alien shrub understory, allowing
                  germination from the seedbank of savanna forbs; then it kills the
                  softwood trees. Voila (in earth terms meaning decades), sparsely
                  separated bur and white oaks with an understory of savanna plants.

                  - Michael

                  On Sep 11, 2007, at 7:29 AM, Alex Woods wrote:

                  > periodic burning is an adaptation of many ecosystems,

                  > Compare the English or eastern North
                  > American deciduous forest, which burns, as Rackham puts it, "like wet
                  > asbestos."
                  >
                  > Alex
                  > NYC
                  >
                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  >
                  >
                  >



                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • karoubas
                  Water and Oil Kostas
                  Message 8 of 12 , Sep 13, 2007
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                    Water and Oil
                    Kostas

                    --- In fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com, michael <mdearing@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > Indeed. Earth seems to have begun the process of removing its chief
                    > threat - human population. This process will be accelerated by the
                    > next world war - probably over declining oil supplies.
                    >
                    > On Sep 11, 2007, at 12:38 AM, karoubas wrote:
                    >
                    > > The earth has a remarkable ability to heal itself –
                    >
                    > > Kostas
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    >
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