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Re: fire in greece, attacks in india

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  • karoubas
    Panos farm is ok I did not attend the meet - my part of Greece, the Peloponese, was almost burned to the ground - precious forests were lost - many of the
    Message 1 of 12 , Sep 4, 2007
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      Panos farm is ok
      I did not attend the meet - my part of Greece, the Peloponese, was
      almost burned to the ground - precious forests were lost - many of the
      fires were set intentionally - or were allowed to burn - the profit
      motive was behind 90% of the fires and destruction - things are quiet
      now - with the fires mostly put out
      I am told the meeting went very well - over 5 tons of clay balls and
      disks were made which will be broadcast in burnout areas

      I recently visited an area that was burned last year in Halkidiki
      (northern greece) - last winter we had almost no rain and the weather
      was very mild, consequently only shrubs and grass grew - pine trees
      that were burned did not sprout - the same thing happened with the
      clay balls I broadcast last year - no rain - no cold - no trees from
      the clay balls - I think they will sprout this year.


      Kostas



      --- In fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com, "witchessocks"
      <witchessocks@...> wrote:
      >
      > i hope panos manikis is ok. i don't know where exactly his farm is...
      > does anyone know if he's ok?
      >
      > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J67r3Fxw22w
      >
      > i hope those on this list from india are ok. (there were attacks in
      > india).
      >
      > what is this world coming to? i'm getting so worried.*****robin
      >
    • witchessocks
      thank you so much, okinori taniguchi, for the website- www.naturalfarming.us -very informative and hopeful, to know what fukuoka-sensei is up to along with
      Message 2 of 12 , Sep 6, 2007
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        thank you so much, okinori taniguchi, for the website-

        www.naturalfarming.us

        -very informative and hopeful, to know what fukuoka-sensei is up to
        along with those lucky followers who are working with him right now.
        and thank you for your concern about those affected by the fires..

        paganinimic, i am looking forward to your website and any experiences
        you might share... please, please, keep us informed. in particular,
        i'd like to hear about how to assemble and prepare the seedballs. i
        will personally try to collect more info for you when and if i run
        across it.

        how is fukuoka-sensei? does he seem in good health and humor? please,
        if anyone talks to him, please express to him one soul's feelings of
        deep affection and respect for him... in my opinion, he has made the
        greatest impact on all life on this earth of any human; he is the most
        extraordinary
        role-model, a bringer of light for our darkest hours. i will try , to
        the best of my ability, to follow and obey his instructions with as
        much diligence and humility as i can, here, where i live in virginia, usa.

        karoubas, i am so glad the panos farm escaped the fires; but how
        horrible that some people would burn forests, animals, and people
        deliberately in order to make money in corporate land development. i
        imagine this would fill the hearts of good people with feelings of
        righteous anger. was your personal land burned? i am so sorry. good
        future luck to you, and thank you for your website. i will definitely
        check the site frequently to see what you are up to.

        well, i wish all the success in the world to those who will spread the
        seedballs over the burned areas. i know from observation in my own
        case, it sometimes takes
        several years for the seeds to finally germinate and grow. and, one
        thing about a burned area that is hopeful, the burning seems to
        stimulate the starting of some seeds that would otherwise not germinate.

        i expect that the warming of temperatures will bring the needed
        adjustment that the earth needs to replenish herself. the earth needs
        to do what she has to to survive, and i don't blame her one bit for
        any drastic measures she needs to take to protect herself from and
        transcend the exploitation that mankind has so disgustingly imposed
        upon her. that may sound harsh, and of course i don't want anything
        bad to happen to people, but humankind has done it to themselves, as
        well as others, so what nature has to do to right this, so shall it be.

        hoping and working for the new green paradise on earth**********robin
      • JSENT
        Mom is going to fix it all soon, Mom is coming round to put it back the way it oughtta be... Learn to swim. aenima - tool
        Message 3 of 12 , Sep 7, 2007
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          "Mom is going to fix it all soon,
          Mom is coming round to put it back
          the way it oughtta be...

          Learn to swim."

          aenima - tool
          http://www.seeklyrics.com/lyrics/Tool/Aenima.html


          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • michael
          Which is it, set or allowed to burn? Where is the profit in burnt trees and countryside, including homes and tourist locations? - Michael ... [Non-text
          Message 4 of 12 , Sep 10, 2007
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            Which is it, set or allowed to burn?
            Where is the profit in burnt trees and countryside, including homes
            and tourist locations?
            - Michael

            On Sep 5, 2007, at 1:01 AM, karoubas wrote:

            > fires were set intentionally - or were allowed to burn - the profit
            > motive was behind 90% of the fires and destruction
            >
            > Kostas



            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Dieter Brand
            Michael, I think the idea is that people set fire to forests and then somehow manage to get permission to build on land that was previously dedicated (zoned if
            Message 5 of 12 , Sep 10, 2007
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              Michael,

              I think the idea is that people set fire to forests
              and then somehow manage to get permission to
              build on land that was previously dedicated
              (zoned if you are in the US) forest land. This
              would of course increase the value of your land.

              They say the same when we have wildfires here
              in Portugal. I'm a little suspicious about this type
              of conspiracy theory. Fact is, wildfires will happen
              once the thermometer hits 40 or 45 deg. C (110 to
              120 F) after months of drought. A single spark -
              one stone hitting another - can be enough to set
              a whole region on fire. And once you have a fire
              front of 10 to 20 miles with strong winds it just
              keeps on burning for days even with dozens of
              fire fighting planes from all over Europe.

              Dieter Brand
              Portugal

              michael <mdearing@...> wrote:
              Which is it, set or allowed to burn?
              Where is the profit in burnt trees and countryside, including homes
              and tourist locations?
              - Michael

              On Sep 5, 2007, at 1:01 AM, karoubas wrote:

              > fires were set intentionally - or were allowed to burn - the profit
              > motive was behind 90% of the fires and destruction
              >
              > Kostas

              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






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              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • karoubas
              Both Laws here in Greece are written in such ways that in fact encourage the setting of fires. I will explain. If you own a piece of land (say 10,000 square
              Message 6 of 12 , Sep 10, 2007
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                Both
                Laws here in Greece are written in such ways that in fact encourage
                the setting of fires.

                I will explain.

                If you own a piece of land (say 10,000 square meters) that you have
                not farmed or used for years, and that land is now half covered with
                pine trees, you can only develop the 5,000 square meters – you are not
                allowed by law to cut trees or develop the 5,000 square meters
                forested land. If however there is a forest fire, you can legally
                develop the entire lot.

                As often happens, land that was useless 30 years ago becomes very
                valuable over a period of time – if there is no fire the land may be
                worth 400,000 euros – if there is a forest fire the land will be worth
                800,000 euros or more. That's a lot of money for a greedy – lazy
                person. This explains why fires start simultaneously in 20 different
                places in one area.

                Add to this that there is no national land registry that defines
                exactly what is publicly owned and what is private.

                Also add the total incompetence or unwillingness of the government to
                put out even small fires, and you have an inferno that we are all
                going to pay for it – its so easy to destroy something – it only takes
                a second to start a fire and burn thousands of trees– but try planting
                thousands of trees – it takes years and time.

                The local farmers put out most of the fires; they spend many days
                without sleep trying to save their homes, olive trees, and yes the
                forests – without help.

                So it's not a conspiracy theory – I wish it was, and that this entire
                inferno was a natural event. But the fires, just like the polluted
                rivers, polluted underground water system and polluted air, are all
                man produced, and the motive is profit.

                The earth has a remarkable ability to heal itself – if we stopped
                damaging it – it heals quickly – I have seen a river that was so
                polluted that fish could not live in it and I have seen a harbor that
                stank from the waste that was dumped in it. Ten years after the
                pollution stopped – the fish returned in both the river and harbor.



                Kostas


                --- In fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com, michael <mdearing@...> wrote:
                >
                > Which is it, set or allowed to burn?
                > Where is the profit in burnt trees and countryside, including homes
                > and tourist locations?
                > - Michael
                >
                > On Sep 5, 2007, at 1:01 AM, karoubas wrote:
                >
                > > fires were set intentionally - or were allowed to burn - the profit
                > > motive was behind 90% of the fires and destruction
                > >
                > > Kostas
                >
                >
                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >
              • Alex Woods
                I don t know anything about Greece, so I m not going to address the idea that people intentionally burn their own land, but it certainly sounds plausible.
                Message 7 of 12 , Sep 11, 2007
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                  I don't know anything about Greece, so I'm not going to address the idea
                  that people intentionally burn their own land, but it certainly sounds
                  plausible. However, commentators in the media frequently fail to mention
                  that periodic burning is an adaptation of many ecosystems, Mediterranean
                  forest / scrub among them. I strongly encourage anyone who is interested in
                  this to take a look at the writings of the British naturalist Oliver
                  Rackham, either The Nature of Mediterranean Europe: An Ecological History or
                  Woodlands (which is mainly concerned with the British Isles but which
                  discusses fire as an adaptation in the Med, western North America, and
                  Australia). Certain types of forests not only are designed to burn, but
                  have to burn periodically to remain healthy - think of pine trees, which
                  produce copious amounts of flammable leaf litter, and whose seeds in many
                  cases can't germinate until they have been toasted open. Whether people set
                  those fires or not, they are bound to happen, just as they have been
                  happening for thousands of years. Compare the English or eastern North
                  American deciduous forest, which burns, as Rackham puts it, "like wet
                  asbestos."

                  Alex
                  NYC


                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • michael
                  Indeed. Earth seems to have begun the process of removing its chief threat - human population. This process will be accelerated by the next world war -
                  Message 8 of 12 , Sep 12, 2007
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                    Indeed. Earth seems to have begun the process of removing its chief
                    threat - human population. This process will be accelerated by the
                    next world war - probably over declining oil supplies.

                    On Sep 11, 2007, at 12:38 AM, karoubas wrote:

                    > The earth has a remarkable ability to heal itself �

                    > Kostas



                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • michael
                    Alex, it is becoming a restoration practice here (Wisconsin) to burn the forest on the limestone and sandstone bluffs to encourage the return of the oak
                    Message 9 of 12 , Sep 12, 2007
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                      Alex,

                      it is becoming a restoration practice here (Wisconsin) to burn the
                      forest on the limestone and sandstone bluffs to encourage the return
                      of the oak savanna ecosystems from the remnants which have survived.
                      Tricky business but it works if done by professionals - we have had
                      so many dry years that the forest is no longer 'like wet asbestos'.
                      The fire first removes the alien shrub understory, allowing
                      germination from the seedbank of savanna forbs; then it kills the
                      softwood trees. Voila (in earth terms meaning decades), sparsely
                      separated bur and white oaks with an understory of savanna plants.

                      - Michael

                      On Sep 11, 2007, at 7:29 AM, Alex Woods wrote:

                      > periodic burning is an adaptation of many ecosystems,

                      > Compare the English or eastern North
                      > American deciduous forest, which burns, as Rackham puts it, "like wet
                      > asbestos."
                      >
                      > Alex
                      > NYC
                      >
                      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      >
                      >
                      >



                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • karoubas
                      Water and Oil Kostas
                      Message 10 of 12 , Sep 13, 2007
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                        Water and Oil
                        Kostas

                        --- In fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com, michael <mdearing@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > Indeed. Earth seems to have begun the process of removing its chief
                        > threat - human population. This process will be accelerated by the
                        > next world war - probably over declining oil supplies.
                        >
                        > On Sep 11, 2007, at 12:38 AM, karoubas wrote:
                        >
                        > > The earth has a remarkable ability to heal itself –
                        >
                        > > Kostas
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        >
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