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fire in greece, attacks in india

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  • witchessocks
    i hope panos manikis is ok. i don t know where exactly his farm is... does anyone know if he s ok? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J67r3Fxw22w i hope those on
    Message 1 of 12 , Aug 26, 2007
      i hope panos manikis is ok. i don't know where exactly his farm is...
      does anyone know if he's ok?

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J67r3Fxw22w

      i hope those on this list from india are ok. (there were attacks in
      india).

      what is this world coming to? i'm getting so worried.*****robin
    • Okinori Taniguchi
      Hi, I get the information below; The farm is located by google earth at 40 48 01.91 22 04 06.83 at this location is the small hut that Panos has - his farm
      Message 2 of 12 , Aug 26, 2007
        Hi,

        I get the information below;

        The farm is located by google earth at 40 48 01.91 22 04 06.83
        at this location is the small hut that Panos has - his farm extends to the
        west a bit and to the south east.

        This is by contacting with Kaoubas in

        http://www.naturalfarming.us/

        Okinori


        At 20:39 07/08/26 +0000, you wrote:

        >i hope panos manikis is ok. i don't know where exactly his farm is...
        >does anyone know if he's ok?
        >
        ><http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J67r3Fxw22w>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=
        >J67r3Fxw22w
        >
        >i hope those on this list from india are ok. (there were attacks in
        >india).
        >
        >what is this world coming to? i'm getting so worried.*****robin
      • karoubas
        Panos farm is ok I did not attend the meet - my part of Greece, the Peloponese, was almost burned to the ground - precious forests were lost - many of the
        Message 3 of 12 , Sep 4, 2007
          Panos farm is ok
          I did not attend the meet - my part of Greece, the Peloponese, was
          almost burned to the ground - precious forests were lost - many of the
          fires were set intentionally - or were allowed to burn - the profit
          motive was behind 90% of the fires and destruction - things are quiet
          now - with the fires mostly put out
          I am told the meeting went very well - over 5 tons of clay balls and
          disks were made which will be broadcast in burnout areas

          I recently visited an area that was burned last year in Halkidiki
          (northern greece) - last winter we had almost no rain and the weather
          was very mild, consequently only shrubs and grass grew - pine trees
          that were burned did not sprout - the same thing happened with the
          clay balls I broadcast last year - no rain - no cold - no trees from
          the clay balls - I think they will sprout this year.


          Kostas



          --- In fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com, "witchessocks"
          <witchessocks@...> wrote:
          >
          > i hope panos manikis is ok. i don't know where exactly his farm is...
          > does anyone know if he's ok?
          >
          > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J67r3Fxw22w
          >
          > i hope those on this list from india are ok. (there were attacks in
          > india).
          >
          > what is this world coming to? i'm getting so worried.*****robin
          >
        • witchessocks
          thank you so much, okinori taniguchi, for the website- www.naturalfarming.us -very informative and hopeful, to know what fukuoka-sensei is up to along with
          Message 4 of 12 , Sep 6, 2007
            thank you so much, okinori taniguchi, for the website-

            www.naturalfarming.us

            -very informative and hopeful, to know what fukuoka-sensei is up to
            along with those lucky followers who are working with him right now.
            and thank you for your concern about those affected by the fires..

            paganinimic, i am looking forward to your website and any experiences
            you might share... please, please, keep us informed. in particular,
            i'd like to hear about how to assemble and prepare the seedballs. i
            will personally try to collect more info for you when and if i run
            across it.

            how is fukuoka-sensei? does he seem in good health and humor? please,
            if anyone talks to him, please express to him one soul's feelings of
            deep affection and respect for him... in my opinion, he has made the
            greatest impact on all life on this earth of any human; he is the most
            extraordinary
            role-model, a bringer of light for our darkest hours. i will try , to
            the best of my ability, to follow and obey his instructions with as
            much diligence and humility as i can, here, where i live in virginia, usa.

            karoubas, i am so glad the panos farm escaped the fires; but how
            horrible that some people would burn forests, animals, and people
            deliberately in order to make money in corporate land development. i
            imagine this would fill the hearts of good people with feelings of
            righteous anger. was your personal land burned? i am so sorry. good
            future luck to you, and thank you for your website. i will definitely
            check the site frequently to see what you are up to.

            well, i wish all the success in the world to those who will spread the
            seedballs over the burned areas. i know from observation in my own
            case, it sometimes takes
            several years for the seeds to finally germinate and grow. and, one
            thing about a burned area that is hopeful, the burning seems to
            stimulate the starting of some seeds that would otherwise not germinate.

            i expect that the warming of temperatures will bring the needed
            adjustment that the earth needs to replenish herself. the earth needs
            to do what she has to to survive, and i don't blame her one bit for
            any drastic measures she needs to take to protect herself from and
            transcend the exploitation that mankind has so disgustingly imposed
            upon her. that may sound harsh, and of course i don't want anything
            bad to happen to people, but humankind has done it to themselves, as
            well as others, so what nature has to do to right this, so shall it be.

            hoping and working for the new green paradise on earth**********robin
          • JSENT
            Mom is going to fix it all soon, Mom is coming round to put it back the way it oughtta be... Learn to swim. aenima - tool
            Message 5 of 12 , Sep 7, 2007
              "Mom is going to fix it all soon,
              Mom is coming round to put it back
              the way it oughtta be...

              Learn to swim."

              aenima - tool
              http://www.seeklyrics.com/lyrics/Tool/Aenima.html


              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • michael
              Which is it, set or allowed to burn? Where is the profit in burnt trees and countryside, including homes and tourist locations? - Michael ... [Non-text
              Message 6 of 12 , Sep 10, 2007
                Which is it, set or allowed to burn?
                Where is the profit in burnt trees and countryside, including homes
                and tourist locations?
                - Michael

                On Sep 5, 2007, at 1:01 AM, karoubas wrote:

                > fires were set intentionally - or were allowed to burn - the profit
                > motive was behind 90% of the fires and destruction
                >
                > Kostas



                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Dieter Brand
                Michael, I think the idea is that people set fire to forests and then somehow manage to get permission to build on land that was previously dedicated (zoned if
                Message 7 of 12 , Sep 10, 2007
                  Michael,

                  I think the idea is that people set fire to forests
                  and then somehow manage to get permission to
                  build on land that was previously dedicated
                  (zoned if you are in the US) forest land. This
                  would of course increase the value of your land.

                  They say the same when we have wildfires here
                  in Portugal. I'm a little suspicious about this type
                  of conspiracy theory. Fact is, wildfires will happen
                  once the thermometer hits 40 or 45 deg. C (110 to
                  120 F) after months of drought. A single spark -
                  one stone hitting another - can be enough to set
                  a whole region on fire. And once you have a fire
                  front of 10 to 20 miles with strong winds it just
                  keeps on burning for days even with dozens of
                  fire fighting planes from all over Europe.

                  Dieter Brand
                  Portugal

                  michael <mdearing@...> wrote:
                  Which is it, set or allowed to burn?
                  Where is the profit in burnt trees and countryside, including homes
                  and tourist locations?
                  - Michael

                  On Sep 5, 2007, at 1:01 AM, karoubas wrote:

                  > fires were set intentionally - or were allowed to burn - the profit
                  > motive was behind 90% of the fires and destruction
                  >
                  > Kostas

                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






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                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • karoubas
                  Both Laws here in Greece are written in such ways that in fact encourage the setting of fires. I will explain. If you own a piece of land (say 10,000 square
                  Message 8 of 12 , Sep 10, 2007
                    Both
                    Laws here in Greece are written in such ways that in fact encourage
                    the setting of fires.

                    I will explain.

                    If you own a piece of land (say 10,000 square meters) that you have
                    not farmed or used for years, and that land is now half covered with
                    pine trees, you can only develop the 5,000 square meters – you are not
                    allowed by law to cut trees or develop the 5,000 square meters
                    forested land. If however there is a forest fire, you can legally
                    develop the entire lot.

                    As often happens, land that was useless 30 years ago becomes very
                    valuable over a period of time – if there is no fire the land may be
                    worth 400,000 euros – if there is a forest fire the land will be worth
                    800,000 euros or more. That's a lot of money for a greedy – lazy
                    person. This explains why fires start simultaneously in 20 different
                    places in one area.

                    Add to this that there is no national land registry that defines
                    exactly what is publicly owned and what is private.

                    Also add the total incompetence or unwillingness of the government to
                    put out even small fires, and you have an inferno that we are all
                    going to pay for it – its so easy to destroy something – it only takes
                    a second to start a fire and burn thousands of trees– but try planting
                    thousands of trees – it takes years and time.

                    The local farmers put out most of the fires; they spend many days
                    without sleep trying to save their homes, olive trees, and yes the
                    forests – without help.

                    So it's not a conspiracy theory – I wish it was, and that this entire
                    inferno was a natural event. But the fires, just like the polluted
                    rivers, polluted underground water system and polluted air, are all
                    man produced, and the motive is profit.

                    The earth has a remarkable ability to heal itself – if we stopped
                    damaging it – it heals quickly – I have seen a river that was so
                    polluted that fish could not live in it and I have seen a harbor that
                    stank from the waste that was dumped in it. Ten years after the
                    pollution stopped – the fish returned in both the river and harbor.



                    Kostas


                    --- In fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com, michael <mdearing@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > Which is it, set or allowed to burn?
                    > Where is the profit in burnt trees and countryside, including homes
                    > and tourist locations?
                    > - Michael
                    >
                    > On Sep 5, 2007, at 1:01 AM, karoubas wrote:
                    >
                    > > fires were set intentionally - or were allowed to burn - the profit
                    > > motive was behind 90% of the fires and destruction
                    > >
                    > > Kostas
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    >
                  • Alex Woods
                    I don t know anything about Greece, so I m not going to address the idea that people intentionally burn their own land, but it certainly sounds plausible.
                    Message 9 of 12 , Sep 11, 2007
                      I don't know anything about Greece, so I'm not going to address the idea
                      that people intentionally burn their own land, but it certainly sounds
                      plausible. However, commentators in the media frequently fail to mention
                      that periodic burning is an adaptation of many ecosystems, Mediterranean
                      forest / scrub among them. I strongly encourage anyone who is interested in
                      this to take a look at the writings of the British naturalist Oliver
                      Rackham, either The Nature of Mediterranean Europe: An Ecological History or
                      Woodlands (which is mainly concerned with the British Isles but which
                      discusses fire as an adaptation in the Med, western North America, and
                      Australia). Certain types of forests not only are designed to burn, but
                      have to burn periodically to remain healthy - think of pine trees, which
                      produce copious amounts of flammable leaf litter, and whose seeds in many
                      cases can't germinate until they have been toasted open. Whether people set
                      those fires or not, they are bound to happen, just as they have been
                      happening for thousands of years. Compare the English or eastern North
                      American deciduous forest, which burns, as Rackham puts it, "like wet
                      asbestos."

                      Alex
                      NYC


                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • michael
                      Indeed. Earth seems to have begun the process of removing its chief threat - human population. This process will be accelerated by the next world war -
                      Message 10 of 12 , Sep 12, 2007
                        Indeed. Earth seems to have begun the process of removing its chief
                        threat - human population. This process will be accelerated by the
                        next world war - probably over declining oil supplies.

                        On Sep 11, 2007, at 12:38 AM, karoubas wrote:

                        > The earth has a remarkable ability to heal itself �

                        > Kostas



                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • michael
                        Alex, it is becoming a restoration practice here (Wisconsin) to burn the forest on the limestone and sandstone bluffs to encourage the return of the oak
                        Message 11 of 12 , Sep 12, 2007
                          Alex,

                          it is becoming a restoration practice here (Wisconsin) to burn the
                          forest on the limestone and sandstone bluffs to encourage the return
                          of the oak savanna ecosystems from the remnants which have survived.
                          Tricky business but it works if done by professionals - we have had
                          so many dry years that the forest is no longer 'like wet asbestos'.
                          The fire first removes the alien shrub understory, allowing
                          germination from the seedbank of savanna forbs; then it kills the
                          softwood trees. Voila (in earth terms meaning decades), sparsely
                          separated bur and white oaks with an understory of savanna plants.

                          - Michael

                          On Sep 11, 2007, at 7:29 AM, Alex Woods wrote:

                          > periodic burning is an adaptation of many ecosystems,

                          > Compare the English or eastern North
                          > American deciduous forest, which burns, as Rackham puts it, "like wet
                          > asbestos."
                          >
                          > Alex
                          > NYC
                          >
                          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          >
                          >
                          >



                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • karoubas
                          Water and Oil Kostas
                          Message 12 of 12 , Sep 13, 2007
                            Water and Oil
                            Kostas

                            --- In fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com, michael <mdearing@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > Indeed. Earth seems to have begun the process of removing its chief
                            > threat - human population. This process will be accelerated by the
                            > next world war - probably over declining oil supplies.
                            >
                            > On Sep 11, 2007, at 12:38 AM, karoubas wrote:
                            >
                            > > The earth has a remarkable ability to heal itself –
                            >
                            > > Kostas
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            >
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