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Re: Introduction and question: Emilia Hazelip method and dealing with slugs

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  • witchessocks
    doesn t compost and juicy mulch raise the temperature and cause too much rot too rapidly, and undesirable souring/fermentation, drawing slugs? how about
    Message 1 of 10 , Jul 31, 2007
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      doesn't compost and juicy mulch raise the temperature and cause
      too much rot too rapidly, and undesirable souring/fermentation,
      drawing slugs?
      how about growing some different cereal grains with the weeds,
      something that turns into straw right there on your off season. then
      cut the grain and put the straw debris over the ground around the
      veges. put some clumps of soil on the straw instead of chicken manure.
      wouldn't that be a little drier? also straw helps to hold back weeds.
      and the same de-composition that you get from loads of juicy mulch
      will still
      happen to the straw, but a little more slowly and more
      regulated/paced, instead of all that surplus, making the rotting
      process more
      complete and promoting a better balance and stabilization. when the
      soil is more stable, there will be a better balance of all the fungi,
      molds, insects and the predacious insects that feed on these insects,
      etc. fukuoka talks about this. also, he said to companion plant a
      multitude of vegetables, clover and many other plants there among the
      weeds. monocropping draws too many undesirables such as slugs at one
      time, whereas mixed
      planting promotes a balance of insects, body decomposition of insects
      which gradually leads to better soil and better plants.-- just some ideas
      to mix in with the others..8^D!

      btw, somebody in washington finally has his /her head on straight...i
      was just listening to the news and heard that the local powers that be
      have hit on a workable solution for getting rid of gang members that
      loiter at bus stops; they pipe in classical music in the bus stop
      areas! now-- that is a natural farming solution if i ever heard of one!
      the classical music actually repels the gang members and they leave
      the areas and go elsewhere on their own. now if we just knew what kind
      of music
      repels slugs we'd be sitting pretty!
    • witchessocks
      let me clarify a little...jerome, it sounds like your land is over- mulched, over-composted. if you put straw down it will soak up the toxins and rot into
      Message 2 of 10 , Aug 1 4:43 AM
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        let me clarify a little...jerome, it sounds like your land is over-
        mulched, over-composted. if you put straw down it will soak up the
        toxins and rot into itself... causing decomposition of the straw.
        organisms will flourish in the straw, eating the rot. this will draw
        many insects like beetles, earwigs, slugs to come and feed on the
        organisms. but, realize, the slugs are eating over and up at the straw
        now, instead of in the soil near your plants. after a few generations,
        which happens fast at that level the organisms will change. as the
        straw decomposes and depletes itself, the organisms get less to eat
        and begin to turn on each other. eventually the slugs get, consumed
        and/or repelled by it's own food because the chemistry changes in the
        organisms. the good stuff in the rotten mulch goes back into the soil,
        but in a better and more complete form because it went through the straw.

        the way you put down the straw matters. don't put it down straight or
        neatly, throw it down so that it goes down every which way, creating
        criss-crosses which promotes seed germination. the grasses, weeds and
        grain, etc. will grow through those crisscrosses, drawing more toxins
        out of the soil. when you cut the weeds and other plants because there
        are just too many, never wipe out a whole species. cut some of every
        species and leave some of every species to go to seed. throw these
        down as mulch, but include lots of straw . put the straw over any
        mulch you have on there. you are trying to make the rot happen right
        there in the straw instead of in the soil.

        you said you put down straw and it drew slugs, but they still ate your
        potatoes. i think you need to continue putting down straw and
        eventually the straw will leach out the "infection" that is in the
        soil and turn it into good soil. you just didn't put down enough straw
        yet.

        i know you may want to favor the vegetables, by raising the temp and
        putting lots of compost and mulch on to favor the vegetables. but for
        a while, try to favor the soil...draw that rot out of your soil with
        straw and your soil will be healthier. after you've cleaned out your
        soil good, cautiously add more mulch to favor the vegetables...but
        watch the balance...you may need more straw at any time.
        >
      • Robert Monie
        Hi Robin, All these ideas have some merit, especially the one about the perennially replusive qualities of the classics of the Western canon to punks and
        Message 3 of 10 , Aug 1 10:38 AM
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          Hi Robin,

          All these ideas have some merit, especially the one about the perennially replusive qualities of the classics of the Western canon to punks and gangsters. I was once mugged, and the "perpetrator" angrily flung my copy of Tolstoy's "Ivan Illyich" to the ground in disgust, and then in cries of dismay and unbelief ("you mean this is all you're carrying?"), he hurled my copy of Homer's "Iliad" to the other side (my coat had big pockets). He netted about $3.17 from me, and I was able to retrieve the (slightly damaged) objects of real value from the ground and go on my way. I'm sure that CD's of Palestrina, J.S. Bach, Mozart, Debussy, or Olivier Messian would occasion similiar rejection.

          My plants all love these composers as well as good blues and jazz, so I conclude that there are no dangerous punks or gangsters among them.

          For the past few years, I haven't used raw mulch of any kind in my garden--just living green cover crops and well-cured compost. As a result, the slug and snail population has declined (but not disappeared). If I am growing succulents coveted by mollusks, I surround those babies with copper tape (I get from John Jeavons Bountiful Gardens) or even grow them in very large pots (green manure and all), their base well swaddled in copper tape.

          Wild Speculation and Wishful Dreaming Dept: A part of my garden has a thick growth of yarrow (the thin lacy kind, not the broad-leaf fern type) and catnip and lemon catnip as well. Slugs have not been observed in that part of the garden. (Is this a kind of Mozart-protected field?) Does it follow that I could plant succulents there and the slugs would not visit them?

          Finally, vegan farmer Ian Tolhurst says in his indispensible "Green Growing" (page 169)
          that keeping the pH of the soil between 6.5 and 6.8 minimizes slug severity.

          Bob Monie
          New Orleans, LA
          Zone 8



          witchessocks <witchessocks@...> wrote:
          doesn't compost and juicy mulch raise the temperature and cause
          too much rot too rapidly, and undesirable souring/fermentation,
          drawing slugs?
          how about growing some different cereal grains with the weeds,
          something that turns into straw right there on your off season. then
          cut the grain and put the straw debris over the ground around the
          veges. put some clumps of soil on the straw instead of chicken manure.
          wouldn't that be a little drier? also straw helps to hold back weeds.
          and the same de-composition that you get from loads of juicy mulch
          will still
          happen to the straw, but a little more slowly and more
          regulated/paced, instead of all that surplus, making the rotting
          process more
          complete and promoting a better balance and stabilization. when the
          soil is more stable, there will be a better balance of all the fungi,
          molds, insects and the predacious insects that feed on these insects,
          etc. fukuoka talks about this. also, he said to companion plant a
          multitude of vegetables, clover and many other plants there among the
          weeds. monocropping draws too many undesirables such as slugs at one
          time, whereas mixed
          planting promotes a balance of insects, body decomposition of insects
          which gradually leads to better soil and better plants.-- just some ideas
          to mix in with the others..8^D!

          btw, somebody in washington finally has his /her head on straight...i
          was just listening to the news and heard that the local powers that be
          have hit on a workable solution for getting rid of gang members that
          loiter at bus stops; they pipe in classical music in the bus stop
          areas! now-- that is a natural farming solution if i ever heard of one!
          the classical music actually repels the gang members and they leave
          the areas and go elsewhere on their own. now if we just knew what kind
          of music
          repels slugs we'd be sitting pretty!






          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • michael
          Same with toads. Create pond, toads will come. In a few years, all ages will be present, from the cute of this year to the fat mommas of years past. Goodbye
          Message 4 of 10 , Aug 7 6:03 PM
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            Same with toads. Create pond, toads will come. In a few years, all
            ages will be present, from the cute of this year to the fat mommas of
            years past. Goodbye slugs.

            On Jul 30, 2007, at 11:00 AM, Shawn Turner wrote:

            > The slugs are a simple fix. Get Ducks and chickens give them free
            > access to the fields.



            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • michael
            Copper is toxic to them. Copper sulfate is used as a paint for pear trees that have slug problems. ... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            Message 5 of 10 , Aug 7 6:06 PM
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              Copper is toxic to them. Copper sulfate is used as a paint for pear
              trees that have slug problems.

              On Jul 31, 2007, at 4:42 AM, Jamie Nicol wrote:

              > supposedly the copper gives the mucous covered molluscs a small
              > electric
              > shock when earthed.



              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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