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Re: something practical

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  • witchessocks
    i went to andy s site and it IS nice. i especially enjoyed reading this page... be sure and click on the image... boy, i am looking forward to that happening
    Message 1 of 16 , Jul 15, 2007
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      i went to andy's site and it IS nice. i especially enjoyed reading
      this page... be sure and click on the image... boy, i am looking
      forward to that happening on my land... just gorgeous!


      i'm glad they include deer because i couldn't keep them out on my
      land...not that i'd want to. i don't like wire fences... i cut mine
      into rectangles and squares of various sizes when i took it down; i
      fold these squares over double to form small or larger a-frames which
      i then set over my
      vegetables (like tomatoes, spinach, etc.) individually, so that the
      deer do not get them. that way, vegetables do not have to be put in a
      certain place, they could come up anywhere (like volunteers). and you
      can protect that
      individual plant from the deer. i don't stake my tomatoes, i let them
      crawl along the ground, and the plant balances itself in its own way.
      when there
      is clover and other soft short weeds around the tomato plant it will
      lean on these and spread out as it grows. i still don't like to see
      little or big wire a-frames here and there, but otherwise the deer will
      eat all my vegetables...and after the harvest you can just pick them
      up, stomp them flat, and store them away easily....you can't do that
      with a

      anybody else have any ideas that are more or less practical like that?

      that you have thought up while you were out doing without doing. if
      you are like me, untrained, and in a way untrainable, sceptical,
      uncertain of yourself,
      wandering around the garden or
      farm area and looking for things to do then ways to not do that same
      something or not do part of it as per fukuoka-san instructions; or
      looking for ways to eliminate
      man-made 'somethings' (like fences), it's a gift to hit on the perfect
      compromise for that time and space. the 'wire fence into double folded
      square or rectangle a-frames" solution is a win-win situation for both
      me and the deer. they can nibble clover and alfalfa and i get my
      veggies for me. i may stumble upon a better plan but this one does
      work for the frame of mind i'm in right now. i guess if
      you had to have a Whole lot of vegetables to protect instead of just a
      few, it wouldn't work so well. when deer eat my little bit of stuff i
      grow for myself it makes me real real sad, and now i'm happier.

      thank you, andy langford, for your site...sorry i teased you about
      your "titles"...i'm just a poor common slob who has become used to
      burning my bridges too often. argel is indeed beautiful and natural
      and i learned
      alot from reading your wilderness regeneration and harvesting article.

      robin, aka witchessocks
    • Sergio Montinola
      Dear Dieter, My reply/ It is quite enough to know the god inside yourself. If you do, there is no need to make a display of it, unless that is, you want to go
      Message 2 of 16 , Jul 17, 2007
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        Dear Dieter,

        My reply/

        It is quite enough to know the god inside yourself. If you do, there is no need to make a display of it, unless that is, you want to go preaching at others.

        Yes, God wants us to preach all the time. That is why we have a Pope and a church to help and guide us.

        As to my carrots and cabbages, they don't care what you preach.

        You will be surprised and amazed Fukuoda believed in a God whose plants reject human interferance but only GodÂ’s help thru His creation of nature and the universe.


        Dieter Brand <diebrand@...> wrote:
        It is quite enough to know the god inside yourself. If you do, there is no need
        to make a display of it, unless that is, you want to go preaching at others.
        As to my carrots and cabbages, they don't care what you preach.


        Sergio Montinola <sjmosprey2001@...> wrote:
        This message contains one and only one thing. GOD is the creator of all things, man and the universe. All messages mean nothing if GOD is second or nothing ?

        Unless man realizes this, there is no message worth considering.


        Dieter Brand <diebrand@...> wrote:
        Now this is "something practical". Why can't you people use subject lines
        that are indicative of the message contents?


        Shawn Turner <shawndturner@...> wrote:
        All things have consciousness, everything in this reality does even a rock! Even though a rock has a lower conscious, it is often more aware of the present or being, than higher consciousness with humans.

        We were made whole in the beginning! All that is, is whole. No perfection needs to be done only recognition of that perfection.

        So if you need to speak to your plants then do so. Once you come to the reality that you only need to speak to yourself(Inner Self). Then, all will hear you.
        Linda Shewan <linda_shewan@...> wrote: I believe GOD is in all of us and everything she/he created - therefore I am
        talking to God when I talk to the plants, or animals, or anything else!


        From: fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com
        [mailto:fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Sergio Montinola
        Sent: Thursday, 12 July 2007 4:21 PM
        To: fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: RE: [fukuoka_farming] something practical

        Believing in GOD, the almighty is worth more than talking to plants He
        created for man.

        Hope this answers your thoughts.and pass it on to all Fukuoka fans. Even
        Fukuoka believes in GOD.

        Sergio J. Montinola

        Linda Shewan <linda_shewan@... <mailto:linda_shewan%40yahoo.com.au>
        > wrote:
        Wow - it's fantastic to hear the wood layering works as I have only just
        done the same thing.

        When we moved into this property there were two old plum trees that had had
        such bad pruning work done on them that they were not really saveable. this
        year I finally cut them down and layered the prunings all over my back yard.
        Come spring I plan to scatter seeds with abandon.

        Sometimes it does feels we are too controlling, but them sometimes we come
        into an environment that simply does not work - so we do have to take
        action. But by doing so you have unleased a new wave of life and the beauty
        and energy from that new life is breathtaking. I feel we should talk to the
        land and plants about what we plan to do and why. If we get feedback - or
        continue to feel that our course is correct then thank the trees we are
        sacrificing for their part of the development of the property and continue
        with our plans.

        It might be very 'out there' talking to plants, but I believe they have a
        soul just like all living things. For anyone who doesn't believe it - read
        The Secret Life of Plants by Christopher Bird


        From: fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com
        <mailto:fukuoka_farming%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of witchessocks
        Sent: Thursday, 12 July 2007 2:24 AM
        To: fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: [fukuoka_farming] something practical

        sorry, i have to give you the background first.

        my husband and i built our house on the upper end of a gradual slope,
        on a 3/4 acre piece of land; behind our house is a border of native
        trees and brush which i let grow thick to form a hedge area between
        our land and the property behind us. a developer had cleared that land
        to build housing for renters.

        well, for years i let this area grow without giving it any thought at
        all; i made textile crafts and raised two children, had a traditional
        tilled garden and only devoted myself to that.

        then i read masanobu fukuoka's "one straw revolution", which triggered
        my own series of epiphanies...i looked around at our land and became
        more aware of what exactly was growing there: tall pines, cedar,
        locust, wild cherry,a huge wild grapevine that climbed over
        everything, shrub roses, poke, a small black raspberry patch,
        goldenrod, privet, rose of sharon, a bit of knot-weed, and some other
        natives and exotics that i'm still not sure of the names of. i have
        always been pretty much purist (sigh) so i wouldn't let my husband cut
        anything over there.

        but now, i realized with horror what else i had let grow-
        ailanthus...that exotic from china...had infested it all, blocking
        the light, killing the natives, souring the ground, and dominating
        everything.. and now it was threatening our house. i didn't even
        notice them until this point, when i realized i had over 20 huge trees
        hanging over our house, spreading and growing very very rapidly...


        we then took action...we cut as many as we could ourselves, then found
        a reasonable local tree-cutter to take down the giants. it still cost
        us over a thousand dollars to get this done. we drilled holes in the
        stumps and hoped for the best.

        well, when you cut ailanthia suckers begin to sprout from every root,
        of which there were plenty. and also, we couldn't get them all because
        some of them were over the property line and the owners wouldn't cut
        them down. i didn't want to make a fuss with the owners because i was
        afraid that if they were harrassed to get rid of theirs, they would
        use poison, and i didn't want that. so we are stuck with seeds wafting
        over the line and hundreds of seedlings coming up every day along with
        the dozens of suckers coming up every single day.

        ok, fukuoka-san had said, never carry away any of the trees you cut
        down, you arrange them at the site as best you can. so- from
        observation i had noticed that, however many complaints we had about
        ailanthus we had to admit that the tree enriched and built up the soil
        very well, the wood being soft, light and porous. i decided to take my
        big and small hand cutters and cut off the smaller branches and leaves
        into very short pieces, around 6 to 10 inches or so, and this sounds
        crazy, to layer the entire ground area with these (the ground was
        completely trampled by this time from cutting down the trees, so you
        could say it was pretty much bare of vegetation). my husband used his
        little chain saw to cut the trunks into logs which we then lined up
        along the property line. i didn't want a fence because i needed to be
        able to get to the seedlings and suckers on the other side so as to
        prevent them from "jumping the line" over onto our side. then we piled
        up the bigger branches and smaller trunks, which we left long into
        what we call "wildlife hideaways"; cover and nesting for small animals.

        we let this all mellow for a year. i threw seeds into it. mustards,
        radishes and turnips grew, along with onions and amaranths. clovers,
        alfalfa , vetch, wild strawberry, violet ,rye, and other grasses grew
        up through the crisscrossed mat of sticks, began to fill in and spread

        i am practicing what fukuoka-san calls "weed utility". the cut wood
        pieces take out nitrogen from the soil, so- i let the ailanthia
        seedlings and suckers grow for about a week, then pluck these and
        layer them onto the wood pieces where they dry out and where there is
        no vegetation. this sounds weird, but it actually works. the green
        material rots down into the wood layer and keeps moisture, helping
        the wood to rot. the green stuff rots quickly and the wood slowly, so
        you have to redo the top layer more often. but the ground cover that
        grows up through this is short, thick, healthy and sweet. i guess
        these plants would still grow if i hadn't put the layer of wood
        pieces, but then i wouldn't have had the wood layer there to rot,
        mulch and build soil. the wood seems to have a sort of sterilizing
        effect which gave things a new start.

        the raspberry, wineberry and blackberry began growing like crazy !
        they love it. the poke, which the birds plant, love it and form
        groups, then when they and the other herbs grow tall, they become
        nurse-plants to native tree seedlings, which are coming up like mad.2
        types of oak, redbud, honey locust, black walnut, persimmon, basswood,
        a type of laurel, mimosa, sassafras- i dug one hole and planted a
        magnolia, which is my most beautiful tree. the wild cherry grows too
        big and tall for the space, and it's kind of invasive, it's limbs
        curving around the other trees to get the most light, so i cut them
        down too and when the suckers grew back from the root i kept the tips
        cut so that it stays bushy. the deer like to munch the tips too. i
        don't know how that will work out, but i'm watching. i left one wild
        cherry to grow as it pleased. the birds love the berries.

        i just wanted to show that i know my tendency to be too fundamentalist
        when it comes to nature...i need to work on my balance. integrating
        humans with nature is important; and as farmers, we can't just let
        one species dominate the others; fukuoka said somewhere that it's not
        wise to kill a species but that it is acceptable to cut back and
        control them if they become too vigorous to the detriment of others.
        with that i'll end this. cheers- robin, aka witchessocks

        A hearty laugh gives one a dry cleaning, while a good cry is a wet wash.

        -- Puzant Kevork Thomajan

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      • Dieter Brand
        Sergio, I don t mind preachers as long as they respect the believes and preferences of other people. With my initial post in this thread I merely tried to
        Message 3 of 16 , Jul 17, 2007
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          I don't mind preachers as long as they respect the believes and
          preferences of other people.

          With my initial post in this thread I merely tried to point out that
          discussion in this farming group had been completely hijacked
          by the religiously minded to the detriment of any practical
          discussion regarding farming. If even a thread entitled "something
          practical" is turned into a religious debate after only two
          messages then its good by to carrots and cabbages.

          It seems that most members that gave substance to the discussion
          regarding the practical issues involved in adapting natural farming
          to different climatic conditions have long gone to other places.
          Perhaps this is just as well, even though I would regret it if this
          were to spell an end to all attempts at implementing natural
          farming, which like all farming is an eminently practical business.

          I do know the Philippines and love the country and its people. In
          fact I was in Manila during the Pope's visit there and know something
          about the role of the catholic church in the country. I almost
          ended up in a farming venture on one of the islands, but property
          rights for foreigners are a little tricky. That is why we finally settled
          in Portugal, also a very catholic country (just like Poland, also starts
          with a P, only joking).

          Dieter Band

          Fussy? Opinionated? Impossible to please? Perfect. Join Yahoo!'s user panel and lay it on us.

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