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Re : Re : [fukuoka_farming] Re:the need for guidance

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  • chris opler
    Hello All, As promised (threatened), here is a link to a good introductory article to peak oil: http://www.theoildrum.com/node/2693 The increased crop yields
    Message 1 of 1 , Jun 27, 2007
      Hello All, As promised (threatened), here is a link to a good introductory article to peak oil:

      http://www.theoildrum.com/node/2693

      The increased crop yields provided by the green revolution where fueled at least in part by oil-derived fertilizers and oil-driven mechanization. The inevitable and permanent decline in the oil supply will undermine the economics of industrial agriculture in its current form.

      As we have seen, a Natural approach to farming is competitive in terms of yields and wins hands down in terms of food security and sustainability.

      Best regards,

      Chris

      ----- Message d'origine ----
      De : chris opler <chrisopler@...>
      À : fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com
      Envoyé le : Lundi, 25 Juin 2007, 13h19mn 13s
      Objet : Re : [fukuoka_farming] Re:the need for guidance













      Dear Jamie,



      I very much support the idea of building a Natural Farming community. The 'real'-ity of the community would be of enormous pedagogic and spiritual value.



      I plan on fulfilling my promise to visit you as soon as possible. I am in the midst of moving house (4 km from where I live) and will contact you when the move is complete.



      In the meantime, I am more concerned by the day by what I see as an impending food crisis that effect us all, but in particular the world's poor. As you may be aware, global oil production has been in decline since 2005. To make up for the declines, more and more of the global production of cereals is being diverted from feeding people to feeding our machines. As oil production continues to decline, we will even more pressure on our food stocks.



      Please read:



      http://www.energybu lletin.net/ 31263.html

      http://www.tennesse an.com/apps/ pbcs.dll/ article?AID= /20070623/ BUSINESS01/ 706230320



      Further, there is a concensus growing among energy experts, that this decline in oil production is permanent. I will find a good summary article. In the meantime, please read:



      http://www.theoildr um.com



      For some, this information may seem off-topic. I think not. The machine that has brought us to this precipice could be seen as the opposite of do-nothing. The only logic behind the do in the industrial world, is the generation of profit.



      So my main interest at this point is wondering if and how Natural Farming and its core idea of do-nothing is applicable to the crisis I have outlined.



      Best wishes to all,



      Chris



      ----- Message d'origine ----

      De : Jamie Nicol <souscayrous@ gmail.com>

      À : fukuoka_farming@ yahoogroups. com

      Envoyé le : Vendredi, 22 Juin 2007, 21h28mn 34s

      Objet : Re: [fukuoka_farming] Re:the need for guidance



      Dear All, I think many of us are concerned by the words we expend on this



      subject, knowing full well that we can never express what we mean. I agree



      with most of what has been expressed, even more with the way it's been



      expressed.



      I have an alternative I'd like to propose: that we all get together and



      real-ise these words. Chris and I are in the South of France, Stephane is



      off scouting in Portugal for his own place (though not before we had the



      chance to meet the other day) and we might even persuade Bart that such a



      community might be possible in Europe.



      Is this a possibility, of course!. Is it likely? No. But there is a meeting



      at Panos' new farm in Greece later this year (September I think) when



      perhaps such a proposal might draw others interested too.



      If there's any interest it might be possible to create another group to



      discuss the possibilities.



      I'm very interested in meeting like minded people (and yes, Jean-Claude, we



      did wonder about joining your interesting venture on Salt Spring Island!) to



      explore this possibility.



      Jamie



      Souscayrous



      On 6/20/07, steph_willems <steph_willems@ yahoo.fr> wrote:



      >



      > Dear Jamie and Bart,



      >



      > My lack of experience in natural farming makes me wonder whether I should



      > comment at



      > all. However, this discussion lies at the heart of my interest in NF. For



      > many years, I have



      > been interested both in "ecology" and in "spirituality" . I was, however,



      > surprised to see that



      > so few spiritual leaders, and particularly buddhist ones, are truly



      > interested in ecology (so



      > as to put it as the heart of their teachings). Real integration between



      > ecology and



      > spirituality only seems to exist in so-called "primordial" traditions. For



      > them, it seems



      > actually to be one and the same.



      > Maybe a simplistic way to explain this is that in the buddhist tradition



      > in particular, an



      > interest in ecology might hide an "attachment" to the world of



      > manifestation, to its survival



      > (as well as to our own survival), as if the "external world" was not as



      > important as the life



      > of the mind. But i think this very idea is still very dualistic.



      > I realise that my interest in NF is that indeed nature itself is a path



      > (or part of the path) to



      > enlightenment. Nature is a teacher. For thousands of years, spiritual



      > traditions have taken



      > nature for granted, so it may well be that nature had always been



      > considered as a teacher,



      > alongside official "masters" and gurus, but that was not really mentioned



      > (except in Zen



      > haikus, perhaps). Now, if nature is destroyed, it cannot be a teacher



      > anymore. This is



      > where I see the link between the need to protect nature and spirituality.



      > From a spiritual



      > point of view, the main reason for protecting nature may not be the



      > survival of our



      > species, but the need for an environment that can help reach enlightenment



      > or self-



      > realisation.



      > The link to nature indeed helps us to connect to a "more than human"



      > dimension of life, it



      > connects us to the mystery, it is a doorway to God, or whatever other word



      > our limited



      > human language creates. The biggest danger to spirituality is living in a



      > human-only



      > world, even if it is in a buddhist monastery. Wanting to protect nature is



      > therefore a sign



      > of "attachment" , but a healthy desire, just as looking for a spiritual



      > master (and



      > contributing to the conservation of spiritual traditions) is also healthy.



      >



      > The most difficult question perhaps is, however, whether nature can become



      > our only



      > teacher, as it may be the case for Fukuoka himself. Maybe this is not



      > possible for



      > everyone, maybe most people will also need to follow the path of a "human"



      > teacher. But



      > my point is that following the path of a spiritual master may also not be



      > sufficient if nature



      > all around us is destroyed.



      > Now I completely agree that NF is not about any technique, like seedballs,



      > and that in our



      > efforts to "green deserts", we do not forget the ultimate goal, that is



      > our own liberation.



      > This is related to "no-doing". For me, no-doing is not about doing nothing



      > in the



      > "external" world anyway. No-doing is an inner attitude. One can be active



      > in the world, but



      > be still inside. It may simply be that NF techniques, by the very fact



      > that they "let nature



      > be", are more "compatible with" (without being "a recipe to") this inner



      > stillness that is the



      > goal of spirituality.



      >



      > Stéphane (looking for a place to practice NF)



      >



      >



      > --- In fukuoka_farming@ yahoogroups. com <fukuoka_farming% 40yahoogroups. com>,



      > "Jamie Nicol" <souscayrous@ ...> wrote:



      > >



      > > Dear Bart, I would like to share JSENT's appreciation of your post, you



      > make



      > > many insightful points.



      > >



      > > I'd like to use some of the things you wrote to suggest my own



      > understanding



      > > regarding Fukuoka, clearly this is not to suggest right or wrong but to



      > > further the discussion of Fukuoka's work on this list.



      > >



      > > You write: " I for one cannot imagine anyone practicing natural farming



      > > without being (at least somewhat) awakened to the moment. And I can



      > hardly



      > > imagine anyone awakening to the moment without spiritual guidance from a



      > > true, living master, and without relentless practice. There are



      > exceptions,



      > > and maybe Fukuoka is one of them, but that is of little importance. What



      > is



      > > of importance is that Fukuoka, with all respect due to him, only



      > describes



      > > the experience without proposing a path - by path I mean a daily



      > practice of



      > > mindfulness "exercices". "



      > >



      > > In reply to this I'd like to make a bold statement: NF is enlightenment!



      > >



      > > Now let me go back a bit:- I agree that no one can practice NF who is



      > not



      > > enlightened because NF is not about the growing of plants but the



      > > cultivation of human being. NF is not about agriculture (conventional,



      > > organic or other) at all. NF is not about any 'thing', as Fukuoka makes



      > > clear it is about no 'thing', which was his life changing experience at



      > the



      > > age of 25. It is no practice at all, a methodless method. It is the



      > > philosophy of no-philosophy, it is 'do-nothing' .



      > >



      > > Therefore, to practice NF is to already have experienced the felt



      > intensity



      > > of no-thingness which releases us into a world where we recognise that



      > we



      > > are already all that we can be and there is really no-thing that we have



      > to



      > > do.



      > >



      > > Let me put it another way: to seek spiritual guidance or to begin the



      > > practice of NF is possible only to those who are already awakened.



      > Whether



      > > we practice a gurus method of mindfulness or the method of NF both



      > practices



      > > are themselves enlightenment if we make them our own. A teacher is can



      > not



      > > be a teacher to those who cannot hear and it is only the ability to



      > listen



      > > (hearken), to open ourselves to what is (Tathata), that can be



      > considered



      > > enlightenment - and we must already have some small part of this to even



      > > begin the search for a master.



      > >



      > > Fukuoka does describe a path to follow and this path is NF itself. It is



      > > everchanging, as Fukuoka's life attests. A simple life lived close to



      > the



      > > soil might seem a small life, but within it the great way can be seen.



      > There



      > > is always the danger in monasteries and meditation that we only make



      > > concrete our modern separation of the human and natural worlds rather



      > than



      > > remembering that the earth is one.



      > >



      > > You write: " I consider that only walking on this path, one can cast



      > > seedballs. I think that otherwise, one just imagines being casting



      > > seedballs, while in reality one is using them to fill one's future (and



      > > therefore imaginary) stomach, or other people's future (and therefore



      > > imaginary) stomachs, or chasing after some other figment of imagination



      > (a



      > > better planet, for instance). And while this seedball-casting is a means



      > for



      > > obtaining a goal, however noble this goal may seem, I think it has



      > nothing



      > > to do with not-doing or natural farming."



      > >



      > > With this I could not agree more. NF is not seedballs, it can be reduced



      > to



      > > no single technique, indeed, it can be reduced to no-technique at all!



      > NF is



      > > nothing other than the understanding of what to do, or perhaps more



      > > importantly in our busy culture, what not to do. There is no-thing that



      > must



      > > be done, including seedballing. All efforts after finding a way to feed



      > the



      > > world, revegetate deserts etc, however noble, as you say, will always



      > lose



      > > the now which is the only moment in which we can realise NF.



      > >



      > > The grass and the trees (things) may be God as Fukuoka says, but we must



      > not



      > > forget that beyond the grass and the trees there is no-thing of which we



      > can



      > > say nothing.



      > >



      > > Jamie



      > > Souscayrous



      > >



      > > On 6/15/07, JSENT <wegrow4@... > wrote:



      > > >



      > > > Thanks Bart, for sharing your thoughts. I appreciate them.



      > > >



      > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



      > > >



      > > >



      > > >



      > >



      > >



      > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



      > >



      >



      >



      >



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